Help Dealing with my Family who is a black-hole for Cash

[sirspiffy]

Hey Moustachioed folk,

So My dad's an Orthodontist.  He's gone from about $300k/year to $150k, so money is tight.  Dad's 62 and he's wearing his body down and working 80 hour weeks. 
My Step-Mother is about to be laid off, she's a dentist at a group she was working 2 days a week and doesn't want to do dental work anymore.  The owner's son just graduated Dental School and is coming in a few months to replace her.  She was making ~$30k/year.  Twice over the last 8 years she's run up her credit debt to $30k.  Dad payed it off both times.  Its been run up again. 

We've got a garage and several closets full of crap she's bought. 

I've got 3 younger sister's (14,16, 23) who my dad is paying for school.  My grandmother's Alzheimer's is progressing and its taking its toll on my dad emotionally.  Financially, her care is a costly nightmare. 

We've got 2 rental properties, a vacation property, my Grandmother's house, a timeshare, 3 cars and a 28 ft boat that's never used.  (all paid for so we've, only got fees maintenance and taxes)

Even at these ridiculous income levels my dad say's we've got maybe 3 months wealth if he stopped working. 

Dad doesn't think he has time to stop working to clean up the house and my step-mom spends all her time doting on my sisters so they're "always too busy."  I have a feeling its just various forms of laziness. 

I can't get my step mom to track her spending, she's afraid of computer's and doesn't use pen and paper. 
My dad says he doesn't have goals beyond survival and he has no exit strategy for his practice beyond selling when he's become a liability. 

I want to help.  I have no idea how to change their behaviors.  I think they're spinning their wheels trying to save pennies on groceries rather than changing their big spending habits. 

How can I motivate them to get off their butts and take stock their financial lives?  Step mom has vague issues with privacy online?

How can I get them to clean out the garage and sell some junk to build some capital?  Dad had the excuse that its not all his stuff? 

-SirSpiffy

[velocistar237]

This might be a good situation for a fee-only financial planner. Maybe the next time they express worry, you can suggest it.

[beav80]

I don't envy this situation at all.  By the looks of your sibling's ages you're still in your twenties.  I've found that little things rub off on the people around me.  You can start with yourself, your financial situation, and your spending habits.  If they're consistently good then it will show in the way you act in general and around money situations.

I think helping your family will depend on them being open to change, beyond that just be solid and supportive and try not to take part in the things that you think are ridiculous.  It would be hard to say that you think they should get rid of their boat if you and friend's use it to party.

If you can retire before them they'll probably have a WTF moment.

Hopefully, you can get some more useful advice from others here.  A financial planner could be a good first step.

[AJ]

Unfortunately, the reality is that as much as you may want to help, you can't control or change other people. What you are feeling is *very* similar to what the family of an addict feels. That may sound dramatic, but I can tell you I've been there (both with real addicts and with bad-with-money family) and it is very common to feel what you are feeling. You see these people that you love destroying their own lives and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

It won't get easier, and you can't fix it. But I can give you this advice:

1. You can't keep a drunk from drinking. Meaning: even if you hide the booze they will find more elsewhere and keep it secret better. Even if you get them to track their spending, they will probably do some on the sly that they don't tell you about.

2. Don't give a drunk a drink. Make it clear that if they are going to continue down their current path that you will not be available for financial support when they hit rock bottom.

I know it sucks to watch your dad in his position. But he is a grown man, and he can stand up to his wife if he wants to. Clearly, he finds the status quo more palatable.

The best you can do is lead by example, be available for emotional support, and define very clear boundaries to protect yourself and your family from spill-over.

[tooqk4u22]

You can talk to them, provide guidance and advice, direct them to this site, encourage change and so on.....but the reality is there is little you can do unless first they admit there is a problem and second they willingly want to change on their own - no different than any other addiction. 

And if your dad has five people (wife, 3 sisters, mother) fighting him on the matter either figuratively or literally it will be all that much harder. 

Discuss it openly but don't stress too much about it....I have similar worries about some family members but I have communicated for the record that I will not pay for their issues in the future.   Seems heartless but I have worked and been disciplined to be where I am at, and still need to do that for some time, so I won't throw it away on others financial mistakes.

[tooqk4u22]

Wow AJ - your post went in before mine but it looks like yours was composed better :) 

[MsSindy]

This is absolutely a tough position - just know that you are not responsible for your parent's finances, choices, or happiness.  It is very hard to watch someone you care a great deal about spiral downward - I watched it happen to my own Mom - owned a business, but then her health deteriorated.  However, she was still trying to live like she had money.  You can only 'have conversations' to let them talk through things and help them with suggestions - don't push them; I'm sure there is also a lot of pride and ego involved. 

It sounds like they need some basic steps first, so something less "in your face" than MMM might be good for them.  Dave Ramsey comes to mind, because it's palatable for the average person (though not nearly as badass, but you have to start somewhere).

The one positive thing you can do now is to talk to your siblings about money - not about your dad/Step-mom's situation, but about how to handle money.  Let them know that there are alternatives.

Good luck, hope things improve

[josephpg]

Im glad i read this, being in a similar situation. One thing I can say is its not your fault, you didnt make their choices. you need to take care of yourself, starting now, so that if they crash and burn you dont catch fire.

[Use it up, wear it out...]

Unfortunately, the reality is that as much as you may want to help, you can't control or change other people.

...

It won't get easier, and you can't fix it.

+1 (or +2, even!)

[SJS]

So sorry you are having to be a part of this - I can see you are worried about the younger siblings.  The others are right - you can't control the situation - they are grown adults and will crash and burn if they continue down this road.  What you CAN do is to LEARN from their mistakes.  You can also teach the younger siblings about money - about how they may be able to earn some (petsitting, babysitting, mowing lawns, etc.), saving money, etc.  You can NEVER teach kids enough about SMART money management - and  you can never start too young.  So there is hope for you and the siblings - good luck! 

[$_gone_amok]

How is your father's relationship with your mother in law? I suspect her shopping problems come from a deeper issue within their marriage relationship. Are they communicating openly about money? Are they able to enjoy each other's company without shopping and spending money?

[Rev]

Hey, I'm a younger guy too, and my mom is terrible with money. My solution has been similar to what AJ up above me has posted, with an essential addition. None of us would be willing to let our parents starve (At least I hope!) so any place I end up buying will have a mother in law apartment/cottage. I realize this is a longer term solution, but it is an income stream if you use it for others, without the privacy invasion of having people IN your house. If you do need it to house your family, it is a good way to provide for them without giving them access to liquid funds.

[It Figures]

I am in a similar situation watching the way my family has spent money ever since my father died.  My mother has gone though so much savings that she took out a line of credit on the house when my brother went to university.  She went from owning her $450,000 house outright to now having a $200,000 mortgage on it!!!!!!  My brother asks for money and she keeps dishing it out.  It's pathetic on both their parts.  I've given up lecturing, yelling, arguing, etc because they refuse to listen.  I felt guilty at first that I gave up, but I agree with others that you can't control them, only yourself.  The best thing is to be a good example of how to live a fulfilling yet frugal and responsible life.