Got Fired! (not FIRE'd, fired)

[tanzee]

Hey Folks

I've been a pretty avid MMM reader for quite a while now and I wanted to share an experience that has been unexpectedly awesome so far. 

I was fired last week from my job working for an electrician.  I brought up the possibility of a worker's comp claim due to possible carpal tunnel syndrome.  I was worried about numbness in my fingers and I gave him a friendly heads up about what was going on in case a worker's compensation claim wound up being necessary.  My employer fired me later that day, citing my body's inability to handle the workload as a reason for my termination.  To the best of my understanding, this is illegal in North Carolina (and probably everywhere else in the US).  So I filed a complaint with the North Carolina Department of Labor under the Retaliatory Employment Descrimination Act.  I looked into pursuing a federal complaint through the EEOC, but found that the company is likely too small to qualify for that type of thing (under 15 employees). 

All of that has been really fascinating and enlightening as I have had the opportunity to explore federal and state employment law.  I share all of that in case there are any forum members who have insight or advice into my situation.  But, I digress. 

The part of all this that I am really excited about, is the opportunity to give early retirement a dress rehearsal, so to speak.  I have no obligations, other than to apply for jobs and file my weekly unemployment paperwork.  It won't last forever.  I have stayed busy looking for a new job and completing projects that had lingered on my to-do list.  But it has been such a great opportunity to learn.  I could easily have gone into a netflix coma and gotten depressed, but I have grabbed life by the damn horns and I feel fantastic. 

It has also highlighted how strong my frugality muscles have become.  I'm only slightly anxious about surviving on $600 per month of unemployment until I find a job.  I've got skills to put to use to earn a little on the side and I've got items with value that I can sell off.  Life is good, folks.  Thank you for listening. 

[okits]

You have a great attitude, I hope your complaint gets resolved quickly and without too much fuss.

The discrimination that happened to you sucks.  Congratulations on standing up for yourself.

Update us on how ER dress rehearsal goes!

[tanzee]

Thank you, okits.  I'll definitely add some updates as things develop. 

I've got to thank the MMM community for inspiration in maintaining positivity through this.  I could easily get caught up in some perceived wrong that someone else has put on me.  But that won't get me anywhere.  That's one of the greatest lessons I've taken from mustachianism.  This is a fantastic opportunity for me to learn and move forward.  I have more time to put towards my job search and that will hopefully increase my odds of finding a good situation for me.  In many ways, this is the best thing that could have happened. 

[Johnez]

Wow, what a great attitude to have!

I hope you really take it to those guys who fired you. Frankly  I'm surprised they didn't come up with some better excuse. Whatever happens looks like you got all the time in the world to strategize!

[Bracken_Joy]

Good on you for finding the silver lining! Sorry to hear about what happened, though. Wishing you the best and look forward to your updates/insights!

[tanzee]

You know, I'm pretty surprised myself.  I've got the text message to prove it should my case progress, though.  The text  cites a disagreement with another co-worker from two months ago (that had been resolved, to the best of my knowledge) and that my body "can't handle the workload."  He made my case for me.  He has a history of fast and loose business practices.  NC is an "at will" state, meaning he can fire me for pretty much anything.  Bringing up worker's compensation is not one of those things.  It's an action that is specifically protected under the law. 

[Axecleaver]

Retaliation can be tough to prove, especially in a pro-business state like NC. And you have the burden of proof. Worker's comp insurance is really expensive for employers, and their rates are based on claims. This has an outsized impact on small businesses, one claim can raise rates substantially. So, you would have cost him some money if you had filed a claim. Same thing for unemployment claims. While that makes logical sense, it doesn't prove retaliation. Even if you do have a valid retaliation claim, getting paid for it is entirely different from getting a judgment in your favor. Small businesses are easy to fold up and reform.

Best bet is to get on with your life while you look for a new job. Definitely do not tell new employers that you got fired for making a worker's comp claim. Good luck!

[tanzee]

Thanks for the info, Axecleaver.  What exactly do you mean about small businesses being easy to fold up and reform?  Also, what constitutes proof of retaliation in your experience? 

I do agree that it is best to move on.  My hope is just to file the complaint in it's entirety and go on my merry way.  Maybe down the line I'll get a pleasant surprise and find that it was successful.  Maybe not. 

[Axecleaver]

In the service industry - where you're trading your time for money - the business doesn't own a lot of assets, like buildings and inventory. The value is largely in the employees who perform the work. So on Friday he could shut down the business and reform it on Monday with new contracts, re-hiring the employees he wants to work with him, and (with some caveats) avoid any kind of legal judgment. If the business is an LLC this is especially easy to do.

I have seen lots of retaliation claims in business but have never seen one succeed. I even got to defend against one during one of my first management posts. I think you have exactly the right attitude for this - file the claim, and go about your business. Proof of retaliation is a written statement from your employer that you were fired because of your "protected activity" (ie filing the worker's comp claim). That obviously doesn't happen very often. If that doesn't exist, then what you have is circumstantial evidence. This can be refuted. To avoid a retaliation claim, an employer only needs to prove he fired you for a valid reason. If you told him you couldn't perform the work anymore, this is adequate reason to dismiss you.

[tanzee]

Hmm, interesting.  I definitely did not tell him I couldn't perform the work.  I told him I was concerned I may be developing symptoms of carpal tunnel, and that I wanted to visit a doctor to check.  He specifically asked me not to use worker's compensation.  Then later in the day he sent me a text message telling me I no longer had a position and cited the two issues that I mentioned up-thread.  According to my understanding of the local laws, it seems like a pretty solid case, though clearly I have my own biases to consider. 

In my reading, I have repeatedly come across the notion that the timing of the event is really important to the case.  Like, if 6 months pass between the event and the individual getting fired, it's tougher to claim that the specific event provoked the employer to fire the person.  Whereas, when it occurs on the same day, you can make the assumption that they influenced one another. 

In another life, I would have been a lawyer.  This stuff fascinates me. 

[jedichikin]

Him firing you just drove up the value of your eventual settlement, the easy way will be to go get an attorney but that will cost you 20+% of your eventual settlement.

The harder way is to handle yourself, and call th WC commission yourself and file for medical benefits as well as temporary total disability.

I think you have a real case of retaliatory discharge as well as WC, but I would consult a NC plaintiffs attorney. Good luck!

[tanzee]

Thanks for your thoughts, jedichikin.  You seem pretty knowledgeable on the topic and you also seem pretty optimistic about my chances here.  What is your experience with these matters? 

[Gumbo1978]

In NC, the WC Insurer would send you to a MD and address causation with the MD.  The MD would decide whether your job duties caused the carpal tunnel.  If they did, you'd be paid temporary total benefits for the period you are written out of work or put on light duty (if that occurs).  The insurance company would pay your medical.  If you have a permanency rating at the end, the insurance company would settle your claim (probably both indemnity and medical).

Carpal tunnel can be caused by a number of factors.  Repetitive motion is one.  Obesity/diabetes/pregnancy/hypertension/etc are other factors.  Carpal tunnel is caused by a nerve in the wrist being compressed (so you can see how someone overweight (or pregnant) with thicker wrists would eventually compress the nerve.  So it is not necessarily a sure thing that you have a compensable accident.

It is absolutely wrong if your employer fired you solely for reporting an injury you felt was related to employment.  They should have filed a claim with their insurer and let the insurer investigate whether or not it was compensable (by providing a medical opinion).

[tanzee]

Thanks for the info and encouragement, Gumbo.  It seems like these types of complaints can be hard to win for the employee.  But I feel pretty well morally justified in the whole thing, regardless of how it all pans out.  I've also been feeling tons of gratitude towards all the lovely people in my life who have helped support me through it. 

[Eurotexan]

WC is extremely pro-worker. Not only did your employer make a bad moral decision, legally it could end up costing him. Serves him right. You should consult a WC attorney, at least to know your rights. I have a hard time seeing how you would lose (I am a risk manager so am on the other side of the coin but I know we would be sued if we did what your employer did, and rightly so!)

[tanzee]

Thank you TexasBrit.  He has definitely left me in a tough spot here.  My understanding is that his business practices have been pretty fast and loose for a long time.  I wasn't entirely surprised when I got the message from him, given stories I've heard about previous employees and their treatment.  I consulted a civil rights attorney who is a family friend.  He is the one who sent me in the direction of the Dept of Labor.  So I'm remaining optimistic about things working out in my favor in terms of my case, but I'm also trying to simultaneously move on.  Thanks for the support!

[Potterquilter]

Go to the NC workers compensation site and follow their instructions. In your case I would call, say you need medical treatment and ask them what to do.  In some states Physician documentation is crucial. You may need to visit you family MD to document the injury is work related, ask the workers comp board. In some states this is time sensitive.  Not following the rules can invalidate your claim.

[oneday]

tanzee, your attitude is inspiring. Best of luck to you with the claim, finding a job and all the frugal things you are practicing in the mean time.

[tanzee]

Quick update:  I got a new job making more money.  I am pumped!

[Josiecat]

Congratulations!!!

[Tyson]

Quick update:  I got a new job making more money.  I am pumped!

That's usually how it works - the old company pays you what you were worth when you started.  The new company pays you what you are worth now.

[Dicey]

What about the possible carpal tunnel syndrome?

[tanzee]

I did get diagnosed with carpal tunnel, but it's really mild at this point because I'm not doing that kind of work any more.  So it's really not an impediment to me performing the tasks of my new job.  Thanks for asking!