Author Topic: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro  (Read 8356 times)

LiveLean

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Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« on: September 12, 2019, 01:38:17 PM »
I replaced my MacBook Pro two weeks ago with a MacBook Air having used the Pro for 10 years. And I could have kept going with it but I wanted a lighter device to travel with. Not only that, I got $150 for the Pro. (Only repairs over the last decade were a new touchpad and upgraded memory.)

Before buying the Pro in 2009, I had not been an Apple guy, using only PCs starting in 1997. And I had never gotten more than three years out of a PC laptop from 1997--2009. Just garbage. My only regret is that I didn't go to Mac sooner. My wife has never known anything but Mac and had I listened to her earlier, we likely would have. bought AAPL earlier, too.

For all the talk of the iPhone and how it has changed the world, for better or for worse, the Mac laptops are grossly underrated.

I was pumped to buy a new MacBook Air for $959 at Costco. Last week Costco sent me a $100 cash card with a note saying they had reduced the price, having negotiated a better deal with Apple, and were passing along the savings. Gotta love Costco!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 01:40:04 PM by LiveLean »

SotI

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 01:56:54 PM »
Yeah, I can really relate. Same here (my McBook Pro is 9 years, still without any fail and going strong).
Most comfortable and stable computer I've ever had (everything else typically breaks within a 3-5 years range). Love the solid hardware.
It's been deffo worth its money! 

FamilyGuy

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 07:59:37 PM »
My MacBook Air is 5 years old. Solid and love it.

marty998

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2019, 12:48:12 AM »
Reluctantly I will give grudging respect to Apple on this. I don't like the ring fencing of the ecosystem which means nothing is compatible with it, but I've been getting daily use out of my MacBook Pro for over 8 years now and it still works a treat.

Not that style over substance should matter but it ages well fashion wise too. Definitely not embarrassed to pull it out in public, unlike the Del /HP ones which look ancient after a few years.

I think I'd still get a Pro instead of an Air next time though. I feel like I'd accidentally snap an Air in half one day, whereas a Pro just feels a bit more hardy.

FamilyGuy

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2019, 05:27:25 AM »

Not that style over substance should matter but it ages well fashion wise too.

This true. I don't care what others think I believe it will be with me for a very long time properly handled.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 06:08:57 AM »
Congrats OP, 10 years is a long life for a computer (especially a laptop).  Was the battery still alive at the end?

Most of the true MacHeads I know have actually lamented the steady reduction in quality of the hardware over time, as Macs shifted from a boutique product with custom in-house hardware into more of a commodity assembled with COTS-like parts.

Personally I've had great luck with most Apple products, especially Macbooks compared with Dell counterparts.  We've had Dell laptops from Inspirons to XPS's, and they've all had hardware failures in < 5 years, and prematurely failing batteries.  We've only decided to part with our old Macs when the hardware would not support the newer versions of the OS.

We've had a 1st generation iPad for 9+ years, and despite the OS being unsupported for a long time (can't install new apps, and many old apps no longer work), it still works great to stream Netflix or do some casual web browsing.  Battery shows almost no signs of degredation after almost a decade, which is stunning to me.

We've had an Airport Extreme router for about 10 years and it still works perfectly.

Our biggest disappointments with Apple are iPhones.  We've had one with the flashlight stuck permanently on, one where the off button no longer works, and a few issues with short battery life.

lizzzi

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 07:08:44 AM »
I'm still using my MacBook Air 11-inch from mid-2011. The battery life was never as much as advertised, and now it only lasts a couple hours on battery--so I just leave it plugged into the wall as use it on my desk as my main and only computer. I have Microsoft Office for Mac on it, and use Word for my writing. I've tried other writing programs, but am just as happy with good old Word. I have an iPhone 8, but don't use it for much of anything besides a phone. So when my contract is up this autumn, I'm thinking about  just going back to a flip phone. Not totally sure yet, but it seems too expensive for what I use it for.

rockeTree

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 12:05:24 PM »
Yeah, I just replaced my late 2008 Pro as well, not because it didn't work but because it was no longer supported and there were a couple of big security patches issued that didn't cover it. Added new memory once and may have replaced the battery at some point, not really sure - but never had significant troubles and used it pretty hard for several of those years.

geekette

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 12:44:25 PM »
. I have an iPhone 8, but don't use it for much of anything besides a phone. So when my contract is up this autumn, I'm thinking about  just going back to a flip phone. Not totally sure yet, but it seems too expensive for what I use it for.
You can get cheap plans for iPhones as well. I pay $60/year for my low end plan (Red Pocket, Verizon towers, 100minutes/100texts/500meg).

I just replaced my 2009 iMac with a new one. Sold the old one for $125. Someone came from over an hour away to pick it up.  Crazy. Not as impressive as a laptop, but if I hadnít really wanted the bigger screen and supported OS, I could have kept it going.

tmc93

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 02:58:06 PM »
I used to be an apple fanatic, (Macbook, ipad, iphone etc). But all my apples products from around 2014/2015 have been rubbish quality, lasting barely 2 years before something major going wrong with either keyboards, screens or battery. The service i've received from apple when trying to fix this has been abysmal so I sold them as is and slowly moved out of the ecosystem. I now have a samsung phone which I love, a surface computer and an android tablet. The operating systems are nowhere near as clean but the price, performance and build quality are miles better in my opinion. I hope you have a better run out of the new apple products than i did!

nereo

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 03:09:07 PM »
Mid 2012 MBP still going strong - expect this will go another few years. I hate the premium Apple charges for their products but IME they hold up far better than any other other brands I've used (and through work I've been forced to use a number of different laptops).  Replaced the batter last summer after 6+ years (not cheap, but not horrible) and now its humming along nicely.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 06:39:27 PM »
I'm typing this on a 2012 MacBook Air. It's getting near to being put down due to health problems, but it's served me well for 7 years. I got it refurbished from the US for an awesome price ($980 US = $940 AUD back then, plus shipping to Australia = $980, nil sales tax). After tax write-offs, its total price has been about A$700 or only $100 per year. Pretty nifty.

Unfortunately the equivalent 2019 model is now A$1700 (and still only has 128GB storage - what the FUCK), the Aussie dollar has dropped by 40%, I can no longer get tax-free overseas purchases and it's all just too much. I'm not gonna spend $1700 on a netbook. It's ridiculous.

And this is why our country is headed towards recession. Besides food, there's nothing worth buying. Everything's too expensive.

lizzzi

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2019, 05:24:29 AM »
. I have an iPhone 8, but don't use it for much of anything besides a phone. So when my contract is up this autumn, I'm thinking about  just going back to a flip phone. Not totally sure yet, but it seems too expensive for what I use it for.
You can get cheap plans for iPhones as well. I pay $60/year for my low end plan (Red Pocket, Verizon towers, 100minutes/100texts/500meg).


Thanks, I will check this out.

geekette

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2019, 08:31:36 AM »
. I have an iPhone 8, but don't use it for much of anything besides a phone. So when my contract is up this autumn, I'm thinking about  just going back to a flip phone. Not totally sure yet, but it seems too expensive for what I use it for.
You can get cheap plans for iPhones as well. I pay $60/year for my low end plan (Red Pocket, Verizon towers, 100minutes/100texts/500meg).

Thanks, I will check this out.

The yearly plans are only on eBay - no clue why!  I started with their month to month plan from redpocket.com until I was sure what would work for me, then bought the one year eBay plan.

They have plans for all 4 major companies from $10/month if you go month to month, or the $60/year for the cheapest yearly plan.

terran

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2019, 09:18:57 AM »
. I have an iPhone 8, but don't use it for much of anything besides a phone. So when my contract is up this autumn, I'm thinking about  just going back to a flip phone. Not totally sure yet, but it seems too expensive for what I use it for.
You can get cheap plans for iPhones as well. I pay $60/year for my low end plan (Red Pocket, Verizon towers, 100minutes/100texts/500meg).

Thanks, I will check this out.

The yearly plans are only on eBay - no clue why!  I started with their month to month plan from redpocket.com until I was sure what would work for me, then bought the one year eBay plan.

They have plans for all 4 major companies from $10/month if you go month to month, or the $60/year for the cheapest yearly plan.

You can find them from the website if you look under Annual Plans though. They just link you to ebay from there. I'm also happily on the $60 annual plan. It looks like I'll be able to renew on the website next year instead of buying through ebay again.

misshathaway

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2019, 03:23:24 AM »
My 2011 MacBook Pro still works. And Apple replaced the video card after recall and while they were at it replaced the DVD drive for free. I just got a MacBook Air for weight reasons but the MacBook Pro is a good backup computer.

OtherJen

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2019, 10:11:14 PM »
My 2012 MacBook Air is still going strong after 7 years of near-daily use (itís my work computer). No hardware issues, and the battery seems solid. I bought it to replace a 4-year-old Sony Vaio laptop with significant processor and battery issues and never regretted the decision.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2019, 06:07:07 AM »
I've got a late 2008 Macbook Pro that I've owned for about 10.5 years. Since El Capitan no longer receives updates (and newer versions of OSX aren't compatible with the hardware), it's now running Ubuntu MATE 19.04.

I've upgraded the RAM to 8GB, replaced the HDD with an SSD, and it's now on it's second battery (which itself is now almost dead).

Realistically it's just hanging in there. I really don't like the keyboards on the new Macs, so my next computer will be a Windows PC. Maybe I'll get something else soon, but I've been saying that since 2016 :)

robartsd

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2019, 11:18:31 AM »
Before buying the Pro in 2009, I had not been an Apple guy, using only PCs starting in 1997. And I had never gotten more than three years out of a PC laptop from 1997--2009. Just garbage. My only regret is that I didn't go to Mac sooner.
You didn't miss as much as you think. Between 1997 and 2009 Apple had several traditions that would lead to old equipment becoming obsolete due to lack of software support ("old world" PowerPC to "new world" PowerPC, PowerPC to Intel Core, Intel Core 32 bit to Intel Core 64 bit). An "old world" PowerBook from 1997 would have been stuck in Mac OS Classic when OS X rolled out. Wide adoption of OS X took a few years, but by 2002 it was pretty clear that you needed to upgrade to OS X if you wanted to update any software. Your 2002 PowerBook G4 would have been still going strong when Steve Jobs announced the transition to Intel Core in January 2005. If you put off the upgrade to Intel until the mid 2007 refresh, you probably would have gotten a pretty long life out of your third Apple notebook. Best case scenario for Apple hardware before the transition to 64 bit Intel was 5 years of useful life (Apple's build quality was always good, but in 2009, the uni-body construction of their notebooks stepped it up a notch). With the premium price of Apple hardware, that doesn't amount to all that much savings over PC hardware with 3 years of useful life. Since the transition to 64 bit Intel, upgrading has become much more optional for many people (both PC and Mac) because they can still run the latest software.

FIRE Artist

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2019, 07:26:03 AM »
I have the 2009 Macbook as well, I haven't really used it in the last couple of years because basically I just use my ipad now at home, but last week I needed to rip some DVDs, so I got out the macbook, which was plugged in and turned on this whole time, and it worked like a champ. 

Chris Pascale

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2019, 07:35:55 AM »
I've got a cheap-o HP laptop (touchscreen, number pad, but made of plastic). Have had it since 2015 and it serves the 6 of us well.

Edited to Add: I replaced the battery recently, and the back panel.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 07:28:59 PM by Chris Pascale »

Cadman

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2019, 07:50:24 AM »
I've always been a Mac guy, still have my PB G4 and clamshell iBook (which still work, btw). But my MBA is getting up there in years and storage capacity is starting to show. I have to say I've been impressed. 3 or 4 years ago it survived a hard drop onto concrete from 4' height onto its leading edge. I cleaned up the dented aluminum with a couple of files and it didn't miss a beat. Battery is still good, too. That makes it difficult to justify replacing it.

bacchi

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2019, 11:34:10 AM »
2012 was a good year.

Second battery, only upgrade is 16GB RAM, and the "super drive" is busted. Not that it was ever used -- I'm thinking of yanking it out to lighten it.

Previous Macbook was the white one, 2006, which had a screen failure.

diapasoun

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2019, 12:45:26 PM »
I have a 2007 MacBook. It hasn't been my primary computer for about three years, but it still functions. Slow as hell, but it goes. (The battery is dead, though -- I have to use it as a desktop, as of this last year.)

jpdx

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2019, 12:05:14 AM »
Love my 2013 MBP and in no hurry to upgrade to one without proper USB ports.

ULminimalist

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2019, 01:35:47 PM »
Cheap PC laptops are garbage in comparison. Good quality ones are as good or better. I used to build gaming desktops, and I could build a better, faster computer, with higher quality parts(gamer enthusiast parts have better PCBs and components), and they would last 10 years, I'd give them to relatives when they were obsolete for my purposes. I'd end up saving somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500 compared to buying an Apple computer, and it was a better computer to boot.

Alienware, Asus, Dell XPS, and such are better laptops than anything Apple offers, and they are cheaper. I play the latest PC games on my Alienware laptop, and it runs them high/ultra with no problems(10 series GPUs are almost the same as desktop GPUs, mobile videocards used to be much worse).

I had a 20 dollar Android smartphone that lasted me 3 years, upgraded it to a 60 dollar one, been working fine for the last year.

I just don't get the appeal of Apple, never have. Lower quality products that you can't fix yourself, that cost more. Maybe I'm missing something.

robartsd

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2019, 08:33:57 AM »
I just don't get the appeal of Apple, never have. Lower quality products that you can't fix yourself, that cost more. Maybe I'm missing something.
I think part of it is that the Apple brand is recognized as high quality because most people are more familiar with the cheap PC laptops than the high quality PC laptops. Apple also has established itself as a status brand and tends to have a better integrated user experience when using all Apple devices. I agree that if you know how to identify quality PC stuff, you can get a much better value by avoiding Apple. The status symbol and user experience advantages of Apple are more in people's heads than reality.

ULminimalist

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2019, 07:39:50 AM »
I just don't get the appeal of Apple, never have. Lower quality products that you can't fix yourself, that cost more. Maybe I'm missing something.
I think part of it is that the Apple brand is recognized as high quality because most people are more familiar with the cheap PC laptops than the high quality PC laptops. Apple also has established itself as a status brand and tends to have a better integrated user experience when using all Apple devices. I agree that if you know how to identify quality PC stuff, you can get a much better value by avoiding Apple. The status symbol and user experience advantages of Apple are more in people's heads than reality.

Yeah, I'm not against paying premium for quality, so it isn't the price that's the issue. If they were amazing, then it would be worth it, but I've checked everything they had when I built a PC, to see if I was missing anything.

Even if a cheap PC laptop only lasted 3 years, it's still cheaper in the long run. I used the Mac in the computer lab on campus a couple times, I found it clumsy and unintuitive compared to windows.

Though the iPod gen 5 nano was the best MP3 player I've ever had. Had it 5 years, took it on hikes, dropped it in puddles of water and on rocks, I don't baby my gear. I had to get rid of it when the battery only lasted like 3 hours. So they are capable of making good products.

snorr

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2019, 01:50:37 AM »
Cheap PC laptops are garbage in comparison. ...

Disagreeing from my 5,5 year old 720 chromebook, which then cost me Ä270. Been all over Europe with that thing and we've been using it daily for most of that time. Battery can still last 6-7 hourse :)

CrabbitDutchie

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2019, 01:57:44 PM »
Cheap PC laptops are garbage in comparison. ...

Disagreeing from my 5,5 year old 720 chromebook, which then cost me Ä270. Been all over Europe with that thing and we've been using it daily for most of that time. Battery can still last 6-7 hourse :)

Perhaps it's just slightly more luck of the draw with the others.

I mean, I don't want to brag, but I'm typing this on my 2007 Acer Aspire that I believe I bought for under £400 at the time. It's still my main computer and we're currently doing our third university degree together ;) Battery is dead as a doornail, and it no longer travels, but I love the ergonomics, full size keyboard, big screen and decent touchpad and will be sad when it finally gives up the ghost.

I have spent nothing on repairs in over 12 years. I did clean out the fan a couple of years ago and did a factory reset too when it got a bit slow and defragmenting the hard drive just wasn't cutting it any more, but that's all.

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2019, 11:18:23 AM »
I have a 2010 MBP that's still going strong. I recently upgraded the RAM and installed a SSD to make it faster, and I'm hoping to get 1-2 more years out of it before buying something new.

dootsiez

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2019, 05:57:54 PM »
2013 Macbook Air still going strong EXCEPT one of the ports is not working. I've been told it will cost me $900 to replace the port because they have to replace the whole motherboard. That plus the battery needs replacing means that I will probably be buying a new one next year. 7 years out of a MacBook Air is not too bad.

dang1

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2019, 09:45:34 PM »
Macbooks are never seen in police cars. Lots of Windows Panasonic Toughbooks, which most likely last alot longer than Macbooks.

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2019, 09:18:21 AM »
Macbooks are never seen in police cars. Lots of Windows Panasonic Toughbooks, which most likely last alot longer than Macbooks.

But what if the goal of police departments is to optimize for durability in an unpredictable field environment instead of longevity in an average environment?

ETA: Does anyone on the forum have a Panasonic Toughbook that has lasted 10 years? I'm curious if there are any data points.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 09:22:26 AM by Chris @ Saturday Financial »

neo von retorch

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2019, 09:39:33 AM »
In roughly 2006 I bought a Dell Inspiron 6400. I don't remember but there's a chance I upgraded it right away. Maybe not? Either way, maybe 9-10 years later, I put an SSD in it to keep it alive, but it's still running Windows XP. I gave it to my stepmom several years ago without connecting it to the internet. She just uses it to play games. The battery no longer holds a charge but it works when it's plugged in 13 years after purchase.

I also bought a Dell 17R (7720?) in 2013 but it gave me almost exactly 4 years before the motherboard died. Since it was used a lot for group games in the living room, it got picked up a lot, and I think the weak plastic body failed to protected the motherboard from pressure.

I built a desktop in late 2008, early 2009. Upgraded to SSDs since then and updated Windows through Windows 10. Rather un-frugally, I replaced it this spring because I was itching to build a new system, but it was still running at 98% (it did have a problem with cold boots but hitting reset would bypass this issue.) After building the new system, I had regrets spending the money since the old system didn't have any obvious flaws that the new system fixed (other than that cold boot issue and some minor "normal use" speed.) Hope to refurbish the old system (just need power supply and a license for Windows) and sell it or give it to a niece or nephew for games.

At work I use a mid-2014 Macbook Pro  - first time I "crossed sides." It has issues here and there like any personal computer (PC) but largely works very well. No idea on longevity as it's only been since July! But it performs just fine for the web development work I do, including running Docker.

Have I accumulated enough anecdotes to form data? :)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 10:37:30 AM by neo von retorch »

Cadman

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2019, 10:05:42 AM »
Macbooks are never seen in police cars. Lots of Windows Panasonic Toughbooks, which most likely last alot longer than Macbooks.

Toughbooks are certainly more rugged than consumer laptops, but being Panasonic has no control over the OS, they're at the same disadvantage as other Windows machines. The laptop might 'work fine' 10 years from now, but be utterly worthless from a productivity standpoint for a consumer. But in an industrial process or police environment, where database access or testing scripts are the most taxing thing the computer will see, and where a behind-the-scenes IT infrastructure exists to support these machines, it may pencil out.

The other problem is the added bulk to make them ruggedized. That, and the purchase price is 4x a MacBook Air.


Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2019, 10:06:43 AM »
In roughly 2006 I bought a Dell Inspiron 6400. I don't remember but there's a chance I upgraded it right away. Maybe not? Either way, maybe 9-10 years later, I put an SSD in it to keep it alive, but it's still running Windows XP. I gave it to my stepmom several years ago without connecting it to the internet. She just uses it to play games. The battery no longer holds a charge but it works when it's plugged in 13 years after purchase.

I also bought a Dell 17R (7720?) in 2013 but it gave me almost exactly 4 years before the motherboard died. Since it was used a lot for group games in the living room, it got picked up a lot, and I think the weak plastic body failed to protected the motherboard from pressure.

I built a desktop in late 2008, early 2009. Upgraded to SSDs since then and updated Windows through Windows 10. Rather un-frugally, I replaced it this spring because I was itching to build a new system, but it was still running at 98% (it did have a problem with cold boots but hitting reset would bypass this issue.) After building the new system, I had regrets spending the money since the old system didn't have any obvious flaws that the new system fixed (other than that cold boot issue and some minor "normal use" speed.) Hope to refurbish the old system (just need power supply and a license for Windows) and sell it or give it to a niece or nephew for games.

At work I use a 2015 Macbook Pro  - first time I "crossed sides." It has issues here and there like any personal computer (PC) but largely works very well. No idea on longevity as it's only been since July! But it performs just fine for the web development work I do, including running Docker.

Have I accumulated enough anecdotes to form data? :)

Those are some great data points. And yes: 4 data points = data set of 4. So well done, you formed data:) The Dell Inspiron data point is particular impressive!

robartsd

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2019, 12:55:38 PM »
but being Panasonic has no control over the OS, they're at the same disadvantage as other Windows machines.
I don't really see the practical disadvantage. Apple routinely drops OS support for older hardware whereas the average time span of any particular PC hardware being capable of running the most current Windows generally seems longer.

Cadman

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2019, 05:39:25 PM »
but being Panasonic has no control over the OS, they're at the same disadvantage as other Windows machines.
I don't really see the practical disadvantage. Apple routinely drops OS support for older hardware whereas the average time span of any particular PC hardware being capable of running the most current Windows generally seems longer.

I don't believe that's actually true. I know Apple dropped 32-bit native support a couple of OS versions ago, meaning I finally had to give up the '04 version of Office I was running, but other than that OS X support is quite stellar. And no complaints from the UNIX guys. There are never any 'security updates' or 'service patches' necessary. It was the shift to https browser compatibility that finally forced me to upgrade my 2010 MBA last month.

The problem I was getting at is that Microsoft has realized their traditional model is running out of steam. There's little reason for consumers to upgrade a working OS, and computers are lasting longer than ever. The only way to remain profitable selling software is to shift to a subscription based service and focus on enterprise office solutions. So you have Panasonic trying to sell a long-lasting computer, and Microsoft (having sold a single license for that machine) trying to figure out how they can get the user to throw money their way. If they outright discontinue OS support, they're the bad guy, but if they can shift users to Office 360, and eventually a network OS (that's where they're going), they'll keep the SW side viable.

robartsd

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2019, 09:21:24 AM »
I don't really see the practical disadvantage. Apple routinely drops OS support for older hardware whereas the average time span of any particular PC hardware being capable of running the most current Windows generally seems longer.

I don't believe that's actually true. I know Apple dropped 32-bit native support a couple of OS versions ago, meaning I finally had to give up the '04 version of Office I was running, but other than that OS X support is quite stellar. And no complaints from the UNIX guys. There are never any 'security updates' or 'service patches' necessary. It was the shift to https browser compatibility that finally forced me to upgrade my 2010 MBA last month.
You are flat out wrong that there are never any 'security updates' (though you probably just never notice them which certainly is a pro on the Apple side). Apple's current macOS requires a 2012 or newer Mac. Apple hardware is nearly certain to be outside security update support after about a decade - I'm pretty sure there is plenty of older hardware (including many of those old Macs) that can run the current version of Windows.

The problem I was getting at is that Microsoft has realized their traditional model is running out of steam. There's little reason for consumers to upgrade a working OS, and computers are lasting longer than ever. The only way to remain profitable selling software is to shift to a subscription based service and focus on enterprise office solutions. So you have Panasonic trying to sell a long-lasting computer, and Microsoft (having sold a single license for that machine) trying to figure out how they can get the user to throw money their way. If they outright discontinue OS support, they're the bad guy, but if they can shift users to Office 360, and eventually a network OS (that's where they're going), they'll keep the SW side viable.
I agree about Microsoft moving to a subscription model for their applications buisness because it is getting harder to justify software upgrades with features. They don't even try to sell consumers OS upgrades anymore, so Windows revenue only really comes from OEM licenses. I just don't see any evidence that there is greater risk of losing OS support on PC hardware than on Apple hardware.

Cadman

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2019, 06:13:04 AM »

You are flat out wrong that there are never any 'security updates' (though you probably just never notice them which certainly is a pro on the Apple side). Apple's current macOS requires a 2012 or newer Mac. Apple hardware is nearly certain to be outside security update support after about a decade - I'm pretty sure there is plenty of older hardware (including many of those old Macs) that can run the current version of Windows.

The problem I was getting at is that Microsoft has realized their traditional model is running out of steam. There's little reason for consumers to upgrade a working OS, and computers are lasting longer than ever. The only way to remain profitable selling software is to shift to a subscription based service and focus on enterprise office solutions. So you have Panasonic trying to sell a long-lasting computer, and Microsoft (having sold a single license for that machine) trying to figure out how they can get the user to throw money their way. If they outright discontinue OS support, they're the bad guy, but if they can shift users to Office 360, and eventually a network OS (that's where they're going), they'll keep the SW side viable.
I agree about Microsoft moving to a subscription model for their applications buisness because it is getting harder to justify software upgrades with features. They don't even try to sell consumers OS upgrades anymore, so Windows revenue only really comes from OEM licenses. I just don't see any evidence that there is greater risk of losing OS support on PC hardware than on Apple hardware.

Perhaps I'm just hyper-sensitive. I'm on hour 13 of a Windows 10 install that's 'stuck'. Is it an HP hardware compatibility problem or an MS installer problem? Not real pleased with either right now.

nereo

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2019, 08:31:35 AM »
Because of my job I've had to run parallel systems - the Windows based machines given to us  for government and a Mac for the university/lab/research.  The MS system has always been problematic, particularly with security updates, sharing files and interfacing with our network.  Far fewer problems with Apple machines and OS.  Department policy is to replace all windows laptops after 3 years - the Macs in our lab last more than 2x that.

I'm fine having either for personal use - but so much of what we do is networked/across dozens with users of various computer-literacy, and that's where I see the clear edge going to Apple.

FWIW sharing documents across OS platforms has never been seamless, and that's frustrating as hell.  Even using MS Office there are glitches goiung from Mac to PC, and vice versa - especially Excel, and particularly for dates.  Fun fact - MS Office calculates dates and times differently depending on the platform.  Why MS, why???!!!

robartsd

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2019, 12:40:34 PM »
Perhaps I'm just hyper-sensitive. I'm on hour 13 of a Windows 10 install that's 'stuck'. Is it an HP hardware compatibility problem or an MS installer problem? Not real pleased with either right now.
I do agree that Apple has a much better user experience (at least in part due to their integration as hardware and OS provider).

I'm probably just a little bitter about Apple's tendency to drop support for their old hardware because I purchased my PowerBook G4 in August 2004 (10 months before Apple announced plans to move from PowerPC to Intel Core processors). 5 years after getting my Mac, I no longer had a supported OS.

powskier

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2019, 05:59:28 PM »
Macbook pro still going strong at almost 11 years old. One hinge has been reinforced by a large sticker....but otherwise all good. I wish my socks lasted this long.

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2019, 03:19:41 AM »
Yeah, I can really relate. Same here (my McBook Pro is 9 years, still without any fail and going strong).

Here I was praising my MBP's longevity, and all of a sudden it's (probably) gone - from one day to the next it seems to have died. Still having it checked out to be fixed if possible (replacement battery), but if it's one of the charger items, apparently there are no repairs possible (or so they say) ...
Missing it already.

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2019, 12:35:21 PM »
I don't really see the practical disadvantage. Apple routinely drops OS support for older hardware whereas the average time span of any particular PC hardware being capable of running the most current Windows generally seems longer.

I don't believe that's actually true. I know Apple dropped 32-bit native support a couple of OS versions ago, meaning I finally had to give up the '04 version of Office I was running, but other than that OS X support is quite stellar. And no complaints from the UNIX guys. There are never any 'security updates' or 'service patches' necessary. It was the shift to https browser compatibility that finally forced me to upgrade my 2010 MBA last month.
You are flat out wrong that there are never any 'security updates' (though you probably just never notice them which certainly is a pro on the Apple side). Apple's current macOS requires a 2012 or newer Mac. Apple hardware is nearly certain to be outside security update support after about a decade - I'm pretty sure there is plenty of older hardware (including many of those old Macs) that can run the current version of Windows.

The problem I was getting at is that Microsoft has realized their traditional model is running out of steam. There's little reason for consumers to upgrade a working OS, and computers are lasting longer than ever. The only way to remain profitable selling software is to shift to a subscription based service and focus on enterprise office solutions. So you have Panasonic trying to sell a long-lasting computer, and Microsoft (having sold a single license for that machine) trying to figure out how they can get the user to throw money their way. If they outright discontinue OS support, they're the bad guy, but if they can shift users to Office 360, and eventually a network OS (that's where they're going), they'll keep the SW side viable.
I agree about Microsoft moving to a subscription model for their applications buisness because it is getting harder to justify software upgrades with features. They don't even try to sell consumers OS upgrades anymore, so Windows revenue only really comes from OEM licenses. I just don't see any evidence that there is greater risk of losing OS support on PC hardware than on Apple hardware.

My 2009 Dell Latitude is currently running Windows 10. So sure Windows Vista is no longer supported but I upgraded for free along the way as Microsoft offered the updates. So I wouldn't say that Microsoft no longer supports old devices because they don't support the old OS. Unlike Apple you can upgrade to the new OS when the old one is no longer supported.

nereo

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2019, 12:42:22 PM »
?
I've never had a problem updating my Macbook to a newer OS, and that's been free for decades (something MS only recently started offering).  There was a time in the late 90s when older machines couldn't make the jump for either platform because of the underlying architecture, but that was true of both Microsoft and Apple.

Xlar

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2019, 12:56:42 PM »
?
I've never had a problem updating my Macbook to a newer OS, and that's been free for decades (something MS only recently started offering).  There was a time in the late 90s when older machines couldn't make the jump for either platform because of the underlying architecture, but that was true of both Microsoft and Apple.

The latest version of MacOS is 10.15 Catalina. No Mac older than 2012 is supported: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Catalina#System_requirements

Xlar

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2019, 12:57:28 PM »

Xlar

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Re: Got a Decade Out of MacBook Pro
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2019, 01:29:49 PM »
I was curious how old a computer Windows 10 would support: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10#System_requirements

Based on some Googling the oldest processor that I could find that meets the minimum specs is from 2003: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Athlon_64_microprocessors#Athlon_64_FX So theoretically you could run it on a 16yr old computer!