The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Share Your Badassity => Topic started by: Daley on January 15, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
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Welcome to the current discussion of the Son of the Communications Superguide (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-son-of-the-superguide!/).
For the sake of thread sanity, I've learned that it might be best to keep commentary separate from the core guide itself... which is why this is here. If you've got questions, comments, suggestions, or anything else related to the guide? Post it in this thread.
Previous discussion thread can be found here (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-discussion-thread-1/) (locked).
Index
Introduction (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-son-of-the-superguide!/msg230577/#msg230577)
Internet Service Providers (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-son-of-the-superguide!/msg230578/#msg230578)
Cell Phone Providers (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-son-of-the-superguide!/msg230579/#msg230579)
Home Telephone Providers (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-son-of-the-superguide!/msg230580/#msg230580)
Home Entertainment (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-son-of-the-superguide!/msg230581/#msg230581)
Closing & FAQ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-son-of-the-superguide!/msg230582/#msg230582)
The original Superguide (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-the-isp-voip-and-cellphone-superguide/) (locked)
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There seems to be a new player, Lunar Wireless, which gives you free inbound calls and texts, and charged $0.25 per day for outbound usage or app usage. I don't know how what they are offering is sustainable.
https://lunarwireless.com/how-lunar-works
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Would you be bothered by their device requirements?
https://lunarwireless.com/shop
Can I use my existing phone with Lunar?
No. Lunar’s Pay What You Want service relies on proprietary technology, and only works with phones purchased from our shop page.
It looks like this means you must purchase the phone directly from them as well, as opposed to just owning a specific model:
https://lunarwireless.com/terms-and-conditions/
14. 60 Day Limited Warranty.
a. Phones may be in new or refurbished condition upon delivery. The Phone has been adapted by Lunar to include; the App and the corresponding software technology. Regardless of whether it contains a logo or other trademark of a third party, the Phone has been altered by Lunar through the removal of certain original technology and the installation of the App. Lunar, and not any other party, is responsible for the performance of the Phone, the App, and any corresponding software technology.
b. Lunar warrants for a period of 60 days from your date of purchase of the Phone, that the Phone, the App and the corresponding software technology will be fit for their particular purpose. In the event that the Phone, the App and the corresponding software technology do not perform as described within the 60 day warranty period, Lunar will, at its expense and in its sole discretion, do one of the following: (1) replace the defective Phone; (2) perform bug fixes on the App or the corresponding software technology; (3) use commercially reasonable efforts to correct any nonconformity of the Services; or (4) terminate these Terms and provide you up to a full refund for the Phone and any charges paid by you, less the charges for calls, text messages and other features of the App used by you.
And no tethering is permitted:
https://lunarwireless.com/terms-and-conditions/
7. Content and Your Use. You are solely responsible for your use of the Phone, the App, and the Services, and any other individual for which you purchase Phones and Services. Your telecommunications access may be affected by actions of Lunar based upon a customer’s usage threshold (sometimes called “congestion management” or “speed throttling”), and by Lunar in terms of the size of the messages or data that you can send or receive, and the space your Account is allotted. You may not allow anyone else to use the Phone or the App (whether to make a call, send or receive a voice or text message, upload or download content, or whether connected to a computer): (a) for any unlawful purpose, (b) in any way which is, or is intended to be, malicious, fraudulent or hoax (including to the emergency services), (c) to breach the rights of any third party (for example, copyright), (d) to use the Phone as a modem to connect other devices to the Internet, including tethering (e) in any way which may damage or affect the operation or quality of Lunar, the Internet or any other telecommunications system. If you do not comply with any provision of this paragraph or the AUP, you shall be liable to Lunar for all liabilities, claims, and damages, losses and costs (including attorneys’ fees and legal costs) which we may suffer as a result. You must tell us immediately if anyone makes or threatens to make any claim against you because of your use of the Phone and/or the Services.
What happens if Lunar changes their set of phones? Would they require you to purchase a new one? Would your old one, modified by Lunar, be easily resold? I'm thinking they might be able to keep this sustainable by requiring you to buy a new Lunar-refurbished phone every few years.
I know little about these things, but this doesn't sound like such a good deal.
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Wow, I read the T&C and didn't even notice some of those.
I guess it would only really be a cost efficient option for foreigners studying abroad here for a few months.
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Yeah it looks like they charge you on a per-app basis. Looks like they want to nickel and dime you 0.25 a time with each app (0.25 each for Facebook, a web browser, Spotify, Google Maps and a messaging app would add up, then add your bank's app or a news app). It wouldn't be so cheap once you add everything up.
The phones are designed exclusively for use on one carrier and can't be taken to another carrier. That level of vendor lock-in is antimustachian. If the carrier changes their prices or the service no longer suits your needs, rather than just putting in another SIM and continuing on your way, you're required to replace the phone. A significantly better option is for an phone that's either unlocked (or easily able to be unlocked), and can be used on multiple carriers.
Wow, I read the T&C and didn't even notice some of those.
I guess it would only really be a cost efficient option for foreigners studying abroad here for a few months.
I don't even think it'd be a great option for foreigners studying in the US. I know if I went to the US for a few months, I'd be wanting a US SIM to use in my existing phone, not spending hundreds of bucks on a new device (and if I did buy a new device, I'd want to be able to use it back home too).
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There seems to be a new player, Lunar Wireless, which gives you free inbound calls and texts, and charged $0.25 per day for outbound usage or app usage. I don't know how what they are offering is sustainable.
Herring and Dean already nailed it. It's pretty ugly no matter how you slice the service... especially when you consider their "flat data rate" per app per day. Why in the blue blazes would I spend money on a proprietary smartphone, and then spend up to $7.50 a month per app for email, IM client, web browser, GPS maps, etc., especially when I already get all those things for $2 and under 100MB in a month with my own phone now?
They're clearly exploiting the ability to prioritize data and restrict internet access now with this service. Thanks FCC. Forget that noise.
Wow, I read the T&C and didn't even notice some of those.
And, yes... when a deal sounds too good to be true, read the legal boilerplate. This is why I'm so discriminating on what providers get into the guide.
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Speaking of Red Pocket, I bought their $10 sim plus 3 months package in December. Yes, it took several frustrating hours and lots of misinformation and corrections to get it started on their Verizon network, but eventually we got it working.
A couple days later I noticed, though, that my online account said I was paid through 1/11, so I initiated a chat and was told that’s normal and it would automatically renew.
A week ago I got a text urging me to renew, so I chatted and was told again that it would automatically renew, and they would turn off the automatic texts.
Yesterday I got a text urging me to renew. Busy and tired of being reassured, I ignored it. This morning, of course, no service. Yet another chat quickly fixed it, but sheesh! Anyway, it now says my month of service ends 2/11 (free bonus day - W00t), and I’m paid through 3/13, so I think it’s working now.
I tell you, 500 minutes, 500 texts, and 500 meg for $10 is a bargain, as long as renewals go smoothly. Let’s hope!
Aaaand a month later, I check online just to make sure I won't be disconnected in the morning, and my ending date has been reset to 2/21, lopping 3 weeks off my 3 month plan. What the...
After 30+ minutes, a disconnect, reconnect, I'm told they will manually reset my plan tomorrow. It really shouldn't be this hard.
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I've read the Superguide several times but am nearly tech illiterate so hopefully this isn't too dumb a question.
I use Verizon for my flip phone on a grandfathered plan with very little data (250 MB). I can't get a plan with no data. I text and call a fair bit but have 2 issues. We are in the boondocks and the service is spotty. As far as I know, I can't use my flip phone on wifi. And some of my kids activities only use fancy text messages that come through blank.
I think it might be helpful to have a smart phone that could get fancy texts while out and about and be used over wifi as a phone and maybe on the Internet while at home. I still don't think I need data unless txt messages are data as long as I can use wifi. Ditto for voice minutes. I have good wifi at home. I would be ok with getting this as a second number if the price was good. Am I searching for a unicorn?
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Am I searching for a unicorn?
On prepaid with Verizon? Yup. Verizon postpaid is the only Verizon network based plan that offers WiFi calling support for customers, which would require one of the short list of expensive smartphone handsets that supported the feature.
As for the "fancy text messages", those are MMS messages, which does require mobile data to use.
This said? Given you're on a feature phone with a grandfathered plan, I suspect it may be old enough that you're using a pre-LTE, CDMA only handset. The only way to be sure is to know the make and model number of the phone you're currently using. That means that your current representation of reception isn't consistent with what Verizon is actually currently offering. It also may not be as bad on other carriers as you used to remember, either, as AT&T and T-Mobile have been growing out their coverage maps with 4G LTE as well, which might open up some alternatives. I'm happy to check coverage maps for you if you supply a ZIP code in a private message.
It really shouldn't be this hard.
No, it shouldn't. Unfortunate to hear. Also why I caution against multi-month plan purchases.
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It really shouldn't be this hard.
No, it shouldn't. Unfortunate to hear. Also why I caution against multi-month plan purchases.
It was a starter pack - $20 for a sim card and three months of service, so it won't happen again. That said, their customer service is underwhelming.
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It really shouldn't be this hard.
No, it shouldn't. Unfortunate to hear. Also why I caution against multi-month plan purchases.
It was a starter pack - $20 for a sim card and three months of service, so it won't happen again. That said, their customer service is underwhelming.
That seems to be becoming far more common, and goes hand-in-hand with inventive sustained revenue streams. Used to be places like H2O and Red Pocket, despite their lower quality support compared to other smaller independents, was still at least a notch or two above America Movil.
I have to be honest, I believe the MVNO industry may be finally imploding. Enjoy it while it lasts.
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I'm starting to dig into switching plans from Verizon (two of us, 100 a month, easy place to cut and contract is up in November). My biggest issue is finding a CDMA compliant company so I don't have to buy a new phone! Any recommendations? I have a Galaxy S8, and DW has LG G2.
Thanks!
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I'm starting to dig into switching plans from Verizon (two of us, 100 a month, easy place to cut and contract is up in November). My biggest issue is finding a CDMA compliant company so I don't have to buy a new phone! Any recommendations? I have a Galaxy S8, and DW has LG G2.
Thanks!
US Mobile offers Verizon service without roaming with their "Super LTE" plans. There's also Selectel, but their prices haven't kept up with some of Verizon's reduced wholesale prices. Red Pocket has Verizon service as well, but reports from others trying to set service up and use it have shown furthering cracks in their support structure.
It also might be worth running the numbers. You might save more money buying out the remainder of your contract and switching now than sticking things out until November. Have a calculator (http://www.techmeshugana.com/tools/wirelessroi.html) to do that with.
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@Daley Would love your advice.
I currently have a 9 year-old T Mobile flipphone I've been very content with on a grandfathered prepaid plan I spend $25 a year on and use <250 minutes a year. I use Google Voice for most calls/texts from home or mostly use my husband's smartphone when we're out (he uses Google Fi).
However, this winter we moved to a new home where the T Mobile reception is terrible. My husband wants me to get a smartphone so that I can receive wifi calls at home (he especially wants to be able to call me when he's out) + in case of running into trouble when I'm out alone with our son. I am very directionally challenged so having access to maps and things is probably not a bad idea. My husband is very resistant to the idea of getting a landline.
I leave my cell phone off most of the time because I like being untethered from electronic devices, especially if I'm outside. But I don't know how my relationship with my phone would change if I got a smartphone, if I would be drawn into using more apps and things and start using my phone all the time.
Right now what I envision is fairly low usage of minutes and data, but I probably do want to have access to data just in case. I wouldn't want anything like Facebook on my phone, but maybe I would find some other apps actually useful? This is kind of silly, but one friend is always texting me Bitmoji pictures and I want to be able to send some back too? I clearly don't know very much about this.
What would you recommend for a phone and/or plan? Maybe something that I could incorporate pretty well with Google Voice and not feel like I have to have my phone with me all the time?
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@Daley Would love your advice.
I currently have a 9 year-old T Mobile flipphone I've been very content with on a grandfathered prepaid plan I spend $25 a year on and use <250 minutes a year. I use Google Voice for most calls/texts from home or mostly use my husband's smartphone when we're out (he uses Google Fi).
However, this winter we moved to a new home where the T Mobile reception is terrible.
Okay @mushroom, I'm gonna stop you right here, 'cause we need some serious coverage clarification. Thanks to @HarbingerofBunnies, I saw your post in your journal, and between that and your opening paragraph? We gotta put the brakes to this train and determine exactly what is what, and clarify a few things.
Buckle up, this'll be a long one with a lot of information. Read. Re-read. Be willing to ask questions. There will be technical jargon, but don't get lost in understanding the specifics if you don't - focus instead on the clear implications I've made about how these technical details impact you. The most potentially confusing technical jargon will be detailing specific radio frequencies and phone network standards. Bolded parts are basically the meat, everything else describes the why and how.
You say that T-Mobile coverage at your new place is terrible, but you're also using a phone that dates back to their 1900MHz 2G GSM era, maybe with possible 3G UMTS service support on the 1700/2100MHz bands, maybe with 1900MHz 3G as well. I don't know for certain, as I only have a phone age and not a specific model (not that it matters much). It's worth noting that almost all of T-Mobile's 3G UMTS service on the 1700/2100MHz bands has been turned off, with the bandwidth re-farmed out for 4G LTE service outside of a small handful of markets. The same is actively being done with their remaining 3G UMTS 1900MHz service outside of a small handful of markets. This means that outside of a minimum coverage 1900MHz 2G skeleton network they've promised to keep active for the time, there's not much left of T-Mobile's legacy network at this point. That is the tiny network you're using, and barely represents all of the T-Mobile network footprint.
The all-in 4G LTE plan T-Mobile has been unfolding the past couple years has pretty well screwed everyone with a phone older than about three years old and not built specifically (and T-Mobile branded) for receiving all of T-Mobile's new 4G LTE coverage and specifically has LTE band 12 voice support, which pretty much screws owners of nearly every single cheaper unbranded aftermarket, AT&T and Verizon unlocked handset used for voice calling on their network as well. Again, this means your phone is only using a fraction of the T-Mobile network at this point due to aggressive planned obsolescence and network fragmentation. Fortunately, you're not alone in this problem. Now, this doesn't mean that you still can't be right about moving into a terrible T-Mobile coverage area, but this is a very important point to note all the same. You can't determine your current T-Mobile coverage at your new house based on your decade old phone due to a lot of real technical and messy network rejiggering.
Got it? Good. Let's keep going...
Now, you mentioned your husband uses Google Fi. Are you aware that Fi's primary home network is considered T-Mobile, and that as far as Sprint and US Mobile coverage is concerned, they're considered roaming networks? Do you know which network he's primarily using for coverage at your home and in your area? Is he still satisfied with Google Fi and has no desire to leave, or could he be persuaded off to another carrier? These are important questions to ask. We need to determine if T-Mobile coverage at your home actually is terrible, or if it's just your phone; and we need to know how flexible your husband is willing to be to maximize savings for both mobile phones as there could be advantages to going multi-line setup depending on his average usage given how little you use.
Next, let's just complicate things a little further and reference the post that brought you here to begin with. Republic Wireless. Republic used to be an awful proprietary VoIP over data "mobile" phone provider using Sprint's network first two generations of service, now they're just another privacy invasive T-Mobile MVNO offering WiFi calling and a gimmicky data billing model. If Republic's billing model and WiFi calling fallback makes you swoon that much, Google Fi is the superior option, and a second line with Fi will cost about the same as a separate Republic line - and we're not even considering the incredibly terrible idea of just using a data-only SIM to share the data on the existing Fi account, use Google Voice over that data, and run the risk of being royally hosed not being able to call 911 in the case of an emergency; but it is an even cheaper option still if you really want to taunt Murphy and his law and ignore the sound advice of paying for what you need. The only difference is Google's handset selection is a bit more limited, partly because of how many mobile networks they roam onto.
If T-Mo coverage is okay, and you just want/need WiFi calling as well, then that also opens up Ultra Mobile, Ting along with Consumer Cellular (using either of their T-Mobile SIM cards, though Ting and CC are only a good deal with two lines or more), and US Mobile (hopefully finally) going live itself with the feature sometime this year. You'll note, however, that the only MVNOs that offer "broad" WiFi calling support beyond just iPhones... are T-Mobile based - whether they roam or not. Even if you venture off the guide's beaten path, you'll note that even MetroPCS offers WiFi calling, but MetroPCS is owned by - you guessed it - T-Mobile. You noticing a pattern here?
This means needing to buy one of the small assortment of T-Mobile VoLTE Band 12 certified handsets available that also support WiFi calling (http://www.spectrumgateway.com/compatible-phones) if you want better coverage than you got already with any T-Mo MVNO.
So that brings us to the next two questions: How important is WiFi calling to you, and do you understand that WiFi calling with any of these carriers is considered billed as part of your used minutes?
I ask this because you originally were angling for Republic, and you mentioned WiFi calling at home. Clearly this seems to be an important feature for your husband, though it's hardly a necessary one even if a home phone is off the table (even a VoIP based one) so long as your primary mobile carrier provides sufficient coverage in your house. Proper UMA/GAN over WiFi calling support on a phone is a beautiful thing, and a handy thing that I myself love and have used in the past with my trusty rusty Lumia 435, but it is also a pretty unnecessary thing outside of Sprint and T-Mobile coverage maps unless you're deep in the belly of a building or only have 2G GSM voice and data coverage left with T-Mobile's network in your area due to the phone you own. *cough-lumia-435-cough*
We can keep talking plans and options here, but them's some questions and points to ponder that will greatly impact the quality of advice I can share.
My husband wants me to get a smartphone so that I can receive wifi calls at home (he especially wants to be able to call me when he's out) + in case of running into trouble when I'm out alone with our son. I am very directionally challenged so having access to maps and things is probably not a bad idea. My husband is very resistant to the idea of getting a landline.
It's a shame about his feelings on a home phone. There's really cheap ways of integrating GV with VoIP/SIP service and ATA devices such as the Obi200 that even let you still get E911 service.
If you must get a smartphone, it's not difficult to get offline maps for them anymore. No data usage required! Bonus savings.
This said, GPS drivers can frequently be dangerous because they turn off their brains and let the phone's voice prompts drive for them, which additionally diminishes their internal geographic memory and situational awareness. Take the time to actually study the paper maps of your area, learn the basics of navigation, and drive unassisted by GPS whenever possible. When and if you do use GPS from this point, double up on your situational awareness and be willing to ignore its directions and yelling at you if it compromises your safety, which it inevitably will. If my 68 year old mother, who my father gave up on trying to teach her how to navigate decades ago (I might add), can learn to do it oldskool....
Do the world and your family a favor, don't become another GPS zombie driver.
If you do anyway, understand that any cheap Android handset or tablet with a GPS chipset and enough offline storage for maps, even without a SIM card and service, can now act as an offline GPS for a lot cheaper than a dedicated Garmin.
I leave my cell phone off most of the time because I like being untethered from electronic devices, especially if I'm outside. But I don't know how my relationship with my phone would change if I got a smartphone, if I would be drawn into using more apps and things and start using my phone all the time.
Oh, it will change unless you consciously make an effort against it. It will change rapidly, and for the worse. Give the book Irresistible by Adam Alter (http://adamalterauthor.com/irresistible/) a read, look over the attached infographic, and give the thread @Syonyk started on minimizing smartphone usage (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/make-your-cell-phone-boring!/) a read if you really want to go down the smartphone rabbit hole, which you will, if WiFi calling and GPS navigation are non-negotiables.
Right now what I envision is fairly low usage of minutes and data, but I probably do want to have access to data just in case. I wouldn't want anything like Facebook on my phone, but maybe I would find some other apps actually useful? This is kind of silly, but one friend is always texting me Bitmoji pictures and I want to be able to send some back too? I clearly don't know very much about this.
What would you recommend for a phone and/or plan? Maybe something that I could incorporate pretty well with Google Voice and not feel like I have to have my phone with me all the time?
Regarding Bitmoji, don't let it draw you in. Take a couple steps back from the app and ask yourself, "Is this service really necessary to enable effective communication, or is it just some stupid bauble spread through peer pressure that's designed to waste my time and mobile data and datamine the living daylights out of me?" You seem to have a common thread about wanting to keep mostly technology free, stuff like this and smartphones are anathema to that position.
On the table, if you seriously want to keep usage to a stark minimalist situation like you have in the past with a simple phone, is always Truphone SIM (https://www.truphone.com/us/consumer/sim/) (assuming good AT&T network coverage in your area); which if you disable mobile data except for absolute emergencies and MMS, could keep you in line with your past mobile costs and give you both AT&T and T-Mobile coverage as well as potential international roaming, even with a smartphone set with extreme discipline and anti-mobile data prejudice. It would also let you keep using a newer, carrier unlocked domestic 850/1900MHz (such as AT&T's ZTE 223 flip phone, carrier unlocked) or international 850/900/1800/1900MHz (such as AT&T's LG B470 flip phone, again carrier unlocked) 3G UMTS feature phone while still offering excellent coverage. AT&T is looking to be the last network to let you do that with reasonable coverage in this nation as everyone else is slowly shutting down and forcing customers over to 4G VoLTE services for phone calls, which means no more actual weeks long battery life feature phones.
You can always have your Google Voice calls and texts forwarded to the phone. Even if your phone doesn't support a GV/Hangouts app, you can still integrate surprisingly well by using GV's call/text forwarding functions and the callback numbers attached to those texts (https://lifehacker.com/5775534/get-the-most-out-of-google-voice-on-your-non-smartphone). You can also set up GV with a calling-card style autodialer as well for outbound calls where you don't have the contact's "alternate" GV callback number. It's a lot easier with a shorter list of contacts, but still doable. It's how I handle GV contacts on my Windows Phone without skipping a beat.
Of course, beyond that, you're going to be looking at spending at least $10/month most places anymore for a mobile line. At that point and given so many of the existing priorities without other knowledge and a firm entrenching in the Googleplex given both your entanglement with them already... no matter how much I want to scream on a mountaintop and tell you to run away or coach you through a whole mess of options after you answer the above questions, a second line with Fi is probably your best - though not cheapest - choice. That also pretty well dictates what sort of phone to buy as well.
There's two obvious options here, though. One that you'd probably be happy with, and another that your husband would prefer. One will take a $40 or less phone and maybe $30/year to run. The other a $250+ phone and $15/month to run. One that mostly leaves your life unchanged. One that could transform your life. There's middle ground as well, but it just complicates things further. Let me know if I can help or clarify anything, and do let me know what you decide.
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@Daley That was incredible! I was seriously blown away by that; thank you so much!
First, Tmobile coverage: I am basing this on the fact that we live in the same neighborhood as my in-laws and in general it seems like cell reception within our particular neighborhood is not very good (I think something about its geography) and T-mobile is especially bad. My husband had a Tmobile smartphone in the past and was never able to get any signal at my in-laws' when he visited. Since we visit our in-laws a lot, I would probably want to make sure I have either wifi calling or decent reception there, although they do have a landline as a fallback. I should ask them what they use now. I also have a close by neighbor who currently has a TMobile smartphone that mentioned only being able to use wifi calling from home since she gets no cell reception in her house. I am trying to make decent friends with several neighbors, so I wonder if I should value more a not-TMobile network when I'm visiting their houses assuming that I'm not going to be asking about everyone's wifi password. However, outside of our particular neighborhood, I think more generally TMobile within our city is fine.
The main reason my husband has Google Fi is that he loved the international features - we spent multiple months traveling around Europe last year, and I could see us still doing a decent amount of international travel in the future. He had thought about switching carriers when his other phone broke recently, but now that he has a new phone that he bought just a couple months ago, I doubt he's that interested in changing carriers currently. The main reason I hadn't really considered going for Google Fi myself before is the cost of the phone. We have a 2 year-old, and I don't want to have to be nervous about breaking a fancy device, and it seems rather excessive for what I really need and how much I would want to use it. But obviously you're right that over the long run the cost could become reasonable thanks to the cheaper second line. As long as I don't break the phone too early on :P.
I think you are picking up on my personal desire to continue in dumbphoneland. It feels very freeing currently when I see how attached/absorbed other people are with their cell phones, and I could see myself getting drawn into smartphone addiction, although I understand there are measures I could take to prevent that (thanks for your links). I am looking into a change because my husband has trouble reaching me sometimes, whether it's because I get crappy reception when we're out or because I have very little reception at home. So the potential change is mostly because of my husband + me seeing maybe some utility for safety reasons and a tiny bit of being able to use certain coupons and things.
My husband definitely agrees with you about the GPS thing, but he also has a superb sense of direction and can "sniff out" almost anything. I'm fine trying to navigate by map mostly, but I could see 1) having a smartphone with at least offline maps for backup 2) having GPS available when it involves a lot of turns among small roads to a new place being useful for me. I am also a very below average driver with very poor spatial awareness so I imagine GPS could be useful for helping me back once I take a wrong turn - I may or may not have a history of driving for very long periods of time in very wrong directions before.
I am intrigued by the ATA device you mentioned. I know very little about this, but maybe I could convince my husband along these lines. I would love not having to keep a mobile device on at home. I think he's afraid of getting a lot of junk calls at home, especially overnight, but if there's something cheap we can easily control/screen/automatically turn off overnight, I could see convincing him. Can you tell me a little more? Do I need to buy a land phone to go with it then?
However, from what you're telling me, at the very least I should probably upgrade my current phone to something different because of the crappy network :(. But it works and it's soooo cheap and the battery lasts for weeks with my minimal usage! It's a Samsung SGH T139, in case you're curious, which you were correct in assuming is 1900 MHz 2G (not that I actually know what that means :P).
As far as how important wifi calling is to me, obviously if I get a carrier with decent cell reception at home, it becomes less important, but I think it also depends on what kind of plan I have and whether I'm paying for unlimited calling/whether I get charged for wifi calls, etc.
I think the first decision I need to make is whether I really need a smartphone. Part of me really wants to go with a landline type thing and a minimalist phone if I can convince husband, and maybe down the road think about Google Fi, especially if we end up doing more travel and if they start offering cheaper phones? I will definitely keep you updated on what I decide and how I like it. Thank you so much for your detailed advice!!
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@Daley That was incredible! I was seriously blown away by that; thank you so much!
I do what I can to help others with the knowledge and talents HaShem grants me, @mushroom. If there's truly any good there, it's not me.
First, Tmobile coverage: I am basing this on the fact that we live in the same neighborhood as my in-laws and in general it seems like cell reception within our particular neighborhood is not very good (I think something about its geography) and T-mobile is especially bad. My husband had a Tmobile smartphone in the past and was never able to get any signal at my in-laws' when he visited. Since we visit our in-laws a lot, I would probably want to make sure I have either wifi calling or decent reception there, although they do have a landline as a fallback. I should ask them what they use now. I also have a close by neighbor who currently has a TMobile smartphone that mentioned only being able to use wifi calling from home since she gets no cell reception in her house. I am trying to make decent friends with several neighbors, so I wonder if I should value more a not-TMobile network when I'm visiting their houses assuming that I'm not going to be asking about everyone's wifi password. However, outside of our particular neighborhood, I think more generally TMobile within our city is fine.
All these anecdotes bring up a point worth re-iterating that I was not so subtly hinting at. It's a biased sample without much control. You haven't mentioned that your husband has any reception issues with his Fi phone at home or out and about off WiFi. Although it can and does roam onto Sprint and USCC outside of WiFi hotspots, its primary mobile network is T-Mobile. When someone tells me that T-Mobile reception is bad yet Fi (or especially third gen Republic) coverage is fine, that raises an eyebrow with me and inspires the response, "You don't say?"
This clearly leads to the inevitable question given the details. We have successful Fi usage (though that's not a great marker as has been explained why), and given how quickly the VoLTE transition has occurred on their network (especially in light of T-Mobile selling new handsets without this support built into it as little as 20 months ago)... we then have to ask: Of all your T-Mobile based family and neighbors in this neighborhood of yours who have reception problems even if they have WiFi calling support on their handsets - how many of them actually have phones with Band 12 VoLTE (Voice over LTE) calling support?
This is why I felt it important to find out how your husband's voice and network coverage is on Fi, and see which network his phone is defaulting to in the area and at home. For you see, his phone has Band 12 VoLTE support now, and it's not outside the realm of possibility that his previous phone did not. It's also possible that most all your neighbors have terrible T-Mo coverage in the area because nobody you know has Band 12 VoLTE support on their phones either and everyone's trying to crowd onto the overtaxed 2G 1900MHz PCS towers in the area, which has terrible building penetration anyway because of the frequency it utilizes (lower frequency = deeper building penetration, one of the reasons why T-Mo is doing the 700MHz spectrum push with Band 12 VoLTE calling).
Now, if one or more of them has an iPhone 6s or newer bought through T-Mobile and still has problems as well (though even here, it's worth noting that iPhone antennas have some of the worst designs in the industry and most other smartphone models will get reception in places they won't - so maybe we should make that a Galaxy S7 or newer), we'll definitely talk the possibility of bad coverage in the neighborhood, which means needing a primary network that's not T-Mobile... but until we hit that point? I still feel like we're dealing with Schrodinger's cat here existing in a state of quazi-sorta-un-death. I already gave you a link to the list of Band 12 capable handsets, check their phones against it.
If Fi works and T-Mobile is confirmed bad after finally opening the box on the cat and WiFi calling support just has to happen, it's just extra evidence to not go with a non-roaming T-Mo based provider for your area. So long list of cheaper WiFi capable handsets and MVNOs (including even Republic). Hello again Fi and your ridiculously expensive fragile handsets that could actually pay off lifetime chattel slavery debts in some undeveloped countries.
The main reason my husband has Google Fi is that he loved the international features - we spent multiple months traveling around Europe last year, and I could see us still doing a decent amount of international travel in the future. He had thought about switching carriers when his other phone broke recently, but now that he has a new phone that he bought just a couple months ago, I doubt he's that interested in changing carriers currently. The main reason I hadn't really considered going for Google Fi myself before is the cost of the phone. We have a 2 year-old, and I don't want to have to be nervous about breaking a fancy device, and it seems rather excessive for what I really need and how much I would want to use it. But obviously you're right that over the long run the cost could become reasonable thanks to the cheaper second line. As long as I don't break the phone too early on :P.
I think you are picking up on my personal desire to continue in dumbphoneland. It feels very freeing currently when I see how attached/absorbed other people are with their cell phones, and I could see myself getting drawn into smartphone addiction, although I understand there are measures I could take to prevent that (thanks for your links). I am looking into a change because my husband has trouble reaching me sometimes, whether it's because I get crappy reception when we're out or because I have very little reception at home. So the potential change is mostly because of my husband + me seeing maybe some utility for safety reasons and a tiny bit of being able to use certain coupons and things.
*cough cough* Truphone SIM. *cough cough* International roaming. *cough cough* Minimalistic PAYGO service with free inbound minutes and SMS even in the United States. *cough cough* Couples great with Google Voice. *cough cough* Already not T-Mobile coverage. *cough cough* You can use cheap flip phones. *cough cough*
*gasps for air and feels his throat go raspy* Don't make me go all Joe Ross on you here! OOH! OOH! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y5lOlcHHhM)
My husband definitely agrees with you about the GPS thing, but he also has a superb sense of direction and can "sniff out" almost anything. I'm fine trying to navigate by map mostly, but I could see 1) having a smartphone with at least offline maps for backup 2) having GPS available when it involves a lot of turns among small roads to a new place being useful for me. I am also a very below average driver with very poor spatial awareness so I imagine GPS could be useful for helping me back once I take a wrong turn - I may or may not have a history of driving for very long periods of time in very wrong directions before.
Tabling this point, but just a reminder that you could get a "dedicated" junk smartphone for GPS only and not bother with phone service in the thing if you just want to have a GPS handy in your purse/glovebox/etc.
I am intrigued by the ATA device you mentioned. I know very little about this, but maybe I could convince my husband along these lines. I would love not having to keep a mobile device on at home. I think he's afraid of getting a lot of junk calls at home, especially overnight, but if there's something cheap we can easily control/screen/automatically turn off overnight, I could see convincing him. Can you tell me a little more? Do I need to buy a land phone to go with it then?
If you're already using Google Voice, you already know about the call screening capabilities and the do not disturb settings which takes care of the very concerns he has. And actually, there are other VoIP providers that offer similar settings as part of the core service as well (such as VOIPo, VOIP.ms and Phone Power). But we're just talking about an ATA device that's specifically designed to take that GV account off of the computer and onto a physical telephone for home use. Couple it with a cheap cordless Vtech DECT handset or an old house phone you already have kicking around in a closet or drawer, and you've got the ability to make and receive calls over GV in your home without having a computer or smartphone running. All in a $40 box.
Of course, you can't make 911 calls with the service, but if you pay for a second account through say VOIP.ms and set up an account with E911 support, that fixes that problem for about $2 a month and gives you a backup home phone number that you can restrict and whitelist inbound calls from as a fallback for when GV isn't working (it happens) and your cell phone is turned off. You could even set it up as the secondary outbound account and set the Caller ID to the GV number just so you don't confuse others by showing a home phone number that you almost never use. There's also the power outage problem, but that too can be circumvented by attaching it and your home internet and network equipment to an uniterrupted power supply (UPS). More details on these sorts of setups are covered in the unabridged guide on my website.
However, from what you're telling me, at the very least I should probably upgrade my current phone to something different because of the crappy network :(. But it works and it's soooo cheap and the battery lasts for weeks with my minimal usage! It's a Samsung SGH T139, in case you're curious, which you were correct in assuming is 1900 MHz 2G (not that I actually know what that means :P).
I know, I know. The problem is, if you upgrade and stay with T-Mo Prepaid, you run into two problems: 1) Their only "feature phone" is an $80 KaiOS based monstrosity (more on this in a second) with VoLTE and WiFi calling; and 2) Your old SIM card won't work in the new phone for a number of reasons, which means transferring the account to a new SIM card for activation and use will result in you losing your old grandfathered plan.
Then you're stuck with them another year before they'll even let you unlock the thing and take it elsewhere if you even feel inclined to keep it in the first place.
Feature phones are becoming a thing of the past in this country (yet not the rest of the world). Any VoLTE capable "feature phone" on the market now isn't. It's either stripped down Android or KaiOS, and both are huge resource hogs needing ridiculous processing power, and battery life stinks for it. The AT&T models I recommended you are two of the last remaining of the pre-smartphone, oldskool, long battery charge variety. Couple it with a PAYGO MVNO that uses AT&T's network, charges 9¢/min/SMS/MB out, gives you free inbound minutes and SMS, gives you international roaming, and only requires you to use the phone once a month to keep the account and balance active... OOH! OOH! What was that about Truphone SIM again?
As far as how important wifi calling is to me, obviously if I get a carrier with decent cell reception at home, it becomes less important, but I think it also depends on what kind of plan I have and whether I'm paying for unlimited calling/whether I get charged for wifi calls, etc.
Again, look into AT&T coverage. This said, if you already use GV as your primary contact number and you set GV up to forward both to your cell phone (and your cell phone to forward to your GV voicemail box) and have it set up with an Obi200 at home...
What's that? One number? Rings both places? No smartphones or computers needed? Hmmm.
I think the first decision I need to make is whether I really need a smartphone. Part of me really wants to go with a landline type thing and a minimalist phone if I can convince husband, and maybe down the road think about Google Fi, especially if we end up doing more travel and if they start offering cheaper phones? I will definitely keep you updated on what I decide and how I like it. Thank you so much for your detailed advice!!
Good place to start. Obviously, I've laid out options to let you keep doing what you'd prefer while addressing the hubby's "concerns" at the same time. Best part is, it's cheap. Really cheap. And even gives you the same international globetrotter advantages with a tiny little flip phone that he has by paying for his schmancy Google powered pocket supercomputer.
If you get a really cheap carrier unlocked, AT&T/international capable smartyphone to use as your GPS, that also gives you a smartphone backup that you could throw the Truphone SIM card into for the rare occasions where you might actually need a smartphone, just be sure to keep the mobile data off and configured for not to use mobile data in the first place (advice on that here (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/uk-tax-discussion/uk-mobile-phone-advice/msg1885908/#msg1885908)). Just another thought.
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I see a lot of references to Wi-Fi calling.
Surely Wi-Fi calling is a last resort in case no carrier has service. After trying a device with updated network support, wouldn't the next step be to try another carrier?
I do realise that switching between networks is harder in the US than in many other countries, due to the whole CDMA thing and weird unique 3G and 4G bands for each carrier.
Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk
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I see a lot of references to Wi-Fi calling.
Yeah, it's a stop-gap and the fact that it's so popular in the US shows how lousy coverage really is. Not that we need more RF pollution in our lives.
Surely Wi-Fi calling is a last resort in case no carrier has service. After trying a device with updated network support, wouldn't the next step be to try another carrier?
That's normally how it should work.
I do realise that switching between networks is harder in the US than in many other countries, due to the whole CDMA thing and weird unique 3G and 4G bands for each carrier.
And it's only getting worse with LTE and the push by everyone to shut down both CDMA and the older pre-LTE GSM networks here. Yay fragmentation! Yay expensive phones with crappy antennas trying to handle too many frequencies! *sigh* 5G rollout and expansion into millimeter wave territory is where I'm calling it quits with all this meshugas. It's just getting absurd, and rapidly turning into a liability and quagmire. When that time comes around? If you need me, I'll probably be in my cave eating twigs and bark, ranting about the lobotomized "magic people" and their enslavement to their glowing bricks.
I'm kidding.
Maybe.
Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk
Now, Dean, you know you can turn that off. :p
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US Mobile offers Verizon service without roaming with their "Super LTE" plans. There's also Selectel, but their prices haven't kept up with some of Verizon's reduced wholesale prices. Red Pocket has Verizon service as well, but reports from others trying to set service up and use it have shown furthering cracks in their support structure.
It also might be worth running the numbers. You might save more money buying out the remainder of your contract and switching now than sticking things out until November. Have a calculator (http://www.techmeshugana.com/tools/wirelessroi.html) to do that with.
Thanks for the tips! We can't get out of our plan until November (very cost prohibitive), but we will probably go to US Mobile. For both of us it would save us about 30 bucks.
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Daley, thanks for your feedback!
I broached the subject this morning with my husband, and the first conversation did not go well. But that doesn't mean that we can't have another conversation! I think he thinks I'm being weird and difficult and stubborn (which, ok, maybe I am) by going through all these convolutions to avoid a smartphone.
Dean, I think another advantage of Wifi calling I haven't mentioned before is that we do a fair amount of camping, especially out West in rural areas that just don't get great cell reception period. So it is nice when you can get wifi access in a ranger station or some such once in a while to make calls. But yes, I understand that this should be a relatively small point compared to daily usage. We were nomadic on a prolonged road trip for most of 2016 so this was more relevant then, but husband especially valued wifi calling then and while we were abroad.
Daley, I asked husband about the network he's on and he hasn't really monitored it. When he looked at his phone at home today, it showed 2 or 3 bars on the "Fi Network" which I assume is probably T-mobile, but I don't know if it's obvious when he's roaming or not. I do recall that he's used Bluetooth to make calls within the car in our neighborhood without a problem, so I'm guessing that I would be fine with TMobile on a 12 band volte phone. There's been a few days here and there when he seemed to have problems with dropping calls, but it's mostly been fine. This was a while back, but when he was on Republic Wireless at our in-laws years ago, I seem to recall he could only be on the wireless connection and wasn't getting a cell signal there. But like you said, the big difference may be having a volte capable phone. You've convinced me that TMobile on a volte phone is probably fine here.
Speaking of volte phones, it pained me to see the prices on the link you sent on the TMobile website. I am clearly living in my own little lalaland after spending less than $20 on my current phone many years ago and since my last several computers have all been under $150.
Husband is resistant to me going for Google Fi since the upfront cost of the phone is so high. I probably agree.
Re: ATA device - does it take up any bandwidth when calls are not coming through? We've been having problems with slow internet speeds and bluetooth interference with our sound speaker, so my husband is suspicious of adding yet another device, but honestly, I think the main issue is that we're on the overcrowded 2.5 MHz and we need to switch to 5 MHz except my current computer does not support it (which I need to replace ASAP anyway because it's literally falling apart with the screen separating from the keyboard and I can't even close it. But I digress).
What I'm currently thinking if I can convince husband:
1. Get an Obi 200 that solves the immediate problem of lack of home reception.
2. Take my time in eventually transitioning to a different relatively cheap phone with better coverage. I'm not in a rush since I have plenty of minutes on my current phone and it works fine for me, especially once we get the home problem solved. A smartphone just for GPS coverage in the car is very intriguing, but unless it's very cheap, I think it may make more sense to just buy a new phone that includes GPS to keep things simple. I'm inclined to go for a fairly cheap smartphone and a fairly minimalist plan (huh? Did you say something about a Truphone whatsit? ;) You might need a drink of water. :P) If not, I might go for the ATT flipphones you recommended.
Thanks again for all of your very helpful advice!! I have a lot to mull over. By the way, on your website the link to your Amazon shop was broken - do you have a referral link for me to use if I buy off Amazon?
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I broached the subject this morning with my husband, and the first conversation did not go well. But that doesn't mean that we can't have another conversation! I think he thinks I'm being weird and difficult and stubborn (which, ok, maybe I am) by going through all these convolutions to avoid a smartphone.
Are they really, convolutions, though? ;)
We're really not talking a huge change to avoid a smartphone, just the addition of what would basically be a free house phone outside of equipment costs that when combined with the cost of a "new" flip phone, would still cost less than a new smartphone, not go as obsolete as quick, be more robust around children, and yield a much lower recurring cost with little change in your daily routine while increasing your contact-ability. That seems like a win everyone can get behind!
Daley, I asked husband about the network he's on and he hasn't really monitored it. When he looked at his phone at home today, it showed 2 or 3 bars on the "Fi Network" which I assume is probably T-mobile, but I don't know if it's obvious when he's roaming or not. I do recall that he's used Bluetooth to make calls within the car in our neighborhood without a problem, so I'm guessing that I would be fine with TMobile on a 12 band volte phone. There's been a few days here and there when he seemed to have problems with dropping calls, but it's mostly been fine. This was a while back, but when he was on Republic Wireless at our in-laws years ago, I seem to recall he could only be on the wireless connection and wasn't getting a cell signal there. But like you said, the big difference may be having a volte capable phone. You've convinced me that TMobile on a volte phone is probably fine here.
If we're talking old Republic Wireless back when they were trying to do their VoIP+Sprint hybrid monstrosity, this adds another check to the T-Mobile is probably fine list, because Sprint really hasn't expanded their network much over the years, just refarmed bandwidth. There's a way to dig into the deep deep settings of an Android phone to know what network you're actually on, but it might be easier to just check using Signal Spy (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.novvia.fispy) (caution, adware) just so you know.
At this point, I'm figuring either your T-Mo 700MHz LTE coverage is fine and that's what Fi is primarily using, or you live in USCC territory and somehow they're the dominant player in your region. As someone who lives in a USCC region and seen how "dominant" their network is outside of rural BFE territories? I'm not holding my breath on this one.
Speaking of volte phones, it pained me to see the prices on the link you sent on the TMobile website. I am clearly living in my own little lalaland after spending less than $20 on my current phone many years ago and since my last several computers have all been under $150.
Husband is resistant to me going for Google Fi since the upfront cost of the phone is so high. I probably agree.
Yeah, it's gotten pretty ridiculous. The market is charging the greatest price the people will tolerate, and conditioning them to keep doing it every 18-24 months. Capitalism!
It's a real shame Windows Mobile is on its way out. It's still a great platform, and still better than Android or iOS, IMHO, as it's a smartphone designed for people who want a communications tool instead of a toy. I paid $18 used for my Lumia 435 nearly two years ago, and I will keep using it until I can't (fortunately, I'm in one of the rare T-Mo markets that didn't get the 700MHz LTE expansion, so we still have decent 3G coverage here on the 1900MHz PCS band, and we don't travel out of state often). The wife feels the same way, partly because it's played better with her work's Outlook mail server than any other phone she's owned - including Android. They both have WiFi calling capability with T-Mo, and both run Windows 10. It will be a sad day that we have to give these things up. They've been little tanks.
The problem is, regarding Fi phone pricing? Any phone that you want if you're doing a T-Mobile MVNO is going to be that way because of Band 12 VoLTE and WiFi calling support. The cheap phones are terrible, so you need the pricier ones to not stink at their primary function of voice calls, and Android is just now catching up the past three years or so hardware-wise to properly handle these technologies without choking on it (VoIP technology on Android used to be awful). So in reality, they're not that much more expensive.
UMA/GAN and VoLTE spec are pretty old. Really old, especially with regard to WiFi calling. Yet, we're just now seeing "mainstream" adoption? Like I said, Windows Mobile? (*tips a 40*) Worked for years with this technology with phone hardware that's gutless by today's standards. Blackberry? (*tips another 40*) Same. Nokia Symbian? (*tips one last 40*) Ditto. UMA/GAN (WiFi calling) goes back over a decade to the finalized 3G standard in 2005. VoLTE may not have been the dominant approach to voice with the initial 4G spec, but it was expected given 4G required voice traffic to be VoIP packet based in the first place, and has been in service for five years now.
What I'm saying is, in addition to simplifying "support" on Republic's end, despite the fact that their T-Mo service would technically work with any T-Mobile certified WiFi capable phone, with or without LTE band 12? They narrowed the supported phone list down to the ones that don't stink as much and can still get voice coverage. They're at least good for something in knowing what smartphones you should probably be looking at if you want any sort of decent handset on T-Mobile's network. As it is though, there's only about 37 Android handsets currently available that work with T-Mo's current network anyway that are billed as even being able to support WiFi calling now, the rest are iPhones (which have WiFi calling crippled and won't work on T-Mo MVNOs), a lone "feature" phone, and one lone Windows Lumia 640. Told you T-Mo screwed their customers over here.
I may dislike doing business directly with AT&T to the point that I've personally blacklisted them in my life, but there's a reason why I've been steering people to AT&T MVNOs for the most part. They're the least terrible mobile network operator in this country right now and the easiest to keep hardware costs low with for the time... and that's saying a lot.
Re: ATA device - does it take up any bandwidth when calls are not coming through? We've been having problems with slow internet speeds and bluetooth interference with our sound speaker, so my husband is suspicious of adding yet another device, but honestly, I think the main issue is that we're on the overcrowded 2.5 MHz and we need to switch to 5 MHz except my current computer does not support it (which I need to replace ASAP anyway because it's literally falling apart with the screen separating from the keyboard and I can't even close it. But I digress).
The ATA is a hard-wired network device, no wireless bandwidth necessary.... not that it'd use much even with an active call. 56kbps is technically plenty for a VoIP call so long as latency isn't an issue. If you can successfully make a GV call from your laptop, you'll be fine.
What I'm currently thinking if I can convince husband:
1. Get an Obi 200 that solves the immediate problem of lack of home reception.
2. Take my time in eventually transitioning to a different relatively cheap phone with better coverage. I'm not in a rush since I have plenty of minutes on my current phone and it works fine for me, especially once we get the home problem solved. A smartphone just for GPS coverage in the car is very intriguing, but unless it's very cheap, I think it may make more sense to just buy a new phone that includes GPS to keep things simple. I'm inclined to go for a fairly cheap smartphone and a fairly minimalist plan (huh? Did you say something about a Truphone whatsit? ;) You might need a drink of water. :P) If not, I might go for the ATT flipphones you recommended.
Sounds like a plan. Just be careful, Android smartphones and PAYGO data frequently don't mix well unless you leave mobile data turned off all the time. It's like they're designed to make you spend more money on phone service. The nicest smartphone platform I ever dealt with on restricted mobile data has been Windows Mobile... but even then, it is still about 50MB/month leaving data on. Nothing but old feature phones will keep your data usage low to non-existent without turning data off entirely. Also, get used to plugging in a smartphone nightly if you do.
Thanks again for all of your very helpful advice!! I have a lot to mull over. By the way, on your website the link to your Amazon shop was broken - do you have a referral link for me to use if I buy off Amazon?
I missed taking down one of the links? D'oh! Amazon discontinued the aStore program a few months back. I'm strictly donation these days, and have seriously considered even just taking that down given how few donations I've gotten the past couple years. It's really never been about the money so much as just the helping.... not that the funds aren't deeply appreciated.
Glad to help all the same, though! Any kindness at all in return, even just faint praise, is a gift.
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Thanks again for your feedback, Daley!
I bought a computer today so we can switch to 5 MHz wifi.
I'm planning on buying the Obi 200 today as well (convinced hubs :P).
Once I use up my TMobile minutes on my current phone, I'm guessing I will probably go for an ATT flipphone + Truphone SIM. If I do go down the smartphone path, is it sufficient if the phone specs mention using LTE band 12 or do I need to check anything else to make sure I could use TMobile's 700 MHz?
Thanks for all your help!!
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Thanks again for your feedback, Daley!
De nada.
I bought a computer today so we can switch to 5 MHz wifi.
Tell me you didn't buy a whole new laptop just to get 5GHz WiFi reception... *cringes* An $18 USB adapter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MY7PL10/) could have done the same thing.
It's also worth doing WiFi site surveys, as you can ensure selecting channels with lesser interference that way, even in the 2.4GHz frequency. You'd be surprised how many people run the default channels 6 or 9 on their router in your area. Channel range 1-4 and 11 can usually be pretty quiet in most neighborhoods for WiFi traffic standards in the US.
I'm planning on buying the Obi 200 today as well (convinced hubs :P).
Hooray!
Once I use up my TMobile minutes on my current phone, I'm guessing I will probably go for an ATT flipphone + Truphone SIM. If I do go down the smartphone path, is it sufficient if the phone specs mention using LTE band 12 or do I need to check anything else to make sure I could use TMobile's 700 MHz?
Here's the thing, LTE is fragmenting networks again, and it's killing handset portability. Shop phones for the network you plan on using to ensure best compatibility. The flip phone? AT&T network. Truphone primarily uses AT&T in the US. Don't worry about T-Mobile compatibility on any smartphone unless you plan on getting T-Mobile based service. Honestly, I'd encourage you to stick with AT&T MVNOs if you do get a smartphone, which really opens up the field. Most phones from Verizon, Sprint and T-Mobile when carrier unlocked should work fine on AT&T, but will have problems going to other networks.
Thanks for all your help!!
Yup.
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Tell me you didn't buy a whole new laptop just to get 5GHz WiFi reception... *cringes*
Haha, don't worry, it's the 5 GHz thing + I can't even close this laptop anymore because the case is cracking so much and coming apart from the screen + I don't have enough space for a Windows 10 update on my tiny hard drive which I know there are workarounds for but there are also plenty of other reasons I need a new laptop anyway :P.
Thanks for the clarification on compatibility with a particular network - that makes sense.
Edit: I forgot to add, we have changed channels before and I think we're on 11 now, but we still have issues with slow speeds on what should be perfectly fine download speeds (25 MBps).
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If you got another smartphone today, what would you choose? It sounds like the window is closing(/closed depending on geography) on your current Windows phone. SWMBO’s OnePlus One is about to give up the ghost (planned obsolescence for the lose) and I’m about to turn in my company phone along with my laptop and badge next week, so there may be one or even two phone purchases in my near future. Ideally I’d like something small and with vanilla Android or at least Cyanogen-friendly but your point about Android guzzling background data is well taken.
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If you got another smartphone today, what would you choose? It sounds like the window is closing(/closed depending on geography) on your current Windows phone. SWMBO’s OnePlus One is about to give up the ghost (planned obsolescence for the lose) and I’m about to turn in my company phone along with my laptop and badge next week, so there may be one or even two phone purchases in my near future. Ideally I’d like something small and with vanilla Android or at least Cyanogen-friendly but your point about Android guzzling background data is well taken.
I actually posted an answer to another thread just a couple days ago covering this very topic, so I'm just going to start by quoting that.
Very small and replaceable battery are two incredibly rare things these days, you almost need to pick one. Same with unlockable loader. Looks like you're dealing with a GSM carrier, so I'll be dealing with US GSM model numbers.
The phones I've been recommending lately "fitting your dimensions" have been the G4 Play (unlocked XT1607) and E4 (unlocked XT1768) as they tick off everything from your list but size. Both will be slightly bigger/around the same size as the Moto G 4G (first or second gen) you're already using, unless you actually meant Moto G4 in which case they will be a bit smaller. Yeah, handset size is getting ridiculous, and it's partly due to antenna band proliferation support, battery life, and a vicious feedback loop between battery life and screen size.
Now, this is an important point. Are you dealing with AT&T or T-Mobile as your primary carrier with your desire to get an LTE handset? If AT&T, you should have the freedom to do what you want and everything should be hunky dory. If T-Mobile and you're needing LTE to get back voice coverage, it's important to know a couple things. 1) Without 700MHz LTE band 12 VoLTE "certified" calling support with T-Mobile, you'll only get voice calling support with any phone on their remaining legacy 2G GSM network in most of the country. 2) Because of point one, they've basically locked out third party ROM support. Flash a third party ROM? Lose VoLTE calling. Just some points of academic curiosity.
As much as I loathe AT&T and won't do business with them directly anymore, they're honestly the least terrible carrier in the nation right now... which is saying something. If you're partly doing this (beyond replacing a fried device) for improved T-Mobile voice calling support, consider porting your number to an AT&T MVNO during your device change if you'd like to keep your handset freedom.
You'll note I'm primarily dealing with GSM service with these recommendations.
I know the two of you are moving back stateside here pretty soon (especially given your employment status), but support there in the UK could still be important at least short term, will it not? I don't know who you're using currently, so I don't know what LTE band support you really need. This said, the unlocked versions of those specific model numbers at least give you 2G GSM reception on both 900 and 1800MHz bands as well as 3G UMTS/HSDPA access on 900 and 2100MHz bands, and 4G LTE bands 1 (2100), 7 (2600), 8 (900) common between the two, and the G4 Play having LTE band 3 (1800) versus the E4 having band 38 (2600). This only leaves LTE bands 20 (800), 28 (700) and 32 (1500) wholly unaccounted for with network support, so hopefully there aren't any glaring coverage holes no matter who you're using. This said, the G4 Play looks to have broader LTE support in the UK given band 3 inclusion.
The G4 Play looks like the better international phone, but if you're potentially wanting/needing CDMA support stateside with Verizon or Sprint, you'll want to go with the E4 despite the loss of LTE band 3 there in the UK. Included all observations just to cover all potential bases here.
Of course, all the caveats with LineageOS (Cyanogen) and T-Mobile here in the US with VoLTE band 12 support remain true, so your greatest flexibility stateside will probably be AT&T first, Verizon distant second.
Regarding Windows 10 Mobile specifically?
Yes, I'm currently using the Lumia 435. Yes, it's lost a lot of coverage on T-Mobile. More importantly, it's in its twilight years. I always advocate others buy carrier unlocked, but our Lumia 435 purchases were a do as Daley says, not as he does situation. Given we were already on T-Mobile, we didn't bother getting carrier unlocked models partly for budget reasons, and of course we have no way to carrier unlock because of it - and honestly, we're kind of stuck on T-Mo anyway for similar budgetary requirements which means dancing their game. The phones are still getting security patches for another month or so for the Creator's Update on Fast Ring, but after that, there's no easy way to force Fall Creator's Update to carry us through to the end of 2019 without potentially sacrificing even more storage for page filing on an already really tiny phone. As such, we may actually be upgrading to T-Mo Lumia 640's here shortly, despite even the end of life, given we were given the opportunity to buy two beautiful A grade used models for really cheap - but again, T-Mo locked. If they work well (and I plan on putting them on Fall Creator's Update via Fast Ring and hacking them to enable Continuum), we may just spend the money on picking up a couple actual Continuum enabled handsets if we can get them cheap enough and retire the desktops.... my only concern is a lack of Night Light support.
Why stay with a platform that's winding down? We have reasons. Some known, some unknown. For all the Microsoft and Windows Phone haters out there who complain about loss of privacy, etc... I just want to point out that the sandboxing of apps on W10M is probably one of the reasons why the app gap. App developers couldn't datamine the crap out of your handset like they could iOS or Android.... and we're seeing the aftermath of that boondoggle unfolding as we speak. I may have an app gap, I may be stuck with a crappy Edge mobile browser, I may need to use a Nextcloud/Collabora Online subscription for reasonably priced office apps without using Google or Zoho that I still can't use offline (though given we're looking to leave Dropbox anyway), I may lose security updates in less than two years, but at least it's not quite as third-party privacy-invasive-friendly as Google or Apple are.
That said, I am such a hypocrite. I hate the handset turnover I've dealt with the past few years. I'm also getting sick of having technology in my life. Romans 7:15 (http://biblehub.com/romans/7-15.htm) keeps coming back into my head when I deal with this stuff anymore.... of all the things to have going through my head going into Passover season. Heh.
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I’ve had the Moto G Play (4th gen) for a bit over a year and been reasonably happy with it, especially for the price. Camera isn’t that great but in every other smartphone respect it subjectively beats my previous phone, which was a HTC One (first gen).
Works well on AirVoice.
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What about the Moto G5 Daley? The G4 Play is getting on a bit.
IIRC the Moto G5 has a replaceable battery, but the G5 Plus and G5S/G5S Plus do not. My mum's recently bought a G5S to replace her Nexus S.
If that doesn't matter hugely, the new Nokia range looks nice too, and runs fairly plain Android.
Personally I didn't mind having to undo a couple of screws and slide the screen off to get to the battery (like my old iPhone 5), but repairing the HTC 10 I've got now would be a royal nightmare, because the screen is glued to the frame (sigh). I'll get it repaired by a shop when needed, I won't try DIY on the thing. That seems all too common with many Android devices lately.
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I’ve had the Moto G Play (4th gen) for a bit over a year and been reasonably happy with it, especially for the price. Camera isn’t that great but in every other smartphone respect it subjectively beats my previous phone, which was a HTC One (first gen).
And they're even cheaper used now!
What about the Moto G5 Daley? The G4 Play is getting on a bit.
IIRC the Moto G5 has a replaceable battery, but the G5 Plus and G5S/G5S Plus do not. My mum's recently bought a G5S to replace her Nexus S.
If that doesn't matter hugely, the new Nokia range looks nice too, and runs fairly plain Android.
Personally I didn't mind having to undo a couple of screws and slide the screen off to get to the battery (like my old iPhone 5), but repairing the HTC 10 I've got now would be a royal nightmare, because the screen is glued to the frame (sigh). I'll get it repaired by a shop when needed, I won't try DIY on the thing. That seems all too common with many Android devices lately.
Yeah, and it's one of the reasons why no matter how much nostalgic affection I may have for the brand Nokia, HMD's Android phones are, well... it's no that they're not nice phones, but their bootloaders are locked down tight, where as Motorola will actually let you boot unlock. Granted, if they truly keep to their word and do timely OS updates, that's great! But, these are still new phones, and we don't have a deep history with how long HMD will actually keep pushing updates and what defines "life of the phone" outside of promises. Of course, there's still the battery issue, too. Built-in and buried under panels and screws are not user-friendly replacements, and when the battery is buried under screws, the OEM replacements (outside of pulled used) usually aren't available to us mere mortals unless we have an authorized repair shop. Given how dodgy aftermarket can be sometimes on quality and swelling, I'd rather have a battery that'd pop the back of the phone off than break the mainboard due to installation if it's shoddy. So, I really don't have a whole lot of objections to the new Nokias, they're fine near vanilla handsets, but they fail my two most useful metrics for longer support life.
This said, any Moto phone that has a user replaceable battery is fine for both that and their officially unlockable bootloaders so you don't have to resort to exploit shenanigans.... couple that with my preferences towards smaller handsets for better battery life and easier carrying... things kinda make sense with my recommendations.
Anyway, sunset is rapidly approaching here. See you all on the flippity.
Chag Sameach and Shabbat Shalom! May Messiah Yeshua bring His people peace, healing and restoration in the days ahead and may Passover be joyous.
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Yeah, and it's one of the reasons why no matter how much nostalgic affection I may have for the brand Nokia, HMD's Android phones are, well... it's no that they're not nice phones, but their bootloaders are locked down tight, where as Motorola will actually let you boot unlock. Granted, if they truly keep to their word and do timely OS updates, that's great! But, these are still new phones, and we don't have a deep history with how long HMD will actually keep pushing updates and what defines "life of the phone" outside of promises. Of course, there's still the battery issue, too. Built-in and buried under panels and screws are not user-friendly replacements, and when the battery is buried under screws, the OEM replacements (outside of pulled used) usually aren't available to us mere mortals unless we have an authorized repair shop. Given how dodgy aftermarket can be sometimes on quality and swelling, I'd rather have a battery that'd pop the back of the phone off than break the mainboard due to installation if it's shoddy. So, I really don't have a whole lot of objections to the new Nokias, they're fine near vanilla handsets, but they fail my two most useful metrics for longer support life.
This said, any Moto phone that has a user replaceable battery is fine for both that and their officially unlockable bootloaders so you don't have to resort to exploit shenanigans.... couple that with my preferences towards smaller handsets for better battery life and easier carrying... things kinda make sense with my recommendations.
Anyway, sunset is rapidly approaching here. See you all on the flippity.
Chag Sameach and Shabbat Shalom! May Messiah Yeshua bring His people peace, healing and restoration in the days ahead and may Passover be joyous.
Didn't realise that they had locked bootloaders. They look like such nice devices and well priced too.
I'm really hoping Project Treble improves things wrt Android updates. After all, a flagship Android phone (even a Nexus/Pixel) is lucky to get two major OS updates, yet even my brother's iPhone 5S still runs the latest iOS with up to date security updates. I've had experience with buying 'genuine' batteries (and replacing the screen) for my old LG G3, unfortunately there's too many counterfeit parts for those.
I'm hoping things improve in Android land, because at the moment the iPhone is almost looking like the 'least bad' option now for support/repairs. At least the batteries and screens installed at the Genius Bar are guaranteed to be genuine.
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Didn't realise that they had locked bootloaders. They look like such nice devices and well priced too.
I'm really hoping Project Treble improves things wrt Android updates. After all, a flagship Android phone (even a Nexus/Pixel) is lucky to get two major OS updates, yet even my brother's iPhone 5S still runs the latest iOS with up to date security updates. I've had experience with buying 'genuine' batteries (and replacing the screen) for my old LG G3, unfortunately there's too many counterfeit parts for those.
I'm hoping things improve in Android land, because at the moment the iPhone is almost looking like the 'least bad' option now for support/repairs. At least the batteries and screens installed at the Genius Bar are guaranteed to be genuine.
Yup, most Android phones have locked bootloaders, that's why you have to root and exploit your way into installing aftermarket with so many. It's why I almost exclusively recommend most of the Moto line if you want to run Android now, because they open up the path to unlock it legitimately.
If Treble improves anything, it'll be a long while before we see and realize it, it'll probably only mostly be seen on the super expensive new handsets, and it's still dependent upon the OEM giving enough of a toss to actually release more updates and not try to sell more phones... but that might negatively impact profit margins. Better to waste resources and cook in planned obsolescence to keep making money.
Now, you mentioned HMD/Nokia, I mentioned HMD claiming to update their phones, and you brought up Treble. I'd just like to make an observation here - none of the Nokia Android handsets are Treble compliant. Not one currently on the market. Just an observation.
I know of the remaining standing smartphone platforms, intellectually, you're right about iOS. But it's still bad. I'm tired of having to compromise my integrity and choose evil things to labor and communicate with others. You should, too. Everyone should. We're continually and increasingly being backed into these extremist either-or binary choices that pit us against one another, where both are toxic and poisonous to ourselves and those we love. Either choice hurts us. What we need to increasingly realize and recognize is that we're not limited to just two options - there's always a third, and it's not just another variant or replacement of the first two. It's the hardest option for us to take, but if we have any conscience at all, take it we must. Stop tolerating evil. Stop supporting evil. Stop apologizing for evil. Stop excusing evil. Stop endorsing evil. Be it smartphones or leaders or anything in life.
We need to stop choosing a lesser man-made evil, and begin seeking the way to do no evil at all. Not just for our conscience's sake, but for those we love and care about as well. Man's system is broken, and every effort by our fallen and selfish hands that we take to try and fix what never should be will only make things worse. It doesn't mean we shouldn't still care and try to uplift and help others who are still trying to choose the lesser evil, but we need to be a ray of hope in a world of darkness, and delight in the option that is so unheard of and unthinkable to so many others. Yet we can't even begin to do that without the right redemptive tools given to us in mercy and love in the first place.
When the tipping point comes, don't believe the promises of, "We fixed it, this time it'll be better." It is yet another promise built upon a mountain of broken promises. We will be better served to take the exit. What you have as tools currently, use until the liability grows too high. Our lives are far more precious to HaShem than any man, and He wants us to live. Choose life.
Lumia Update: I've been working on the Lumia 640s. Interop Unlocked, Fall Creator's Update (slow ring), Continuum via Miracast enabled, swap file size increased to 512MB. Everything but WiFi calling seems to work, though it's hard to verify IMS provisioning and band 12 VoLTE without taking a trip out of state first. It's definitely an upgrade from the Lumia 435. I'll probably do likewise to those once data's migrated over, all but Contiuum anyway. We're still in need of these tools, given we haven't the financial freedom to not have them be a requirement, and as such will try to do as much good with them as possible in the mean time... as difficult as that may be. However, I suspect this will personally be my last mobile phone. Working on and controlling technology, bending it to my will... it exhausts me. My calling and focus in life is shifting, and if I don't keep up with and respond to that shift and instead persist in the old ways, it will devour me.
I think it may be time to start winding down the guide, not that I've updated it much the past couple years anyway. I'll still try to help when asked, but it may be time I start applying the lessons and wisdom learned from this chapter of life toward the next one. Not sure yet what that transition is going to look like, but I hope you'll join me on the path.
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Hey Daley. Just wanted to say that
1) on the micro level, the phone recommendations are greatly appreciated and look like just what I had in mind. I didn't think a phone quite like the E4/G4 Play existed and am happy I was wrong. In case you are waiting with bated breath for our decision, we will update you in two or three weeks when we are stateside and can hopefully hold the devices in person before we buy.
and 2) on the macro level, your points about the ethics of who we do business with and the amount of time we should stare at smartphones have been really influential on my thinking and on the better half's thinking as well.
So, thanks massively for both. If you decide to hang up the cleats and do something else, I'll be cheering you on and following keenly.
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So, thanks massively for both. If you decide to hang up the cleats and do something else, I'll be cheering you on and following keenly.
And Grant, thank you. For everything. There's already starting to be a shift in what I'm posting about here, and I'm still on the fence on whether I'm genuinely ready yet to perhaps roll out a "journal". I know @jordanread has been pushing me to do that for a while now. My wife, @Constance Noring, has been talking about possibly joining me on the endeavor as well from the historical end of things.
Keep me posted once you get stateside.
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I'm still on the fence on whether I'm genuinely ready yet to perhaps roll out a "journal".
Nope, not yet. Still not quite where I need to be first. Last night thankfully drove that home.
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I have a Verizon Samsung Intensity (old phone of a family member) on Page Plus and keep my usage within their $10/120 day pay-as-you go plan by using Google Voice to forward to my Obi at home and my desk at work. DW has a T-Mobile LG Stylo 2 Plus (paid off, over 1 year on T-Mobile, not yet carrier unlocked) on a family plan with her brother (~$10/mo - way down from $30/mo when we bought service for her individually). Sometimes when we are out and about together I WiFi tether a 7" Fire Tablet to her phone for data access.
I'm currently looking for solutions for two telecommunications problems:
I hate my handset. I was satisfied with my flip phone (Verizon Samsung circa 2006) until I decided the battery was too limited in 2016. I don't like this candybar slider because it is too easy to turn on/off in my pocket unintentionally. I've lusted after a smart phone since the first iPhone, but don't want to pay for expensive phone plans. I find my 7" tablet to be a great size for a PDA, but sometimes wish I had access to data when I am out by myself. If my BIL offered me a slot on his family plan similar to DW's I'd probably take it, but I don't think I'm willing to spend more than $10/month for the luxury of mobile data just for me.
We're traveling internationally. We'll be spending just over 7 days in England (primarily Southampton and London) in a few weeks. Would like some mobile data access while out there. So far I'm seeing options for 1GB+ data for 10 GBP (or 250MB for 5 GBP). Would like to be able to communicate as soon as possible after landing at LGW airport. We expect to stick together, so if DW's phone is capable (I'm not sure what bands UK services run on, can look up bands phone has) we just need a SIM/plan recommendation - otherwise might consider an Android handset I'd later use in the US.
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I have a Verizon Samsung Intensity (old phone of a family member) on Page Plus and keep my usage within their $10/120 day pay-as-you go plan by using Google Voice to forward to my Obi at home and my desk at work. DW has a T-Mobile LG Stylo 2 Plus (paid off, over 1 year on T-Mobile, not yet carrier unlocked) on a family plan with her brother (~$10/mo - way down from $30/mo when we bought service for her individually). Sometimes when we are out and about together I WiFi tether a 7" Fire Tablet to her phone for data access.
I'm currently looking for solutions for two telecommunications problems:
I hate my handset. I was satisfied with my flip phone (Verizon Samsung circa 2006) until I decided the battery was too limited in 2016. I don't like this candybar slider because it is too easy to turn on/off in my pocket unintentionally. I've lusted after a smart phone since the first iPhone, but don't want to pay for expensive phone plans. I find my 7" tablet to be a great size for a PDA, but sometimes wish I had access to data when I am out by myself. If my BIL offered me a slot on his family plan similar to DW's I'd probably take it, but I don't think I'm willing to spend more than $10/month for the luxury of mobile data just for me.
Apologies for not getting back with you sooner, @robartsd.
First, the Intensity's days may be numbered, even if you didn't want to keep it. 2G CDMA is getting shut down in a little more than a year.
As for paying for "expensive" smartphone plans, well... look into US Mobile (https://www.usmobile.com). They offer both TMo and Verizon plans, and they don't give a toss what type of device you use and activate... be it a tablet, a phone, a modem, or cyber-alpaca. So long as the device is network compatible, you prepay for what you want and that's the end of it. Just be aware that if you want to use TMo, you'll need a VoLTE band 12 device now for most voice calls, which'll limit your choices a bit, especially if you're trying to shop used. As for what Android handsets I recommend these days, note what I recommended grantmeaname a little up the thread (Moto G4 Play and E4)... model numbers will depend on if you're still wanting Verizon coverage or not.
We're traveling internationally. We'll be spending just over 7 days in England (primarily Southampton and London) in a few weeks. Would like some mobile data access while out there. So far I'm seeing options for 1GB+ data for 10 GBP (or 250MB for 5 GBP). Would like to be able to communicate as soon as possible after landing at LGW airport. We expect to stick together, so if DW's phone is capable (I'm not sure what bands UK services run on, can look up bands phone has) we just need a SIM/plan recommendation - otherwise might consider an Android handset I'd later use in the US.
I'm gonna try and rope @grantmeaname in on this one. Any local experience to chime in on this, Grant? All my suggestions are going to be TruPhone SIM and KnowRoaming sorts of things, and mobile data can get expensive with those roaming plans versus a local SIM. Suggestions on who, and the quickest way to get rolling off the tarmac?
As far as what bands are concerned and with whom... https://www.4g.co.uk/4g-frequencies-uk-need-know/ (https://www.4g.co.uk/4g-frequencies-uk-need-know/)
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As far as what bands are concerned and with whom... https://www.4g.co.uk/4g-frequencies-uk-need-know/ (https://www.4g.co.uk/4g-frequencies-uk-need-know/)
Thanks. It looks the LG Stylo 2 Plus would work on most UK providers on 2100 Mhz 3G. Best data coverage would be from EE or Three on LTE band 3 (1800 Mhz).
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The airports have free WiFi. Get off the plane, let everyone know you're alive in the line for passport control, then buy a cheap prepaid SIM sometime during your trip. Or, since it's only a week, try and go without data; use restaurants' free WiFi and just use your phone less.
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The airports have free WiFi. Get off the plane, let everyone know you're alive in the line for passport control, then buy a cheap prepaid SIM sometime during your trip. Or, since it's only a week, try and go without data; use restaurants' free WiFi and just use your phone less.
Bingo. A quick WhatsApp message (or similar messaging app) over Wi-Fi to let everyone know of your safe arrival, and then pick up a local SIM at the airport.
I remember that the only time I arrived in another country on an international flight and wasn't able to find a vendor selling SIM cards at the airport itself was upon arriving in the US.
Even when I arrived in Auckland at midnight local time I could still buy a SIM card at the airport.
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I did WiFi only communication last year at CM*TO. The bandwidth was limited enough that I didn’t want to hog it for voice or video calls but my wife and kids sent me plenty of texts and pictures back and forth. If the trip had been longer than a weekend I might have bought a SIM, or just found a place nearby with better internet.
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The airports have free WiFi. Get off the plane, let everyone know you're alive in the line for passport control, then buy a cheap prepaid SIM sometime during your trip. Or, since it's only a week, try and go without data; use restaurants' free WiFi and just use your phone less.
We're thinking of trying London's bike share scheme for some of our exploration of the city (2 GBP for 24 hours of unlimited 30 minute rides, lots of docking stations in central London), so having reliable data at the docking stations may be required. It turns out that the T-Mobile plan DW's phone is on, Simple Choice North America, includes 2G speed data abroad - so we should be covered on her phone. Any high speed data we want can be over wifi. Thanks.
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Brief update that's mobile phone related.
I need to openly apologize to anyone whom I've casually mentioned either Ultra Mobile or Mint SIM (Mint Mobile) to over the years. I'll be honest, I've not had the time to do as much due diligence as I used to, and I haven't stayed as much on top of the more recent reports and feedback over carrier experiences as I perhaps should have.
The TMo end of decent MVNO providers has shrunk since the loss of P'tel a couple years ago, and in a desperate attempt to fill part of that void left on the "unlimited" end, I cut Ultra some slack... especially since they offered some migration relief to parting P'tel customers.
Well, today I got left a letter on the feedback form over at Technical Meshugana claiming to be someone from Mint SIM. I'm in the process of trying to actually confirm if it was one of their paid representatives, but it forced my hand to update my knowledge on them... and you know what? What I read over at Reddit and HoFo about both brands made my nostril hair curl. One HoFo community member described the experience of Mint SIM as being worse than that of Tracfone. Tracfone! I've always had reservations about their customer support quality, and the multi-month pay-in-advance model makes me very uncomfortable... especially in the current era and condition of the MVNO industry. But this? Reading what I did made me feel physically ill. The porting issues (both out and in), the billing issues, the loss of phone numbers on active accounts, the customer service quality....
What I have discovered has left me in a position of being less critical of Tracfone and Republic Wireless in comparison, and leaving me actually preferring to see people give those two outfits business over Ultra/Mint. Consider and weigh these words and where they're coming from carefully. This is how much the experience and gained knowledge has humbled me.
I have let my readers and this community down for mentioning these people at all, for giving them any sort of credibility, for not providing sufficient words of caution. I am deeply sorry.
I also need to apologize for forgetting to remove Virgin Mobile from the guide at the same time I did GoSmart.
The face of the MVNO industry has really changed over the past seven years, and it hasn't been for the better. Nearly everyone is a shell of what they used to be now. They're all scraping to stay in business and using creative math to do so. There's far less restraint with openly aggressive and abusive practices, as well. That's never a good sign from anyone you choose to do business with.
At the end of the day, I don't know if the contact message was legitimate or not... but it made me re-check them, and I'm thankful for that. If I've made a mistake, I need to repent of it. Whoever left that message, thank you, and I forgive you for all that you typed. You helped expose an injustice.
I made a mistake. Please forgive me.
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Keep me posted once you get stateside.
We landed a week and a half ago. On our first day back SWMBO bought the E4 plus, deciding that she'd prefer the bigger screen and battery to having a replaceable battery, and it was on sale for $140.
Yesterday I got the regular E4 Play for $130, and I absolutely love it. Yes, even the plastic back, which reminds me of my 2011 Nexus phone. I just wish it was about an inch smaller, but I'm the only consumer in the world who would say such things and handset makers haven't found me to be a sufficiently profitable market.
We are on a verrrry old Tmo plan right now that's is really cheap, although we will see if the terms get worse in coming days or months with the merger.
Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
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Welcome back, buddy!
I just wish it was about an inch smaller, but I'm the only consumer in the world who would say such things and handset makers haven't found me to be a sufficiently profitable market.
I know the feeling. I feel the same way about the Lumia 640, and both myself and my thumbs really miss the screen size of the 435.
Also physical keyboards. I miss those. *sigh*
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Dammit, I was seriously considering moving over to Ultra, one of the only MVNOs with international roaming.
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Dammit, I was seriously considering moving over to Ultra, one of the only MVNOs with international roaming.
I know. Trust me, I know. I hate bearing bad news about an MVNO, because it means that many fewer providers left that won't feel like a deal with the adversary... and the international roaming is a rarity as well. My wife and I had been tossing around the idea of going over to them as well, partly for the potential of getting back WiFi calling support. Now I feel like we dodged a bullet.
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Well folks, I know I've said it already, but I'm hanging 'er up for good. I think it's time to put the guide out to pasture.
I'm thankful for all the people I've had the privilege and honor to help over the years to save money with their telecom bills and for all that they've returned to me in kind; but in reflection, there were moments where I missed the mark. For that, I deeply apologize to anyone I may have harmed in the process. I could be harsh. I went into the guide only wanting to highlight the good in the industry and lead others to that, but somewhere along the line, I went negative. In the process of defending why I didn't include certain carriers, I blindly held up a mirror to myself in the process. For this as well, I am sorry. I'm not sure the changes to the telecom industry has helped with that over the past six years, either, but that's neither here nor there. I got trapped in a vicious cycle of virtue signaling, and I have no stomach to do it again.
If there is any advice I can give moving forward, as you research on your own for ways to save some cash? It's this:
-Talk with tech support a couple times before you become a customer, and get to know the company you'll be dealing with. Know what to expect when you may need them the most.
-Always read the fine print. Read all the legal contracts before signing up, and if you find something you can’t agree to, move on.
-If the service is free or the price is too good to be true, you are the product being sold, not the service. Understand this and the impact on your life it may have.
-If finances are tight, avoid companies that have hidden service fees for support. You never know when something might go wrong.
-Try to stay away from proprietary solutions when you can. When buying hardware, aim for open industry standards, avoid proprietary vendor lock-in, and seek out some level of end-user friendly repairability – especially with devices that have batteries. Care for your tools. Use it up, wear it out.
-Older companies can sometimes be more financially stable, but even established businesses fail. Pay attention.
-If your phone number is important, don’t take unnecessary risks with where you port it. Dealing with companies outside of the network owners can and will increase risk.
-With mobile service, sticking with a carrier on the network you’re already on will let you keep the phone you already have and provide you with a level of service in the field that you’re already familiar with. Even still, make sure you get your handset carrier unlocked, as most non-AT&T handsets will at least work on AT&T, even if there’s not much portability between Sprint, Verizon and T-Mobile at this point.
-Never pre-pay more for a service than you’re willing and able to potentially lose.
-Never convince yourself that you need something you only want, and be willing to use less. You probably don’t need it as much as you think you do.
-All of this technology is far more optional than society and marketing has conditioned you to believe, and it can get in the way of forming healthy friendships and feed unhealthy habits. Don’t be afraid to unplug.
-Let me encourage you to be longsuffering and deal upright with kindness, even in the face of mistreatment. Don’t follow the previous model of behavior I slipped into. Be quick to forgive and act with love. Even the worst company in the world still has humans at the other end of the lines of communication. Don’t devalue their life, and remember that we all make mistakes. Be kind.
-And as always, don’t be afraid to pay for what you need.
For the majority of this audience reading wanting research resources...
-Researching ISPs and VoIP providers are usually easiest looked into at DSLReports (https://www.dslreports.com).
-Finding the skinny on mobile carriers and MVNOs is best researched at HowardForums (https://howardforums.com).
-Researching businesses beyond general search engine results can frequently be done using the earlier mentioned communities, the BBB (https://www.bbb.org) and Ripoff Report (https://www.ripoffreport.com) (though both are for profit), Yelp (https://www.yelp.com) (read the hidden reviews as well), and Reddit (https://www.reddit.com). It’s the internet, so take everything with a grain of salt and remember that people rarely provide feedback unless it’s negative, but pay attention to patterns that may result in disruption of services.
-Getting to know a company as an employer can usually be done through GlassDoor (https://www.glassdoor.com), but here too, it’s the internet. Grain of salt, low non-negative feedback, etc.
-You can almost certainly find your Internet and MMS APN settings for you MVNO and phone of choice at Gishan.net (https://apn.gishan.net).
-To keep up with MVNO news and information as well as additional MVNO service information, use Prepaid Phone News (https://www.prepaidphonenews.com) and BestMVNO (https://bestmvno.com). Phone Dog (https://www.phonedog.com) also can be of use.
-For RV/nomad telecom research, there's the Mobile Internet Resource Center (https://www.rvmobileinternet.com), though it's partially paywalled.
-For general mobile industry news and information, Fierce Wireless (https://www.fiercewireless.com) is a good resource along with Mobile World Live (https://www.mobileworldlive.com).
-For broadband technology news, give Broadband Technology Report (https://www.broadbandtechreport.com/index.html) a look.
-For TV junkies, give Cord Cutting Report (https://cordcuttingreport.com) a look, though honestly? Do yourself a favor and feed your imagination instead of letting others tell you how to think. Go read a book.
-For mobile phone research and purchasing, give GSMArena (https://www.gsmarena.com), Phone Scoop (https://www.phonescoop.com), and Phone Arena (https://www.phonearena.com) a look. In addition to buying and selling, Swappa also has an IMEI/ESN checker (https://swappa.com/esn) if you're buying used.
-For anyone doing third party ROMs and OS hacks on their phones, look no further than XDA Developers (https://www.xda-developers.com) (they do more than Android).
May these resources be of use, and help you remain conscientious and informed customers going forward. And don't be afraid to do without if the day comes, too. After all, our forefathers never needed this stuff. If it stops being a tool or it causes you to lose sleep over it, let it go.
The entirety of the guide is CC-BY-SA, and has been for years. If anyone wants to archive and spiff it up for whatever reason, let me know. Otherwise, I think I'll let the site as it is currently slip into the mists of time and archive.org... and honestly, I'm not sure it's worth much more than that at this point as a lot of the content can go stale quickly. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the domain from this point forward, but I've still got six weeks to figure that out.
It's been a pleasure folks. I'm sticking around, but I'm on to the next adventure in this regard, even though I'm still not sure where I'm heading yet. All I can do is trust HaShem.
Stay gold,
-Daley
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No, thank you.
Over the last 5 years, your guide has not only directly saved us a boatload of money, but also taught us how to fish for ourselves.
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Definitely appreciate all the help over the years :)
What is your next adventure, if you’re willing to share?
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Thank you very much for your help and insights over the years Daley, it's been much appreciated. :)
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I've said it before - you rule. Thanks for the countless hours over the years guiding the community on this one bit of our financial lives.
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I appreciate the kind words everyone. It is my sincerest hope that where and when possible, a greater wisdom than "how to save money" may have still shone through... even despite myself and my hypocrisy.
What is your next adventure, if you’re willing to share?
I really don't know, exactly. But that's part of the faith - just trust that He will continue to keep His promises and that He has you if you're willing to shema (hear, listen and do) and come to Him through Yeshua.
It would do my heart great joy to see a return of the Acts 2 church (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+2) in my lifetime. I'd like to be a part of that if it did.
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Hi, I've got a cell phone question (I realize IP Daley is resigning but maybe others can help?).
I've had Republic for a few years (paying about $13-$15/month) and been happy with the service. I have a couple year old Moto E 2nd gen that Ive been happy with until recently.
I mainly use my phone--in order of importance--for podcasts, navigating with offline maps (both driving and hiking), and texting/calling.
My phone's had a broken screen for a few months, the gps has become much more sluggish to locate where I am (it sometimes fails completely, in both google maps and OSMandroid, I assume this is the phone but I'm not sure, the OSM app I bought is no longer supported and they've moved to subscriptions service I haven't signed up for yet), and the phone in general seems to be slowing down. None of these are huge problems.
However, a problem that just started and has been quite frustrating, is that the headphone jack seems to be wearing out. Podcasts frequently stop playing (because it thinks I've unplugged the headphones...this will happen when I put the phone in my pocket, or take a step, or move--anything that jiggles the jack).
The headphone jack seems clear that it wore out from use. The other issues I'm unsure if it's just from the phone "deteriorating" or because the phone is an older model. I was hoping to get some suggestions to replace it.
It seems I can get a moto e 2nd gen for about $50 (XT1529 from B&H). But I'm unsure if I shouldn't buy a newer phone so that it won't become quickly obsolete or unsupported. Moto E4's seem to be about 3x as much which seems like more than I'd want to pay.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
PS: My girlfriend doesn't have a smartphone, and wouldn't pay for one--for frugality and ethical reasons, but would probably appreciated having my old Moto to use for the offline maps and navigating.
PPS: sorry for the long first post.
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Get Bluetooth accessories. Every phone I’ve ever had has had the headphone jack break on it.
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I'd suggest that there might be compacted lint and fluff in the headphone port that's preventing the headphones from being fully plugged in. Maybe try and pick out some lint (using something preferably not metal) and see if that helps :)
Worst case, maybe you can DIY a headphone port replacement.
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Thank you @Daley for all your help, I have learned so much from you. And thank you for being willing to share your knowledge and your timely responses to almost every question asked of you, that couldn't have been easy with everything else going on in real life :-). You will be missed, good luck with your future endeavors!!
Matt
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Motorola, why you no sell unlocked Moto E5s???
If the price of E4s drops enough I might get one of those instead too...
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Glad I procrastinated, this guy came along since I last looked:
https://www.amazon.com/Nokia-3-1-16-GB-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp/B07DDBQ67F/
Pre-ordered one, now I just need a case for the clumsy future owner...
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Glad I procrastinated, this guy came along since I last looked:
https://www.amazon.com/Nokia-3-1-16-GB-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp/B07DDBQ67F/
Pre-ordered one, now I just need a case for the clumsy future owner...
No bloat and fast, great buy for this price point, would order again. $600 flagships are for the birds, y'all.
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Glad I procrastinated, this guy came along since I last looked:
https://www.amazon.com/Nokia-3-1-16-GB-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp/B07DDBQ67F/
Pre-ordered one, now I just need a case for the clumsy future owner...
No bloat and fast, great buy for this price point, would order again. $600 flagships are for the birds, y'all.
Congrats! Glad you like it.
Flagship pricing is crazy nowadays (especially here in Australia). Is a Galaxy S9 (or iPhone) really four times as good as a Nokia 3.1 or Moto G5S?
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Does anyone have experience/opinions on Red Pocket Mobile? I'm currently on a Walmart Family Mobile plan that costs $25/month for 1 GB of data. I'm considering their $15/month plan with 1GB of data and 1000 texts/1000 minutes. Coverage map looks like it will be alright. Thanks!
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I use Red Pocket (their Verizon CDMA version, rather than their ATT GSM offering). It took a few calls to set up, probably because the CDMA plan was new to them and I had a bonus month. Since then things have gone well.
I’m on the $10/month plan (500 minutes, 500 texts, 500mb), which works quite well for my low needs.
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Read an article today, it's worth paying attention to: Ajit Pai loses in court—FCC can’t kill broadband subsidy in Tribal areas (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/court-blocks-fcc-plan-that-could-cause-mass-disconnection-in-tribal-lands/) - Ars Technica
I bring this to your attention because the outcome of this is very important. I am glad the US Court of Appeals has blocked the FCC decision to drastically alter Lifeline services, but am unsure how long that may last and how far up the flag pole this gets run. If you like affordable phone service at all, you need to understand why this stay is a good thing, and know about the FCC's Lifeline services plans and what's coming along with the collateral damage if they push this through anyway.
This will impact far more than just Lifeline customers. Many of the MVNOs in this country have to scrap it out for survival with a not insignificant Lifeline user base on their own rolls, and Ajit Pai is ramrodding these plans through because, "limiting the use of subsidies to buy service from resellers will encourage carriers to build their own networks." Similar has increasingly happened with independent and smaller ISPs providing expanded Lifeline. The reality is this will damage the wholesale reseller telecoms industry in this country across the board, and one has to wonder how these miracle networks Pai boasts about will be built when the phone pole owners refuse competition access (see Google Fiber in Nashville against AT&T and Comcast, for example), many municipalities support wired communications monopolies and duopolies, and most of the useful wireless spectrum in this country is already owned by five, sorry, soon to be four mega corporations (only if you count USCC as sufficiently large enough to even qualify as a national mobile network).
It's also hanging the poor out to dry. AT&T dropped all their Lifeline customers off on wholesalers and MVNOs last year, now the FCC is trying to push out wholesale providers for Lifeline customers, despite the fact that it's the resellers who are now the only ones providing reasonably priced monthly service packages in the first place. And let's not even get started with the fact that this is for the most part over a less than $10 monthly subsidy that barely covers much service in the first place when it may be your only source of communications available... and this is a service that currently supports over 12 million subscribers.
This disgusts me. We've made it illegal in this country for people to live in ramshackle huts without electricity, doubly so with children involved if you want to send them to public school or lose them to CPS. We've made it impossible for minimum wage workers to work without having phone access. Then we treat them like they're spoiled because they (by necessity) have refrigerators, stoves and cellphones and juggling between bills just trying to stay afloat...
You want to know one of the biggest reasons that contributed to why I couldn't keep doing the guide and shut down the website? This. This right here. The heartlessness, the cruelty, and the corruption in the modern US telecom industry. Don't think you're immune because you're not living hand to mouth. Your impoverished neighbors are the canaries in your societal coal mine, and it's policies just like these that are getting pushed through all layers of government right now.
It breaks my heart, no matter how much I saw it coming. Any society that so devalues human life for the sake of such personal greed cannot practice true justice. Greed ruins lives. I mourn with poor, the broken hearted, the sick, the orphans, the immigrants, and the marginalized of this land. My hope is neither here or now, but frankly it's hard living through it all the same.
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Thanks Daley.
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Has anyone tried to take an Android phone and removing anything Google from it?
I'm kinda tempted to try something like that on my old Moto G as an experiment. I'm guessing installing LineageOS but not the Google apps is the way to go (Replicant seems to have very limited device support)? F-Droid or some other app store would be the go.
It'd be possibly a bridge too far for my daily phone though. :)
EDIT: Tried it tonight, my old Moto that was limited to Lollipop by Motorola is now running Nougat. No Google apps/services to be seen. Kinda neat.
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Has anyone tried to take an Android phone and removing anything Google from it?
I had actually experimented extensively with such a beast using Resurrection Remix on an old Moto E a few months back, trying to see if I could actually stomach leaving Windows Mobile with or without enough Microsoft apps in the Play store.
The setup used F-Droid, Yalp Store (Yalp was the only third party source of Play Apps I found where dev signatures consistently matched with Google's store apps), UnifiedNLP (no GAPPS) with RadioCells backend, and FakeGapps to satisfy any Microsoft (or other, say, FreedomPop) apps that overly relied on the Google infrastructure.
I tried a full Microsoft-centric experience (both their launcher and various Windows style tile launchers, Cortana, Outlook for mail and calendar, Office, OneNote, Authenticator, News, Weather, Groove, SwiftKey, etc.). I also tried a less network-services tied "dumber phone" configuration using most of Tibor Kaputa's Simple Mobile Tools (https://simplemobiletools.github.io/).
It worked both ways. It was usable. It wasn't nice enough to pry my cheap as dirt and still updating Lumia from my hands, but if I were forced to go back to Android instead of just wholly abandoning using a mobile device? I could probably make it work, and prefer it over the full-blown Google experience. I'll miss the Windows launcher and tiles, though. Just because you can make Android's launcher look like Windows Phone doesn't mean you can actually convincingly make it behave like Windows Phone (especially the dash, and yes, even Cortana). It was easier for me to accept Android's limitations when I wasn't trying to ape the Windows Phone UI and constantly being reminded that this monstrosity ain't that. Heh.
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I had actually experimented extensively with such a beast using Resurrection Remix on an old Moto E a few months back, trying to see if I could actually stomach leaving Windows Mobile with or without enough Microsoft apps in the Play store.
The setup used F-Droid, Yalp Store (Yalp was the only third party source of Play Apps I found where dev signatures consistently matched with Google's store apps), UnifiedNLP (no GAPPS) with RadioCells backend, and FakeGapps to satisfy any Microsoft (or other, say, FreedomPop) apps that overly relied on the Google infrastructure.
Ah nice, I hadn’t heard of Yalp store. I’ve tried F-Droid and Aptoide. The idea of using ‘alternatives’ to the Google Play services is interesting.
I’ve actually decided to temporarily switch to the Motorola (running LineageOS 14.1) for a week or so (I’ve been on my phone too much and I’d like to change that). Tomorrow night I’m going to install a bunch of apps I want to keep (a podcast app, a public transport app and a messaging app or two, and maybe Spotify), and remove almost everything else, including the web browser, email client and any app store, and then switch in my SIM.
Removing the siren call of the web browser in my pocket for a while should help with any bad habits I’ve developed. Anything important enough can wait until I get home.
Some of the main apps have become ridiculously bloated, so maybe some of the ‘alternative’ or FOSS ones are lighter.
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Has anyone tried to take an Android phone and removing anything Google from it?
most phones in China are Androids , and do not use Google
https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/how-does-android-phone-work-without-google-apps-look-china/article/2156144
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FWIW, Airvoice recently updated their Unlimited plans. The $20/mo plan went from 100MB -> 1GB (and they currently have a promotion that gives you 2GB for the same price).
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Did anyone else notice that Motorola is now supplying official repair parts (batteries, screens etc) to iFixit?
https://www.androidauthority.com/ifixit-motorola-partnership-fix-kits-917415/
https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/23/motorola-and-ifixit-repair-kits/
https://ifixit.org/blog/11644/motorola-ifixit-partnership/
This is a rather big plus IMO. If the future Moto handsets come with Android One (IIRC some already do), then it's an appealing option for a future phone. Great to see a company actually supporting people repairing their own devices.
On another note, I'm amazed at how much mobile data one can get now for not much money. My prepaid plan has gone up to 20GB per 30 days (I prepaid for a year's service back in March for about $21 per month), and there's larger plans still for postpaid. I use a fraction of that data, but signing up for a large plan (50GB+) and cancelling my $60 per month fixed line internet has crossed my mind. Unfortunately I don't think my Chromecast would work well if I'm just tethering my phone for Internet.
Just returned from a holiday where some of it was spent in areas with very limited phone reception, and managed just fine. At one point beforehand I was considering activating a starter kit on another carrier or changing carriers just so I'd have service, but I'm glad I didn't chicken out and do that, even though I had very limited communications for a couple of days :p
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Australia apparently has far cheaper cell service than the US--I just got back from a trip down there, and Optus offers a plan that's only $10AUD/mo ($7.20USD) for 1GB plus unlimited talk/text. I pay over twice that in the US
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Australia apparently has far cheaper cell service than the US--I just got back from a trip down there, and Optus offers a plan that's only $10AUD/mo ($7.20USD) for 1GB plus unlimited talk/text. I pay over twice that in the US
Yeah mobile service is dirt cheap here, thanks to a price war over the last few years (although I haven't seen $10/month plans with Optus themselves, I've seen that rate with MVNOs on their network). Although our fixed-line internet is generally a bit shitty and expensive, so give and take. :)
I know this is probably against the ethos of Mustachianism, but I feel that I'm happy to pay about $30 a month for phone service, it feels like a fair price. I can get a plan that fits my usage patterns for $20 or even less if I sign up for a year or go with a small MVNO (or reduce my usage), but it's diminishing returns beyond a certain point. It's not like the bad old days when I was paying $164/mo for two devices on contract.
On the topic of the US networks, is it easy to use a device on a different network to what it was originally used on? Is the whole CDMA thing for Sprint/Verizon still causing issues there? We all know that vendor lock-in is antimustachian, after all :)
Speaking of antimustachian, the prices of the new flagship devices...holy moly. I think the new iPhone XS Max tops out at about $1400USD+tax.
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On the topic of the US networks, is it easy to use a device on a different network to what it was originally used on? Is the whole CDMA thing for Sprint/Verizon still causing issues there? We all know that vendor lock-in is antimustachian, after all :)
The old legacy CDMA networks still cause a split in device models, though most CDMA devices can now be used on the local GSM networks after unlocking. What's really throwing a frog in the punch bowl is LTE spectrum fragmentation, and future 5G network rollout and spectrum fragmentation. The more frequencies a phone tries to support, the more expensive, and larger those phones are, and less capable of actually effectively communicating wirelessly.
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Speaking of antimustachian, the prices of the new flagship devices...holy moly. I think the new iPhone XS Max tops out at about $1400USD+tax.
No Joke. The latest flagships are literally twice the price of the flagships from a decade ago. In fact, Apple have simply ratcheted the price up with each level of storage, i.e. their 16GB models (of whatever generation) held the same price of $650 (and add $100 for the plus models), despite the precipitous drop in flash prices over the same period.
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Question regarding printers/scanners: I have a 10 year old HP all-in-one that we barely use for printing, but we're more interested in a scanner. Many home printers come with a simple scanning capability (mine can scan, but the software barely functions with Windows 10 unless plugged in directly). Sam's Club is selling a year-old HP all-in-one that is roughly the same price as a replacement set of ink for the printer I have now. I've looked at purpose-built document scanners, but they're quite expensive. Our need is to convert legal and medical documents to digital and have a paperless household (along with the occasional print job). Dailey had an opinion on this years ago, but I can't seem to find it. Any thoughts?
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There's smartphone camera "scanner" software available if the back camera is good enough, though it is a bit imperfect.
I'd mentioned Brother laser MFCs once or twice, but I mostly advocated separate tools to ensure you didn't lose both if one broke. Flatbeds can be cheaper if you have the space, especially older used Canon LIDEs like the LIDE 60 (<$25), but you have to use Canon's old Win7 WIA drivers and a front end like NAPS2 if you're a Windows 10 user. I can't speak to OSX.
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Yeah I've used the smartphone camera as a scanner in a pinch, but the quality wasn't brilliant. Weirdly it was better when using my old iPad. OK in a pinch but if you're regularly digitising documents I'd suggest a dedicated scanner :)
I've cross-posted this in the 'Ask a Mustachian' section, but I've noticed of late that the CPU usage on my old MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo) is rather high when browsing (often a page will use 30-40% of the CPU). As a result, it gets rather warm with light use (even after cleaning the fans and redoing the heatsink compound), and there's a decent stream of hot air coming out the back of it.
This happens in multiple browsers (Chrome/Firefox/Safari) and in both OSX and Linux.
I'm trying to work out whether the right browser/plugins would help reduce CPU load, or whether it's time to retire the old thing.
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If you have a big backlog of documents that need to be converted to digital, I recommend one of the purpose-built document scanners despite the price. They get the job done so much faster. A slow flatbed or all-in-one can be tolerable if you're just scanning the occasional thing as it comes in the mail, but would take forever to get through a file cabinet drawer. You can always box the document scanner back up and sell it on Amazon or Craigslist once you're done with it.
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Corporate Loyalty is for suckers!
My advice is to become carrier agnostic by not using and relying on their email ( I use gmail). Then you can easily jump ship for a better deal with no difficulty or reservations. My two providers Spectrum & At&T both offer deals for new subscribers only so with no email accounts to change, I can just jump ship every year to get the other guy's new subscriber deal. Average saving is about $25 mo
Bill
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D'oh. Seems that my phone is misbehaving. If it is what I think it is, I could order new parts from eBay/Amazon/AliExpress and get it right again for about $30, but that's if I don't break the screen while opening it. Those phone repair booths are likely to charge $100+ to repair it, they charged $150 to replace a battery in my phone about a year ago.
So I guess my options are whether to buy the parts online, wait a couple of weeks for delivery and try fixing it myself (using my spare in the meantime), or looking around for a new or refurb device.
$250 seems to get a refurbished 2017 Android flagship that isn't a Samsung (Huawei P10 or HTC U11 and maybe an LG or Sony in that price, the Samsung ones are more expensive), but of course going by my experience with the current phone a new battery is generally required soon afterwards. A decent new midrange phone starts at about $300. Obviously a fresh battery and likelihood of software updates (especially if Android One) almost makes up for the weaker midrange hardware.
I even considered seeing if there was any decent deals for contract phones, but alas, not at present (at least not with the carrier I'm after).
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instead of opening up the phone to replace the battery, how about getting a battery case- make sure phone you get has them available
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instead of opening up the phone to replace the battery, how about getting a battery case- make sure phone you get has them available
Yeah that could work too.
I've gone to a few phone repair booths at the local shopping centre, and they won't touch it. Seems that they only really bother with iPhones and the odd Samsung.
I also noticed an absolutely cooking deal on a 12 month contract with an Oppo R17. Unfortunately, the carrier that it's with doesn't have reception at my workplace.
Might order the parts and switch to my spare for a bit. Might as well have a try at repairing it myself, worst case is I still need to get another phone.
EDIT: I've ordered the parts/tools from AliExpress to fix and freshen up this phone. If I get it sorted, then I've both fixed the phone and learnt a badass new skill. If it's still busted afterwards, well it's only $60 for the bits and I'd still need a new phone.
I could pick up a decent midrange phone for $3-400 new. Not paying $1000+ for a flagship. Although I will confess that with the mobile quotas of some of the high end plans here, I've considered buying one on contract and picking up a second mobile data SIM to pool/share the 200GB of data. Of course I'd need a facepunch because that setup would be $120 a month (even if I'd save $60 a month by cancelling my ADSL).
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Hey @Daley, I wrote here a year ago about upgrading from my old 2G flip phone, and I thought I would write with an update. I was feeling apprehensive because I have mixed feelings about smartphones and am pretty minimalist about using phones in general. I ended up sticking with the same phone to use my prepaid minutes and getting a Obi200 for home to have a home phone.
A couple weeks ago, I finally bought my first smartphone - the Moto G6 for $99 from Google Fi. My husband uses Google Fi and he ordered an extra data-only SIM card from his account for me to use (no extra charge, just charged for the data use at his normal rate). So far I love it! I have yet to actually turn on data for it, but I still have access to really helpful tools like Google Maps that help me navigate (thanks to downloading maps), mobile check deposit, audiobook apps, camera, etc. Google Voice is nicely streamlined into the phone for easily making/receiving calls/texts. I still get to keep my feeling of being untethered because I keep data off and decide when to sign into wifi (I will probably turn on data at some point when I need to get in touch with someone and I'm not in a hotspot). And I don't need to keep it on me at home because I still have my Obi200 and computer at home. So it's pretty much perfect for a phone minimalist like me!
Anyway, thanks again, Daley, for all your wisdom re: phones and teaching me about 2G vs 3G/4G and introducing me to the Obi200. It was so helpful, and I'm really happy with my current setup!
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I wonder if there's an ATA that, instead of being a VoIP adapter over Wi-Fi or ethernet, that lets you use a SIM card and plug a landline handset in to it and run calls over the mobile network.
I've seen 'classic' phones with cellular modems built in, but they're largely 2G only (no 2G networks are operational here).
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I wonder if there's an ATA that, instead of being a VoIP adapter over Wi-Fi or ethernet, that lets you use a SIM card and plug a landline handset in to it and run calls over the mobile network.
I've seen 'classic' phones with cellular modems built in, but they're largely 2G only (no 2G networks are operational here).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_home_phone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_home_phone)
ZTE is the most common manufacturer of such devices.
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I've been very pleasantly surprised with Mint Mobile, as they're one of the very few MVNOs that offer international roaming.
I'm flabbergasted by the huge savings offered if customers prepay for service. I understand that MVNO customers tend to be less affluent and billing issues cost money. I understand that credit card merchant fees disincentivize small purchases.
It still seems unreal that the price of their lowest plan can drop by 40% just because I can swing the 12 month payment.
I'd love for them to offer something cheaper, but this is pretty darn good already.
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Just remember, Paul, Mint is also one of the MVNOs that has a T&C and AUP that defines grounds for terminating service at any time with their users based solely on their arbitrary definition of "profitability" of that user, and considers your using their cell phone service as your primary means of communication a violation of their terms. Their definition of "unlimited" is one of the most fluidly capped I've ever seen defined by an MVNO.
I hope your time with them goes without incident.
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Just remember, Paul, Mint is also one of the MVNOs that has a T&C and AUP that defines grounds for terminating service at any time with their users based solely on their arbitrary definition of "profitability" of that user, and considers your using their cell phone service as your primary means of communication a violation of their terms. Their definition of "unlimited" is one of the most fluidly capped I've ever seen defined by an MVNO.
I hope your time with them goes without incident.
I agree that their T&Cs are quite broad, but as a regular user with reasonable usage I'm not too concerned.
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I wonder if there's an ATA that, instead of being a VoIP adapter over Wi-Fi or ethernet, that lets you use a SIM card and plug a landline handset in to it and run calls over the mobile network.
I've seen 'classic' phones with cellular modems built in, but they're largely 2G only (no 2G networks are operational here).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_home_phone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_home_phone)
ZTE is the most common manufacturer of such devices.
The ZTE ones look perfect, thanks Daley.
I'm amazed that I haven't seen more of them here. The internet infrastructure here is getting updated nationwide, and in most cases the old PSTN services are being turned off. For those who don't want Internet service but want a landline phone, they're having to resort to using a VDSL (in many areas) modem with a VoIP phone service (provided by the telco and billed like a PSTN service, but more hardware). That's typically $30 per month plus calls, and the modems often don't have a battery backup.
One of those mobile-based setups would be far cheaper for calls, but I guess one of the roadblocks is that here at least it'd have a mobile number (different number range to landlines). Still, there definitely would be a market for that service.
I've done the '12 month prepaid' thing before. It's good for the carrier (they've got your money after all), but obviously if your circumstances change, and you need to change midway through for any reason, you've done your dough.
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The internet infrastructure here is getting updated nationwide, and in most cases the old PSTN services are being turned off. For those who don't want Internet service but want a landline phone, they're having to resort to using a VDSL (in many areas) modem with a VoIP phone service (provided by the telco and billed like a PSTN service, but more hardware). That's typically $30 per month plus calls, and the modems often don't have a battery backup.
The set ups I've seen here in the states (primarily AT&T) include a backup battery, but battery maintenance and replacement is pushed off onto the customer. Of course by the time the battery needs replacement, you can probably just take a deal to get another provider to set you up.
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Anyone got a recommendation for a phone to use with Ting? I dropped my phone in the toilet this morning RIP. I bought it 4 years ago for $35, so I can't complain.
It looks like the GSM has the cheaper options on phones. The cheapest smartphone I've found that appears compatible is this one:
https://www.amazon.com/BLU-S910Q-Unlocked-Dual-SIM-Smartphone/dp/B07JF6L6PF/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=t-mobile+cell+phones&qid=1562707941&s=gateway&sr=8-9
I basically only use it for emails and a few texts/phone calls. Any help would be appreciated :)
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Anyone got a recommendation for a phone to use with Ting? I dropped my phone in the toilet this morning RIP. I bought it 4 years ago for $35, so I can't complain.
It looks like the GSM has the cheaper options on phones. The cheapest smartphone I've found that appears compatible is this one:
https://www.amazon.com/BLU-S910Q-Unlocked-Dual-SIM-Smartphone/dp/B07JF6L6PF/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=t-mobile+cell+phones&qid=1562707941&s=gateway&sr=8-9
I basically only use it for emails and a few texts/phone calls. Any help would be appreciated :)
I just picked up a Moto E4 like new for about $60 on eBay. I chose the model because it has a removable battery and compatibility up to 4G LTE with all 4 major US carriers (this is the only phone I've found that meets both criteria). Needed the replacement because Verizon's CDMA service my old phone used is being shut down at the end of the year.
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I just moved to Korea and after switching to a local carrier discovered that Google Voice won't work for me anymore. Are there any international-friendly WiFi calling apps out there?
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I just moved to Korea and after switching to a local carrier discovered that Google Voice won't work for me anymore. Are there any international-friendly WiFi calling apps out there?
I know GV won't forward to international numbers, but I thought the WiFi calling works globally. I have used GV to make calls to the US on a WiFi only device in England. Perhaps if you completely remove the GV app and reinstall, you can configure it to not associate with the device's phone number and WiFi calling would work again. You might need to have at least one US based number associated with the account (but you can turn off forwarding of calls to every actual number). If you have someone you trust with a landline in the US, you might see if they'd be OK with using their number as a "Home" phone in GV (GV doesn't allow "Mobile" numbers to be used by multiple accounts, but "Home" or "Work" numbers can be shared). You could also buy a cheap dial in number with a VOIP provider to set as your GV forwarding phone (or jump through the hoops to get a free one).
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I just moved to Korea and after switching to a local carrier discovered that Google Voice won't work for me anymore. Are there any international-friendly WiFi calling apps out there?
I know GV won't forward to international numbers, but I thought the WiFi calling works globally. I have used GV to make calls to the US on a WiFi only device in England. Perhaps if you completely remove the GV app and reinstall, you can configure it to not associate with the device's phone number and WiFi calling would work again. You might need to have at least one US based number associated with the account (but you can turn off forwarding of calls to every actual number). If you have someone you trust with a landline in the US, you might see if they'd be OK with using their number as a "Home" phone in GV (GV doesn't allow "Mobile" numbers to be used by multiple accounts, but "Home" or "Work" numbers can be shared). You could also buy a cheap dial in number with a VOIP provider to set as your GV forwarding phone (or jump through the hoops to get a free one).
So whatever I was doing earlier doesn't seem to be an issue at the moment. I think I was trying to build a new profile from scratch and it didn't accept my Korean number. My Google account still has my original profile and I just made a call home on that number. As long as Google doesn't want to send anymore verification texts to my old US number I should be okay.
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Hoping that someone can help me. I have 2 old Verizon flip / slide phones without removable SIM cards. I had them on page plus wireless plans where I could get 100 mins for $10 that didn't expire for 3 months. It gave my kids cell service for the year for about $40. As the kids are young and prone to losing phones, the minutes expired and the phone numbers were relinquished and now page plus only sells NEW service for LTE phones. They would still support the phones had the minutes not lapsed :-/
I am not interested in buying phones that allow my kids to use data or play games, these were pure burner phones. I also don't want to get locked into paying monthly for minutes that we won't use. Are there any remaining options for Verizon MVNOs?
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You MAY be able to use Red Pocket, but their lowest is $60/year (100 minutes a month). Check the device ID here - https://www.redpocket.com/activate#
I say may because my Mom had an old phone which she could have kept using had it stayed activated, but there was something about emergency/GPS/whatever that meant it could not be reactivated after it was shut down.
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Are there any remaining options for Verizon MVNOs?
No. Verizon had suspended re-activating CDMA only handsets nearly a year ago (even through MVNO partners) due to their shutting down the old CDMA 1X network at the end of this year to refarm that spectrum (along with their 3G EV-DO spectrum) for LTE network expansion. Even if it hadn't lapsed, the phones wouldn't have worked past December 31st. Basically, if you want to be able to make voice calls on Verizon in 2020, you have to own an LTE phone with Verizon VoLTE capability, which also means LTE-based plans.
Get a couple cheap AT&T 4G LTE flip phones like the Alcatel Flip 2 ($50), and take them to H2O Wireless. $10/90 days will get you 200 minutes, and they offer a buck off if you set up auto-recharge... so that'll be $36/line/year with twice the available minutes accruing. Just know, VoLTE capable 4G "feature" phones are still awful. There are still plenty of cheap AT&T 3G handsets kicking around under $50 used that'll work way better (such as the ZTE Z222/223), but those phones will go end of life and lose cell service on AT&T in February 2022.
Yay planned obsolescence!
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/63294b52db40befe9c6bc085c6e127a2/tenor.gif) (https://tenor.com/view/celebrate-awesome-yay-wow-funny-gif-8571772)
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What's your view on KaiOS Daley?
Probably not suitable for this situation (given it's got internet capabilities) but it seems to be on a few phones nowadays.
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What's your view on KaiOS Daley?
Meh. Smartphone lite with a D-pad, T9 and a dialpad, basically. That's what all of them try to do now with 4G/VoLTE "feature phone" handsets, instead of just being a phone. Battery life suffers, plenty of distractions, terrible interface. Apparently nobody actually wants phones anymore, except a tiny subset of the elderly and a handful of cranky rebels.
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Hoping that someone can help me. I have 2 old Verizon flip / slide phones without removable SIM cards. I had them on page plus wireless plans where I could get 100 mins for $10 that didn't expire for 3 months. It gave my kids cell service for the year for about $40. As the kids are young and prone to losing phones, the minutes expired and the phone numbers were relinquished and now page plus only sells NEW service for LTE phones. They would still support the phones had the minutes not lapsed :-/
I am not interested in buying phones that allow my kids to use data or play games, these were pure burner phones. I also don't want to get locked into paying monthly for minutes that we won't use. Are there any remaining options for Verizon MVNOs?
I was using this plan for my own cell service. I purchased a Moto E4 recently to replace my (hated) Samsung Intensity (a family member's old phone that I adopted when my 2006 flip phone's battery was no longer suitable for my minimal needs). Technically I'm still using this plan, but I chose the Moto E4 because it is compatible with 4G LTE on Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint (plus has a removable battery), so I can take it to whatever carrier I want. I was surprised that Page Plus reset my balance expiration to 3 months after LTE activation. LTE pay as you go on Page Plus provides more minutes that CDMA phones ($0.06/min instead of $0.10/min).
Another forum member suggested Tello (Sprint network) - their pay as you go plan is cheaper and balance doesn't expire as long as there is some usage each month - I could probably get down to $20/year with them; but, I'd also be tempted to go spendypants and purchase Tello's 100 minute/unlimited text/500 MB plan for $6/month and actually use some mobile data (other than occasionally tethering to DW's phone on a T-Mobile unlimited plan).
Motorola did recently roll out the last security update they plan to provide for this phone (about 2 years after original 2017 release). Android Version is 7.1.1.
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What's your view on KaiOS Daley?
Meh. Smartphone lite with a D-pad, T9 and a dialpad, basically. That's what all of them try to do now with 4G/VoLTE "feature phone" handsets, instead of just being a phone. Battery life suffers, plenty of distractions, terrible interface. Apparently nobody actually wants phones anymore, except a tiny subset of the elderly and a handful of cranky rebels.
Fair enough. I've seen a few basic phones, but most of them are 2G only or 2G/3G only. We're still a few years off closing the 3G networks here though, we've only recently shut down our 2G networks.
I assume that the more 'traditional' feature phone operating systems aren't set up with VoLTE support. I've even seen feature phones running Android. I wonder if there's VoLTE support in S40 (if it's still used anywhere)?
It's a bit unfortunate. Since the ASP of dumbphones is so low, people not being prepared to design 'traditional' dumb phones with VoLTE access, so they end up getting whatever cut-down smartphone operating system that works. That or they're 2G only, because only customers in developing markets still buy those phones...right?
If all of the US networks are closing their 3G networks, then surely that's going to cause issues for people from overseas who travel to the US. I know my phone supports very few of the LTE bands used in the US, but having UMTS 850 means it'd work fine on AT&T for 3G. Am I expected to buy a new phone to travel to the US?
What a mess.
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What a mess.
Yup.
The thing to remember is that the original production GSM spec through to 3G UMTS all had a voice first model as a bridge to the PSTN, which meant that the DAC and bridge between the wireless network to the phone was simple. 4G LTE is a pure IPv6 data network - or data only. Remember: it's VoLTE - voice service bolted onto LTE, and they were still ironing out the kinks after the networks deployed. You remember how difficult it was for most everyone to implement GAN/UMA/VoWiFi (especially on Android and iOS) on their phones despite the spec being released with 3G over a decade ago, and many networks supporting it with BBOS, S60 and WP7+, and couldn't get it quite right until after they released VoLTE capable handsets? It was because you're dealing with a purely VoIP telephone connection on a mobile device to connect to the PSTN through the packet network/internet.
Want to know why old feature phone operating systems can't handle VoLTE and battery life is so awful? There you go. You can't just slap a silicon chip in there and keep using the same software. It's why all VoLTE capable feature phones are smartphone lite operating systems.
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What a mess.
Want to know why old feature phone operating systems can't handle VoLTE and battery life is so awful? There you go. You can't just slap a silicon chip in there and keep using the same software. It's why all VoLTE capable feature phones are smartphone lite operating systems.
Got ya.
Yeah I get that VoLTE is all data only. I guess nobody saw the point in adding 4G support to the feature phone operating systems of the day when 4G was being rolled out, and by the time people wanted feature phones with VoLTE, the operating systems previously used for feature phones were obsolete? I remember that my old Nokia E51 was able to run a VoIP client, and isn't VoLTE just VoIP over LTE? Admittedly S60 on the E51 was probably closer to what KaiOS is today than a 'dumb phone' :)
The issue I have is just the lack of standardisation of 4G bands around the world. In the 2G days if you had a quadband phone you'd probably get service with most GSM carriers around the world. With 3G, maybe 850/900/1900/2100 and that split 1700/2100 thing T-Mobile US uses, and again you'd be fine on most GSM carriers (maybe with something else for Japan). With 4G/LTE...it's a bit trickier. Hopefully this is fixed with 5G (hah!).
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Fair enough. I've seen a few basic phones, but most of them are 2G only or 2G/3G only. We're still a few years off closing the 3G networks here though, we've only recently shut down our 2G networks.
Only AT&T has already shut down 2G, but all major US carriers have announced 2G sunset dates. Verizon will be the first to shut down 3G. If you really want a non-LTE feature phone and have decent T-Mobile coverage, that might be a reasonable choice.
AT&T - 2G shut down 12/31/2016, 3G to shut down 12/31/2021 (can no longer add non-LTE phones to network)
Sprint - 2G to shut down 12/31/2021, 3G to shut down 12/31/2022 (currently still require CDMA capable phones to join network)
T-Mobile - 2G to shut down 12/31/2020, no 3G shut down announced
Verizon - 2G and 3G to shut down 12/31/2019 (can no longer add non-LTE phones to network)
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T-Mobile - 2G to shut down 12/31/2020, no 3G shut down announced
Bit of a misnomer, honestly, given that T-Mobile already shut down their entire 1900MHz 3G network to re-farm to 4G LTE in favor of pushing everyone to band 12 VoLTE for phone service, excuse the pockets where they didn't have 700MHz spectrum holdings. Once their 2G network gets shut down, no 850/1900 3G handset is going to work on T-Mobile's network save for the majority of Oklahoma, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, West Virginia, North Carolina, Mississippi, Vermont, Maine and parts of other states like Illinois, Missouri, Oregon and Texas. No telling how long that'll last once they integrate Sprint's spectrum holdings and equipment into their network.
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Why is it that midrange smartphones seem to often have larger batteries than flagships?
I've been looking to replace my HTC, and was considering both new midrange units and refurbished flagships, but the new midrange units might have 4000mAh batteries (or larger), but the flagships retailing at more than double the price new have batteries that are maybe 3000mAh (and of course refurbished/used would have less capacity still).
There's a whole lot of value from sub A$500 devices, especially from the Chinese OEMs or refurbs. I couldn't justify paying $1000+ these days.
I'm also thinking about getting my grandmother a new phone (she's using an old Huawei smartphone I used to own and it's a bit of a pain to use). There's a throwaway Google account on it, but I think in the long run I'd probably either set up another Google account for the next phone, or just skip it altogether. I've noticed that Samsung have their own appstore preinstalled on their phones, and the Samsung A20 seems like good value. I wonder if it's any good? It's that, or purchase a refurbished iPhone 7 (she's got an iPad so iOS isn't such a bad option).
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Why is it that midrange smartphones seem to often have l..
I always have a battery case on my Galaxies, past and present; adds a comfortable heft to these too thin phones. Combo totals often exceed 5k mAhs. Once carried an S7 with a 7.5k zerolemon.
Refurb flagships have plenty of oomph left for great price off Ebay. My primary daily driver is an S9+, sub 400 bucks months ago, does great on avg 100/gb mo data use. Figure a refurb S8 would have no trouble keeping up with an new A20 for around the same price.
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Why is it that midrange smartphones seem to often have l..
I always have a battery case on my Galaxies, past and present; adds a comfortable heft to these too thin phones. Combo totals often exceed 5k mAhs. Once carried an S7 with a 7.5k zerolemon.
Refurb flagships have plenty of oomph left for great price off Ebay. My primary daily driver is an S9+, sub 400 bucks months ago, does great on avg 100/gb mo data use. Figure a refurb S8 would have no trouble keeping up with an new A20 for around the same price.
Yeah there's some good value there, especially from some less common brands, although an S9 was about $A400 refurbished, plus whatever a battery replacement costs a few months down the track. Battery cases are a good idea, I had a cheap one on my old iPhone 5 back in the day.
Are brands like Oppo available in the US? There are some impressive handsets for the money from Chinese OEM's.
Either midrange phones or previous gen flagships represent great value, buying the latest and greatest is expensive.
Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
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It's been a long while, but this seems relevant and worth posting for the sake of awareness.
Context. (https://www.fiercewireless.com/operators/concerns-grow-over-verizon-s-acquisition-tracfone)
It's been no secret that I've had contentious feelings towards America Movil and Tracfone Wireless over the past decade. However, since the great T-Mobile/Sprint merger and Sprint's prepaid division divestment to Dish (who now owns Boost and Ting) with the intention of "creating a new fourth national wireless carrier" (as US Cellular gives a "what about us" death stare) with the remaining bits of Sprint's network that hasn't already been cannibalized for T-Mobile shut down in less than a year - Verizon now has its eyes on purchasing Tracfone Wireless (and all its subsidiary brands) for $6.9 billion USD.
The MVNO industry is in rough shape these days. For all the beef I had with Slim on the terms of service policies and lousy customer support and sketchy Lifeline dealings, Tracfone's presence was still the 800lb gorilla in the room pushing lower wholesale pricing for everyone in the industry with around 21 million subscribers between the three MNOs, and they're one of the largest Lifeline providers in the country, in a country of over 340 million subscriber lines. (The second largest MVNO is Consumer Cellular at only 4 million.) Of those 21 million subscribers, only 13 million are on Verizon's network. Verizon has also historically balked at providing Lifeline services, had some of the highest cost mobile price plans and wholesale pricing, and has deliberately let their copper phone network deteriorate for years despite hundreds of thousands of people in their network area having no alternative.
There's talk of possible regulatory divesting the AT&T and T-Mo MVNO customers on Tracfone to approve the merger, but Verizon has also made it clear that they'll want to try and convert as many Tracfone customers over to their network with the buyout.
This isn't great, folks.
Remember, there is no regulatory requirement for network operators to provide any sort of third party access to their networks, let alone at any reasonable rate in this country. The MVNO industry literally exists solely based on a promise by the big three (at this point) to do so, and we all know how good AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon are at keeping their promises when record profits are on the line.
Also remember that when I first published the guide in these forums over nine years ago (wow), the common going rate for PAYGO MVNOs wasn't uncommon to charge 5-10¢/minute, SMS, and MB of data, and even the best going prices on sub-$35/month packages didn't provide anywhere near what they do today. Also remember what you used to get with postpaid service back then. I also warned about the potential gutting of the industry with the boutique pseudo-MVNO prepaid brand introductions by AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon. As of 2Q2020, none of the big three officially report wholesale customer numbers anymore. And outside of vague promises of roaming interoperability, VoLTE has also basically killed handset interoperability between carriers for everything but a handful of the most expensive flagships, too... and there's still a Verizon model divide even with that.
MVNO customers are a fraction of the subscribers in this country, and we only still have this option because of promises made by three behemoth corporations who've left a trail of multi-billion dollar promises strewn dead on the side of the road. Now, the only true major player exerting any leverage against the three is about to be bought out by one of them, which means that wholesale leverage disappears almost entirely for the one making the purchase, Verizon.
We need meaningful telecom reform and regulation in this country for the sake of the user, but I'm not holding my breath. In a way, this is a bit of a screed, yelling into the darkness knowing that it won't do any good. But, as MVNO customers, you should at least be aware. Ask yourself what happens when our roughly ten percent of the market might become one percent with even just one of the big three, and most of the subscribers in that ten percent are on these plans not by choice like yourselves, but out of financial necessity... like me?
May you go in peace. Be well, everyone.
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@Daley, thanks for the update.
I just paid my $10 ($10.58 with taxes/fees) for another 120 days of coverage on PagePlus. I really appreciate that MVNOs have provided a place to get affordable coverage for very lightly used lines (I tend to only use about $1 of my credit each month). I'd miss that.
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I know it's not great news, but it's worth at least being aware of what's going on in the industry when you rely on mobile service through an MVNO. It's why I posted it.
@robartsd it's especially worth knowing for users like yourself who are on one of the Tracfone subsidiary companies and specifically on a Verizon MVNO (Page Plus, Total Wireless, and including some Straight Talk, Tracfone and NET10 plans). More than half of Tracfone's customers are on Verizon towers, and the pool of remaining Verizon MVNOs aren't what I'd call huge hitters. We're talking Ting (Dish), RedPocket, US Mobile, Selectel, Greatcall, Credo, Comcast and Charter as the only remaining established "major" Verizon MVNO players, and Verizon didn't even loosen up their wholesale requirements enough for most new MVNOs historically to even survive past six months before around 2015. Keep in mind, too, not even Comcast and Charter have broken six figure subscriber rates (much like everyone else on this list), Ting didn't add Verizon service until a little over a year ago, and only about half of these MVNOs are Verizon exclusive.
I'm hoping for the best here, but it's mindful to be realistic.
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I wasn't aware that Dish (or Sprint before them?) had purchased Ting.
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DISH, not Sprint. They bought Ting in August 2020 (https://ting.com/blog/ting-mobile-its-a-dish-thing/), the month after they closed on Boost.
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I know it's not great news, but it's worth at least being aware of what's going on in the industry when you rely on mobile service through an MVNO. It's why I posted it.
@robartsd it's especially worth knowing for users like yourself who are on one of the Tracfone subsidiary companies and specifically on a Verizon MVNO (Page Plus, Total Wireless, and including some Straight Talk, Tracfone and NET10 plans). More than half of Tracfone's customers are on Verizon towers, and the pool of remaining Verizon MVNOs aren't what I'd call huge hitters. We're talking Ting (Dish), RedPocket, US Mobile, Selectel, Greatcall, Credo, Comcast and Charter as the only remaining established "major" Verizon MVNO players, and Verizon didn't even loosen up their wholesale requirements enough for most new MVNOs historically to even survive past six months before around 2015. Keep in mind, too, not even Comcast and Charter have broken six figure subscriber rates (much like everyone else on this list), Ting didn't add Verizon service until a little over a year ago, and only about half of these MVNOs are Verizon exclusive.
I'm hoping for the best here, but it's mindful to be realistic.
I just re-upped on Red Pocket for a year. Their $100/year plan quietly added unlimited text and a lot more talk (that I never use). I hope they stick around.
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@robartsd it's especially worth knowing for users like yourself who are on one of the Tracfone subsidiary companies and specifically on a Verizon MVNO (Page Plus, Total Wireless, and including some Straight Talk, Tracfone and NET10 plans). More than half of Tracfone's customers are on Verizon towers, and the pool of remaining Verizon MVNOs aren't what I'd call huge hitters. We're talking Ting (Dish), RedPocket, US Mobile, Selectel, Greatcall, Credo, Comcast and Charter as the only remaining established "major" Verizon MVNO players, and Verizon didn't even loosen up their wholesale requirements enough for most new MVNOs historically to even survive past six months before around 2015. Keep in mind, too, not even Comcast and Charter have broken six figure subscriber rates (much like everyone else on this list), Ting didn't add Verizon service until a little over a year ago, and only about half of these MVNOs are Verizon exclusive.
At least last time I bought a device, I choose one that I could use on any major network (Moto G4 - downside is that it's stuck on Android 7.1.1 at security patch level July 1, 2019), so if the acquisition goes through and Verizon negatively impacts my plan, I can look at MVNOs on other networks relatively easily. The wider issue of a major decrease in total MVNO subscribers is still troubling.
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At least last time I bought a device, I choose one that I could use on any major network (Moto G4 - downside is that it's stuck on Android 7.1.1 at security patch level July 1, 2019), so if the acquisition goes through and Verizon negatively impacts my plan, I can look at MVNOs on other networks relatively easily.
Your only option with that handset is actually going to be T-Mobile by the end of this year, given AT&T doesn't list the G4 as compatable with their VoLTE network... which is a fancy way of saying that it technically is compatible since AT&T's implementation is the generic VoLTE calling stack, but they refuse to support and let it work on the network due to IMEI device whitelists deliberately omitting cheap handsets they didn't sell.
I'm facing the same deadline and headache at the end of the year with my beloved Lumia 640 due to it being a T-Mobile model, only T-Mo broke VoLTE on W10M given their proprietary implementation, so I had to take it to AT&T after the 3G network shutdown. Even though there's a W10M VoLTE stack supported by AT&T, my phone's not on the IMEI whitelist, so I'm screwed unless AT&T indefinitely stays the execution of their 3G network next year like Verizon did this year. Otherwise, my only alternative is to jump into a Lumia 950 in an era where transferring the remaining apps, data and settings to a new device will be herculean, and updating it to LumiaWoA is still not the most battery efficient, has broken camera support, and I'd lose VoLTE voice support anyway, requiring me to use a SIP app to keep receiving phone calls. Worse, as much as I'd like to just downgrade to a flip phone or nothing when this time comes, that may not be a realistic option for either my wife or myself.
There aren't many options if I want/need a handset with a removable battery, third party modern ROM (probably /e/OS at this point), potential VoLTE support, and any potential cross-network usability. No matter what I use, there will be heavy compromise, and I'm likely going to wind up having to port my mobile number to VoIP.ms.
This whole VoLTE interoperability issue just sucks.
T-Mo uses a wholly proprietary implementation, so not many global handsets support it, and it thoroughly breaks VoLTE on third party Android ROMs.
AT&T uses VoLTE IMEI whitelists and a proprietary implementation, and excludes a lot of capable handsets because they weren't sold by them, though some of the handsets they do support won't break VoLTE on third party ROMs.
Verizon is wide open with VoLTE support, even with third party ROMs and has no whitelist, but their primary VoLTE band (13) isn't commonly supported on most GSM LTE handsets, which only leaves bands 2 and 4, which is up in the same chunk of spectrum where T-Mobile's 2G/3G voice network used to be... and you know how well that spectrum worked out for T-Mo with voice services and indoor reception. Plus, you know, the fact that Verizon wants to buy out their largest wholesale MVNO customer.
It's just a hot mess.
The wider issue of a major decrease in total MVNO subscribers is still troubling.
Yeah, it is. I suspect a lot of the shedding of numbers is linked to the economy and pandemic. The majority of users are poor, and the poor are the ones most impacted by the record unemployment and complete lack of any meaningful financial support, so they gotta cut their budget to the bone... which ironically hurts them further, because losing a phone number means losing the ability to try and get another job or unemployment benefits.
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At least last time I bought a device, I choose one that I could use on any major network (Moto G4 - downside is that it's stuck on Android 7.1.1 at security patch level July 1, 2019), so if the acquisition goes through and Verizon negatively impacts my plan, I can look at MVNOs on other networks relatively easily.
Your only option with that handset is actually going to be T-Mobile by the end of this year, given AT&T doesn't list the G4 as compatable with their VoLTE network... which is a fancy way of saying that it technically is compatible since AT&T's implementation is the generic VoLTE calling stack, but they refuse to support and let it work on the network due to IMEI device whitelists deliberately omitting cheap handsets they didn't sell.
As usual, you have a depth of useful knowledge in this space that I find amazing.
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At least last time I bought a device, I choose one that I could use on any major network (Moto G4 - downside is that it's stuck on Android 7.1.1 at security patch level July 1, 2019), so if the acquisition goes through and Verizon negatively impacts my plan, I can look at MVNOs on other networks relatively easily.
Your only option with that handset is actually going to be T-Mobile by the end of this year, given AT&T doesn't list the G4 as compatable with their VoLTE network... which is a fancy way of saying that it technically is compatible since AT&T's implementation is the generic VoLTE calling stack, but they refuse to support and let it work on the network due to IMEI device whitelists deliberately omitting cheap handsets they didn't sell.
As usual, you have a depth of useful knowledge in this space that I find amazing.
It doesn't come easy.
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The wider issue of a major decrease in total MVNO subscribers is still troubling.
Yeah, it is. I suspect a lot of the shedding of numbers is linked to the economy and pandemic. The majority of users are poor, and the poor are the ones most impacted by the record unemployment and complete lack of any meaningful financial support, so they gotta cut their budget to the bone... which ironically hurts them further, because losing a phone number means losing the ability to try and get another job or unemployment benefits.
Conversely, for a lot of households the pandemic has meant little financial stress and less pressure on household spending - no restaurants, no vacations, no dry cleaning work clothes - meaning that the category is also squeezed on the top from people moving up into traditional postpaid plans for the phone offers or free streaming services.
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The wider issue of a major decrease in total MVNO subscribers is still troubling.
Yeah, it is. I suspect a lot of the shedding of numbers is linked to the economy and pandemic. The majority of users are poor, and the poor are the ones most impacted by the record unemployment and complete lack of any meaningful financial support, so they gotta cut their budget to the bone... which ironically hurts them further, because losing a phone number means losing the ability to try and get another job or unemployment benefits.
Conversely, for a lot of households the pandemic has meant little financial stress and less pressure on household spending - no restaurants, no vacations, no dry cleaning work clothes - meaning that the category is also squeezed on the top from people moving up into traditional postpaid plans for the phone offers or free streaming services.
Yup... not as huge a boom during the pandemic for MVNOs as expected, just churn, and the squeeze from both ends probably isn't helping, and then coupled with the potential of Verizon basically converting about a quarter of the entire US MVNO market into direct prepaid with them? It's not... encouraging... longer term.
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We need meaningful telecom reform and regulation in this country for the sake of the user, but I'm not holding my breath. In a way, this is a bit of a screed, yelling into the darkness knowing that it won't do any good.
What reform do you think would be necessary?
Just interested as we've got a similar trend here with the rise of MNO sub-brands, the recent merger of two major telco companies and the acquisition of the largest MVNO by it's wholesale carrier. Most of the major remaining MVNOs either also offer fixed-line internet services or are part of a major retailer (supermarkets in particular).
I'm bearish on the longer-term prospects for many independent MVNOs because the margins have to be super thin when the ARPU is so low.
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Okay I just looked at tracfone and business practices aside, is it just me or have they really dropped prices lately? I haven't checked them since maybe 2012 but I don't recall seeing plans I would actually consider buying (if it weren't for the lack of international roaming).
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We need meaningful telecom reform and regulation in this country for the sake of the user, but I'm not holding my breath. In a way, this is a bit of a screed, yelling into the darkness knowing that it won't do any good.
What reform do you think would be necessary?
The sort of reform that will likely never happen in either of our countries, and general talk that would probably get plenty of angry letters even from this crowd. Spectrum is a finite resource. Make it a utility. Regulate it. Mandate wholesale access.
Okay I just looked at tracfone and business practices aside, is it just me or have they really dropped prices lately?
Not just them, there were some unusual wholesale price drops by both AT&T and Verizon late last year. Nearly everyone's offering 3GB plans for under $20 now. I still don't know how to synthesize that bit into the bigger picture. I don't keep up with this stuff as much as I used to.
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So uuh... looking for a late 2021 update on the Verizon MVNO thing.
Am a loyal (and unwilling to waver due to being an on call hospital employee) iPhone user, who needs to get newer than a 6S here pretty soon. Trying to figure out what my best option is going to be. Have Red Pocket right now that got a phone unlocked from an old Walmart plan black Friday deal. Ironically the other Walmart plan phone is unable to be unlocked and neither walmart nor Red Pocket can figure out what the issue is. So that makes me a bit gun shy of ever considering doing something similar going forward. Haven't seen any great MVNO phone deals either. I do not require Verizon as a tower service or anything special for coverage.
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So uuh... looking for a late 2021 update on the Verizon MVNO thing.
Am a loyal (and unwilling to waver due to being an on call hospital employee) iPhone user, who needs to get newer than a 6S here pretty soon. Trying to figure out what my best option is going to be. Have Red Pocket right now that got a phone unlocked from an old Walmart plan black Friday deal. Ironically the other Walmart plan phone is unable to be unlocked and neither walmart nor Red Pocket can figure out what the issue is. So that makes me a bit gun shy of ever considering doing something similar going forward. Haven't seen any great MVNO phone deals either. I do not require Verizon as a tower service or anything special for coverage.
Buy a carrier unlocked used/refurbished handset if you're looking to save money, otherwise eat the cost of new unlocked because you only get discounts with subsidies and carrier lockdown. Swappa sells used equipment, and Backmarket and Glyde will have refurbished handsets with warranties up to a year. Given the repair lockdowns and difficulty of even replacing batteries with aftermarket in the newer handsets and feature breakage of aftermarket screens, if there's any sort of warranty, it's probably a pretty safe bet at this point. Also, I believe any newer generation than what you have of the US market handsets that's unlocked at this point is going to be compatible with the big three, so you should be able to go with AT&T, T-Mobile or Verizon.
As for MVNOs, I'm still punting people to RedPocket, given their pricing model and plan availability on all three networks, and their pricing being competitive with even the cheapest of T-Mobile plans. They're also officially on the Apple blessed carrier list now. This said, it feels weird to say it, but Verizon is the least objectionable network of the three currently... and that's despite the fact Verizon's working to buy out Tracfone and all its sub-brands, which is basically going to put more than half of the entire US MVNO market directly under Verizon's thumb, and take away the pressure of lower competitive wholesale pricing across the board.
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I've got 4 lines on Total Wireless for $95/month. I have a 5th line on Straight Talk, so total monthly is about $150
Mint Mobile is running a special $45 for 3 months or $15/month then 3 months free.
Renewal is $15/month if you prepay for 1 year. This would put my total monthly cell to $75, saving $75/month $900/year.
Wondering what others experience is with Mint. It uses T-Mobile's network which I've never used before.
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DW uses Mint mobile -- it works fine for her in our area -- $15 a month if prepaid for a year (we asked for a discount when renewing and they allowed us a $20 or so credit)
There have been no unresolvable issues
I use Red Pocket -- it works fine for us in our area (I chose the ATT version)
There have been no unresolvable issues
Pro tip -- Buy Red Pocket through their ebay store. They offer like a 30% discount over their regular store price
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Definitely check the maps and with local friends to see if T-Mo's coverage will work for you. It's been a few years, but I found them pretty useless outside of highly populated areas and interstate corridors.
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Thanks for the tip on Redpocket on E-bay. They definitely have lower add on fees than Mint, which adds up over 5 lines. Also, I think its good that you can choose which network i.e. Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile. I assume Verizon will have the best coverage overall? We'll be traveling a lot for work, so the best coverage in the most areas will be very important for us.
I'm thinking Mint for my oldest two for the 6 month plan that is only $57 each. They will be paying for their phones after this.
I'll probably do Redpocket for the three lines I'll continue to pay for.
I'll get the $84/year plan for my youngest….she doesn't need much if any data so 1GB/month should be fine.
I'll get the $180 plan for me with 3GB and the $300 plan for wife with 20GB….she uses A LOT of data in part due to extensive face time with her overseas family.
Dropping the two lines and switching carriers will change my yearly cost from $1810 to under $600, or $47/month plus tax.
I love MMM.
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I'll get the $84/year plan for my youngest….she doesn't need much if any data so 1GB/month should be fine.
I'll get the $180 plan for me with 3GB and the $300 plan for wife with 20GB….she uses A LOT of data in part due to extensive face time with her overseas family.
Is she using facetime on cellular? Wifi doesn't count toward your data, of course.
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IP Daley,
I've been an Airvoice Wireless customer for years and about a month ago we got a cryptic text about 3G networks going away, so we needed to fill out a form to get a new 5G SIM card mailed out to us asap. After a few weeks the SIM arrived and the switch seemed pretty painless...except I realized after a week or so that I could no longer make or receive calls. Text & data work, oddly: just not calls.
If I reset all the network connections on the phone & typed in all the APN info...I could make one call before the problem resurfaced. I think the problem is that my phone (Pixel 2XL) isn't 5G capable? I dunno.
Anyway, after a week of trying to fix this with Airvoice & about to buy a new phone, I stumbled on a workaround: if I change back to "3G" instead of "LTE preferred" it allows me to make calls. No idea why this would change anything.
I'm concerned about losing the ability to make a call when out driving the kids somewhere, now that the 3G network on AT&T is apparently sunsetted. Any problem with just 'sending it' with the phone as-is?
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What's LTE coverage in your area like?
If you can activate VoLTE on your current phone it should be OK to continue making calls over LTE (why Americans don't call it 4G I have no idea).
Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
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LTE coverage is excellent in the area: it's just that when I select that network preference, I can't call since putting the new SIM in.
Airvoice's customer service also suggested toggling on VoLTE but it doesn't appear to be an option to select from any of the settings I've searched through.
I've googled a bit and it seems to be a bit of finger pointing: the carrier is saying the phone manufacturer has to enable it, and Google is stating the carrier has to make it available.
https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/118319672/how-to-enable-volte-vowifi-on-pixel-2-xl?hl=en#:~:text=Pixel%202%20has%20volte%20and,network%3E%20Enable%20the%20Volte%20option.
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If I reset all the network connections on the phone & typed in all the APN info...I could make one call before the problem resurfaced. I think the problem is that my phone (Pixel 2XL) isn't 5G capable? I dunno.
Anyway, after a week of trying to fix this with Airvoice & about to buy a new phone, I stumbled on a workaround: if I change back to "3G" instead of "LTE preferred" it allows me to make calls. No idea why this would change anything.
As of February 22, 2022, AT&T has started to shut down their 3G network (https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1324171) forcing people over to VoLTE only calling.
Supposedly, the Pixel 2XL is supported (https://www.att.com/idpassets/images/support/pdf/Devices-Working-on-ATT-Network.pdf) post LTE transition, though AT&T's confidence in any of these models working is literally pre-warned with the very large and ominous phrase on the first page, "Models listed here are not guaranteed to work on the AT&T network." As expected from such a rousing vote of confidence, the reality of the transition has been less than optimal (https://bestmvno.com/featured/atts-3g-shutdown-unintended-outages/), especially for MVNO customers.
Best thing I can recommend would be forcing the network mode to LTE only (disable any and all network access that isn't LTE in the network profile) and rebooting to see if it helps and pulls proper IMS registration. If it does, it's fixed and you're good. If not, I'd recommend switching MVNOs to a Verizon or T-Mobile based network before replacing phones given the Pixel 2XL should support VoLTE calling on those networks, and I'd make the same network restriction of LTE only either way just to make sure everything is working properly before their own legacy network shutdowns. RedPocket offers service on all three major networks, and they have equal or better plans than Airvoice on both the Verizon and T-Mobile networks. Far cheaper and more environmentally friendly to buy a new SIM card and port your number than replace a perfectly usable phone because [gestures widely] AT&T.
Edit: You can also go into the *#*#4636#*#* service menu to make sure that VoLTE is enabled in the OS, but I'd be careful poking around in those service menus too deep, you can break stuff.
The VoLTE only calling transition in this country is an absolute flaming trainwreck, and it's only going to get worse throughout the rest of the year. Frankly, I was so disappointed with the early stages of the AT&T network shutdown and the handset issues and the lack of third party ROM support and the network attacks and billing issues some AT&T MVNOs had last fall, I just abandoned using AT&T for my own MVNO usage entirely, and warn people off of switching to them unless they already have known good and proven working AT&T compatible VoLTE phone equipment already. T-Mobile is a dumpster fire of spectrum licensing here in Oklahoma, among other problems, so we switched to a Verizon MVNO where crap just works... or just works about as well as you can hope for any more in this day and age. Never thought the day would come when Verizon would be considered the least terrible network option, yet here we are.
Yay planned obsolescence!
Hope this helps.
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I know I had to turn VoLTE carrier check off for my VoLTE to work properly, but I'm not using a Pixel for YMMV.
Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
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I couldn't find a 4g flip phone for my 86 year old mother (that she could actually figure out how to use), so she ended up with a freakin' Jitterbug... I can't say I'm happy with that, but she can afford it, and she can actually use it. It's tough getting old!
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I couldn't find a 4g flip phone for my 86 year old mother (that she could actually figure out how to use), so she ended up with a freakin' Jitterbug... I can't say I'm happy with that, but she can afford it, and she can actually use it. It's tough getting old!
Yeah, feature phones are a dying market, sadly, and the OS options for those feature phones due to VoLTE calling requirements haven't been kind to the user. Everyone in the phone industry only wants to make buttonless smartyphones anymore.
Well, if Android's all you got to work with, at least there's the BaldPhone launcher (https://baldphone.com/). I've talked with Uriah Mandel, he's a good egg for doing the work he has and deserves more recognition for it. The launcher honestly deserves more exposure, so more people know about it, too. The UI even has Parkinson's friendly touchscreen input controls.
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As of February 22, 2022, AT&T has started to shut down their 3G network (https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1324171) forcing people over to VoLTE only calling.
Supposedly, the Pixel 2XL is supported (https://www.att.com/idpassets/images/support/pdf/Devices-Working-on-ATT-Network.pdf) post LTE transition, though AT&T's confidence in any of these models working is literally pre-warned with the very large and ominous phrase on the first page, "Models listed here are not guaranteed to work on the AT&T network." As expected from such a rousing vote of confidence, the reality of the transition has been less than optimal (https://bestmvno.com/featured/atts-3g-shutdown-unintended-outages/), especially for MVNO customers.
Best thing I can recommend would be forcing the network mode to LTE only (disable any and all network access that isn't LTE in the network profile) and rebooting to see if it helps and pulls proper IMS registration. If it does, it's fixed and you're good. If not, I'd recommend switching MVNOs to a Verizon or T-Mobile based network before replacing phones given the Pixel 2XL should support VoLTE calling on those networks, and I'd make the same network restriction of LTE only either way just to make sure everything is working properly before their own legacy network shutdowns. RedPocket offers service on all three major networks, and they have equal or better plans than Airvoice on both the Verizon and T-Mobile networks. Far cheaper and more environmentally friendly to buy a new SIM card and port your number than replace a perfectly usable phone because [gestures widely] AT&T.
Edit: You can also go into the *#*#4636#*#* service menu to make sure that VoLTE is enabled in the OS, but I'd be careful poking around in those service menus too deep, you can break stuff.
Thanks so much for this info. I looked again in the settings and found two unfortunate bits. Looking at the *#*#4636#*#* menu, it looks like VoLTE is not provisioned on the phone (see attachment). I went into that service menu and the toggle option is greyed out for me: seems I can't turn it on from this menu.
I tried to select LTE only but I only see options for "Preferred network type:"... "LTE (recommended)" and then "3G".
The phone & data are working fine now but it seems like that first link you shared implies that maybe this functionality will be short lived and then I'll be without coverage suddenly. Is that correct?
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I don't know if this is an issue (maybe @Daley will know), but do carriers even provide VoLTE access to it's MVNOs? Presumably they'd have to if they're killing 3G.
I say this because two of the big three telcos here restrict VoLTE to their own direct customers only and the third only does for postpaid MVNO customers. Although 3G here remains active until at least June 2024. VoLTE and VoWiFi access are part of why I'm currently using a big three provider...I'm still paying a fair price so whatever.
What 4G bands is your device compatible with? If it's AT&T compatible, will it also have the bands for T-Mobile and Verizon? If it's as easy as popping in another carrier's SIM then great.
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I don't know if this is an issue (maybe @Daley will know), but do carriers even provide VoLTE access to it's MVNOs? Presumably they'd have to if they're killing 3G.
The 3G shutdown finally hit us yesterday morning. We're on Airvoice (an AT&T MVNO), and I had already purchased a Pixel 3a for DW, and it's up and running just fine--VoLTE calls, sms, data, etc. Oddly enough, our kid's phone on RedPocket (also an AT&T MVNO still appears to have working calls-over-3G, for now.
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Thanks so much for this info. I looked again in the settings and found two unfortunate bits. Looking at the *#*#4636#*#* menu, it looks like VoLTE is not provisioned on the phone (see attachment). I went into that service menu and the toggle option is greyed out for me: seems I can't turn it on from this menu.
I tried to select LTE only but I only see options for "Preferred network type:"... "LTE (recommended)" and then "3G".
The phone & data are working fine now but it seems like that first link you shared implies that maybe this functionality will be short lived and then I'll be without coverage suddenly. Is that correct?
Correct. If you have the 3G network set as preferred as it appears in your screenshot, it makes sense that the VoLTE option is currently grayed out. I would try setting it to at least LTE preferred, reboot, and go back into the INFO (4636) menu to see if you have the option to enable VoLTE provisioning at that point. But yes, it may be working now in 3G mode, but eventually it won't once they shut your local 3G towers down if you can't get VoLTE working... and that time is dwindling quickly.
Make sure you're fully updated and running the last Android update on the thing from December 2020, IIRC, too.
Alternately, given you're on a Pixel 2XL Taimen/G011C, and the OS is end of life and if you're sufficiently technically capable to follow instructions and futz with technology, you can get more current builds of Android through LineageOS (https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/taimen/install), which will absolutely have the "LTE only" option in your network settings. Free firmware upgrade for a bit of effort with some security updates and the possibility of it actually working better with VoLTE and AT&T.
Or... just go to a Verizon or T-Mobile MVNO instead given the phone model is supposed to be supported and VoLTE capable on all three networks. If you want to update your firmware to LineageOS, however, I'd go Verizon. T-Mobile VoLTE support with third party ROMs are hit and miss given how T-Mo implements the service on their network. Besides, you're probably going to get better coverage from Verizon than T-Mo anyway. Redpocket's a very reasonably priced Verizon MVNO, and you'll find equal priced plans there to what Airvoice is currently offering.
I don't know if this is an issue (maybe @Daley will know), but do carriers even provide VoLTE access to it's MVNOs? Presumably they'd have to if they're killing 3G.
Yeah, VoLTE is now standard with all US based MVNOs given the 3G network shutdowns. What isn't consistently offered with all MVNOs is Voice over WiFi.
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We've been living in Korea for the last three years and moving back to the US this summer. Wife and I have Korean Samsung models. How do we check for US compatibility?
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We've been living in Korea for the last three years and moving back to the US this summer. Wife and I have Korean Samsung models. How do we check for US compatibility?
AT&T has published a list here: https://www.att.com/idpassets/images/support/pdf/Devices-Working-on-ATT-Network.pdf
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Cell Phone Bands https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/cell-phone-networks-and-frequencies-explained
search https://www.phonescoop.com/
look at phone's Network Bands
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We used Ting for several years before we moved. Is it still a good option? We will be living in Kansas for the next couple years.
My Samsung does not appear to be US compatible. AT&T and Ting both said no. Long time ago I recall there being a website where you could compare models and get really specific on features to narrow down the phone you want. Any idea what that site is? I really miss the Moto I used to have.
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We used Ting for several years before we moved. Is it still a good option? We will be living in Kansas for the next couple years.
Ting is owned by Dish Networks now and uses Verizon primarily now and completely restructured their pricing model though they're one of the few who still offers international roaming, YMMV. The go-to MVNO I recommend these days is RedPocket as a good one size fits most, given they have a range of competitively priced monthly and annual plans on all three major networks at the same price points across the board (yes, three for all intents and purposes - Sprint no longer exists as a separate network entity from T-Mobile).
Best coverage for Kansas is going to be either AT&T or Verizon, but given AT&T's track record and operational policies lately, along with phone compatibility restrictions and general other nonsense, I'd steer you towards Verizon as the least crappy network currently for anyone starting from scratch, and given the international roaming shift to Verizon and LTE band 13 for traveling to this country and how locked down AT&T's network is now with their IMEI whitelisting, I don't blame the industry. If you do your own research for network coverage, restrict coverage to LTE only and ignore either the 3G or 5G networks, voice coverage is LTE only these days or will be soon enough.
My Samsung does not appear to be US compatible. AT&T and Ting both said no. Long time ago I recall there being a website where you could compare models and get really specific on features to narrow down the phone you want. Any idea what that site is? I really miss the Moto I used to have.
Quick cheat-sheet of what the major important LTE bands are with each carrier in this country:
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Cheat-sheet-which-4G-LTE-bands-do-AT-T-Verizon-T-Mobile-and-Sprint-use-in-the-USA_id77933 (https://www.phonearena.com/news/Cheat-sheet-which-4G-LTE-bands-do-AT-T-Verizon-T-Mobile-and-Sprint-use-in-the-USA_id77933)
Network coverage maps (in no particular order):
https://www.cellmapper.net/ (https://www.cellmapper.net/)
https://www.upphone.com/coverage-map/ (https://www.upphone.com/coverage-map/)
https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/Coverage (https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/Coverage)
Phone finders by feature (in no particular order):
https://www.phonearena.com/phones (https://www.phonearena.com/phones)
https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/finder.php (https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/finder.php)
https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3 (https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3)
https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Phones (https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Phones)
MVNO phone plan comparison tool:
https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones (https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones)
Unofficially, I've been recommending Whistleout as a one-stop shop for research and information anymore to replace me, though their money making and referral stuff is starting to get a wee bit aggressive.
As for phone recommendations, there's really not much difference anymore... they're mostly all homogeneous amorphous black rectangles now where the competing features are how many ports and buttons can be removed before the customer balks.
Samsung's promising longer Android OS updates than anyone else these days with some of their phones with their own silicon, but they haven't actually had any phones on the market long enough to show how far they'll make good on that promise, or how many timeline cheats and caveats they'll use to cut that time back. The biggest caveat with Samsung devices for long term usage is their proprietary VoLTE stack implementation and custom silicon, which basically kills third party ROM support for support and updates post official support... and given the ability for Android smartphones from 2016 still being viable provided they have VoLTE support and you're running an third party ROM for security updates and still keep up with most software today... worth a long term consideration look when shopping.
I personally recommend either Nokia or Motorola these days, and suggest taking over the warranty and firmware updates post official support, which means shopping with LineageOS support in mind. If you're doing Verizon, I'd recommend either the Moto G7 XT1962-1, G7 Power XT1955-5, or Z2 Force XT1789-04 as the best bang-for-buck used models with existing LineageOS support as they're old enough that official firmware updates are either finished or about finished. In theory, those should work for either AT&T or Verizon, but as you're seeing, your mileage may vary with the AT&T support anymore and whether you're willing to do third party firmware flashing.
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Big help as always Daley, thanks. I'll do some homework this week and figure out what I need.
I personally recommend either Nokia or Motorola these days, and suggest taking over the warranty and firmware updates post official support, which means shopping with LineageOS support in mind. If you're doing Verizon, I'd recommend either the Moto G7 XT1962-1, G7 Power XT1955-5, or Z2 Force XT1789-04 as the best bang-for-buck used models with existing LineageOS support as they're old enough that official firmware updates are either finished or about finished. In theory, those should work for either AT&T or Verizon, but as you're seeing, your mileage may vary with the AT&T support anymore and whether you're willing to do third party firmware flashing.
I had a Moto G5 Plus before we came to Korea and ended up giving it to my son as a Wifi-only device after I broke the SIM slot. The battery lasted forever and it had almost no bloatware so I got a lot of useable storage. If the model still has some life left in it I'll get another, or whatever looks the most like it.
If Ting is using Verizon's equipment now, does that mean I need to watch out for GSM vs CDMA?
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Correct. If you have the 3G network set as preferred as it appears in your screenshot, it makes sense that the VoLTE option is currently grayed out. I would try setting it to at least LTE preferred, reboot, and go back into the INFO (4636) menu to see if you have the option to enable VoLTE provisioning at that point. But yes, it may be working now in 3G mode, but eventually it won't once they shut your local 3G towers down if you can't get VoLTE working... and that time is dwindling quickly.
Make sure you're fully updated and running the last Android update on the thing from December 2020, IIRC, too.
Unfortunately, still not able to switch VoLTE in the 4636 menu after having LTE preferred selected after a reboot.
Checked and phone has the lastest update from 2020, so no luck there.
Going to try installing new software from your link.
As far as going to another carrier, if I can't get VoLTE to work on my phone, wouldn't I run into the same problem with them? Apologies if that question is very basic: just not following that part.
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If Ting is using Verizon's equipment now, does that mean I need to watch out for GSM vs CDMA?
Not really anymore. It's all about LTE band support these days (LTE is 4G GSM) as T-Mobile's already about shut down all of Sprint's legacy network and Verizon will be shutting off their 3G CDMA network at the end of the year. If you want to use Verizon, you'll just need LTE band 13 on the phone to activate.
Going to try installing new software from your link.
I'd recommend switching carriers before switching firmware, honestly. Explanation as to why the firmware switch is a long shot fix after the next quote. If you want to, anyway...
Read the instructions a couple three times first, make sure you have all the ADB stuff installed to your system. Use the recommended GApps package that Lineage suggests for Android 11, you should be fine. Just download everything in advance before getting started, including a factory OEM image to revert to if necessary (https://developers.google.com/android/images) (just in case), and do MD5 error checking to make sure the downloaded packages are good. The Pixel phones are some of the easier to flash, honestly. Take your time, read thoroughly (including links), and you should be good... but, if you're uncertain or confused with anything, don't take the risk. At least the factory firmware is Android 11, and it's only 16 months out of date. I've seen worse.
If you want to take this opportunity to part ways from Google being all up in your data, you can always go LineageOS for microG instead (https://lineage.microg.org/). This path requires sacrifices, though.
As far as going to another carrier, if I can't get VoLTE to work on my phone, wouldn't I run into the same problem with them? Apologies if that question is very basic: just not following that part.
Not really, no. The phone has official VoLTE support/blessing on all three networks. This means the VoLTE problem is likely on AT&T/Airvoice's end specifically, and either a problem with the new SIM card (unlikely) or AT&T's IMEI whitelist misidentifying your phone model and refusing to allow for VoLTE provisioning (more likely). You can try the firmware update, but it's honestly a long shot to get things working, given the IMEI is a fixed and immutable number tied to the hardware. Turning off all the wireless network modems but the LTE ones to try and force the phone to provision for VoLTE is a long shot, at best. This isn't to say getting more current and secure firmware isn't a good thing in general for the device no matter which carrier you fall back to, but even if it doesn't work for AT&T, the G011C has LTE band 13, so stuff should just work on Verizon, but I'd do an IMEI check first anyway (https://www.verizon.com/bring-your-own-device/imei-esn-meid/) just to be certain.
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Are bands 2, 4 and 5 still in widespread use by US carriers? They still seem common enough on 'world market' phones.
Surely they need to have some suitable bands for foreigners roaming on US networks with their phones?
Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
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AT&T's IMEI whitelist misidentifying your phone model and refusing to allow for VoLTE provisioning (more likely).
By the way, this reason quoted right here is why AT&T is such a frustrating mobile carrier now. Whitelists/Blacklists are imperfect at best, and can contain errors with whitelists being far more aggressively prohibitive than blacklists and prone to accidental exclusion. AT&T is using a pretty bog standard IMS/VoLTE provisioning, but they're using IMEI whitelists to dictate who can actually connect to the voice network based on specific phone models, whether the phone can actually support VoLTE calling or not.
The reality of this decision means that even if a Verizon or T-Mobile branded and unlocked or global handset has support for AT&T's major LTE bands and VoLTE support, it may not actually work on AT&T. You'll note, the AT&T approved device list is mostly US flagship phones, US-based "global" handsets, or AT&T exclusive models. Intentionally or not, it effectively behaves as vendor lock-in that kills handset portability between US carriers, and blocks perfectly fine SIM unlocked phones that can and should work on their network from working.
Surely they need to have some suitable bands for foreigners roaming on US networks with their phones?
Like I said, there's a reason why most modern actual global/international handsets are just including LTE Band 13 support now. Verizon doesn't give a crap what phone you bring to their network anymore so long as the phone is SIM unlocked, not on a blacklist, and has support for their near globally exclusive C block Band 13 and IMS provisioning support to activate the SIM.
To kill handset interoperability in an era of what should be near universal handset interoperability here in the US:
-AT&T has restricted VoLTE calling support to an IMEI whitelist;
-T-Mobile has restricted VoLTE calling support through a non-standard implementation that requires software signatures;
-Verizon has restricted VoLTE calling support through the requirement of the phone supporting LTE Band 13, a band exclusive to Verizon in the US.
Of this, Verizon is the easiest to work around for international travel now, and most global flagships are accommodating for it. It also makes Verizon the most third party ROM support friendly, too. The 2020's are gonna go down as the "not the Onion" decade for all the events and twists it's held.
There's supposed to be roaming friendly and interoperability agreements between carriers here for bands 2/4/5 IIRC, but mobile networks are gonna mobile network.
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Of this, Verizon is the easiest to work around for international travel now, and most global flagships are accommodating for it. It also makes Verizon the most third party ROM support friendly, too. The 2020's are gonna go down as the "not the Onion" decade for all the events and twists it's held.
There's supposed to be roaming friendly and interoperability agreements between carriers here for bands 2/4/5 IIRC, but mobile networks are gonna mobile network.
This surprises me greatly, especially given Verizon's history of blocking any bootloader unlocking on their phones
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Of this, Verizon is the easiest to work around for international travel now, and most global flagships are accommodating for it. It also makes Verizon the most third party ROM support friendly, too. The 2020's are gonna go down as the "not the Onion" decade for all the events and twists it's held.
There's supposed to be roaming friendly and interoperability agreements between carriers here for bands 2/4/5 IIRC, but mobile networks are gonna mobile network.
This surprises me greatly, especially given Verizon's history of blocking any bootloader unlocking on their phones
Oh yeah, they still block bootloader unlocking on their branded devices (just like AT&T and T-Mobile does), but there's no software hoop jumping or incomplete whitelist nonsense for non-carrier branded devices to potentially prevent them from working once you get the third party firmware on there. It's a "most third party ROM support friendly" distinction built upon a list of technicalities.
Like I said, it reads like an Onion article: Notoriously restrictive mobile network becomes most friendly towards third party firmware and international travelers by being less restrictive on VoLTE requirements than all other mobile networks so long as your handset supports their exclusive network frequency.
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Thanks for all the help, IP Daley. I'm debating switching carriers & porting my number or just using this excuse to buy a newer-used phone.
I saw a reddit thread saying I could contact my carrier & asking them to update their line provisioning to match my IMEI number...any chance this is worth my time with either Airvoice or AT&T?
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Thanks for all the help, IP Daley. I'm debating switching carriers & porting my number or just using this excuse to buy a newer-used phone.
I saw a reddit thread saying I could contact my carrier & asking them to update their line provisioning to match my IMEI number...any chance this is worth my time with either Airvoice or AT&T?
Don't buy a new phone if you can help it. If the current one is still functional in every way but working with AT&T specifically, it's still got life left. It's more environmentally friendly swapping SIM cards than entire phones. Use it up, wear it out, and choose a provider who'll let you potentially do that if the existing one won't. You can probably go and get a Redpocket new account kit with a CDMA card from Target today. Then you just have to contact Airvoice to get the account info necessary to port your number out.
You can also try to get Airvoice to try and get AT&T to update the line provisioning, but given that hasn't even been on Airvoice's radar with all the support you've gotten from them already...? Last I've heard and understood, the only people who can fix IMEI whitelist provisioning "errors" are support staff helping loudly complaining customers with full-blown AT&T postpaid accounts. Prepaid and MVNO people doing BYOD have pretty much been left flapping in the breeze.
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About voice calls: ymmv- in the last couple of months, I’ve averaged about 5 minutes of voice usage (though about 80 GB of data). When I make the rare voice call using a phone number, I primarily, do by my Google Voice number, that uses data. Though, I actually prefer to use Facebook Messenger voice calls- seems like much clearer than VZW and Google Voice
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Daley! You helped me save hundreds, thousands of dollars over the last ten years! Thank you!
I have been using Airvoice pay as you go for my fams 3 lines ( I do the 10/mo and the other 2 pay 10$ about every 90 days)
Airvoice customer service has been atrocious this year, so many problems (expiring sim cards, no answer, websites down, service was down for 5 days for unknown reasons, omg)
Its so cheap though! Right now the website is down, I spent over an hour on hold, theyfinally answered and told me to call back tomorrow)
What is the next best recommendation? Least expensive, least hassle? is there a current guide thread here?
Thank you
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Daley! You helped me save hundreds, thousands of dollars over the last ten years! Thank you!
I have been using Airvoice pay as you go for my fams 3 lines ( I do the 10/mo and the other 2 pay 10$ about every 90 days)
Airvoice customer service has been atrocious this year, so many problems (expiring sim cards, no answer, websites down, service was down for 5 days for unknown reasons, omg)
Its so cheap though! Right now the website is down, I spent over an hour on hold, theyfinally answered and told me to call back tomorrow)
What is the next best recommendation? Least expensive, least hassle? is there a current guide thread here?
I'm not Daley, but I can contribute an answer. I agree that Airvoice's customer service has become really bad. Earlier this year, they were doing some maintenance on their payment systems, right as DW's phone was about to renew. With the payment systems down, her service was suspended, and they couldn't get it re-enabled until several days later.
Our kids' phones are on RedPocket, one on the $30/year plan, the other on the $60/year plan. So far, we've had no complaints about their service, and the low tiers are very nicely affordable.
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I'm not Daley, but I can contribute an answer. I agree that Airvoice's customer service has become really bad. Earlier this year, they were doing some maintenance on their payment systems, right as DW's phone was about to renew. With the payment systems down, her service was suspended, and they couldn't get it re-enabled until several days later.
Our kids' phones are on RedPocket, one on the $30/year plan, the other on the $60/year plan. So far, we've had no complaints about their service, and the low tiers are very nicely affordable.
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this happened to me, I was without cell service for 5 days. I was so frustrated. Redpocket doesnt have a comparable 10$ for 90 days thing so Im reluctant to switch, even though airvoice is such a major hassle. but i think I am going to have to. their website is down and the only way to add money to the pay as you go is call, which takes at least an hour, and I pay by the minute on my voip too. I guess 10 years on airvoice at an average of 20$ a month is as good as i could do, and its over.
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Heya N, sorry for the slow response. Probably a bit too late at this point, but here it is anyway. I really don't kick around here much anymore.
What is the next best recommendation? Least expensive, least hassle? is there a current guide thread here?
As for my last official advice at this point for the community, @zolotiyeruki basically hit it.
RedPocket. Just RedPocket.
Their pricing is consistent across all networks with 95% of their plans, their plan pricing is competitive with some of the cheapest options out there, and they offer plans on all three major networks. It's the one-size MVNO answer I've always hoped for, because they have enough plan options to cover most people's needs and those options are on all the networks. Something for everyone. Support can be hit or miss occasionally, but mostly due to wait times.
Of those options for you specifically, I'd recommend their $60/year Ebay exclusive plan on the GSMA network as a substitute. Not as cheap, but way way more for the money than what you're getting for PAYGO, what with the 100 minutes, 100 SMS, and 500MB of data you get allotted per month at that price.
If you still don't want to swing the extra $1.67/month/line and want to keep rocking the mobile phone austerity on the AT&T network with some rollover for the unused stuff, H2O Wireless still has PAYGO. Their per minute and SMS charges are half of what you're paying over at Airvoice, plus they offer a 10% discount for autopay, but their support is pretty hit and miss as well. C'est la vie. Price of paying the absolute least amount you can.
But seriously, RedPocket is fine. $5/month is fine. And not having to be stingy with your call time or texting can be nice, too.
Hasty bananas, y'all.
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I'm still enjoying Red Pocket, but DH was milking the credit he'd built up over the years with Airvoice's $10/quarter plan.
Their fancy new website, while it looks pretty, would not allow me to renew his plan on Sunday, and since their customer service is also closed on Sunday, his line was disconnected and the $160+ credit was lost. On Monday I managed to get new login info and get the line reactivated, but had to send an email with a screenshot of his credit and an explanation of what happened.
We'll see if he ever gets his credit back, but he's ticked off enough that he will probably ditch Airvoice soon and go Red Pocket.
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Saw on a Bogleheads thread from last year about someone having some frustrations with Red Pocket:
I rarely run out of data on my Red Pocket Verizon 1000 Minutes, Unlimited Texts & 1GB Data plan but did so this month. In the past you could purchase 100MB for $2 or 250MB for $5. Now the only options are 1GB for $10 or 2GB for $20. If you run out of data just before your monthly plan renews this becomes an expensive proposition. The other bad issue is that when you run out of data, you are no longer able to receive texts unless you're on wifi.
Looks like I'll be switching providers when my plan expires in July.
Are forum members here still happy with Red Pocket or have they migrated to somewhere else?
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Current plans have unlimited talk/text, and they throttle the data speed after the plan limit. DH has the 1GB GSM plan and his allows an extra 100MB of high speed data for $2 (see attached). So far he hasn't bumped into the limit, though.
There are different prices now for CDMA (Verizon) and GSM (ATT). I asked about CDMA pricing and the minimum plan is $20/month for 5GB. Since he's not on a CDMA plan, I don't know what their add on for additional high speed data is.
I'm on Visible for now at $15 for unlimited, but that's running out in a month. New price is $25. Not sure what I'll do.
ETA: I forgot they offer annual plans on eBay, and I don't believe they offer the throttled data after hitting the limit, they just cut you off. Unfortunately, I have no way of telling what their top up prices are since I don't have a plan. You could try a chat.
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Saw on a Bogleheads thread from last year about someone having some frustrations with Red Pocket:
I rarely run out of data on my Red Pocket Verizon 1000 Minutes, Unlimited Texts & 1GB Data plan but did so this month. In the past you could purchase 100MB for $2 or 250MB for $5. Now the only options are 1GB for $10 or 2GB for $20. If you run out of data just before your monthly plan renews this becomes an expensive proposition. The other bad issue is that when you run out of data, you are no longer able to receive texts unless you're on wifi.
Looks like I'll be switching providers when my plan expires in July.
Are forum members here still happy with Red Pocket or have they migrated to somewhere else?
First, they'd only lose MMS, not SMS. Over-length SMS sent as MMS instead of multi-part SMS will do that, or you're using iMessage or a messaging app, there's your problem.
Yes, the RedPocket plans on Verizon no longer have the cheaper high-speed data add-ons, changes on the back-end with deals between MVNOs and MNOs happen... and it's no surprise that Verizon's doing jerk things with their wholesalers after they got control of America Movil's MVNOs. Don't blame RedPocket for this, blame Verizon and the loss of large wholesaler negotiation leverage. After all, RP's still offering the cheaper data add-ons with their AT&T and T-Mobile plans.
However, RedPocket's also changed their plans up enough that you can now get a near identical plan to their annual 1000/unlimited/1GB eBay plan through the website directly at roughly the same price, and that plan has a soft high speed data cap removing any remaining data anxiety for the lower usage set.
However, one of the other easy ways around that is if you can get away with 1GB of data a month, you can get away with even less, and the lower you set your hard limit on your data plan with your phone's data plan settings (and restrict photo/video resolution in MMS settings), the less likely you'll run out prematurely as you'll still have unused once the phone clamps down. Background data's a pig, and if you give the OS an inch, it'll take a mile. My wife uses her phone quite a bit, only has a 1GB data plan with a hard cap, and never used up all her data, because she'll set the hard cap in Android for the month at 500MB. If she "runs out" early, she can still unlock the remaining on the plan for the rest of the month without spending a dime. Somehow, neutering the data plan to half of what it is really slows down the background services, and she rarely has to unlock the remainder (maybe three times in as many years). Either way, it keeps her hard under the limit and never had to buy mobile data.
This said, I've broadened a bit out and no longer just recommend RedPocket anymore... again. I've added US Mobile back to the mix. There's no AT&T options, but they do have cheap T-Mo and Verizon options.