Communications & Tech Discussion Thread #2

[Daley]

If Ting is using Verizon's equipment now, does that mean I need to watch out for GSM vs CDMA?

Not really anymore. It's all about LTE band support these days (LTE is 4G GSM) as T-Mobile's already about shut down all of Sprint's legacy network and Verizon will be shutting off their 3G CDMA network at the end of the year. If you want to use Verizon, you'll just need LTE band 13 on the phone to activate.

Going to try installing new software from your link.

I'd recommend switching carriers before switching firmware, honestly. Explanation as to why the firmware switch is a long shot fix after the next quote. If you want to, anyway...

Read the instructions a couple three times first, make sure you have all the ADB stuff installed to your system. Use the recommended GApps package that Lineage suggests for Android 11, you should be fine. Just download everything in advance before getting started, including a factory OEM image to revert to if necessary (just in case), and do MD5 error checking to make sure the downloaded packages are good. The Pixel phones are some of the easier to flash, honestly. Take your time, read thoroughly (including links), and you should be good... but, if you're uncertain or confused with anything, don't take the risk. At least the factory firmware is Android 11, and it's only 16 months out of date. I've seen worse.

If you want to take this opportunity to part ways from Google being all up in your data, you can always go LineageOS for microG instead. This path requires sacrifices, though.

As far as going to another carrier, if I can't get VoLTE to work on my phone, wouldn't I run into the same problem with them? Apologies if that question is very basic: just not following that part.

Not really, no. The phone has official VoLTE support/blessing on all three networks. This means the VoLTE problem is likely on AT&T/Airvoice's end specifically, and either a problem with the new SIM card (unlikely) or AT&T's IMEI whitelist misidentifying your phone model and refusing to allow for VoLTE provisioning (more likely). You can try the firmware update, but it's honestly a long shot to get things working, given the IMEI is a fixed and immutable number tied to the hardware. Turning off all the wireless network modems but the LTE ones to try and force the phone to provision for VoLTE is a long shot, at best. This isn't to say getting more current and secure firmware isn't a good thing in general for the device no matter which carrier you fall back to, but even if it doesn't work for AT&T, the G011C has LTE band 13, so stuff should just work on Verizon, but I'd do an IMEI check first anyway just to be certain.

[alsoknownasDean]

Are bands 2, 4 and 5 still in widespread use by US carriers? They still seem common enough on 'world market' phones.

Surely they need to have some suitable bands for foreigners roaming on US networks with their phones?

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[Daley]

AT&T's IMEI whitelist misidentifying your phone model and refusing to allow for VoLTE provisioning (more likely).

By the way, this reason quoted right here is why AT&T is such a frustrating mobile carrier now. Whitelists/Blacklists are imperfect at best, and can contain errors with whitelists being far more aggressively prohibitive than blacklists and prone to accidental exclusion. AT&T is using a pretty bog standard IMS/VoLTE provisioning, but they're using IMEI whitelists to dictate who can actually connect to the voice network based on specific phone models, whether the phone can actually support VoLTE calling or not.

The reality of this decision means that even if a Verizon or T-Mobile branded and unlocked or global handset has support for AT&T's major LTE bands and VoLTE support, it may not actually work on AT&T. You'll note, the AT&T approved device list is mostly US flagship phones, US-based "global" handsets, or AT&T exclusive models. Intentionally or not, it effectively behaves as vendor lock-in that kills handset portability between US carriers, and blocks perfectly fine SIM unlocked phones that can and should work on their network from working.

Surely they need to have some suitable bands for foreigners roaming on US networks with their phones?

Like I said, there's a reason why most modern actual global/international handsets are just including LTE Band 13 support now. Verizon doesn't give a crap what phone you bring to their network anymore so long as the phone is SIM unlocked, not on a blacklist, and has support for their near globally exclusive C block Band 13 and IMS provisioning support to activate the SIM.

To kill handset interoperability in an era of what should be near universal handset interoperability here in the US:

-AT&T has restricted VoLTE calling support to an IMEI whitelist;
-T-Mobile has restricted VoLTE calling support through a non-standard implementation that requires software signatures;
-Verizon has restricted VoLTE calling support through the requirement of the phone supporting LTE Band 13, a band exclusive to Verizon in the US.

Of this, Verizon is the easiest to work around for international travel now, and most global flagships are accommodating for it. It also makes Verizon the most third party ROM support friendly, too. The 2020's are gonna go down as the "not the Onion" decade for all the events and twists it's held.

There's supposed to be roaming friendly and interoperability agreements between carriers here for bands 2/4/5 IIRC, but mobile networks are gonna mobile network.

[zolotiyeruki]

Of this, Verizon is the easiest to work around for international travel now, and most global flagships are accommodating for it. It also makes Verizon the most third party ROM support friendly, too. The 2020's are gonna go down as the "not the Onion" decade for all the events and twists it's held.

There's supposed to be roaming friendly and interoperability agreements between carriers here for bands 2/4/5 IIRC, but mobile networks are gonna mobile network.

This surprises me greatly, especially given Verizon's history of blocking any bootloader unlocking on their phones

[Daley]

Of this, Verizon is the easiest to work around for international travel now, and most global flagships are accommodating for it. It also makes Verizon the most third party ROM support friendly, too. The 2020's are gonna go down as the "not the Onion" decade for all the events and twists it's held.

There's supposed to be roaming friendly and interoperability agreements between carriers here for bands 2/4/5 IIRC, but mobile networks are gonna mobile network.

This surprises me greatly, especially given Verizon's history of blocking any bootloader unlocking on their phones

Oh yeah, they still block bootloader unlocking on their branded devices (just like AT&T and T-Mobile does), but there's no software hoop jumping or incomplete whitelist nonsense for non-carrier branded devices to potentially prevent them from working once you get the third party firmware on there. It's a "most third party ROM support friendly" distinction built upon a list of technicalities.

Like I said, it reads like an Onion article: Notoriously restrictive mobile network becomes most friendly towards third party firmware and international travelers by being less restrictive on VoLTE requirements than all other mobile networks so long as your handset supports their exclusive network frequency.

[Done by Forty]

Thanks for all the help, IP Daley. I'm debating switching carriers & porting my  number or just using this excuse to buy a newer-used phone.

I saw a reddit thread saying I could contact my carrier & asking them to update their line provisioning to match my IMEI number...any chance this is worth my time with either Airvoice or AT&T?

[Daley]

Thanks for all the help, IP Daley. I'm debating switching carriers & porting my  number or just using this excuse to buy a newer-used phone.

I saw a reddit thread saying I could contact my carrier & asking them to update their line provisioning to match my IMEI number...any chance this is worth my time with either Airvoice or AT&T?

Don't buy a new phone if you can help it. If the current one is still functional in every way but working with AT&T specifically, it's still got life left. It's more environmentally friendly swapping SIM cards than entire phones. Use it up, wear it out, and choose a provider who'll let you potentially do that if the existing one won't. You can probably go and get a Redpocket new account kit with a CDMA card from Target today. Then you just have to contact Airvoice to get the account info necessary to port your number out.

You can also try to get Airvoice to try and get AT&T to update the line provisioning, but given that hasn't even been on Airvoice's radar with all the support you've gotten from them already...? Last I've heard and understood, the only people who can fix IMEI whitelist provisioning "errors" are support staff helping loudly complaining customers with full-blown AT&T postpaid accounts. Prepaid and MVNO people doing BYOD have pretty much been left flapping in the breeze.

[dang1]

About voice calls: ymmv- in the last couple of months, I’ve averaged about 5 minutes of voice usage (though about 80 GB of data). When I make the rare voice call using a phone number, I primarily, do by my Google Voice number, that uses data. Though, I actually prefer to use Facebook Messenger voice calls- seems like much clearer than VZW and Google Voice

[N]

Daley! You helped me save hundreds, thousands of dollars over the last ten years! Thank you!
I have been using Airvoice pay as you go for my fams 3 lines ( I do the 10/mo and the other 2 pay 10$ about every 90 days)
Airvoice customer service has been atrocious this year, so many problems (expiring sim cards, no answer, websites down, service was down for 5 days for unknown reasons, omg)
Its so cheap though! Right now the website is down, I spent over an hour on hold, theyfinally answered and told me to call back tomorrow)

What is the next best recommendation? Least expensive, least hassle? is there a current guide thread here?

Thank you

[zolotiyeruki]

Daley! You helped me save hundreds, thousands of dollars over the last ten years! Thank you!
I have been using Airvoice pay as you go for my fams 3 lines ( I do the 10/mo and the other 2 pay 10$ about every 90 days)
Airvoice customer service has been atrocious this year, so many problems (expiring sim cards, no answer, websites down, service was down for 5 days for unknown reasons, omg)
Its so cheap though! Right now the website is down, I spent over an hour on hold, theyfinally answered and told me to call back tomorrow)

What is the next best recommendation? Least expensive, least hassle? is there a current guide thread here?

I'm not Daley, but I can contribute an answer.  I agree that Airvoice's customer service has become really bad.  Earlier this year, they were doing some maintenance on their payment systems, right as DW's phone was about to renew.  With the payment systems down, her service was suspended, and they couldn't get it re-enabled until several days later.

Our kids' phones are on RedPocket, one on the $30/year plan, the other on the $60/year plan.  So far, we've had no complaints about their service, and the low tiers are very nicely affordable.

[N]

I'm not Daley, but I can contribute an answer.  I agree that Airvoice's customer service has become really bad.  Earlier this year, they were doing some maintenance on their payment systems, right as DW's phone was about to renew.  With the payment systems down, her service was suspended, and they couldn't get it re-enabled until several days later.

Our kids' phones are on RedPocket, one on the $30/year plan, the other on the $60/year plan.  So far, we've had no complaints about their service, and the low tiers are very nicely affordable.
[/quote]

this happened to me, I was without cell service for 5 days. I was so frustrated. Redpocket doesnt have a comparable 10$ for 90 days thing so Im reluctant to switch, even though airvoice is such a major hassle. but i think I am going to have to. their website is down and the only way to add money to the pay as you go is call, which takes at least an hour, and I pay by the minute on my voip too. I guess 10 years on airvoice at an average of 20$ a month is as good as i could do, and its over.

[Daley]

Heya N, sorry for the slow response. Probably a bit too late at this point, but here it is anyway. I really don't kick around here much anymore.

What is the next best recommendation? Least expensive, least hassle? is there a current guide thread here?

As for my last official advice at this point for the community, @zolotiyeruki basically hit it.

RedPocket. Just RedPocket.

Their pricing is consistent across all networks with 95% of their plans, their plan pricing is competitive with some of the cheapest options out there, and they offer plans on all three major networks. It's the one-size MVNO answer I've always hoped for, because they have enough plan options to cover most people's needs and those options are on all the networks. Something for everyone. Support can be hit or miss occasionally, but mostly due to wait times.

Of those options for you specifically, I'd recommend their $60/year Ebay exclusive plan on the GSMA network as a substitute. Not as cheap, but way way more for the money than what you're getting for PAYGO, what with the 100 minutes, 100 SMS, and 500MB of data you get allotted per month at that price.

If you still don't want to swing the extra $1.67/month/line and want to keep rocking the mobile phone austerity on the AT&T network with some rollover for the unused stuff, H2O Wireless still has PAYGO. Their per minute and SMS charges are half of what you're paying over at Airvoice, plus they offer a 10% discount for autopay, but their support is pretty hit and miss as well. C'est la vie. Price of paying the absolute least amount you can.

But seriously, RedPocket is fine. $5/month is fine. And not having to be stingy with your call time or texting can be nice, too.

Hasty bananas, y'all.

[geekette]

I'm still enjoying Red Pocket, but DH was milking the credit he'd built up over the years with Airvoice's $10/quarter plan. 

Their fancy new website, while it looks pretty, would not allow me to renew his plan on Sunday, and since their customer service is also closed on Sunday, his line was disconnected and the $160+ credit was lost. On Monday I managed to get new login info and get the line reactivated, but had to send an email with a screenshot of his credit and an explanation of what happened.

We'll see if he ever gets his credit back, but he's ticked off enough that he will probably ditch Airvoice soon and go Red Pocket. 

[tj]

Saw on a Bogleheads thread from last year about someone having some frustrations with Red Pocket:

I rarely run out of data on my Red Pocket Verizon 1000 Minutes, Unlimited Texts & 1GB Data plan but did so this month. In the past you could purchase 100MB for $2 or 250MB for $5. Now the only options are 1GB for $10 or 2GB for $20. If you run out of data just before your monthly plan renews this becomes an expensive proposition. The other bad issue is that when you run out of data, you are no longer able to receive texts unless you're on wifi.
Looks like I'll be switching providers when my plan expires in July.

Are forum members here still happy with Red Pocket or have they migrated to somewhere else?

[geekette]

Current plans have unlimited talk/text, and they throttle the data speed after the plan limit. DH has the 1GB GSM plan and his allows an extra 100MB of high speed data for $2 (see attached).  So far he hasn't bumped into the limit, though.

There are different prices now for CDMA (Verizon) and GSM (ATT). I asked about CDMA pricing and the minimum plan is $20/month for 5GB.  Since he's not on a CDMA plan, I don't know what their add on for additional high speed data is.

I'm on Visible for now at $15 for unlimited, but that's running out in a month.  New price is $25.  Not sure what I'll do.

ETA: I forgot they offer annual plans on eBay, and I don't believe they offer the throttled data after hitting the limit, they just cut you off.  Unfortunately, I have no way of telling what their top up prices are since I don't have a plan.  You could try a chat.

[Daley]

Saw on a Bogleheads thread from last year about someone having some frustrations with Red Pocket:

I rarely run out of data on my Red Pocket Verizon 1000 Minutes, Unlimited Texts & 1GB Data plan but did so this month. In the past you could purchase 100MB for $2 or 250MB for $5. Now the only options are 1GB for $10 or 2GB for $20. If you run out of data just before your monthly plan renews this becomes an expensive proposition. The other bad issue is that when you run out of data, you are no longer able to receive texts unless you're on wifi.
Looks like I'll be switching providers when my plan expires in July.

Are forum members here still happy with Red Pocket or have they migrated to somewhere else?

First, they'd only lose MMS, not SMS. Over-length SMS sent as MMS instead of multi-part SMS will do that, or you're using iMessage or a messaging app, there's your problem.

Yes, the RedPocket plans on Verizon no longer have the cheaper high-speed data add-ons, changes on the back-end with deals between MVNOs and MNOs happen... and it's no surprise that Verizon's doing jerk things with their wholesalers after they got control of America Movil's MVNOs. Don't blame RedPocket for this, blame Verizon and the loss of large wholesaler negotiation leverage. After all, RP's still offering the cheaper data add-ons with their AT&T and T-Mobile plans.

However, RedPocket's also changed their plans up enough that you can now get a near identical plan to their annual 1000/unlimited/1GB eBay plan through the website directly at roughly the same price, and that plan has a soft high speed data cap removing any remaining data anxiety for the lower usage set.

However, one of the other easy ways around that is if you can get away with 1GB of data a month, you can get away with even less, and the lower you set your hard limit on your data plan with your phone's data plan settings (and restrict photo/video resolution in MMS settings), the less likely you'll run out prematurely as you'll still have unused once the phone clamps down. Background data's a pig, and if you give the OS an inch, it'll take a mile. My wife uses her phone quite a bit, only has a 1GB data plan with a hard cap, and never used up all her data, because she'll set the hard cap in Android for the month at 500MB. If she "runs out" early, she can still unlock the remaining on the plan for the rest of the month without spending a dime. Somehow, neutering the data plan to half of what it is really slows down the background services, and she rarely has to unlock the remainder (maybe three times in as many years). Either way, it keeps her hard under the limit and never had to buy mobile data.

This said, I've broadened a bit out and no longer just recommend RedPocket anymore... again. I've added US Mobile back to the mix. There's no AT&T options, but they do have cheap T-Mo and Verizon options.