Biking to work? Be careful!

[douglasseattle]

 Several of my friends have commuted to work.  We all used to race on a bike team at one time.  They are very good riders (including national champions)  and yet, after a time, most of them were in accidents and some serious ones. 

The savings for bike commuting are wiped out in one fell swoop!  Does this mean you should not commute?  No, but decide if your route is a safe one.  I commute occasionally, but will not if the route is sketchy at all. 

Savings are great, for the pocket book and the environment, but just be careful

[Russ]

ok

[ijingle]

Bought a helmet yesterday, so no worries man.
;-{

[Thegoblinchief]

Umm, okay?

And bike commuting is about more than financial savings. It's about fitness and zero pollution.

I dig the sticker some of the locals have on their seat posts "One Less Prius".

[GuitarStv]

Riding fast in a race doesn't equate to cycling well in busy traffic.  I've seen members of the spandex crew do some particularly stupid things myself . . . How long were your friends cycling to work before they had their accidents?  What kind of accidents did they have?  Because I know people who have never raced their bike anywhere who've been cycling to work for fifteen years with no serious accidents to report.

[B L I S S]

I appreciate the message. Nothing at all wrong with reminding people to stay safe out there.

[kendallf]

I race and also commute to work.  I have had several crashes, including one serious one that resulted in a concussion, broken collarbone, some broken ribs and a punctured lung. 

Percentage of crashes I've had commuting?  Zero.   Percentage of crashes I've had racing or on race style training rides?  100%.  Make of this what you will.  :-)

[Bikeguy]

The guy that wrote this:

https://medium.com/p/ad5df66c937

is the same guy in this link:

http://www.wthr.com/story/25328369/2014/04/24/school-bus-involved-in-deadly-accident-on-the-north-side-of-indianapolis

Be careful.

[GuitarStv]

It's a good thing that nobody ever dies in a car accident.  Otherwise we would need to start warning people about commuting to work via automobile.

[enigmaT120]

Car crashes can wipe out a bunch of savings too. 

[Scandium]

Umm, okay?

And bike commuting is about more than financial savings. It's about fitness and zero pollution.

I dig the sticker some of the locals have on their seat posts "One Less Prius".

One fewer prius

:p

[Russ]

yet another tactful post by the grammar police. that their corrections are so rarely correct must be the greatest tragedy

[GuitarStv]

We should all know that the statement is more properly presented as:

prius--;

[senecando]

yet another tactful post bye the grammer police. that theirthere're corrections are so rarely correct must be the greatest tragedy

ftfy.

[greenmimama]

Why are you guys jumping all over this poster, what they are saying is correct, be careful, you can really get hurt, it's true.

You can also get hurt walking, or riding in a car, or bus.  BUT you are more likely to get badly hurt in a bike accident since you don't have a large metal cage protecting you.

Please be careful, you have a lot of idiots to watch out for, they are really busy texting something very important and too busy to watch the road.

Seriously though, be careful, I could go into detail, my DH has been hit a few times, it's scary each time.

[bc0833]

Why are you guys jumping all over this poster, what they are saying is correct, be careful, you can really get hurt, it's true.

You can also get hurt walking, or riding in a car, or bus.  BUT you are more likely to get badly hurt in a bike accident since you don't have a large metal cage protecting you.

Please be careful, you have a lot of idiots to watch out for, they are really busy texting something very important and too busy to watch the road.

Seriously though, be careful, I could go into detail, my DH has been hit a few times, it's scary each time.

All true, but cyclists should be careful not to break any traffic laws themselves.  I'm bout it bout it when it comes to biking to save money and be more fit, but cyclist around me are constantly breaking traffic laws.  Running red lights and splitting traffic are the biggest offenses, I literally see it every day.

That said, be safe and bike on!!!

[GuitarStv]

Why are you guys jumping all over this poster, what they are saying is correct, be careful, you can really get hurt, it's true.

You can also get hurt walking, or riding in a car, or bus.  BUT you are more likely to get badly hurt in a bike accident since you don't have a large metal cage protecting you.

Please be careful, you have a lot of idiots to watch out for, they are really busy texting something very important and too busy to watch the road.

Seriously though, be careful, I could go into detail, my DH has been hit a few times, it's scary each time.

I think that it's because there tends to be a disproportional amount of fear attributed to cycling.

As you said, you can get hurt walking.  You don't have a metal cage surrounding you.  Yet, somehow I never see threads titled "WALKING TO WORK? BE CAREFUL!".

About 90 people die each day in the US in a car.  Often after all the metal cage false security has been thwarted by distracted driving/speeding/drunk driving.  Yet, somehow I never see threads titled "DRIVING TO WORK?  BE CAREFUL!".

Every day I see idiots who put their life at risk by running across traffic to avoid missing a bus.  Hell, people occasionally jump or fall on to subway tracks around here.  Yet, somehow I never see threads titled "TAKING PUBLIC TRANSIT TO WORK?  BE CAREFUL!".


If you're unsafe, you increase the risks of being hurt or killed.  It doesn't matter if you're biking, walking, driving, or bussing around.  If you're safe and careful, cycling is not significantly more dangerous than any other form of transit.  Overemphasizing the dangers of cycling tends to discourage cyclists . . . and studies have shown that the fewer cyclists on the road, the less that drivers pay attention/know what to do when they come across them.  This then makes things more dangerous (a kind of self fulfilling prophecy).  Why are you so set on making things more dangerous for cyclists?

[Ottawa]

Why are you guys jumping all over this poster, what they are saying is correct, be careful, you can really get hurt, it's true.

You can also get hurt walking, or riding in a car, or bus.  BUT you are more likely to get badly hurt in a bike accident since you don't have a large metal cage protecting you.

Please be careful, you have a lot of idiots to watch out for, they are really busy texting something very important and too busy to watch the road.

Seriously though, be careful, I could go into detail, my DH has been hit a few times, it's scary each time.

I think that it's because there tends to be a disproportional amount of fear attributed to cycling.

As you said, you can get hurt walking.  You don't have a metal cage surrounding you.  Yet, somehow I never see threads titled "WALKING TO WORK? BE CAREFUL!".

About 90 people die each day in the US in a car.  Often after all the metal cage false security has been thwarted by distracted driving/speeding/drunk driving.  Yet, somehow I never see threads titled "DRIVING TO WORK?  BE CAREFUL!".

Every day I see idiots who put their life at risk by running across traffic to avoid missing a bus.  Hell, people occasionally jump or fall on to subway tracks around here.  Yet, somehow I never see threads titled "TAKING PUBLIC TRANSIT TO WORK?  BE CAREFUL!".


If you're unsafe, you increase the risks of being hurt or killed.  It doesn't matter if you're biking, walking, driving, or bussing around.  If you're safe and careful, cycling is not significantly more dangerous than any other form of transit.  Overemphasizing the dangers of cycling tends to discourage cyclists . . . and studies have shown that the fewer cyclists on the road, the less that drivers pay attention/know what to do when they come across them.  This then makes things more dangerous (a kind of self fulfilling prophecy).  Why are you so set on making things more dangerous for cyclists?

Hear Hear - GuitarStv!  Well said. 

I typically respond to people who (still) tell me to have a safe bike home by saying "have a safe drive home".  They think that's a strange thing for me to say. 

[totoro]

Cycling is many times more dangerous than driving or walking. 

Not saying the benefits don't outweigh the risks, but you should not be so quick to call out "disproportionate fear" and dismiss the concerns.  Roads in NA, Australia and New Zealand are generally not that bike friendly.  http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2013/08/21/is-cycling-more-dangerous-than-driving/

Even in the bike-friendly Netherlands cyclists are 5.5 times more likely to die than drivers, but the health benefits still outweigh the risk:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2920084/pdf/ehp-0901747.pdf

Death is not the only risk, as we know from this post. While attack-related incidences are reported, other injuries are also a safety risk and , unlike death or car accidents in general, we know from research into hospital records that only a fraction of bicycle crashes causing injury are ever recorded by the police, possibly as low as ten percent. http://www.bicyclinginfo.org/facts/crash-facts.cfm. 

The point is that if there is a 6.2x risk of death from cycling in NA, then injury is also likely to be higher and long-term lifespan exercise benefits are uncertain in relation to injury.  Injury seems to cause more time taken from exercise as far as I can tell and generally makes daily living a bit more onerous, sometimes forever. 

It is not "reckless kids" who are dying. The average age of cyclists who are killed is 41:  Of course, this is mitigated for women  a bit because 87% of those killed are male. http://www.bicyclinginfo.org/facts/crash-facts.cfm

There was a whole hot debate here on this already:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/i-will-not-be-biking-to-work/

[Russ]

There was is a whole hot debate here on this already right now:

Let's Talk About Whether Driving or Cycling Is More Dangerous Again

or we can have two active threads on the same thing, whatever

[Thegoblinchief]

Oh boy, another danger of cycling debate. Yawn.

[Ottawa]

Oh boy, another danger of cycling debate. Yawn.

Yeah, strange - seems to be people WHO DON'T BIKE that keep flogging this thing.  I'm not sure why.  Do they feel the need to defend their (non-exercise) lifestyle? 

[totoro]

Oh boy, another danger of cycling debate. Yawn.

Or, "oh boy, another who cares about the risk of death and accidents because cycling is the best no matter what thread", but that works too.

[totoro]

Oh boy, another danger of cycling debate. Yawn.

Yeah, strange - seems to be people WHO DON'T BIKE that keep flogging this thing.  I'm not sure why.  Do they feel the need to defend their (non-exercise) lifestyle?

I exercise.  I even bike sometimes.  Mostly I walk everywhere. Walking is as good or better exercise than biking imo and I have the time to do it. 

Also, for those of us who have had a loved one killed while on their bike, it is not just a theoretical issue that we flog. 

I do still believe the health benefits of biking outweigh the risks in most cases.

That said, ignoring the valid statistics and being all gung ho about biking no matter what and for everyone is not an approach that I would endorse as it smacks of black and white thinking. Particularly when someone else is walking instead of driving it seems pretty judgmental and ignorant to me.

[Ottawa]

I exercise.  I even bike sometimes.  Mostly I walk everywhere. Walking is as good or better exercise than biking imo and I have the time to do it. 

Good for you.  But there you are...trying to 'one up what you do'. Why do you feel the need to say "What I do is better than what you do?".  Because, hey I do aquafit* and that's definitely better than walking. 

* No, I don't...but in the future I may.

Also, for those of us who have had a loved one killed while on their bike, it is not just a theoretical issue that we flog.

Anecdotal.

I do still believe the health benefits of biking outweigh the risks in most cases.

Good.

That said, ignoring the valid statistics and being all gung ho about biking no matter what and for everyone is not an approach that I would endorse as it smacks of black and white thinking. Particularly when someone else is walking instead of driving it seems pretty judgmental and ignorant to me.

Re-read GuitarStv's piece...

Perhaps you could focus your efforts on things that aren't splitting hairs like:

- OBESITY and the risk of diabetes, coronary heart disease and about 10 other associated risks.
- DRUG and ALCOHOL abuse and all their wonderful effects
- GUN and other violence

You'll find you may just get better bang for you buck mate.

[GuitarStv]

I exercise.  I even bike sometimes.  Mostly I walk everywhere. Walking is as good or better exercise than biking imo and I have the time to do it.

You really should consider your safety.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/ca14/ALYCIDON%20RAIL/INFORMED%20SOURCES%20ARCHIVE/INF%20SRCS%202000/Informed%20Sources%2010%202000.htm - per kilometer, cycling is less dangerous than walking.




http://www.helmets.org/stats.htm - 70% of cyclists who are killed don't wear helmets.  It's estimated that only about 43% of baby boomers wear helmets.  The group most killed are from the ages 45-54 (baby boomers).
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811386.pdf - more than a quarter of all cyclists killed are drunk.

If you don't bike drunk and wear a helmet, your safety on a bike goes WAY up.  Hell, make sure to use lights and reflectors and a hi-vis jacket and it probably goes up even further.  Make sure to follow traffic laws and it goes up even further than that.  Saying that cycling is dangerous because of stats that include people who don't cycle safely doesn't give the whole picture.

 . . . or is like saying you should never walk because more people die walking per km than they do biking.

[totoro]

I exercise.  I even bike sometimes.  Mostly I walk everywhere. Walking is as good or better exercise than biking imo and I have the time to do it. 

Good for you.  But there you are...trying to 'one up what you do'. Why do you feel the need to say "What I do is better than what you do?".  Because, hey I do aquafit* and that's definitely better than walking. 

* No, I don't...but in the future I may.

It is not a one up, it is just math. 

I should have qualified it because I'm comparing walking the same distance to biking the same distance.  The amount of exercise I get per km walking vs. biking appears to be higher ie. it is easier and faster to bike than walk where I want to go (rec centre, grocery store, library).

In my case, the distance is fixed, and it works out to about 40 minutes of walking vs 12 minutes of cycling.  Walking uses approx 334 kilojoules of energy for a 1.6km walk.  Using a 1.6km distance, if you cycled at 20km/h at 70watts (arbitrary but vaguely-plausible numbers), you would be involve around 20 kilojoules being "sent to the pedals".  If you are about 20% efficient, that would be 100 kilojoules burned.

If because you are biking you travel farther then the answer would shift at a certain point because you would actually be getting more exercise and burning more calories.

That said, ignoring the valid statistics and being all gung ho about biking no matter what and for everyone is not an approach that I would endorse as it smacks of black and white thinking. Particularly when someone else is walking instead of driving it seems pretty judgmental and ignorant to me.

Re-read GuitarStv's piece...

Perhaps you could focus your efforts on things that aren't splitting hairs like:

- OBESITY and the risk of diabetes, coronary heart disease and about 10 other associated risks.
- DRUG and ALCOHOL abuse and all their wonderful effects
- GUN and other violence

You'll find you may just get better bang for you buck mate.

Except the topic is bike safety.  Are you saying that an alternate opinion is worthless in this case?  Also, I'm a girl mate.

As far as helmets go, it seems country specific?  In Canada helmets do not seem to reduce fatalities in any meaningful way: http://www.vehicularcyclist.com/fatals.html

Canada's government research report:

"It is apparent that mass helmet use is not contributing to the reduction in cyclist fatalities, at least not in any measurable way. The results suggest that traffic authorities should refocus to put their efforts into other proven measures. Programs aimed at motorist behaviour over the past 30 or so years have been effective in reducing fatalities among all road user groups, including pedestrians and cyclists."

The biggest factor in fatalities seems to be aggressive driving, then cyclist behaviour and then night reflective gear.  Impairment is a factor: cyclist impairment was noted in 15.4% of fatalities in this study http://bikecalgary.org/collision-stats

Anyway, this is enough on the topic for me.  It has been fully explored on the other thread.

[Scandium]

yet another tactful post by the grammar police. that their corrections are so rarely correct must be the greatest tragedy

I don't care about what people write here, but found the idea of incorrect grammar on a sticker on your bike funny.

[GuitarStv]

As far as helmets go, it seems country specific?  In Canada helmets do not seem to reduce fatalities in any meaningful way: http://www.vehicularcyclist.com/fatals.html

"It is apparent that mass helmet use is not contributing to the reduction in cyclist fatalities, at least not in any measurable way. The results suggest that traffic authorities should refocus to put their efforts into other proven measures. Programs aimed at motorist behaviour over the past 30 or so years have been effective in reducing fatalities among all road user groups, including pedestrians and cyclists."

The biggest factor in fatalities seems to be aggressive driving, then cyclist behaviour and then night reflective gear.  Impairment is a factor: cyclist impairment was noted in 15.4% of fatalities in this study http://bikecalgary.org/collision-stats

The first study you're referencing doesn't really show what you're claiming.  I would need to see the missing numbers of people cycling by year to determine if average rates of injury have reduced via helmet usage.  It does indicate that helmet usage is not very high among the people likely to be cycling in traffic though:

A 1994/5 survey by Statistics Canada, the government data gathering agency, indicated bicycle helmet use at 62% among child cyclists 12 years old and younger, and 19% among the remainder of cyclists

Again, not to nitpick here . . . but the second study you're referencing was very small in scope to the point that I'm not sure it can reliably be used to make general statements about cycling.  It's dealing with the deaths of six cyclists over an eight year period in Calgary . . . and shows that every other mode of transport (driving a car, being a passenger in a car, being a motorcyclist, or walking) is more likely to end in death or injury.

[CarDude]

I feel this thread is a more antagonistic clone of the one in the Welcome forum.

[George_PA]

i don't know if this is scientifically accurate, but in my opinion the slower you bike, the safer it seems to be,

biking at slower speeds gives you more reaction time to adjust and watch out for other vehicles, thus if you are on a bike, you probably don't want to be racing or going too fast, instead ride defensively.

I see some bicyclists go out there act like they are can keep up with the cars in terms of speed and acceleration, but really it just pissed off the vehicle drivers because they have to speed up their car or truck that much faster to get around the bicyclist. 

Oh and by the way, the cars behind you never like to wait behind a bicyclists no matter what speed you are going, I swear the first thing that goes through a drivers head when they see a bicyclist in front of them is "oh no I don't want to be stuck behind this bike for miles".

[El Limon]

Everyone's situation is different. Biking to work is way too risky and too much hassle for some of us. Too many intersections, tire popping rubble, street gangs, etc. I don't think I'd survive one week out there. Cycling here is weekends only along the PCH; never to work.     

[SDREMNGR]

I'm all for safety.  I bike to work and I do everything I can think to do for safety. Blink red lights on helmet and bike as well as a light in front on at all times, wearing colorful bike kits, and following the traffic laws and lights.   I have a mostly dedicated bike lane all the way to work but is still a bit scary to get whizzed by.  I know of someone's dad who got hit by a drunk driver while biking and died.  You can do everything right and still die, but it can happen anywhere I guess.

[davisgang90]

Why are you guys jumping all over this poster, what they are saying is correct, be careful, you can really get hurt, it's true.

You can also get hurt walking, or riding in a car, or bus.  BUT you are more likely to get badly hurt in a bike accident since you don't have a large metal cage protecting you.

Please be careful, you have a lot of idiots to watch out for, they are really busy texting something very important and too busy to watch the road.

Seriously though, be careful, I could go into detail, my DH has been hit a few times, it's scary each time.

For one thing, this isn't posted in the correct section.  The OP isn't sharing his/her badassity.  Maybe the Antimustachian section?

[Sonorous Epithet]

I started commuting by jetpack. Sure, everyone seems to know someone who's died in a jetpack commuting accident, but them's just anecdotes, man. I have yet to find anyone turn up a single studying showing jetpacks to be more dangerous than driving, cycling, OR walking. Checkmate, skeptics!

[mm1970]

Interesting point.  Two people I know were in bike accidents in the same week.

One is a coworker.  An SUV pulled out in front of him and he wrecked, got scraped and bruised.  It was his second accident.  His first he broke things.  (He's tall and very thin, easy breakage.)

The other is my husband's coworker.  He was hit by a car and was really hurt.  Didn't actually break anything but couldn't drive for weeks.  It was his second serious accident.

Both are serious cyclists who commute by bike and bike for fun a lot.  So accidents per number of trips is still pretty small.  #1 is in his 50's.  #2 his 30's and bikes 10 miles each way, every day.

The risks are really drivers who aren't paying attention.  Even though I used to bike to work, I still find myself zoning out behind the wheel occasionally.

One of our local towns have been doing special striping for the bike lanes where they paint them bright green.  I think these have been VERY helpful in getting cars to stay in their own lane.

[CarDude]

One of our local towns have been doing special striping for the bike lanes where they paint them bright green.  I think these have been VERY helpful in getting cars to stay in their own lane.

Yup. That's one of the *many* things done in bike-friendly countries to make cycling feasible on a large scale.