Author Topic: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$  (Read 12969 times)

GuitarStv

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Thanks to some nifty government rebates it's possible to lock into a 20 year contract supplying green solar energy from your house.  The problem is, many people don't want to pay the expensive up front costs of solar panels (10 - 25k), the installation fees (3-5k), the fees to get an additional meter attached to your house to show how much you're feeding back into the grid (1500$ in Toronto) . . . when you're not sure if you'll be living in the home for long enough to recoup your costs (about 10 - 12 years last I calculated).

This company, http://www.pure-energies.com/,  installs a fully insured panel system on your house, does the hook-ups and maintenance, and pays you 400 - 1200 a year (depending on how much solar power your roof generates) for 20 years.  They also take down and store the panels once during the 20 year period in case you need to re-roof.  The contract (and solar panels) stay with the house if you sell.  You pay a total of 10$ per year for the 20 year term (which can be automatically subtracted from the amount of money you generate yearly, and at the end of that time, you own the  solar panels.  If you know you'll be in a house for 15 - 20 years, and can afford the up front costs of solar panels it's probably better to install your own.  However, if you aren't sure when you'll move . . . or can't afford the initial costs of installing and maintaining a solar array this seems like a pretty decent option.

We've signed up, and are waiting for them to confirm that the closest transformers can handle power being sent back into the grid.  The guy that we talked to indicated that since the rear of our house is unobstructed and south facing, we will likely be able to generate around 600 - 1000$ per year.

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 09:49:02 AM »
these systems sound great and i will definitely be looking closely at them if/when i have a house.
however, i have heard some issues brought up for consideration including: resale - although to me solar panels seem a fantastic asset not everyone may like them and may be put off by them (or perhaps the company involvement), how long are the feed in tariffs guaranteed for? if levels drop will it still seem worthwhile, also, how long will the panels last? will they actually last the full term? and what happens if the company goes under?
but i do love to see solar panels and i think a large proportion i see around will be due to these schemes.

Matt K

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 10:06:46 AM »
Please keep us updated on this. I'm very interested. Also, how big is your roof? We have a smallish house, but it gets reasonable sun (for our neck of the woods anyways). I'd be curious in figuring out how much we could expect...

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 10:09:21 AM »
these systems sound great and i will definitely be looking closely at them if/when i have a house.
however, i have heard some issues brought up for consideration including: resale - although to me solar panels seem a fantastic asset not everyone may like them and may be put off by them (or perhaps the company involvement), how long are the feed in tariffs guaranteed for? if levels drop will it still seem worthwhile, also, how long will the panels last? will they actually last the full term? and what happens if the company goes under?
but i do love to see solar panels and i think a large proportion i see around will be due to these schemes.

The solar energy rates for this program are guaranteed for 20 years by the Ontario government.

I thought long and hard about resale . . . came to the conclusion that resale should not be negatively affected by something guaranteed to return money each year with no upkeep or added insurance to pay.  There will be some complication needed to explain everything to the real estate agent, but I see it as an asset to the house.  And you can't even see the section of roof that the panels will be going on from our back yard or from the front of the house, so it's not like the house will look hideous.

The company has a 20 year rate guarentee from the Ontario government, so their business model should be pretty sound.  However, if the company does go under either they repossess the panels from our roof (at their cost), or we keep the panels . . . worst case scenario is we're at about the same point we were before getting the panels.

The solar panels have an expected 30 year lifespan.  The power inverter is another expensive piece that may go, but if it happens in the first 20 years then Pure Energies would pay for replacement.

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2013, 10:15:11 AM »
Please keep us updated on this. I'm very interested. Also, how big is your roof? We have a smallish house, but it gets reasonable sun (for our neck of the woods anyways). I'd be curious in figuring out how much we could expect...

Our house is about 2400 square ft.  They need to send a guy out to do light measurements and ensure that the roof can take the weight of the panels to tell us the total number that they can install.

BTW - the price break for installing these solar panels is due to a government program that specifies 50 megawatts of residential solar panels, last that I heard there were 9 MW remaining in the program.  You might want to talk to someone soon if you're interested, because once the program fills up you won't be able to get the same guaranteed rate.

Matt K

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 10:59:34 AM »
Yeah, it's a shame I didn't hear about this sooner. I will be bringing it up with my better half this evening.

unplugged

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 11:44:36 AM »
I would jump at a chance like that. My dream for solar is what this family below did. This is a long interesting journal of a couple that build an off grid cabin with solar power. It's a fun read and updates regularly. I think todays post was about adding more panels actually.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/tennessee/359683-going-off-grid-east-tennessee.html

strider3700

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2013, 01:32:42 PM »
For everyone else interested do some research and the math comparing these contracted systems to paying up front and just getting the full rebate. The extra income may be worth it to you.

  A couple of years ago Ontario was offering insane rates on solar generated residential systems.  In the 70 cents/kwh range.   Those systems recouped their money so fast they were very very popular and the province stopped offering that rate on new systems. They still offer a really good rate compared to BC  though so companies like the one mentioned are able to make money doing the installs and leasing the equipment out.  It may make more financial sense to buy a system depending on your circumstances.   

Even here in BC with a crappy net metering rate  I think paying upfront for solar isn't a bad investment.  I keep holding out hoping we'll see some real incentives that would sweeten the deal.  If anything like ontario offered ever comes up I'll pull the trigger immediately. 

Matt K

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 03:23:41 PM »
For everyone else interested do some research and the math comparing these contracted systems to paying up front and just getting the full rebate. The extra income may be worth it to you.

  A couple of years ago Ontario was offering insane rates on solar generated residential systems.  In the 70 cents/kwh range.   Those systems recouped their money so fast they were very very popular and the province stopped offering that rate on new systems. They still offer a really good rate compared to BC  though so companies like the one mentioned are able to make money doing the installs and leasing the equipment out.  It may make more financial sense to buy a system depending on your circumstances.   

I agree, from an investment perspective, it's probably better to buy (the initial rate in Ontario was 80.2 c/kwh, most systems paid for themselves in 8 years or less at that rate).

However, if either a) you don't have $20k-$40k to invest then 'free' is a good starting point; and b) if you don't plan on living in the house for long enough to really enjoy the pay-off. Being still rather young, I don't foresee myself still being in this house in 20 years. I certainly wouldn't mind if I was, but there are a lot of life changes that could alter my living needs. Both those things make this system an intriguing idea (if not as profitable as buying it yourself).

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 05:52:38 AM »
For everyone else interested do some research and the math comparing these contracted systems to paying up front and just getting the full rebate. The extra income may be worth it to you.

  A couple of years ago Ontario was offering insane rates on solar generated residential systems.  In the 70 cents/kwh range.   Those systems recouped their money so fast they were very very popular and the province stopped offering that rate on new systems. They still offer a really good rate compared to BC  though so companies like the one mentioned are able to make money doing the installs and leasing the equipment out.  It may make more financial sense to buy a system depending on your circumstances.   

I agree, from an investment perspective, it's probably better to buy (the initial rate in Ontario was 80.2 c/kwh, most systems paid for themselves in 8 years or less at that rate).

However, if either a) you don't have $20k-$40k to invest then 'free' is a good starting point; and b) if you don't plan on living in the house for long enough to really enjoy the pay-off. Being still rather young, I don't foresee myself still being in this house in 20 years. I certainly wouldn't mind if I was, but there are a lot of life changes that could alter my living needs. Both those things make this system an intriguing idea (if not as profitable as buying it yourself).

Yeah, that's sorta where I'm at at the moment.  Because I'm not sure that I can guarantee we'll be living here the 8 or 10 years we'll need to recoup costs of purchase, and I'm not sure that I can get enough value added to the sale price of the house from the solar system this is really the only way that I could consider adding the panels.  I think it's a nice happy medium.  The company makes money because the panels are guaranteed to be on your house for 20 years, you get some money from the company and you get to keep the panels after 20 years.

Kazimieras

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 10:06:33 AM »
So I did a bit of research last night and here are just some notes and analysis below. Yes, I am a huge freaking geek since I sickly like this kind of stuff and surprisingly I got to a different conclusion than I initially had:

Notes:
•On the buy page if you look at the financing options with TD, there is no link
•The news page is full of dead links, related articles, but very few mention the company at all by name.
•Company is not listed on google with respect to their actual address. The building exists, and they are likely in it, but it is odd.
•There is a separate meter, but in general power from the roof is fed directly into your house as solar power. Any excess is pushed out and sold on the grid. This may be important later.
•For reroofing you are required to use one of their contractors
•FAQ page uses what appears to be the flash file from the inverter and equipment company

 

Analysis:

This company is a middleman reseller. Given its lack of presence and size I suspect it does not have the pockets deep enough to fund the initial investment in the panels. This is likely being pushed by the panel creators or more likely the equipment company that makes the equipment between the panels and the grid (my cousin is in this area, apparently it is doing fairly well). I strongly suspect that the main backer is SMA, who seems to be one of the giants still around in the industry http://www.sma-america.com/en_US.html). High level research shows the 50MW of solar power with a fat KWh rate is distributed by geographic area. I suspect that the assumption is that they don't want to end up with too heavy a concentration of solar power in only one area. This would explain the glut of solar in the rural areas near Ottawa, and why some of they may not have been hooked up yet, so your area may work.

 

So does the financial math work? Probably (this is finance stuff so I always will play conservatively here)

From wiki the average amount of power a panel generates is 175 W/m². Next looking a roof I am making a rough guess would be 2 panels across and let's say 4 deep on your roof (thinking of 1mx1m panels), which gives at peak generation of 1.4KW/h, or on a sunny day 7KWh (assuming the equivalent of 5 hours of intense sunlight). Playing it safe let's say the rate the government pays is $0.60/KWh and that the panels generate the same amount of power throughout the year (hence the 5 hours assumption). 7 x 0.60 x 365 gives $1533 a year in income. So with the payment to you, depreciation, etc. it is likely that this is a good business deal for the company in question. Assuming their interest rates don't spike too much and that the government sticks to its word on prices*. So at least rest assured it isn't likely a scam or something that will blow up in a weird way*.


Considerations:

-Trees in the area may need to be trimmed or removed. The other half is who is responsible for keeping trees from shading the panels.

-If you share a roof with your neighbor, you may require their approval to install the panels. It also may increase your risk with respect to the next few points.

-Conditions of the install is that if you need your roof replaced (any idea how many years are left on the current roof?), you need to use one of their approved roof installers. Note the company is Toronto based and if you live outside of TO, you may not be able to find one of these roofers (or not for as good a price as you may find elsewhere).

-Panels on the roof will likely change drainage patterns. This can have some nasty implications, especially if it pushes more water onto your neighbour's property and it is damaged.

-How are these panels insured and does installing them require you to take out additional insurance on the house?

-In whose name would this be in (e.g yours, your spouse's, both)? It has some interesting tax and program repercussions (e.g. EI claims and income)

-I do not believe the price paid by the government is indexed to inflation. So assuming a 2% rate of inflation (this is the historic one to typically use), and based on the rule of 72 by the time the 20th year rolls around you are going to be earning about half as much as you initially did (assuming no reduction in electricity conversion with the cells as well).

-Resale! The 15% increase in price on a home is typically quoted if you own the panels and they are tied to your internal power network first. This is another contract that people have to agree to if they buy the home, so it will reduce the number of prospective buyers. If you have no intention on moving in the next 20 years, this is moot.


 Risks:

*if company that owns the contract goes belly up the contract will likely be bundled up and sold as an asset, as well as the equipment. These could even be sold separately, which gets very messy. Given your level on the totem pole of debt repayments the likely case is that your contract would be made null and void and the equipment removed from your roof. So I suspect the worst case is that you end up with some weird marks and likely cosmetic and superficial damage to your roof.

*I have a natural tendency not to trust the government to deliver on a long-term promise - especially if it is costing money and is unpopular with the taxpayers. That $0.80 or $0.60/KWh rate is in place and may stay for the next 20 years. It may also disappear, and I do say that with a lot of seriousness. What the government of Ontario is currently doing is technically illegal. The rate guarantee has some neat asterisks in how it was set up and granted. The condition is that most of the 'green tech' needs to come from Ontario to qualify. Now this isn't a problem for this install, I am sure it will meet the criteria. The problem is the result of an international ruling and complaint (search for "Ontario solar international dispute" in your favorite search engine). Germany, China, and several other countries were claiming Ontario was breaking international law by effectively making a perverted form of tariff against foreign green technology. This is where it gets murky since international law is subjectively applied, but in short what the government set up is being challenged and it is not improbable that they will have to back peddle on the current guarantee. The take home from this * is make sure you cover the exit clauses in the contract in-case of an eventuality of the premium being clawed back.


Conclusion:

I'd likely say go for it with the company, but make sure the exit clauses are iron clad for you to be as protected as you can. It isn't going to be a ton of money, but assuming they handle all maintenance, it is very little work for a little bit of passive income.

Matt K

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2013, 10:27:33 AM »
For those wondering about Kazimeras specific mention of roof sizes, he was talking about my roof in specific (he and I are good friends in that weird place they call 'real life').

My house is a semi-detached, hence the comments about sharing a roof and the effects it would have on neighbours.
Given that my house is more than 20 feet wide, I expect it could hold many more than two 1m panels. I figure 4m x 4m of panel is very doable. That said, in one of the articles they link to on their page, someone in Toronto with a 3000sqft house gets $1000/year from them. Since our house is only 1400sqft, we'd be getting much less than that.

The only tree we have that provides shade over the roof needs to come down due to disease anyways.

My wife pointed out, in the testimonials page, they were very careful to crop all the photos so you cannot see the roofs of the people's houses - that's not a good sign.

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 12:04:15 PM »
Some good points brought up about this idea.  I will attempt to clear up a few misunderstandings above:

- All energy generated by the solar system is fed into the grid.  It is not used by your house first and then the remainder is sold.  You continue to draw power as you normally would, but you have a separate meter hooked up to monitor the amount of power you feed back into the system.

- You *do not* need to use one of their roof installers.  If you use one of their roof installers, they will remove and store the panels for 0$ one time during the 20 year contract.  If you do not use their roof installers, there is a charge of 500$ to remove the panels and store them while your contractor is working on the roof.

- The panels and rest of the system are fully insured (2 million dollars) by Pure Energies . . . having read the insurance contract, it is very comprehensive.  Including Wind Damage, Acts of God, Acts of Terrorism, Fire Damage, Flood Damage, Damage Caused by The System (flying panels, fire), Third Party Liability, etc.

- Panels on the roof do not change drainage patterns.  The panels do not extend past the lip of the roof, and all water will drain off the panels, onto the roof and continue to be caught in our current downspouts.

- Panel systems are not offered to people with roofs where trees are expected to provide significant shade.  We don't have any tall trees near the house, and I'm not sure if the homeowner is responsible for cutting and trimming trees . . . That's a good question though, I'll send an email asking about that.


A few other thoughts:

- If the high energy rates are revoked by the government in the future, you are at less risk if your solar panels are owned by someone else.  Worst case scenario, the company running the program goes bankrupt . . . they remove the panels from your roof and you're at roughly the same place you were before getting them hooked up.

- Making some money from your roof is, in my opinion, a 100% higher return when compared to making no money from your roof.  Without the government program, and this company footing much of the risk, our roof would return 0 $ a year.

- I don't consider adding the panels to really increase the value of your home.  However, I would also not consider it to significantly decrease the value of your home . . . it provides a steady stream of income for literally no homeowner involvement for 20 years, with the potential to keep the system at the end.  I think this might end up a slight incentive when selling the house.

Alan2

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 02:24:39 PM »
About a year ago there was an article in the Guardian highlighting some possible problems with getting mortgages on houses in the UK with these free solar panels.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/mar/23/solar-panels-dim-mortgage-prospects

As the number of solar paneled houses increases this problem may go away, but I thinks it's something to research if you are thinking about getting them installed in the near future.

Nords

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 11:13:44 PM »
Hey, Kazimieras, you might be over-analyzing this situation.

Photovoltaic companies need customers with money.  Unfortunately those customers are pretty rare.

To stay afloat until customers have money, PV companies have teamed up with lenders-- in much the same way that new car dealers rarely actually own the cars but instead are just shuffling loans as fast as they can move the cars off the lot.  Now the PV companies can tell the customers that no money is required.  The lenders don't give a crap about the panels or the customers since they're making their money from the PV company.

PV panels are rapidly depreciating assets.  The PV company is installing them, taking whatever tax credits they can get off the top, and depreciating the rest.  The lender handles the insurance while the PV installer really makes their money off their speed-demon installation crews.  Just like that car dealer, it's all about the volume. 

If the PV company goes bankrupt, nobody is coming for the panels.  They're worth nothing on the resale market and the removal labor is too expensive.

If a PV company is offering a no-money-down deal, then I'd ask them to handle all the permits (including the HOA) and the net-metering or power-producing agreement with the electric company.  The PV company is doing that anyway because it helps them efficiently ramp up their sales volume instead of spending all their time waiting on customers to finish their paperwork.  The homeowner should sit on the sofa and eat bonbons be slaving away in a cubicle at work while the installation crew is scampering around on the roof.

Yes, no money down is a good deal for the PV company.  However it's technically a good deal for the no-money-down customer, considering that their only alternative is to pay for electricity out of their own pockets with no way to hedge against fuel prices or inflation. 

Customers with money get a better deal than a no-money-down customer.  However, as has already been noted, many customers can't be confident of staying in residence long enough to realize the payback, and I don't think home buyers are willing to pay up for PV.  Buyers are getting more educated in states where PV is common, but in general they won't pay for PV any more than they'll pay for solar water heating or energy-efficient insulation or an upgraded roof.  It just does not show up in the real estate appraisal or the comps.  Customers pay for granite countertops, swimming pools, media rooms, and bowling alleys.  Well, maybe not the bowling alleys.

I would be skeptical of any PV power calculator.  Our state has a pretty detailed insolation map, and the amount varies by as much as 20% over as little as a mile.  Local weather effects (especially microclimates around hills) will make a huge difference in cloud cover.  Hawaii's vog will knock down power generation over 10% (hopefully not a problem in your area) and pollution could do likewise.  Our power generation also varies by 25% from winter to summer, and we're at 22 degrees latitude so I bet anything north of that would vary even more. 

The best source of PV performance is the neighbor on your street who's had their own array for a while.

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 06:35:38 AM »
Many good comments in this thread, and a few ideas I hadn't considered with the solar lease.

- The trimming/maintenance of trees near the solar array is not a term of the contract . . . but both the homeowner and the vendor make more money if the array doesn't have trees shading it, so it makes sense for the home owner to do this.
- There is a buyout clause on the solar lease (which can be exercised in case of mortgage problems/trouble selling the house).  I've emailed to ask for full details as to how that works, as I'm a little unclear at this point.

Kazimieras

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 09:46:26 AM »
I don't think it was over analyzing, and my conclusion is that it is a good thing to do - but like all things buyer beware, which GuitarStv seems to be doing an awesome job of (checking the nitty gritty contract terms)! The largest risk the way I see it is that the government reneges on their deal and what happens in that case and the points brought up here seem to basically make that risk as close to zero as possible.

The best source of PV performance is the neighbor on your street who's had their own array for a while.
I wish there were more near me that had panels on their house as it would be great to ask them. However my area is fairly devoid of solar (downtown area, recently started the gentrification process). I would consider adding panels same on my house, however I am still toying with the idea of building another story on the place (rather than moving, it seems to be more cost effective) and this kind of arrangement would only overcomplicate my situation :(

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 08:48:07 AM »
Hmmm . . . crunched the numbers, checked everything out and we finally determined that we don't like the potential hassle/risk of trouble selling the house for the pay-off (about 400$ a year all said and done).  The buyout terms for purchasing the solar panels are somewhat punitive for my tastes (you pay for the depreciated cost of the solar panels, plus the total remaining cash that the company expects to get for the remaining 20 years on the house.

We're running the numbers on outright buying a solar system now.  The break even point appears to sit at around 7 years, and we're expecting to be in our current house for at least 10 - 15.

RobtByard

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2014, 09:56:56 AM »
Thanks to some nifty government rebates it's possible to lock into a 20 year contract supplying green solar energy from your house.  The problem is, many people don't want to pay the expensive up front costs of solar panels (10 - 25k), the installation fees (3-5k), the fees to get an additional meter attached to your house to show how much you're feeding back into the grid (1500$ in Toronto) . . . when you're not sure if you'll be living in the home for long enough to recoup your costs (about 10 - 12 years last I calculated).

This company, http://www.pure-energies.com/,  installs a fully insured panel system on your house, does the hook-ups and maintenance, and pays you 400 - 1200 a year (depending on how much solar power your roof generates) for 20 years.  They also take down and store the panels once during the 20 year period in case you need to re-roof.  The contract (and solar panels) stay with the house if you sell.  You pay a total of 10$ per year for the 20 year term (which can be automatically subtracted from the amount of money you generate yearly, and at the end of that time, you own the  solar panels.  If you know you'll be in a house for 15 - 20 years, and can afford the up front costs of solar panels it's probably better to install your own.  However, if you aren't sure when you'll move . . . or can't afford the initial costs of installing and maintaining a solar array this seems like a pretty decent option.

We've signed up, and are waiting for them to confirm that the closest transformers can handle power being sent back into the grid.  The guy that we talked to indicated that since the rear of our house is unobstructed and south facing, we will likely be able to generate around 600 - 1000$ per year.

Yes the initial cost is  bit high but these panels helps in saving plenty in coming years..Even I am using these panels for sometime now..
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 12:10:48 PM by RobtByard »

Bob W

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2014, 10:02:11 AM »
Don't forget to have a whole house energy audit by a certified auditor.    I'm guessing many readers here could reduce power consumption by 40% with a few simple tweaks. 

BPA

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 02:09:20 PM »
This is an interesting thread.  I own a semi-detached house in Hamilton and have been curious about this.

My concern is about "guarantees" when the provincial government changes.  There was a lot of noise about how the Hudak Conservatives wanted to scrap these plans if they were elected.  With a new majority government, there are no real guarantees. 

Anyway, thanks everyone for the information.

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2014, 05:58:48 AM »
I forgot about this thread!  In the end we changed our mind and outright bought the solar panels.  Initial cost was more, but long term pay-off ends up being significantly more.

One unexpected annoyance to having the panels on our roof is that in the winter when we get lots of snow, it tends to slide off all at once in a large chunk off the panel and launch off the roof.  I haven't figured out a way to prevent this yet, and it is kinda a safety hazard.  I am not sure if this will happen every year, or if it was only due to the super crappy winter we had last year.

I'm not concerned about the government cancelling the contract.  We would sue, and win.  Actually, pretty much everyone involved in the microFIT program would sue, and win.  What's more likely is that they eventually cancel the program and no more new people can sign up.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 06:06:23 AM by GuitarStv »

MikeBear

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2014, 12:46:56 AM »
Here's one cure for snow and ice sliding off by itself: http://www.homedepot.com/p/True-Temper-17-ft-Snow-Roof-Rake-1634500/100325744

Take it down when YOU want, before it can crash down by itself. We do this every year to keep the snowload lighter on the roof.

NaturallyHappier

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2014, 06:50:12 PM »
I use a pool brush for the panels on my garage.  The panels in my back yard tilt, so they are at 25 degrees from vertical in the winter.  Snow only lasts a few hours at that angle before it just slides off.

I installed solar in 2010 and expanded in 2013.  I now generate all the power to power and heat my 2400 sq ft home.  I will break even on the solar in 2015.  After that I will continue to have free power and generate $7 to $10K income from SRECs for the next 25 years.  My home is paid off, have on site water and sewer and the solar income pays the taxes.  $0 housing cost!

Ken
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 03:37:47 PM by FranklinBuffett »

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2014, 08:31:10 AM »
My panels are on the roof over the second floor it's more than 35 degrees pitched (so surprisingly difficult to walk on) and is 24 ft up in the air.  I like the idea of brushing the snow off of them . . . but the idea of climbing a ladder below the heavy snow on the slidey glass and trying to push stuff in the cold wind above my paving stone patio seems to be a recipe for accidents.

MikeBear

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Re: Getting solar panels installed on my house for 200$, initial cost 0$
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2014, 01:10:31 PM »
You can buy extension handles for the snow rakes, and they are fairly light to start with, so it's possible you might be able to reach to a second floor from the ground.

On the other hand, maybe you can spray your panels with something so slippery, that the snow/ice just slides off before it builds up.