Author Topic: Why does someone rent?  (Read 4466 times)

Just Joe

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Why does someone rent?
« on: July 24, 2019, 07:31:52 AM »
We're looking to rent our "old" house. Mortgage is about $750 and rental value seems to be about $1250.

DW asked me why someone would rent that house rather than simply buy a similar house with a smaller mortgage. I have no answer.

Forgive our naivety but who is the typical home rental customer?

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2019, 07:37:40 AM »
-Poor credit, so they don't qualify for a mortgage.
-Low savings, so they can't afford a down payment.
-Need for flexibility. If you live in an area where people move for work on an interim basis, renting is best in these situations. Or, there's life needs- moving in with a new partner, not ready for the commitment of co-owning, can't afford a place on their own.
-Not wanting to be on the hook for all the house bullshit- replacing crap that breaks. It is SO NICE to just ring someone up and have them pay for and fix it for you!

Lots of reasons, but I hope those help!

PoutineLover

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2019, 07:54:20 AM »
It's not every market or personal situation where those numbers work like that. Check out the rent or buy calculator
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html
I rent because I don't have a big enough downpayment for an investment property yet, I don't need a large space yet and I don't want a condo, and rent is much cheaper than mortgages for the type of apartment I need. Also being able to get the landlord to fix shit is a great perk.

Hirondelle

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2019, 08:00:48 AM »
It's not every market or personal situation where those numbers work like that. Check out the rent or buy calculator


That!

In my case, as a single person my housing needs/wants are just a small room in a shared apartment. There's no buying market in the size that I'd want (= super tiny) and I prefer flatmates as long as I'm single. That means I could 1. rent a room in a shared house or 2. buy a place with multiple bedrooms and rent those out. As I cannot afford option 2 in my current city I've opted for option 1.

Add in that I can move to anywhere in the world at any moment I want and I'm a committed renter for now :)

Villanelle

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2019, 08:27:12 AM »
We're looking to rent our "old" house. Mortgage is about $750 and rental value seems to be about $1250.

DW asked me why someone would rent that house rather than simply buy a similar house with a smaller mortgage. I have no answer.

Forgive our naivety but who is the typical home rental customer?

What about when you add mortgage, property taxes, insurance, and maintenance (which people always grossly underestimate)?  Also, depending on how "old" that mortgage/value is, it could be at least somewhat higher now. 

Then there are people who know they are likely to be in an area of a house only a few years.  They will likely be moving due to work, downsizing when the kids go off to college, etc., so buying and eating the transactions costs would be an unwise move. 

And finally, you may be on one of the markets where it does still make financial sense in many cases to buy.  Where I live, a $1m house rents for about $4000.  That math makes is financially ridiculous to buy.

nereo

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2019, 08:52:37 AM »
DW asked me why someone would rent that house rather than simply buy a similar house with a smaller mortgage. I have no answer.

Forgive our naivety but who is the typical home rental customer?

I (temporarily) fit this demographic!  We live in an area where the Rent vs Buy calculation is majorly skewed towards buying, yet we currently rent.

Personally, we rent because
  • We will likely move in < 2 years (upfront costs of buying are not worth it)
  • With full-time jobs and a youngin' we don't have the time to spend on basic maintenance and like that every problem is dealt with by our landlord.
  • We landed in this area (job) and needed to find a place within 2 weeks.
Also, a number of our friends are in similar circumstances because:
  • They lack the capital for a down payment (most have substantial SL debt + little/no savings.  a $30k downpayment seems like a pipe dream)
  • They are either single, or in newish relationships and aren't in a life-stage to commit to one living situation for many years
  • Their careers are just ramping up, and what they *want* in a house is more than they can afford at present, but expect to double their incomes in the next ~5 years.  In other words they are saving up.
  • There's a perception that home ownership is for people in "older adults" (people nearing 40 or over it).  I can't tell you the number of late-20-somethings I know who view home ownership the same way they might view having a will or life insurance... something old(er) people do.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2019, 09:05:41 AM »
If the roof leaks, I the renter am not going to be the one climbing the ladder.

therethere

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2019, 09:18:25 AM »
We continued to rent so we could pay down student loans before buying responsibly (having an e-fund and 20% down). Meanwhile the housing market doubled in that time. Now I don't want to buy an overpriced, 100+ year old house that would require updates, tons of money, and my time every weekend. We also stay for flexibility. It's great knowing that we could throw everything and leave on a months notice.

Sure we could have made 200k+ in equity in 5 years. But we also could have been ruined just as well. I lived with stress of 200k+ of student loans. I didn't need an aging house on top of that.

ilsy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2019, 09:21:34 AM »
If the roof leaks, I the renter am not going to be the one climbing the l5adder.
You won't be climbing the ladder even if the roof doesn't leak, when you are a renter. Cleaning gutters is a maintenance that should be done on a regular basis annually, and if there are trees around the property then at least twice a year. Lack of such maintenance is the number one reason why the properties go down the hill in the area where I buy my rentals.

Uturn

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2019, 09:25:33 AM »
I owned for almost 20 years, but am currently a renter.   I would prefer to own, but I will probably only be in this area less than 5 years.  Unless you are buying at investor prices, the house is not going to appreciate enough in 5 years to offset the entry and exit costs of real estate.  Yes, I know your brother's friend's wife's uncle's neighbor made a killing once paying full retail and only owning for 82 days, but that is not the norm.

If I were going to be in this area long term, say 5+ years, then I would buy.  I miss my woodshop. 

nereo

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2019, 09:31:54 AM »
I miss my woodshop.
Me too.  That's probably my top reason why I want to buy (or at least have a separate barn/2+ garage in our next rental - common in our area).

Just Joe

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2019, 09:35:01 AM »
What about when you add mortgage, property taxes, insurance, and maintenance (which people always grossly underestimate)?  Also, depending on how "old" that mortgage/value is, it could be at least somewhat higher now. 

My all-in aside from maintenance is $800 per month. Maintenance cost of the house has been affordable. Amortizing what we have spent on the house in the 15 years we've lived there amounts to about $1K a year.

I assume it will be somewhat higher with renters b/c they don't own it, why be careful?

I have more homework to do on whether this makes sense but it looks like I can pay off the property in 5 years assuming full occupancy which i know is a pipe dream. 

I know folks often hire out their chores but I've always taken care of my own yard, cleaned the gutters, power washed whatever was turning green, picked up the sticks, etc.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 09:36:55 AM by Just Joe »

ilsy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 09:36:31 AM »
People rent because, as mentioned above, they donít qualify for a mortgage. This is number one reason, imho. But also people rent because they have no idea how to do maintenance themselves. It's way easier to pick up a phone and call your landlord about water in the basement, leaking toilet or faucet, than to figure out who to call for those issues, then wait for them to arrive and then pay who knows how much. In my area plumbers charge $50-100 per hour (and they move exceptionally slow). That's why I do all my plumbing maintenance myself.

My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

nereo

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2019, 09:42:10 AM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...

JLee

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2019, 09:50:46 AM »
I rented because I didn't want to pay $14k a year in property taxes for a house that was worth buying, and it's far easier to rent something that I would not buy than to buy something that I do not want.

Then I got tired of not having shop space, so I now have a house.

Villanelle

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2019, 09:55:21 AM »
What about when you add mortgage, property taxes, insurance, and maintenance (which people always grossly underestimate)?  Also, depending on how "old" that mortgage/value is, it could be at least somewhat higher now. 

My all-in aside from maintenance is $800 per month. Maintenance cost of the house has been affordable. Amortizing what we have spent on the house in the 15 years we've lived there amounts to about $1K a year.

I assume it will be somewhat higher with renters b/c they don't own it, why be careful?

I have more homework to do on whether this makes sense but it looks like I can pay off the property in 5 years assuming full occupancy which i know is a pipe dream. 

I know folks often hire out their chores but I've always taken care of my own yard, cleaned the gutters, power washed whatever was turning green, picked up the sticks, etc.

What you've paid over a relatively short time in maintenance is not the same as a reasonable estimation of the average cost of maintenance for the average home.  The fridge and the water heater die. The roof need to be replaced.  The carpet wears out. The a/c unit craps out and needs a full replacement. These are the types of things that don't happen very often, but when they do, they are expensive. 


We own a home (that used to be our residence and is now a rental), and we are renters on the other side of the country.  My husband is in them military.  We had friends move to the area and 6 weeks after they moved in to their home, they were leaving.  Had they purchased, they'd have been in trouble, especially because they couldn't rent here for anywhere near even their PITI, much less all the other costs.  There are definitely things I miss about owning our residence, but they are mostly things like wishing I could make small changes to the house.  It is nice when we don't have to worry about the costs then the a/c goes out after the basement floods though!

therethere

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2019, 09:58:35 AM »
Location.

I rent downtown where a house is easily 400k+ (and requires lots of updating/fixes). Or I can buy a house in the suburb with strip malls, families, and car trip required for every errand. I would die inside.

ketchup

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2019, 10:27:22 AM »
I rent because $975/mo is cheaper than buying the property for seven figures, but I'm in an odd case where we live on 200+ acres with most of it cornfield.

Lots of people don't plan on living in an area for more than 2-3 years.  Or they don't have a down payment.  Or their credit sucks due to whatever.  Or they just don't want to deal with maintenance/etc.  Lots of reasons.

ilsy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2019, 11:02:08 AM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...
And?

therethere

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2019, 11:04:26 AM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...
And?

Gotta love the self-righteous landlords on this forum...

A Fella from Stella

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2019, 11:17:01 AM »
I can tell you why I've rented........

1) I was 22 and had just moved to a new town. Didn't know the area and wasn't ready to make a purchase.
2) At 31 I relocated and while renting out my home was renting a place that was not the home I'd want to buy, but was fine for the moment. 3 years later we found a good deal on a home we wanted.

You might like JL Collins take on this. He does not own a home. Also, Kristy Shen is very anti-home-ownership

JL Collins: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=talks+at+google+jl+collins&view=detail&mid=AA8D11C065030BE6D3C2AA8D11C065030BE6D3C2&FORM=VIRE

Kristy Shen: https://www.journeytolaunch.com/episode11/

I can also tell you why my renters have not bought the house they were living in (I've tried to sell it twice). One didn't have the credit, and the other didn't like the house enough to own it.

ilsy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2019, 11:36:33 AM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...
And?

Gotta love the self-righteous landlords on this forum...
Relax.
No one said landlords should skip on the maintenance.
The question was, why do people rent as oppose to buying.
The answer: because some people are renters, can't do house maintenance. When and if the renters start doing their own maintenance, they might think about  buying. Until then, they should rent. In my opinion many homeowners should still rent.

nereo

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2019, 01:51:34 PM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...
And?

Gotta love the self-righteous landlords on this forum...
Relax.
No one said landlords should skip on the maintenance.
The question was, why do people rent as oppose to buying.
The answer: because some people are renters, can't do house maintenance. When and if the renters start doing their own maintenance, they might think about  buying. Until then, they should rent. In my opinion many homeowners should still rent.

There's a difference between saying "some people are renters, and they need mom and dad [or a landlord] ..." and "some renters can't do maintenance and need mom and dad [or a landlord]".  note the difference?

ketchup

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2019, 02:00:13 PM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...
And?

Gotta love the self-righteous landlords on this forum...
Relax.
No one said landlords should skip on the maintenance.
The question was, why do people rent as oppose to buying.
The answer: because some people are renters, can't do house maintenance. When and if the renters start doing their own maintenance, they might think about  buying. Until then, they should rent. In my opinion many homeowners should still rent.

There's a difference between saying "some people are renters, and they need mom and dad [or a landlord] ..." and "some renters can't do maintenance and need mom and dad [or a landlord]".  note the difference?
There are also plenty of able-bodied intelligent people with no interest at all in house maintenance.

waltworks

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2019, 03:12:40 PM »
Because people who never ran the numbers are willing to rent them a house for less money than in costs to pay the mortgage, taxes, insurance, and maintenance?

$1k for maintenance per year on a freestanding SFH is a bad joke. Even just painting inside and out once every decade (which you'll need to do to keep/attract renters) will almost account for that by itself. Carpet ain't free. Appliances, either. Roof will go in 15-20 years, no matter what the "warranty" on the shingle says. I could go on and on...

-W

spartana

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2019, 04:16:34 PM »
Some people, especially those who have a big stash who don't really need a house or condo (single, childless, DINKs, FIREd travellers, etc) would rather have their money invested in the market earning $$$ rather than have it tied up in a house which may create more expenses then renting a small place or shared place would.  Oh and because you can GTFO asap when your next door neighbor razes their 1000 sf house and puts up a. 40 foot tall 5000 sf place across the entire lot for an AirBnB
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 04:26:29 PM by spartana »

Lichen

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2019, 04:42:32 PM »
We just sold our home in June and became renters. Here are our reasons:

1) We hated -- HATED -- being home owners. Owning a home is like having a spoiled, ungrateful child. Most weekends have to be spent doing some annoying house task -- mowing the lawn, fixing shit that breaks, maintaining other shit so it doesn't break. Not only does a house rob you of time, it also raids the wallet constantly. And we didn't own a money pit or anything like that, this was our experience in a well built home in good condition. I don't want to piss away my life cutting grass that will just grow back again or building a pergola in the backyard. I have better things to do.

2) Constantly having to adjust the budget for house projects. Sure, the mortgage may only be $900, but then there's the constantly rising taxes and insurance, random maintenance charges, etc, etc. We actually paid an average of $1400/per month for the privilege of being owned by our home.

3) You are stuck with your neighbors. When crappy people buy a home next to you, or even down the block, you are stuck. When you rent, you can either stick it out for a couple months (crappy neighbors tend to move on at the end of their lease term) or you can easily pack up and move yourself.

4) Cost is often less with rent, and it isn't as variable as with home ownership. Not only is renter's insurance a hell of a lot cheaper, all costs are fixed. My rent is $900 + $15 pet fee every month. My renter's insurance is $8/mo. I don't have to pay water, sewer, or garbage. My electricity is less (in part because we are on the top floor and heat rises, with two shared walls and a shared floor). My housing costs are always $923/mo. It doesn't matter if the hot water heater goes or if the toilet fails, it doesn't come out of my pocket.

5) Flexibility. Man, I might not want to move in a year or two, but it is mentally freeing to know that I easily could should an opportunity arise or if my current area became a total shithole.

6) Flexibility -- bears mentioning twice. We started in our home as a family of four. Then kid #1 grew up and headed off to college. In a couple of years kid #2 will be off. I don't want nor need a big house to clean and maintain once there are only two of us. People change, and it's difficult to change housing once you own. We can downsize or upsize much more easily as renters.

Yeah, we might own again, then again, we might not.

Laserjet3051

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2019, 04:52:26 PM »
There is no "typical renter" as the prior responses indicate. In many HCOL/VHCOL markets renting is simply the cheaper option.

ilsy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2019, 12:51:16 PM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...
And?

Gotta love the self-righteous landlords on this forum...
Relax.
No one said landlords should skip on the maintenance.
The question was, why do people rent as oppose to buying.
The answer: because some people are renters, can't do house maintenance. When and if the renters start doing their own maintenance, they might think about  buying. Until then, they should rent. In my opinion many homeowners should still rent.

There's a difference between saying "some people are renters, and they need mom and dad [or a landlord] ..." and "some renters can't do maintenance and need mom and dad [or a landlord]".  note the difference?
There are also plenty of able-bodied intelligent people with no interest at all in house maintenance.

@ketchup it seems like you just got too much time on your hands. But, hey, it makes me feel very ... umm..... significant when someone spends so much time analyzing my two sentences.

ketchup

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2019, 01:54:19 PM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...
And?

Gotta love the self-righteous landlords on this forum...
Relax.
No one said landlords should skip on the maintenance.
The question was, why do people rent as oppose to buying.
The answer: because some people are renters, can't do house maintenance. When and if the renters start doing their own maintenance, they might think about  buying. Until then, they should rent. In my opinion many homeowners should still rent.

There's a difference between saying "some people are renters, and they need mom and dad [or a landlord] ..." and "some renters can't do maintenance and need mom and dad [or a landlord]".  note the difference?
There are also plenty of able-bodied intelligent people with no interest at all in house maintenance.

@ketchup it seems like you just got too much time on your hands. But, hey, it makes me feel very ... umm..... significant when someone spends so much time analyzing my two sentences.
It sure makes me feel umm.... significant when someone reverts to an ad hominem attack against me. :)

And just to get further into the weeds, I've lived in a home as an owner-occupant, rented while being a landlord, lived as an owner-occupant again while still playing landlord, and currently rent while being a landlord again and also collecting payments on a rental house I sold on payments.  I've seen all sides of this.  There are good reasons for someone to be on either side.

pmac

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2019, 04:02:29 PM »
I don't want to piss away my life cutting grass that will just grow back again or building a pergola in the backyard. I have better things to do.

hahaha! Seriously! Who convinced us all that "gardening" was a great use of our limited weekend time!!


Notch

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2019, 04:20:29 PM »
Because where I live, it's cheaper than the insurance, council rates and maintenance/depreciation of owning. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 08:16:49 PM by Notch »

halftimer

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2019, 06:44:59 PM »
For us, I think the choice to rental is primarily psychological. I saw my parents bankrupted when I was young by a home purchase and the circumstances afterwards that were out of their control. If they had rented the financial impact would not have followed them for the next 2 decades.  We were preapproved for a mortgage but did not jump into a decision, and kept looking for the right place for us. In the meantime we saw the major issues my brother was having with his neighbours that he couldn't escape and decided to just keep renting. We enjoy yard work, home maintenance, and having a garage and have all of those things in the rental we have been in close to 10 years now. Now it's time to move, but we chose to rent again. Partly because 3 close friends in the last year have had to leave the city after long time ownership and been forced to rent out due to a shortage of buyers. Home prices are falling, we have a down payment ready, and it is still not appealing to us in the least.

ilsy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2019, 12:53:37 AM »


My opinion is that some people are renters. They need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their property related problems.

...well that's kind of condescending...
And?

Gotta love the self-righteous landlords on this forum...
Relax.
No one said landlords should skip on the maintenance.
The question was, why do people rent as oppose to buying.
The answer: because some people are renters, can't do house maintenance. When and if the renters start doing their own maintenance, they might think about  buying. Until then, they should rent. In my opinion many homeowners should still rent.

There's a difference between saying "some people are renters, and they need mom and dad [or a landlord] ..." and "some renters can't do maintenance and need mom and dad [or a landlord]".  note the difference?
There are also plenty of able-bodied intelligent people with no interest at all in house maintenance.

@ketchup it seems like you just got too much time on your hands. But, hey, it makes me feel very ... umm..... significant when someone spends so much time analyzing my two sentences.
It sure makes me feel umm.... significant when someone reverts to an ad hominem attack against me. :)

And just to get further into the weeds, I've lived in a home as an owner-occupant, rented while being a landlord, lived as an owner-occupant again while still playing landlord, and currently rent while being a landlord again and also collecting payments on a rental house I sold on payments.  I've seen all sides of this.  There are good reasons for someone to be on either side.
Wow, you are very hard to get rid off. :)
I need to be frank, I am sure you misunderstand me and I misunderstand you. I canít figure out why you bring up the example of you being a landlord-owner or an owner-landlord without saying anything about the maintenance - my main point.
Sure, if one wants to find a reason to justify anything, there is absolutely nothing that can stop them.
If one wants to be a renter - they are going to find their reasons and are going to rent, if one want to be a homeowner - they are going to buy. It doesn't mean they should. They might be "renters" - have renters' mentality, being used for someone else to do the maintenance for them, someone like mom and dad aka a landlord. Why did they buy is a different story.
In computers world there are lamers/users and hackers. Some people are just users, similar to the RE world where some people are renters. I don't know if there is a "renter/tenant error" similar to a "user error," but there should be one. I, for example, alway build my rentals "tenant proof." I alway add 2x4s under the drywall where a towel rack goes or a toilet paper holder, and it still doesn't work. I resort now to anchors able to hold 200 lbs for a toilet paper holder.

nereo

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2019, 06:12:39 AM »
I need to be frank, I am sure you misunderstand me and I misunderstand you. I canít figure out why you bring up the example of you being a landlord-owner or an owner-landlord without saying anything about the maintenance - my main point.
Sure, if one wants to find a reason to justify anything, there is absolutely nothing that can stop them.
If one wants to be a renter - they are going to find their reasons and are going to rent, if one want to be a homeowner - they are going to buy. It doesn't mean they should. They might be "renters" - have renters' mentality, being used for someone else to do the maintenance for them, someone like mom and dad aka a landlord. Why did they buy is a different story.
In computers world there are lamers/users and hackers. Some people are just users, similar to the RE world where some people are renters. I don't know if there is a "renter/tenant error" similar to a "user error," but there should be one. I, for example, alway build my rentals "tenant proof." I alway add 2x4s under the drywall where a towel rack goes or a toilet paper holder, and it still doesn't work. I resort now to anchors able to hold 200 lbs for a toilet paper holder.
For clarity I was the one who first called you out for saying that some people were renters / they need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their related problems.
It's the way you've characterized an entire group of people that's objectionable, and made even more offensive by the long list of reasons given by numerous other posters in this thread.  Had you said "some people lack the knowledge or desire to undertake home maintenance" I'm sure everyone here would have agreed.  But that's not what you said.  For starters, describing a group of people as needing mommy and daddy condescending.  Then you double-down on this by referencing another obnoxious and derogatory term, 'lamers' for anyone who is not a hacker.

The whole reason why ketchup mentioned that s/he has also been a owner, renter and landlord is to highlight that your dichotomy of splitting people into owners who are competent and renters who need assistance from their parents or landlords is false. FWIW I'm in a similar situation to ketchup (outlined above) and I'm pretty adept at home maintenance. In fact I've recently watched our appointed handyman take 2x as long to do a few repair jobs in our rental that I know I would have done better.

Stop trying to 'get rid' of people just because they don't agree with your responses. This forum promotes open discussion, within the forum rules, even when its discordant.

ketchup

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2019, 07:23:45 AM »
I need to be frank, I am sure you misunderstand me and I misunderstand you. I canít figure out why you bring up the example of you being a landlord-owner or an owner-landlord without saying anything about the maintenance - my main point.
Sure, if one wants to find a reason to justify anything, there is absolutely nothing that can stop them.
If one wants to be a renter - they are going to find their reasons and are going to rent, if one want to be a homeowner - they are going to buy. It doesn't mean they should. They might be "renters" - have renters' mentality, being used for someone else to do the maintenance for them, someone like mom and dad aka a landlord. Why did they buy is a different story.
In computers world there are lamers/users and hackers. Some people are just users, similar to the RE world where some people are renters. I don't know if there is a "renter/tenant error" similar to a "user error," but there should be one. I, for example, alway build my rentals "tenant proof." I alway add 2x4s under the drywall where a towel rack goes or a toilet paper holder, and it still doesn't work. I resort now to anchors able to hold 200 lbs for a toilet paper holder.
For clarity I was the one who first called you out for saying that some people were renters / they need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their related problems.
It's the way you've characterized an entire group of people that's objectionable, and made even more offensive by the long list of reasons given by numerous other posters in this thread.  Had you said "some people lack the knowledge or desire to undertake home maintenance" I'm sure everyone here would have agreed.  But that's not what you said.  For starters, describing a group of people as needing mommy and daddy condescending.  Then you double-down on this by referencing another obnoxious and derogatory term, 'lamers' for anyone who is not a hacker.

The whole reason why ketchup mentioned that s/he has also been a owner, renter and landlord is to highlight that your dichotomy of splitting people into owners who are competent and renters who need assistance from their parents or landlords is false. FWIW I'm in a similar situation to ketchup (outlined above) and I'm pretty adept at home maintenance. In fact I've recently watched our appointed handyman take 2x as long to do a few repair jobs in our rental that I know I would have done better.

Stop trying to 'get rid' of people just because they don't agree with your responses. This forum promotes open discussion, within the forum rules, even when its discordant.
+1.  Thanks for jumping back in, nereo.

I don't think I've heard the term "lamers" since the late 90s/early 00s.  I didn't realize anyone over the age of 12 used it unironically.

His goal is to get rid of me?  He sounds fun.

I completely understand him.  Until he just re-doubled down, part of me still thought I might be misinterpreting.

I happen to work in IT, and comparing "users" and "renters" in this way is hilariously insulting to both groups.  Does IT exist just because people are too dumb to set up their own AD user account?  Because Karen in accounting isn't smart enough to maintain the Quickbooks server so mommy and daddy (IT) does it instead?  IT exists so that nobody else has to patch the network hoses and top off the internet fluid so everyone else can do their damn job.  And that doesn't make us better than everyone else at the company (our users).   Without them, there's no business.  Just like without renters, there are no rental properties.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 07:26:29 AM by ketchup »

Malkynn

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2019, 07:48:41 AM »
Man...if my renters referred to me as "mommy", that would be fucking weird.

Landlords get paid to provide a service, it's not a parental arrangement, it's a professional one.

Back on topic though, I am a "renter" through and through. I have no interest in owning, I take no pride in ownership, I hate lawn care/gardening with a fiery passion, and I like the ability to move.

Except...I own two properties. Lol.
DH's career is located here, so we're married to this location for the next 10-15 years. If it were just me, there's no way I would commit to a single location for that long. Until recently, I had never lived anywhere for more than 2 years.

The new place is my "dream home", so hopefully I can stay put now and enjoy my nice reasonable mortgage payment as the neighbourhood gentrifies and becomes completely unaffordable.
We don't care about this place appreciating because we never plan on selling, it's more like buying into rent-control.

Ugh, it is so nice to no longer have a yard to worry about, or a furnace, or hot water tank, or a roof, etc. The more of that shit I can offload, the better.

Because I *do* own though, I've made the most of the privilege by painting the place an insane colour that no landlord would allow. So at least there's that.


MKinVA

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2019, 08:02:32 AM »
Everyone on here would be a renter under the right circumstances...and an owner under the right circumstances. Is the OP even still here?

nereo

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2019, 08:08:35 AM »

Because I *do* own though, I've made the most of the privilege by painting the place an insane colour that no landlord would allow. So at least there's that.

I think you and I might be good neighbors Malkynn - once upon a time I found a ramshackle rental in a VHCOL area.  The 'landlord' (I should just say "owner" since he did no landlording duties) was an aging hippie who agreed to rent to me for waaaaaay below market price provided I evicted all the mice  and repaint the walls and take care of all the non-critical problems myself and deduct materials from rent.  And so it was "mine, but not mine".  And I compensated by painting every room a different, bright color (all I'll say is my bathroom for a while was a color called "Macbeth").

At one point he came over and his only comment was "didn't anyone ever tell you this is a house and not a box of crayons?!"  I loved that quirky little place.

Samuel

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2019, 09:04:08 AM »
We don't care about this place appreciating because we never plan on selling, it's more like buying into rent-control.

This is the only reason why I'm halfway looking into buying a condo. I just don't want to be priced out of my hometown, which is rapidly moving from HCOL to VHCOL.

All the soft "pride of ownership" reasons and most of the hard math ones don't really motivate me much, but locking in a workable monthly housing cost does, as long as it's rentable when I am in a position to do some longer term traveling.

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2019, 09:15:23 AM »
For us, I think the choice to rental is primarily psychological. I saw my parents bankrupted when I was young by a home purchase and the circumstances afterwards that were out of their control. If they had rented the financial impact would not have followed them for the next 2 decades. 

I think this really gets at a generational difference- for so long, home ownership was core to the 'american dream', and had this aura of security. But for those of us who were impressionable during the recession, I think we take a very different view of home ownership oftentimes. Ownership doesn't seem more secure to me. Even without a mortgage, the nonsense I've seen with property taxes alone makes it feel so much more tenuous than I think it's felt for a lot of previous generations.

Also, add me to the bucket of- I absolutely CAN do my own maintenance. I just really enjoy not having to. Husband and I had a house for a couple years. And it was lovely and amazing but a total time and energy suck. We put a lot of work in while we were there, and also got lucky with the market timing, and flipped it for a tidy profit. And yet, we're quite happy being back to renting. We've got a baby coming- I'm delighted not to have more things to stay on top of. Plus, husband just got a new job. It's nice to know we'll easily be able to move areas if it proves to be more convenient.

nereo

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2019, 09:40:44 AM »
I think this really gets at a generational difference- for so long, home ownership was core to the 'american dream', and had this aura of security. But for those of us who were impressionable during the recession, I think we take a very different view of home ownership oftentimes. Ownership doesn't seem more secure to me. Even without a mortgage, the nonsense I've seen with property taxes alone makes it feel so much more tenuous than I think it's felt for a lot of previous generations.

Good point - my parents definitely subscribe to the doctrine that home ownership is core to stability. We actually feel LESS secure with our mortgage than we do with rentals, in part because we know that we can pick up and leave in a couple of months if opportunity knocks.  No doubt this was influenced by living through the mortgage crisis when we saw numerous friend who went underwater and 'got stuck'. 


Also, add me to the bucket of- I absolutely CAN do my own maintenance. I just really enjoy not having to. Husband and I had a house for a couple years. And it was lovely and amazing but a total time and energy suck. We put a lot of work in while we were there, and also got lucky with the market timing, and flipped it for a tidy profit. And yet, we're quite happy being back to renting. We've got a baby coming- I'm delighted not to have more things to stay on top of.
I didn't say this in your other thread but I'm so happy for you guys!  Yay!
From recent experience having a baby takes up much of your otherwise free time.  For us we were deeply thankful not to need to spend hours each week on home maintenence/yardwork with our current rental.  I'm pretty confident that we'll go back to owning in a few years once the kid is in school and our workload has dropped substantially.  In the meantime I get just a few hours/week at best.  And I don't want to spend them cleaning gutters or caulking windows or replacing the air filter like I did with my last home.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2019, 04:31:27 PM »
I didn't say this in your other thread but I'm so happy for you guys!  Yay!
From recent experience having a baby takes up much of your otherwise free time.  For us we were deeply thankful not to need to spend hours each week on home maintenence/yardwork with our current rental.  I'm pretty confident that we'll go back to owning in a few years once the kid is in school and our workload has dropped substantially.  In the meantime I get just a few hours/week at best.  And I don't want to spend them cleaning gutters or caulking windows or replacing the air filter like I did with my last home.

Thank you! We're so excited. Now that I'm 25 weeks and getting kicked all the time, it's starting to feel like this may actually work out and result in an infant... how cool!

We're in a similar boat. At some point we'll almost certainly go back to being home owners. Right now though, it just doesn't make sense for us!

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2019, 09:21:47 PM »
I need to be frank, I am sure you misunderstand me and I misunderstand you. I canít figure out why you bring up the example of you being a landlord-owner or an owner-landlord without saying anything about the maintenance - my main point.
Sure, if one wants to find a reason to justify anything, there is absolutely nothing that can stop them.
If one wants to be a renter - they are going to find their reasons and are going to rent, if one want to be a homeowner - they are going to buy. It doesn't mean they should. They might be "renters" - have renters' mentality, being used for someone else to do the maintenance for them, someone like mom and dad aka a landlord. Why did they buy is a different story.
In computers world there are lamers/users and hackers. Some people are just users, similar to the RE world where some people are renters. I don't know if there is a "renter/tenant error" similar to a "user error," but there should be one. I, for example, alway build my rentals "tenant proof." I alway add 2x4s under the drywall where a towel rack goes or a toilet paper holder, and it still doesn't work. I resort now to anchors able to hold 200 lbs for a toilet paper holder.
For clarity I was the one who first called you out for saying that some people were renters / they need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their related problems.
It's the way you've characterized an entire group of people that's objectionable, and made even more offensive by the long list of reasons given by numerous other posters in this thread.  Had you said "some people lack the knowledge or desire to undertake home maintenance" I'm sure everyone here would have agreed.  But that's not what you said.  For starters, describing a group of people as needing mommy and daddy condescending.  Then you double-down on this by referencing another obnoxious and derogatory term, 'lamers' for anyone who is not a hacker.

The whole reason why ketchup mentioned that s/he has also been a owner, renter and landlord is to highlight that your dichotomy of splitting people into owners who are competent and renters who need assistance from their parents or landlords is false. FWIW I'm in a similar situation to ketchup (outlined above) and I'm pretty adept at home maintenance. In fact I've recently watched our appointed handyman take 2x as long to do a few repair jobs in our rental that I know I would have done better.

Stop trying to 'get rid' of people just because they don't agree with your responses. This forum promotes open discussion, within the forum rules, even when its discordant.
Stop telling people what they should or should not do.
I had no idea someone disagreed with my responses.
You are so hilarious to read, I can't even believe you seriously are still on this topic trying to convince me that I am condescending (it's also amusing to read you calling me names and at the same time referencing that I break the forum rules; do you do this on purpose? C'mon, tell us the truth. It's only us, I won't tell anybody).

Sure, if it makes you feel better, I'll tell you that tenants are great, they never do anything stupid, and lamers don't even exist, it's all a fragment of my imagination, a fiction I made up because I was bored out of my mind. Here, you can live in an ideal world. No "mom and dad" stuff,
-Here, mom, it broke, fix it.
- Did you break it?
- Noooo, it was broken.
That's a real conversation I have had with my kids and my tenants (tenants don't call me "mom," tho).

Just for the sake of it, because it's soooo funny, and is going to rob others of a good Friday entertainment. Have you even read what I wrote? Have you noticed that I wrote several times that some owners should rent, which means I DO NOT think that homeowners are competent. What are you going to say to that? There was no dichotomy? Or was there? Or wait, you said it was false. What was false? Wait a sec...

But, hey, hooray to you for being "adept," someone has to be, I guess. Since we have decided already that I'm condescending, can I call you "adept" from now on, it's just "nereo" seems a bit dull.

ElleFiji

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2019, 09:39:04 PM »
My $1050/month apartment would cost 3-400 000 to buy, plus $6-800/month in condo fees. I'd love to buy, but I'd need to win a huge lottery to make that kind of wasteful choice. Instead I'll eventually become both a landlord and a tenant, buying a property that makes money but that is not for me to live in.

I love the flexibility of renting, but I do want the security of owning.

ilsy

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2019, 09:51:44 PM »
I need to be frank, I am sure you misunderstand me and I misunderstand you. I canít figure out why you bring up the example of you being a landlord-owner or an owner-landlord without saying anything about the maintenance - my main point.
Sure, if one wants to find a reason to justify anything, there is absolutely nothing that can stop them.
If one wants to be a renter - they are going to find their reasons and are going to rent, if one want to be a homeowner - they are going to buy. It doesn't mean they should. They might be "renters" - have renters' mentality, being used for someone else to do the maintenance for them, someone like mom and dad aka a landlord. Why did they buy is a different story.
In computers world there are lamers/users and hackers. Some people are just users, similar to the RE world where some people are renters. I don't know if there is a "renter/tenant error" similar to a "user error," but there should be one. I, for example, alway build my rentals "tenant proof." I alway add 2x4s under the drywall where a towel rack goes or a toilet paper holder, and it still doesn't work. I resort now to anchors able to hold 200 lbs for a toilet paper holder.
For clarity I was the one who first called you out for saying that some people were renters / they need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their related problems.
It's the way you've characterized an entire group of people that's objectionable, and made even more offensive by the long list of reasons given by numerous other posters in this thread.  Had you said "some people lack the knowledge or desire to undertake home maintenance" I'm sure everyone here would have agreed.  But that's not what you said.  For starters, describing a group of people as needing mommy and daddy condescending.  Then you double-down on this by referencing another obnoxious and derogatory term, 'lamers' for anyone who is not a hacker.

The whole reason why ketchup mentioned that s/he has also been a owner, renter and landlord is to highlight that your dichotomy of splitting people into owners who are competent and renters who need assistance from their parents or landlords is false. FWIW I'm in a similar situation to ketchup (outlined above) and I'm pretty adept at home maintenance. In fact I've recently watched our appointed handyman take 2x as long to do a few repair jobs in our rental that I know I would have done better.

Stop trying to 'get rid' of people just because they don't agree with your responses. This forum promotes open discussion, within the forum rules, even when its discordant.
+1.  Thanks for jumping back in, nereo.

I don't think I've heard the term "lamers" since the late 90s/early 00s.  I didn't realize anyone over the age of 12 used it unironically.

His goal is to get rid of me?  He sounds fun.

I completely understand him.  Until he just re-doubled down, part of me still thought I might be misinterpreting.

I happen to work in IT, and comparing "users" and "renters" in this way is hilariously insulting to both groups.  Does IT exist just because people are too dumb to set up their own AD user account?  Because Karen in accounting isn't smart enough to maintain the Quickbooks server so mommy and daddy (IT) does it instead?  IT exists so that nobody else has to patch the network hoses and top off the internet fluid so everyone else can do their damn job.  And that doesn't make us better than everyone else at the company (our users).   Without them, there's no business.  Just like without renters, there are no rental properties.

Only a few comments here,
First, I'm glad I used 'Lamers' ironically, so passed their by the skin of my teeth, since I'm way above 12.
Second, I'm a "she," not that it really matters, but at least I won't skip it thinking that it wasn't about me.

Again I feel... um  significant because I made people realize how important everyone is in our lives, and what important role everyone plays. Even though, I didn't mention IT at all, I think I should totally take credit for them being mentioned. What else? Why do I feel that it has nothing to do with me, but some transference takes place from the past unresolved conflicts?

waltworks

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2019, 10:15:39 PM »
Ilsy, I am confused. Are you saying that choosing to rent a place to live means you're an inferior human being? Because that's what you seem to be saying.

On the other hand, if you can rent a million dollar house for $3k a month... maybe it's not that you need mommy and daddy, but that you can do math.

-W

ketchup

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2019, 02:29:49 PM »
I need to be frank, I am sure you misunderstand me and I misunderstand you. I canít figure out why you bring up the example of you being a landlord-owner or an owner-landlord without saying anything about the maintenance - my main point.
Sure, if one wants to find a reason to justify anything, there is absolutely nothing that can stop them.
If one wants to be a renter - they are going to find their reasons and are going to rent, if one want to be a homeowner - they are going to buy. It doesn't mean they should. They might be "renters" - have renters' mentality, being used for someone else to do the maintenance for them, someone like mom and dad aka a landlord. Why did they buy is a different story.
In computers world there are lamers/users and hackers. Some people are just users, similar to the RE world where some people are renters. I don't know if there is a "renter/tenant error" similar to a "user error," but there should be one. I, for example, alway build my rentals "tenant proof." I alway add 2x4s under the drywall where a towel rack goes or a toilet paper holder, and it still doesn't work. I resort now to anchors able to hold 200 lbs for a toilet paper holder.
For clarity I was the one who first called you out for saying that some people were renters / they need mom and dad, aka a landlord, to take care of their related problems.
It's the way you've characterized an entire group of people that's objectionable, and made even more offensive by the long list of reasons given by numerous other posters in this thread.  Had you said "some people lack the knowledge or desire to undertake home maintenance" I'm sure everyone here would have agreed.  But that's not what you said.  For starters, describing a group of people as needing mommy and daddy condescending.  Then you double-down on this by referencing another obnoxious and derogatory term, 'lamers' for anyone who is not a hacker.

The whole reason why ketchup mentioned that s/he has also been a owner, renter and landlord is to highlight that your dichotomy of splitting people into owners who are competent and renters who need assistance from their parents or landlords is false. FWIW I'm in a similar situation to ketchup (outlined above) and I'm pretty adept at home maintenance. In fact I've recently watched our appointed handyman take 2x as long to do a few repair jobs in our rental that I know I would have done better.

Stop trying to 'get rid' of people just because they don't agree with your responses. This forum promotes open discussion, within the forum rules, even when its discordant.
+1.  Thanks for jumping back in, nereo.

I don't think I've heard the term "lamers" since the late 90s/early 00s.  I didn't realize anyone over the age of 12 used it unironically.

His goal is to get rid of me?  He sounds fun.

I completely understand him.  Until he just re-doubled down, part of me still thought I might be misinterpreting.

I happen to work in IT, and comparing "users" and "renters" in this way is hilariously insulting to both groups.  Does IT exist just because people are too dumb to set up their own AD user account?  Because Karen in accounting isn't smart enough to maintain the Quickbooks server so mommy and daddy (IT) does it instead?  IT exists so that nobody else has to patch the network hoses and top off the internet fluid so everyone else can do their damn job.  And that doesn't make us better than everyone else at the company (our users).   Without them, there's no business.  Just like without renters, there are no rental properties.

Only a few comments here,
First, I'm glad I used 'Lamers' ironically, so passed their by the skin of my teeth, since I'm way above 12.
Second, I'm a "she," not that it really matters, but at least I won't skip it thinking that it wasn't about me.

Again I feel... um  significant because I made people realize how important everyone is in our lives, and what important role everyone plays. Even though, I didn't mention IT at all, I think I should totally take credit for them being mentioned. What else? Why do I feel that it has nothing to do with me, but some transference takes place from the past unresolved conflicts?
Apologies for the "he."  Bad habit of assumption; the internet tends to be a sausage fest.

You brought up "in the computers world" and "lamers/users" as condescending terms (ironically or not).  I don't think IT is a stretch at all from that topic.

nereo

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2019, 06:45:36 PM »

You are so hilarious to read, I can't even believe you seriously are still on this topic trying to convince me that I am condescending (it's also amusing to read you calling me names and at the same time referencing that I break the forum rules; do you do this on purpose? C'mon, tell us the truth. It's only us, I won't tell anybody).


I did not call you names, and I work hard to stay within the forum rules.  I did say that your comment was condescending, and then explained why I thought that.
Also, this is an open thread that anyone can read - there is no "only us" here.

Just for the sake of it, because it's soooo funny, and is going to rob others of a good Friday entertainment. Have you even read what I wrote? Have you noticed that I wrote several times that some owners should rent, which means I DO NOT think that homeowners are competent. What are you going to say to that? There was no dichotomy? Or was there? Or wait, you said it was false. What was false? Wait a sec...
yes, I have read what you wrote, and I'm not disagreeing that some owners should rent. The topic subject is "why does someone rent"; not "when should owners rent".

ketchup

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Re: Why does someone rent?
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2019, 07:13:17 PM »
@nereo , I'm more and more just suspecting simple trolling (and successful trolling at that).
Stop trying to 'get rid' of people just because they don't agree with your responses. This forum promotes open discussion, within the forum rules, even when its discordant.
Stop telling people what they should or should not do.
We probably should have stopped at this wonderful exchange.  She told you to stop telling people what to do, while telling you to do that.  I had to read it twice.  I was waiting for the punchline.