Author Topic: Keeping the beater alive  (Read 3935 times)

80Westy

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Keeping the beater alive
« on: November 22, 2014, 05:37:47 PM »
I'm pretty excited to share that I just finished changing the timing belt, tensioner, and water pump on my 2001 Neon.  It has taken since the first week of July (2014) until today.  The alternator seized up literally as the car was being parked to start the job, so that part had to also be replaced.  You would think changing an alternator to be a fairly painless job, but not this one.  The lower pivot bolt broke when trying to loosen it.  You would then expect the remaing half bolt and nut to just fall out the other end, right?  NO.  Tried pounding it out with a rod from the broken end.  No go.  Tried torching the nut with my cheap propane torch.  Nothing happened, still wouldn't pound out.  At that point, the internet came to the rescue for the first of many times.  Ever heard of a nut splitter?  You have?  Well, I hadn't.  $20 worth of Amazon points later, a beautiful two piece set showed up at my door.  The nut splitter looks like an eyebolt, but the shaft is hollow and has a threaded rod with a cutting wedge at the end.  You place the open eye over the nut and tighten the tool's bolt to drive the wedge into the side of the nut to split it open.  After about hour of horsing around with the splitter and torch, the nut/ half bolt finally came free.  Not from each other, but from the back ear of the alternator which has a steel sleeve that welded itself to the nut.

Other time-consuming things I learned, in case any MMMers will be doing this repair:
- Advance Auto's harmonic balancer puller slips off the Neon.  Use Autozone's pulled specifically designed for Chryslers
- Neither Advance or Autozone's tools to install the pulley will work on a Neon.  Buy a 200 mm fully threaded M12x1.75 10.9 bolt (Fastenal.com) and a tall (36 mm) nut will do it.  Thread the bolt fully into the crankshaft and the tighten the nut to force on the pulley.  I used the thrust bearing from the rented install kits but the washer stack slipped elsewhere, so the thrust bearing didn't do anything.  Use lots of oil.
- Some years of Neons use hydraulic tensioners (my 2001 did) which are expensive, with belt/tensioner/water pump kits more than $450.  You *should* replace all 3 when doing this job or you risk pump failure and/or tensioner failure later on, both of which can destroy the belt and then the valves hit pistons and you need a new motor (this result is why timing belts must be replaced on the manufacturer's timetable).  Anyway, internet tells me that a mechanical tensioner can be used in place of a hydraulic as all other parts were unchanged for all Neons.  I used a 2004 kit and all is well, saved over $300 on the kit.  One caveat - you must cut a hole in the rear timing belt cover to clear the body of the mechanical tensioner if your Neon was built with hydraulic.  Use a 1 1/2" wood boring bit for this.

I encourage my fellow MMMers to tacked these "heavy" repairs.  If I can do it, anyone can.  Just take your time and research extensively.  If you don't finish quickly, you still have a bike for transpotation, right?  Not to imply that I rode to work for the last 4.5 months.

A good link with instructions:
 http://chronoscender.freeservers.com/neontimingbelt/timingbelt.html

Good luck!
 




Exflyboy

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Re: Keeping the beater alive
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2014, 09:29:29 PM »
Good for you man,

As something of a Neon enthusiast I was saying to myself as I was reading..

"I hope he used a mechanical tensioner".. and I hope he cut the hole in the rear cover..:) Actually on the rear cover, even though you cut the hole it is still easy to get the cover trapped under the mech tensioner bracket. The thing to do is when you have the tensioner bolted down, loosen the rear cover bolts and make sure you can wiggle the rear cover around. If it won't move then obviously it is trapped under the tensioner bracket.

On the lower pulley you can usually tap them on far enough so that you can then use the pulley bolt... When I use my puller on the dampener I have to use an impact wrench on the puller to get it off..:)

On the alternator you can rebuild them yourself for a fraction of the cost.. at least you can if the regulator is still working.. the front bearing costs about 7 bucks from a bearing supplier and new brushes are $2 each from Romaine electric in Portland (and yes they mail order).

I did a full engine and transmission rebuild on a 1999 DOHC last year.. lovely little car.

One day your wiring harness on the engine will likely melt some wires... a morning on the kitchen table with a soldering iron will take car of this..:)

Also check out the website "www.Neons.org".. a fantastic forum.

You will even find a small mod to stop a bearing spinning in the 1st gen manual transmission during the rebuild.. I wrote it..:)

Well done!

Frank

Exflyboy

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Re: Keeping the beater alive
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2014, 09:35:27 PM »
After the rubuild (and repainted the front half of the car..:)..)

Frank

Greg

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Re: Keeping the beater alive
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2014, 09:53:23 PM »
Nice read on a tricky repair.  Your moniker makes me wonder if you have a VW.  I sometimes laugh at terms like "beater" because my newest rig is my '88 Vanagon.  It's all relative.

80Westy

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Re: Keeping the beater alive
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2014, 09:48:58 AM »
Exflyboy,  Thanks for your comments and advice.  Great job on the 2 door rebuild, it looks better than new!  Do you have a lift, engine hoist, etc?  I was too scared to use the pulley bolt to force it on, being afraid the threads on the crank could strip.  As it was, it went on more easily than I was expecting.  I did check the tensioner to rear cover hole alignment before installing, and there was more than enough gap to prevent pinching.  And good to know about the alternator rebuild.  It probably failed a bearing.  Have you rebuilt a starter before?  My 1980 Vanagon needed a new one 3 years ago and I kept the core with delusions of rebuilding it for a spare, but it is just getting dusty.

Greg, yes, I have a Vanagon, 1980 Westy.  I lived in Portland from 98-05 and was inspired by the multitudes.  You were probably one of them.  You said that your 88 is your newest car?  Has it been a struggle to keep her running?    Mine has been pretty reliable as a summer fun and camping car, but it has also been daily driver while the Neon was torn apart.  It gets a lot of strange looks and stoner comments as Vanagons are extremely rare around here.  Time for her to go in the garage until spring.  She is more of a princess than a beater.

Exflyboy

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Re: Keeping the beater alive
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2014, 03:11:05 PM »
Do I have an engine hoist?

Oh yeah.. see attached..:)

Never done a starter but they will be very similar, might have to flatten the commutator on a lathe if its really bad.. probably just needs the segments undercut a little though. Clean the solenoid contactors and replace bearings and brushes.

Brushes from Romaine electric as well.

Frank

Greg

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Re: Keeping the beater alive
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2014, 06:54:39 PM »
Greg, yes, I have a Vanagon, 1980 Westy.  I lived in Portland from 98-05 and was inspired by the multitudes.  You were probably one of them.  You said that your 88 is your newest car?  Has it been a struggle to keep her running?    Mine has been pretty reliable as a summer fun and camping car, but it has also been daily driver while the Neon was torn apart.  It gets a lot of strange looks and stoner comments as Vanagons are extremely rare around here.  Time for her to go in the garage until spring.  She is more of a princess than a beater.

I do my own work, so not too hard to keep it alive.  I use it daily for work (contractor) and try to take good care of it.  Most recent problem was last year when it started missing and stalling.  Eventually I found that the wiring to the hall effect sensor in the dizzy was bad, and it damaged the ECU.  I was able to fix the wiring and do other unnecessary dizzy work like a new hall sensor, only to find eventually that the ECU was bad.  Other than that I love it.  So where are you now?

An '80 is air-cooled (really oil-cooled), my first Vanagon was an '80.  The AFC stuff is getting harder to find, so take care of it.  At least the injection system is easy to understand, L-Jet is lovely (used on Fiats as well).

paddedhat

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Re: Keeping the beater alive
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2014, 05:23:38 PM »
Good job on keeping the Neons rolling. My kid bought an UGLY purple Expresso edition for $900 about seven years back. He then proceeded (as a sixteen year old holligan) to beat the living shit out of the car for the next year. There were shockingly few repairs, the biggest being a new oil pan after he decided to do a bit of four-wheeling, and a stream of front tires. The thing was tough as a rock, dirt cheap and easy to fix. His next ride was a turbo Passat. Holy shit on toast, talk about a completely different experience. That car was possibly the biggest POS on the planet, and close to impossible to work on without getting the urge to toss a hammer at it. 

Exflyboy

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Re: Keeping the beater alive
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2014, 11:05:57 PM »
I am seriously in love with neons

Well obviously...:)

Frank