Author Topic: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home  (Read 80541 times)

gdborton

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2013, 06:59:04 PM »
I lost 40 lbs this year, another 20 and I might have to consider this :)

I don't see the problem morally at all.

michaelrecycles

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Monterey Bay
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2013, 08:11:07 PM »
Masturbation is overrated.

Hah really? Thanks for the update.

--

Seriously, I appreciate this thread, particularly comments made with the understanding that one size does not fit all. (Or cannot fit all!)

Le0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
    • My Path to Financial Independence in 2014
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2013, 08:45:38 PM »
Masturbation is overrated.

Hah really? Thanks for the update.

--

Seriously, I appreciate this thread, particularly comments made with the understanding that one size does not fit all. (Or cannot fit all!)

It is a very fun thread. I am still interested in how much Bakari makes off of this.

Roses

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 189
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2013, 09:59:10 PM »
I see no problem with it whatsoever and I'll be interested to hear updates on how it's going.  Both how you feel and how much money you make.  You are clearly very comfortable sexually ;)  This kind of thing has been around in one form or another for so long it's just human nature.  It's true what someone said that there is a lot of exploitation in the industry.  But that's no reason not to participate in the non-exploitative part of it.  In fact, I think you're doing a good thing by contributing the the healthy and harmless side of it.  there should be more of that and less of the 'barely legal' stuff out there!

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2013, 10:48:10 PM »
You seem not to recognize the fact that it might impact an individual's ability to bond with people who feel like this activity crosses a boundary that they wish to see in place in their close relationships...
I'm telling you there are a lot of people out there like this and if you are like this your easy money project is not easy money for them and they might not realize the impact until after they do it.
I don't understand what I said came across as "everyone must do this"

My replies to some of what you wrote earlier were directed at the earliest comments suggesting that the entire thing was destructive to all relationships, "lacking in ethical self-dignity", that it was, (or bordering on) exploitation.
Nothing I wrote here should be construed to suggest that I believe everyone should feel comfortable doing something like this, or that it is something everyone should try.  You keep saying "it wouldn't be easy money for many", and neither I nor anyone else has ever contradicted that. 

Similarly, I know many people who don't feel comfortable with the ethics of investing in the stock market.  Its certainly a question I have wrestled with.  But when MMM or anyone here recommends a particular investment strategy, I don't read it as an insistence that I personally must follow it, and so I feel no need to interject with my own personal feelings about it. 


Quote
There are many for whom to adopt your advice would mean the loss of some values they find important and the loss of a lifestyle that works well for the love, comfort and happiness of their family. 
Even further, it will absolutely not work for their emotional well-being.
First of all, it was never advice.  It was just information.  I was sharing what I did, for the benefit of anyone who might be interested but it never occurred to them, or they didn't realize how easy it actually is to set up.

Second, those people wouldn't do it!  It's that simple!! 

Quote
  You are trying to put a round peg into your square box and using your logic to pound it in anyway if you are saying what you are doing is fine for everyone and the ethically and logically superior choice. 
I never said anything of the sort!  Although, given that you read that into something I wrote, I can understand the reaction.

Quote
  It also might encourage people who haven't worked out their values that it is easy fun money, and they might later regret this.

18 years is a long time to work out at least the most basic of values.

Yes, people can potentially change fundamental things, all through out life.  Corporate lawyers and tobacco farmers may later regret their choices too.  People from all walks of life occasionally wake up and decide to be a nun or an activist or whatever.
 
Then again, there are people who look back on their life from old age and regret all the things they missed out on.

We can't know the future, not even of our own minds.

But adults get to make their own choices - even ones they might hypothetically regret someday.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 11:12:59 PM by Bakari »

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2013, 10:53:23 PM »
Where do you draw the line at employing sexual topics in a manner that produces passive or active income?

Are nude models for art classes crossing some line?
Writers of erotic romance novels?
Sex chat (no visuals) operators?
Degreed, credentialed, licensed sex therapists?

No snark in my questions -- pure curiosity. I think Bakari's bringing out some interesting discussion here.

How about underwear models for the Sears catalog, or an actress who does a non-sexual topless scene (a scene in a hippy commune, for example), or even a shoe model, given that foot fetish is one of the most common ones?
Should it change the meaning for them if some viewers get a sexual thrill from viewing it, even if it wasn't the intention?


For that matter - speaking of the internet degrading real life human connection, what about the impact of web forums increasingly taking the place of real life face-to-face interactions?  Could it be that facebook and twitter are at least as much to blame for reducing the meaning in our lives?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 09:19:07 PM by Bakari »

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2013, 11:19:24 PM »
I see no problem with it whatsoever and I'll be interested to hear updates on how it's going.  Both how you feel and how much money you make.  You are clearly very comfortable sexually ;)

In principal maybe!
In practice, it is just as weird as you might imagine it would be (given that I, though open minded and LGBT friendly, happen to be straight, and most of the clients are male)
Incidentally, there has been exactly 0 (real) masturbation thus far.  Not that I wouldn't, it just hasn't been... um... possible.
(See post #15, by SethBahookey)

I doubt I'll make all that much.  The pool of viewers of a single male is much smaller than for a single female or couples.  And it has to fit in with my real jobs, and recreation time - its just a random side thing, not something I intend to put any real time or effort into. 

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2013, 09:42:12 AM »
oh, btw -
to all those with brief but positive comments

Thank you!

Richard3

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2013, 07:57:14 PM »

I think we can all see you've got balls Bakari.

Well if we pay a dollar a minute we can :)

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2154
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2013, 12:24:08 PM »
You seem not to recognize the fact that it might impact an individual's ability to bond with people who feel like this activity crosses a boundary that they wish to see in place in their close relationships...
I'm telling you there are a lot of people out there like this and if you are like this your easy money project is not easy money for them and they might not realize the impact until after they do it.
I don't understand what I said came across as "everyone must do this"

My replies to some of what you wrote earlier were directed at the earliest comments suggesting that the entire thing was destructive to all relationships, "lacking in ethical self-dignity", that it was, (or bordering on) exploitation....

Quote
  It also might encourage people who haven't worked out their values that it is easy fun money, and they might later regret this.

18 years is a long time to work out at least the most basic of values.

Yes, people can potentially change fundamental things, all through out life.  Corporate lawyers and tobacco farmers may later regret their choices too.  People from all walks of life occasionally wake up and decide to be a nun or an activist or whatever.
 
Then again, there are people who look back on their life from old age and regret all the things they missed out on.

We can't know the future, not even of our own minds.

But adults get to make their own choices - even ones they might hypothetically regret someday.

I never said that you stated that everyone must do it.  I also did not say these activities were always lacking in ethical self-dignity. 

I said that masturbating online for money could be potentially self-destructive and lacking in ethical self-dignity to quote a Buddhist concept.  It seems as though you interpreted this as a blanket statement that the behaviour was unethical.  The Buddhist concept of ethical self- dignity states that self-destructive behaviour may be motivated by naivety and leads to not caring about how our behavior reflects on us and having no concern about how our behavior reflects on others, such as on those we care about.  It seems to me that this type of behaviour COULD fit this category, not that yours does or that someone else's might or might not.  Whether or not you agree with the concept of ethical self-dignity, it seems to encapsulate a possible outcome.

My response was to your statement that it is church and state controlling us in some way that creates this barrier that turns sex for money into something different than, say, painting a house for money.  Saying that those who view sex for money as different from any job are indoctrinated and operating with false logic is, in my view, judgmental and based on faulty reasoning.

If it is only church and state that are creating this moral boundary, those who have this moral boundary it follows that those who are simply indoctrinated/brainwashed and not able to form their own viewpoint.  If only they were able to free themselves of these illogical concepts they would see that sex for money really is like taking money for painting a house.

I don't happen to agree with you.  I might have at 25 because at 25 I was focussed on ideas and ideals.  At 40 I have lived enough to know that for many our emotional lives are a far more powerful driver and pure logic divorced from emotional drivers will not generally create great social policy or lead to what works to create more happiness.  Unfortunately for those with a strong facility for pure logic, life is not a math equation.

So, how do I evaluate  ideals and intellectual concepts?  My bottom line is does this work in real life to increase happiness?  When I look around I would say that your option does not work in real life for me and would not work for those I am closely associated with and care about and I don't want my children following your example.  I do not believe in my case this is because of church and state indoctrination, but, in my view, because of the need for close and intimate relationships based on shared ideas and concepts of meaning that work in real life today, and not just on paper in a theoretical utopian future.   

With your choice to engage in these activities you are narrowing the numbers of those who will view your choices as conducive to a truly close emotional relationships with them.  You don't care because you are okay with these limits, perhaps because you view those who do not think like you as unsuitable partners and friends and better to weed them out.  That is fine.  This is not to say that you should not have the freedom to pursue your ideal reality and that pushing boundaries is not valuable, but to say that those who view sex for money as not easy money and not a positive choice for them and their family are indoctrinated and somewhat illogical is not okay in my books. 

Also, imo, eighteen years is not a long time to learn what makes you happy.  I would say most people I know went through an experimental stage until their mid-twenties.  There is a reason that social change is embraced by younger generations first: they have less to lose, have not experienced consequences and often do not have the same self-imposed limits.  This can be good for social progress, but, in my experience, it also means these individuals are often more vulnerable to doing what does not make them happier.

I've noticed that some youth are particularly vulnerable to social pressure to do all sorts of things that they might later regret.  I see this in the work I do and I don't know any probation officer or social worker who would not agree.  The most vulnerable seem to be those who don't have strong emotional support systems or those who have emotional issues to work through.  I know many people who regret choices made early in life as a result of social pressure because of underlying emotional drivers - like the need to fit in and be part of a group.

So, adults get to make their own choices, but part of that is really understanding the impact these choices may have.  Everything we do has consequences.  We create promote and allow the things that happen in our life to a great degree.  Being exposed to alternate viewpoints was always helpful for me.  I would not like any person to read your "fun and easy money from the comfort of home" and get carried away with a plan to do this which they later come to regret.

lifejoy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3927
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Canada, eh
  • Lovin' the Mustachian life!
    • Not Buying This
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2013, 01:14:23 PM »

I think we can all see you've got balls Bakari.

Well if we pay a dollar a minute we can :)

Bahahhaa! that made me laugh so hard. Also, definitely tempted to be a foot fetish model...

Have you all heard the saying, "If it exists, there's a fetish of it!" <--- probably very true.

nikki

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
  • Age: 35
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2013, 04:51:12 PM »

I think we can all see you've got balls Bakari.

Well if we pay a dollar a minute we can :)

Bahahhaa! that made me laugh so hard. Also, definitely tempted to be a foot fetish model...

Have you all heard the saying, "If it exists, there's a fetish of it!" <--- probably very true.

I know of one model who only shows her feet. No one even knows what the rest of her body looks like.

She doesn't make much money, though. But she's on a lot, so it probably evens out to be a decent chunk. I suspect she's reading or doing other work while she wiggles her toes around for tips and prospective private sessions.

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2013, 08:08:43 PM »

I think we can all see you've got balls Bakari.

Well if we pay a dollar a minute we can :)

Bahahhaa! that made me laugh so hard. Also, definitely tempted to be a foot fetish model...

Have you all heard the saying, "If it exists, there's a fetish of it!" <--- probably very true.

Is that a corrolary to Rule 34?

plantingourpennies

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • None.
    • Money, Kittens, Happiness
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2013, 07:45:56 PM »
@Totoro; MOD EDIT: Personal attack removed. The guy is an adult, and is not hurting anybody; I won't sit by while you try to shame him in a public forum for his personal choices.

@Le0; MOD EDIT: Personal attack removed. If you disagree with someone's interpretation of Kant it would be more productive to tell us why instead of calling them names. Please refer to rules 1, 2, and 4

@Bakari; Good on you for exploring your limits! It ain't my thing, but I'll happily defend your right to pursue it!

Best,
Mr. PoP
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 07:48:09 AM by arebelspy »

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2154
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2013, 11:15:51 PM »
It is interesting that you perceive my comments as moral outrage.   I don't feel outraged, but I am interested in the underlying issues it raised for me.

None of my comments, if you read them, were directed at Bakari's participation in this, but rather:

1. the presentation of it as an easy and fun way to make money
2. the question that was posed as to whether you would be okay with your children doing this
3. the statement that those who believe that exchanging sex for money is different than, say typing a document for money are simply indoctrinated by church and state

I don't care if Bakari does this.  He seems to have a worked-out set of ethics around it and he is an adult.  He raises an interesting issue for me that I haven't really thought much about.  What I have thought about is that prostitution should be legalized and the internet has changed things for our children.  I agree that what consenting adults want to do is up to them, but I also think that alternate viewpoints are helpful when making choices. 

The thing is that, unlike Bakari, when asked the question, I realized I do care if my children do think this is a fun and easy way to make money.  I don't believe this is due to indoctrination by church and state but because it does not fit my own worked-out set of ethics that are grounded in what makes me and the people around me happier.  What works.  I do believe this type of activity could backfire for some for the reasons I set out.  I will love my children no matter what and help them always, but I, as a parent want them to be happy so I focus on what I know works for this.

That is the good thing about living where we do - we do get to develop our own set of ethics and live by them.  I'm not telling anyone they need to live by mine and those that are considering this will make their own decisions.  I'm also not saying that if you do this you are going to experience negative consequences.  I would because I would feel bad doing it.  You might not.   

Ethics are interesting.  I believe we are all entitled to develop our own and the law steps in to impose limits when there is perceived or actual harm caused by the behaviour, although we have seen that this has changed over time and the law has not always been just.  Drinking and driving used to be okay.  Homosexuality was not.  People who push boundaries based on well-thought ethics are to be recognized for the positive social change they bring that rectifies injustice imposed by a "moral majority". 

That said, this issue does not strike me as one grounded in a pressing need for social change based on injustice in the world.  Sexual ethics are changing and will continue to change.  I do know that I am being honest in my response and I'm entitled to my own views.

Are you trying to shut down my viewpoint for a reason? You sound morally outraged by it.  But perhaps you did not read what I wrote in total or misinterpreted something. 

In any event, I have little patience for rudeness, but quite a bit of admiration for Bakari's ability to respond to alternate viewpoints with well-thought out commentary.

HappierAtHome

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8032
  • Location: Australia
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2013, 02:41:52 AM »
I actually thought this was a good example of well reasoned and reasonable discussion, with both totoro and bakari providing their opinions in a thoughtful and respectful manner. It's Mr PoP whose comments strike me as disrespectful, with a personal attack on totoro that seems way out of line with the conversation going on here.

I agree with bakari overall on the topic of human sexuality, but totoro's rational discussion on why s/he wouldn't want her/his kids doing it really resonated with me. Good points from both parties have pushed me to consider my stance, so thanks for the challenging ideas :-)

Elaine

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 467
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
    • Small Things Good
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2013, 10:11:32 AM »
I seriously considered this- I was just concerned that someone would record me or take my image and it would end up on sites all over the place. If there were some certain safeguard against that happening then I would do it in a second. I mean, it's not any more degrading than half the service industry jobs I've had- plus if I'm home I'm pretty much lounging in underwear either way, so...

Le0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
    • My Path to Financial Independence in 2014
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2013, 10:17:44 AM »
I seriously considered this- I was just concerned that someone would record me or take my image and it would end up on sites all over the place. If there were some certain safeguard against that happening then I would do it in a second. I mean, it's not any more degrading than half the service industry jobs I've had- plus if I'm home I'm pretty much lounging in underwear either way, so...

From the sounds of it, it might require a little more than lounging in underwear.

But you bring up a point, Bakari said that there are some many people doing it that the worry that your image is going to be passed around like that is small, and if it does happen the internet is a very large place.

YK-Phil

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1111
  • Location: Yellowknife NWT
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2013, 10:29:23 AM »
This is badass in more ways that one! If I add a sit-up routine in my daily workout to get rid of the only extra two pounds of fat I carry, I might consider a part time job like this!

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2154
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2013, 11:02:51 AM »
I'm not sure that Bakari's take on the level of anonymity associated with internet activity is correct.

I recently received an email about fellow I went to high school with.  It was a not very flattering post about him by someone he had dated.  The thing is, we've all been out of high school for more than twenty years, I haven't seen this fellow since then, and this was the SECOND time this had been forwarded to me.  He doesn't even live in Canada anymore.

Even when an image is not attached, identification is a possibility.  Not only from an IP address, but also by someone who knows you figuring it out.  I have an acquaintance who was concerned about some behaviours and discovered her boyfriend's ad on a website for sexual encounters.  There was no picture and no identifiable information except the username, which was quite like another username she knew he used.  She was able to confirm this, and she told everyone about it - including what he had been looking for which some folks found off-putting.  I am also aware of a number of divorce cases in which internet activity and images have been tendered.

In my view, the internet is not anonymous, particularly with recognizable images.  The chances of someone finding these images and forwarding them around to others is, imo, quite high.  The urge to gossip and forward titillating information, while ethically questionable, is quite powerful - whole magazines cater to this.  And you might never know it had happened.

If this bothers you then you might want to take this into account.  If it doesn't, then there really is not risk.  If you view pictures of your genitals the same way you view pictures of your face and don't mind others commenting on them, then you are likely ok here too.

More disturbing, this brings to mind the many nude phone pics and sexting that kids are sending and the fact that these images are often forwarded on.  We have had two public cases in Canada that I'm aware of where this led to bullying that led to the young women taking their lives.  In addition, the teens that forwarded the messages can now be charged with distributing child pornography.

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2013, 11:29:02 AM »
In the first one or two of Totoro's posts I pretty much interpreted it as moralizing too, although since she has explained it more thoroughly and it's changed how I read the first ones.  I'm glad everyone else read it as reasonable and respectful, because, honestly, I felt we were perhaps both a bit reactionary at first - certainly I felt that way.

There were particular phrases I was reacting to, (as I quoted later), but since she has made it clear the focus is on what works for her, and what she believes works those close to her, which I totally get. 
I, for example, have absolutely no problem with homosexuality in principal (obviously), but, having tried it, it simple doesn't work for me.  Practicing it would not bring me happiness.

LeO was on to something when pointing out some consider anything connected with sexuality to be "sex", and some don't.
I don't see any of this as being remotely "sex".  I would definitely not be willing to have any form of physical contact with any of my fans, not for any price.

And I don't feel any conflict between enjoying the purely physical sensations of sex sometimes, and having it be a meaningful expression of deeply felt mutual love at other times, any more than I feel a conflict between mostly eating healthy and sometimes enjoying ice cream.  Many people feel there is a conflict there, and if they choose to never engage in the former, I have no problem with that - so long as they aren't claiming it's inherently wrong.
I do believe that the claim that it is inherently wrong is bad for all of humanity.  At first I thought Totoro was making that claim, and that's why my response was long and perhaps strongly worded, but she has been pretty clear on that point since then.

I still have some reservations about the definition of ethics and on how the possibility of regret should inform our choices, but I felt we had come close enough to understanding to let it go where it was.

I actually thought this was a good example of well reasoned and reasonable discussion,

which is exactly why I have most of my online conversations, on every topic, on this forum.  It seems to defy the standard of internet making people more prone to disrespect than real life interactions for reasons which are not entire clear to me.

I seriously considered this- I was just concerned that someone would record me or take my image and it would end up on sites all over the place. If there were some certain safeguard against that happening then I would do it in a second. I mean, it's not any more degrading than half the service industry jobs I've had- plus if I'm home I'm pretty much lounging in underwear either way, so...

The only safeguard is that there are over 35 MILLION pages of porn on the interent (and that's only including the ones with the term "porn" specifically in the page, not "nude" or "live cam").  If you then consider the individual images on all of those pages, you are easily going into the hundreds of millions of total images.  So, unless you make a very serious effort to market yourself as a porn star, you are, at most, one or two in a few hundred million.

But someone here said that a coworker did randomly find her online, and made a snarky comment (she didn't say whether or not she had admitted to anyone that she was doing it at all, or whether she put honest info on her camming page making her easier to search - you have the option to claim on your profile that you are from where ever you want, to fudge your age and height and weight, and even to block all viewers from your any city, state, or country, if you are concerned your parents or boss or whatever might be watching your show)
It could happen.
Then again, you could let a partner take a naked picture of you, the two of you break up, and they post it online.  Or someone could be on a cliff filming you on a nude beach.  Meh.  I know in our culture this tends to be a bigger deal for women than men (which is a terrible double standard, and on behalf of all men, I apologize), but unless you are in a very strict religious community, people would get over it, and life would go on.

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2013, 11:36:28 AM »
I'm not sure that Bakari's take on the level of anonymity associated with internet activity is correct.

I recently received an email about fellow I went to high school with.  It was a not very flattering post about him by someone he had dated.  The thing is, we've all been out of high school for more than twenty years, I haven't seen this fellow since then, and this was the SECOND time this had been forwarded to me.  He doesn't even live in Canada anymore.

Even when an image is not attached, identification is a possibility.  Not only from an IP address, but also by someone who knows you figuring it out.  I have an acquaintance who was concerned about some behaviours and discovered her boyfriend's ad on a website for sexual encounters.  There was no picture and no identifiable information except the username, which was quite like another username she knew he used.  She was able to confirm this, and she told everyone about it - including what he had been looking for which some folks found off-putting.  I am also aware of a number of divorce cases in which internet activity and images have been tendered.

In my view, the internet is not anonymous, particularly with recognizable images.  The chances of someone finding these images and forwarding them around to others is, imo, quite high.  The urge to gossip and forward titillating information, while ethically questionable, is quite powerful - whole magazines cater to this.  And you might never know it had happened.

If this bothers you then you might want to take this into account.  If it doesn't, then there really is not risk.  If you view pictures of your genitals the same way you view pictures of your face and don't mind others commenting on them, then you are likely ok here too.

More disturbing, this brings to mind the many nude phone pics and sexting that kids are sending and the fact that these images are often forwarded on.  We have had two public cases in Canada that I'm aware of where this led to bullying that led to the young women taking their lives.  In addition, the teens that forwarded the messages can now be charged with distributing child pornography.

That's actually a good point, although with a caveat

There are no internet searches that can identify individuals by image alone (yet!)
This is a reason to use totally unique and distinct usernames and stage names and similar "information" if you do something you want kept anonymous.
Its not so much that "even when an image is not attached", its that if a name IS attached, identification is possible. 

That being said, it seems likely that the technology to uniquely identify a person by face with software will be perfected in the not-to-distant future, and when it does it might not take long to trickle down to google (or at least some illegal website, since privacy laws might keep google from doing it, but if it exists, people will find a way to use it)

Le0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
    • My Path to Financial Independence in 2014
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2013, 11:45:38 AM »
I'm not sure that Bakari's take on the level of anonymity associated with internet activity is correct.

I recently received an email about fellow I went to high school with.  It was a not very flattering post about him by someone he had dated.  The thing is, we've all been out of high school for more than twenty years, I haven't seen this fellow since then, and this was the SECOND time this had been forwarded to me.  He doesn't even live in Canada anymore.

Even when an image is not attached, identification is a possibility.  Not only from an IP address, but also by someone who knows you figuring it out.  I have an acquaintance who was concerned about some behaviours and discovered her boyfriend's ad on a website for sexual encounters.  There was no picture and no identifiable information except the username, which was quite like another username she knew he used.  She was able to confirm this, and she told everyone about it - including what he had been looking for which some folks found off-putting.  I am also aware of a number of divorce cases in which internet activity and images have been tendered.

In my view, the internet is not anonymous, particularly with recognizable images.  The chances of someone finding these images and forwarding them around to others is, imo, quite high.  The urge to gossip and forward titillating information, while ethically questionable, is quite powerful - whole magazines cater to this.  And you might never know it had happened.

If this bothers you then you might want to take this into account.  If it doesn't, then there really is not risk.  If you view pictures of your genitals the same way you view pictures of your face and don't mind others commenting on them, then you are likely ok here too.

More disturbing, this brings to mind the many nude phone pics and sexting that kids are sending and the fact that these images are often forwarded on.  We have had two public cases in Canada that I'm aware of where this led to bullying that led to the young women taking their lives.  In addition, the teens that forwarded the messages can now be charged with distributing child pornography.

That's actually a good point, although with a caveat

There are no internet searches that can identify individuals by image alone (yet!)
This is a reason to use totally unique and distinct usernames and stage names and similar "information" if you do something you want kept anonymous.
Its not so much that "even when an image is not attached", its that if a name IS attached, identification is possible. 

That being said, it seems likely that the technology to uniquely identify a person by face with software will be perfected in the not-to-distant future, and when it does it might not take long to trickle down to google (or at least some illegal website, since privacy laws might keep google from doing it, but if it exists, people will find a way to use it)

I was able to do this search with your profile picture. But your right that technology doesn't complete exist for the end user yet.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2154
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2013, 12:14:57 PM »
I don't know Bakari.  All it takes is one cam shot transmitted to a porn site and one person who can identify you and forwards this information and so on.

Given the number of porn images one person can view in their lifetime and multiply that by the relatively widespread incidence of internet porn consumption and I think the possibility of losing anonymity is not that low.  Become famous for some reason, and it shoots up astronomically.

Unless society as a whole views this activity as neutral the worry of exposure will not be negligible imo.  Not sure that will happen, but it is a possibility.

Spork

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5747
    • Spork In The Eye
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2013, 12:21:52 PM »
I might also add: facial recognition has reached the "wow, it really works now" stage. 

My personal feeling here is if you can reach the "Meh, I don't care who knows." -- you're ok.  If you really want to keep it secret, the chances are it will leak someday.    Along with the rules of the internet that say "if it exists, there is porn of it" I'll add an addendum:  If you put something out there, somebody will keep a copy of it.   As long as you don't care: more power to you.  I hope you rake in the bucks.

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2013, 12:39:03 PM »
I was able to do this search with your profile picture. But your right that technology doesn't complete exist for the end user yet.


exactly.  I have hundreds of different images in dozens of contexts online, different forums, google products, facebook, my own blog, my old blog, myspace, other people's pictures of me - and all it could find was this here forum.
And you could get lots and lots about me - where I have lived, phone numbers and emails past and present, and plenty of personal stuff, with google and some time.
But unless I tell you my stage name, I will be very surprised if any of you can find the (professionally produced) amature porn I was in 6 years ago

Le0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
    • My Path to Financial Independence in 2014
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2013, 12:55:13 PM »
I was able to do this search with your profile picture. But your right that technology doesn't complete exist for the end user yet.


exactly.  I have hundreds of different images in dozens of contexts online, different forums, google products, facebook, my own blog, my old blog, myspace, other people's pictures of me - and all it could find was this here forum.
And you could get lots and lots about me - where I have lived, phone numbers and emails past and present, and plenty of personal stuff, with google and some time.
But unless I tell you my stage name, I will be very surprised if any of you can find the (professionally produced) amature porn I was in 6 years ago

Someone is going to take this as a challenge. :P unless you sly dog there isn't any porn.

.22guy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 132
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2013, 02:33:23 PM »
I don't judge people for doing what they want to do, but this definitely wouldn't be for me.

warfreak2

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: UK
    • Music by me
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2014, 04:36:39 PM »
Sorry to bump an old thread about something irrelevant, but philosophy, and it's an interesting thread anyway.

Quote
Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law. -Immanuel Kant   
I disagree with Immanuel Kant (and not only on this).
It is good for one person to be a fire fighter.  It would be bad if everyone was.

Choosing to be a firefighter doesn't mean that the person lives according to the maxim "be a firefighter"; more likely, they're living according to some maxim like "do something that helps other people" or "do something you enjoy or are good at, that other people are willing to pay for", which leads themselves to being a firefighter, and does stand up to the categorical imperative.

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2014, 05:47:09 PM »
Sorry to bump an old thread about something irrelevant, but philosophy, and it's an interesting thread anyway.

Quote
Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law. -Immanuel Kant   
I disagree with Immanuel Kant (and not only on this).
It is good for one person to be a fire fighter.  It would be bad if everyone was.

Choosing to be a firefighter doesn't mean that the person lives according to the maxim "be a firefighter"; more likely, they're living according to some maxim like "do something that helps other people" or "do something you enjoy or are good at, that other people are willing to pay for", which leads themselves to being a firefighter, and does stand up to the categorical imperative.

The way you interpret it, I feel it would apply equally well to what I was doing back when this thread was active.

Kind of lost motivation when I started dating someone I was actually excited about.  Not that I think there is any moral or social relevance, but its just how my heart and mind work.  Similar to how I support gay rights, and I have no problem with poly folk, but I happen to be straight, and a monogamist.  The monogamist in me took the fun out of camming once I started being intimate with a real person.

warfreak2

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: UK
    • Music by me
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #80 on: March 18, 2014, 05:50:31 PM »
The way you interpret it, I feel it would apply equally well to what I was doing back when this thread was active.
I agree!

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28476
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2014, 05:56:54 PM »
How much did you make?  And how much per hour was it?
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7292
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #82 on: March 19, 2014, 06:59:37 PM »
SetBahookey, I laughed so hard out loud when I read your post about your experience in the business!   Too funny!!! I say that this type of work is not hurting anyone and if someone enjoys doing it they should.

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #83 on: March 19, 2014, 08:36:16 PM »
How much did you make?  And how much per hour was it?

probably about $50.
Actual "work" time, hmm... maybe 20 minutes (not counting initial set-up)? 
The vast majority of the time I was online, I was just doing my regular workouts that I would have been doing anyway, with the reasoning that I was "building a fan base" (which I was).

TreeTired

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 454
  • Age: 137
  • Location: North Carolina
  • I think we can make it (We made it!)
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2014, 08:51:14 PM »
I would definitely put on some kind of a disguise if I tried this.  Sure hope my wife doesn't see me!!! 

Squirrel away

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1042
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2014, 06:24:03 AM »
I don't see any problem with someone doing this although I wouldn't do it myself, too shy and would need to hit the gym pretty hard lol.


The_path_less_taken

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #86 on: June 24, 2015, 10:53:32 AM »
Quote
I think of it as being the same as ANY employment.  You are renting the use of your hands and mind to your employer/clients, because they are paying you to do something that you wouldn't be doing otherwise.  If you, say, write code, you are using your body - your hands - to type for someone else, and they are paying you for it.  You are renting your body.  A masseuse or physical therapist, or even a doctor, is using their body to touch other people in a way that makes them feel better, and getting paid for it. 
I believe the only thing that separates literally any job from prostitution is moralizing against unsanctioned sex.
I'm not suggesting that this particular critique, or Totoro personally, is using the top-down rule driven "morality" of religion, but I think that ultimately this entire concept originates from attempts by religious and civil authorities to control individuals by controlling sexuality.  It stems from a complex societies need to have a system of property and power distribution across generations which requires knowledge of paternity, which, thousands of years before birth control, could only be achieved by banning all sex outside of (religious or government sanctioned) marriage.  Its been driven into the collective cultural consciousness for so many generations that now even secular humanists tend to accept the premise without question, much as a fish doesn't notice the water it's swimming in.

I won't go to much further than that, I've written about it extensively: http://biodieselhauling.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-oldest-profession.html



1+ for the above. And I applaud your bravery: this would not be something I could/would do.

But I did briefly take a phone sex job years ago (curiosity/and the ability to work from home) and I was astounded at how much of it was guys just wanting to talk to a non-judgmental woman.

Probably about 25% of the regulars just wanted to chat "So, are you going hiking with your dog today?" or "God my boss is a moron...." kinds of conversations...sometimes morphing into "When a woman says she wants to be friends, how can we still have sex?" types of questions. And some I think called back for me just because I remembered shit: "hey, didn't you say you had a job review coming up: how'd that go?"

I do agree with the people who worry about online postings never going away. Although now that my Dad has passed away...not really concerned about anyone else's opinion on that.

And while it is 'sad' that people feel that connecting with a webcam model is some sort of interaction, versus connecting with someone out in the real world, I think it's better than nothing.

That said...I often communicate better with you people than with anyone in the real world. If you piss me off, I power down the computer. If somebody is yammering away in one thread, I go to another one.

And some of you have written things that are so beautiful they have made me cry, and made me think, and made me very glad this forum exits.

(and curse the times the damn thing is down!)

Go Bakari! Your love of life is inspiring.


edited to say: for some reason my computer isn't cooperating. the top portion is a quote from Bakari, the bottom portion was my comment...no idea how to reformat it, sorry.

[Mod Note: Fixed quote tags.]
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 11:06:42 AM by arebelspy »

cbr shadow

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2015, 05:06:55 AM »
I just want to say that I'm really impressed with all of your responses, Bakari.  I agree with your viewpoints, although I wouldn't be able to articulate them as well as you have.

Rosy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2654
  • Location: Florida
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2015, 10:15:38 AM »
Sex is a business and love and relationships are not. That is where the distinction lies.

If you've got a nice bod and it turns you on to work out in front of the camera - and it results in easy money for you, why not? In order to be good which brings success you have to enjoy it:) Showing yourself, pleasing yourself and being proud of yourself and your sexy-worthiness.
If you have issues, whether religious, moral, ethical or with your body then don't even entertain the idea, it is not for you. End of story.

Good luck with your sidehustle, Bakari.

 

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2015, 09:53:24 AM »

And while it is 'sad' that people feel that connecting with a webcam model is some sort of interaction, versus connecting with someone out in the real world, I think it's better than nothing.


I know of someone (pretty sure through this very thread?) who met their spouse webcamming.

Quote
That said...I often communicate better with you people than with anyone in the real world.


Was true for me too, up until I met my partner.  Who, incidentally, I was introduced to by a friend I met at... a MMM meetup! 






As it turns out, one or more current partners of someone who may or may not be typing these words right now might possibly have been not only accepting of the idea of me doing it, but willing to join me, and we (or they?) may or may not have found you make a lot more money if its a straight couple than just a solo male, and also that recording and uploading content is much less work (and usually more fun) than live chat, and these hypothetical people may have made over $1000 since I was last on these forums, just with the relatively low paying strictly self-uploaded amateuer stuff, and might be considering the jump to pro-am which pays about 50x more

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4814
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2015, 10:52:17 AM »
I don't have a problem with it at all. As long as you don't care that your images may get out in the public, and whatever repercussions that entail from that (professional, personal). I think this kind of thing is becoming more accepted.

 
When I was in my 20's I had done a couple artist modeling (non-nude) on request. With a sheet, or in underwear. Those two and another (that I turned down) was asked if could do nude. I wanted to, but just too shy. In principal I don't have a problem with nudity, just couldn't do it for myself (yet alone other things Bakari mentioned!). I kind of wish I had some photos of when I was in my prime, but sei la vie.

 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 12:44:14 PM by partgypsy »

biotechgirl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2015, 06:28:08 PM »
This was certainly interesting to find on this site! I admire your bravery for telling us about your side hustle. I just couldn't resist sharing, I'm a sugar baby. That's my side hustle and it is working out for me very well so far. I charge around $300 - $400 a date. Before you ask, NO I don't sleep with them. I'm averaging 10-12 dates a month and I could take on more if I wasn't already working at another job. This could be something else for people to look into. I don't think that Web cam modeling would be for me though.

okits

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11883
  • Location: Canada
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #92 on: July 13, 2015, 07:03:09 PM »
As it turns out, one or more current partners of someone who may or may not be typing these words right now might possibly have been not only accepting of the idea of me doing it, but willing to join me, and we (or they?) may or may not have found you make a lot more money if its a straight couple than just a solo male, and also that recording and uploading content is much less work (and usually more fun) than live chat, and these hypothetical people may have made over $1000 since I was last on these forums, just with the relatively low paying strictly self-uploaded amateuer stuff, and might be considering the jump to pro-am which pays about 50x more

Way to go, Bakari (err... Theoretical acquaintance of Bakari) and partner!  Getting paid, getting, well, um, filmed.  :)

IntoTheCrevasse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2015, 07:51:10 AM »
Reading this thread, I just had to sneak in here. In my mid-20's I worked as a stripper and it was one of the most fun and gratifying jobs I ever had. It was also shockingly tame compared to what most people THINK it is. In response to the "what if my kids did this?" question - I tell my mother everything. So when I became a dancer, I knew I had to tell her. Was she excited for me? No way! Did she want me to stop? Definitely. But she also knew that I was a grown woman. She knows that I'm smart, I'm capable, and I run my life my own way. She trusted me to be safe. Having done it myself, I would have no problems with my own children moving into sex work as long as they were of age (obviously), informed, and safe.

It definitely takes a certain personality and an openness about sexuality to do this type of work. I don't tell everyone that I meet for my own safety and also because not everyone deserves my stories, but I'm certainly not ashamed of it and don't hide it. I've had a lot of jobs (like you Bakari!) and compared to other low-level work, it was much more dignified haha! In short, I recommend it. The money's right!

I've been considering cam work for a long time! Nikki I'd love to hear more about your experiences!

norcalmike

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Santa Cruz , CA
Re: Easy money in your spare time from the comfort of home
« Reply #94 on: August 04, 2015, 12:05:23 AM »
I'm very intrigued by this idea. I could care less who sees me online if you pay me enough. I have no kids so I'm good to go.
Sign me up!