Author Topic: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga  (Read 8666 times)

Goldielocks

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2020, 07:38:10 PM »
FYi -- Don't offset rent, the tenancy laws tend to get very confused if you need to go to eviction if rent is missed / shorted in future, if you start to do this.  Instead, just agree on a cash payment for work completed upfront, and pay as you go to him.  Sounds like he is used to acting like a contractor.

Paying cash for services as you go lets you negotiate it each time, and just to stop "hiring" him when you need to without any other impacts.

iluvzbeach

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2020, 09:43:45 PM »
Did you not have a formal inspection on this place?

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2020, 12:26:05 AM »
Did you not have a formal inspection on this place?

I did a walkthrough with my stepdad who is knowledgeable about home repair, and made the mistake of assuming that paired with the bank's appraisal would be sufficient to uncover any major issues. Unfortunately the appraisal was completely pencil-whipped from the looks of it.

Lesson learned. Going forward I'll be sure to get actual inspections done by general contractors.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2020, 05:56:15 AM »
I was an appraiser (commercial properties only). The inspection is a small part of the overall process. Basically enough to establish how the property fits in the market. Is it typical for the area, in obvious bad condition, or a white elephant that the previous owner spent way too much on (i.e. luxury finishes in a working-class neighborhood of older homes).

Unfortunately there are appraisers out there who don't take their professional and ethical obligations seriously and will just pencil whip it. I'll be if you dug into it you would find your lender uses an Appraisal Management Company (AMC). So instead of hiring a good appraiser for $350-500 they hire the ones who are willing to work for $150-200 because the AMC takes a generous cut off the top for their management services - i.e. having a trained monkey make sure a form looks right without actually doing any meaningful review. Things aren't as bad as back in the 2000s but unfortunately there's still enough people out there just looking to make a buck the easiest way possible, i.e. find some sales that will let them conclude the value is equal to or higher than the pending sale - even if those sales aren't comparable or they overlook some problems with the subject property.

couponvan

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2020, 07:17:33 AM »
We bought a foreclosure house for $55k-I call it the money pit. Itís habitable upstairs, but the basement and laundry are still an issue. Every year we say we will spend the $30k to finish the basement. Every year we do not. Sigh. Itís not a rental though, so putting that $ into a non-productive asset isnít the most important item.

NonprofitER

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2020, 08:16:20 AM »
Great saga, @Valley of Plenty !
Thanks for posting and keeping us all updated.

This will be a great investment once you get it up to scratch. You've done awesome work trading short-term hassle for long-term income!
If there was one thing I wish I had done when I was younger, it's house hack. It's a great way to hit the ground running on real estate.

@sammybiker was part of our inspiration for getting into real estate investing, as was @arebelspy . Their posts about BRRRing and landlording respectively really got us crunching numbers and making a plan. While I don't pretend to be anywhere near as successful as they are at it, we have managed to pick up 3 rentals and are under contract for 4 more (as 50% partners - so really 2 more units are "ours"). I never would have gotten into real estate investing were it not for this forum and the Bigger Pockets forum. I'm convinced that real estate is a crucial piece to long-term wealth generation and accelerating FIRE.

waltworks

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2020, 10:13:07 PM »
This story is awesome. $45 triplex... just fantastic. Congrats on putting in the work to get the deal done.

-W

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2020, 03:51:23 PM »
Nice update OP!

I'm loving your positive/can do attitude at any new problems that arise and taking advantage of them when possible.

I feel like you could find a 5 foot rat in the basement and you would just kill it with a baseball bat and sell it to some dude down the street for $20.

All jokes aside, I agree with you that your perseverance and can do attitude is making all of this possible.

Lol, please do note that you were full of shit about the condition of the home:

"3. I will take you up on that bet if you're serious. Myself, the appraiser, and the inspector I brought through all found nothing major needing addressed besides the things I listed (roof, furnace, floors)...it would sell in a heartbeat"

Your appraiser sounds like a lame duck and your "inspector" was your step-dad who knows a "few things about home repairs."

But it's all good. No harm done. I do seriously caution you that there are a lot of deferred maintenance on this house that you still have no clue about. But as mentioned, you have the perfect attitude so you will find a solution and make it all work.

I also concur with the other poster who stated not to mix rent with work around the house. But other than that, sounds like you will be purchasing a 45k triplex very soon!

Best of luck and appreciate you keeping us updated!

theoverlook

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2020, 08:04:27 AM »
Perseverance can overcome a lot. Life, after all, is a marathon and not a sprint. I like this Calvin Coolidge quote coupled with this Zen Pencils comic: https://www.zenpencils.com/comic/40-calvin-coolidge-never-give-up/

On the bartering rent for labor thing; the way I've done bartering like that in the past was to have each party invoice the other and just settle up the difference. That way there's no question about value received or nebulous "I worked on the house so I'm not paying rent" type conversations. You invoice him for rent, he invoices you for specific work done at an agreed upon price.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2020, 06:51:25 PM »
Lol, please do note that you were full of shit about the condition of the home:

"3. I will take you up on that bet if you're serious. Myself, the appraiser, and the inspector I brought through all found nothing major needing addressed besides the things I listed (roof, furnace, floors)...it would sell in a heartbeat"

Your appraiser sounds like a lame duck and your "inspector" was your step-dad who knows a "few things about home repairs."

But it's all good. No harm done. I do seriously caution you that there are a lot of deferred maintenance on this house that you still have no clue about. But as mentioned, you have the perfect attitude so you will find a solution and make it all work.

Yeah, you got me! I was definitely wrong on that one. Unfortunately outrageous optimism can result in overly generous assumptions if not tempered with reasonable expectations of what can go wrong. I amend my original statement to say that while there may be hidden issues, I am confident that they will not be serious enough to sour the deal.


Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2020, 07:53:15 PM »
Further update: the new loan estimate came in from the bank today. The estimated monthly mortgage payment is now $488/month. That's with everything included: principal, interest, taxes, and homeowner's insurance.

I'll be bringing in $900/month in rents as soon as I take ownership; that's $600/month for the tenant in the 2 bedroom, and $300/month for my roommate who is renting one room out of the 3 bedroom unit I'll be living in. Hopefully I'll be able to place a tenant in the one bedroom by spring for $500/month, which will result in a total positive cash flow of nearly $1,000/month! Not bad for year one on a house hack!

This reminds me that I need to find time to re-run the numbers using the calculators on Bigger Pockets.

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2020, 09:02:02 PM »
lol all good brother. I'm jealous of those numbers. Of course the rental income, but more so just the PITI being <500. That's insane!

I hope this home brings you lots of pride, joy, and income for many years to come!

waltworks

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #62 on: November 20, 2020, 09:10:08 PM »
My grad-school era self would be instantly retired on those numbers. LOL.

-W

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2020, 02:08:21 AM »
My grad-school era self would be instantly retired on those numbers. LOL.

-W

I could probably live on $1,000/month right now actually, though it would be a tight budget. Right now my annual spend is about $20k, and that's paying $450/month in rent. If I can reduce my cost of housing to $0 with $1,000 a month left over, I'll be technically Lean FI.

couponvan

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2020, 05:56:46 AM »
Iíd more figure thatís $1,000 per month to pay on the unexpected surprises of home ownership that seem to cost $1,000 per month but will last many many years in the future. Fridge, oven, washer, dryer, water heater, toilet and sink replacement, painting, you name it, you will probably be needing/wanting to do it once you have the cash flow available. After 2-3 years the profits will be able to be harvested for the next great thing-maybe that old guy will have more properties to offload.

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2020, 11:07:21 AM »
that's a good point couponvan, become BFFs with the owner and buy all of his other properties lol.

I know we are getting ahead, but my last advice is to not sink too much money into this home. This amazing 45K home could easily cost 100K plus within a year or two if you start repairing/upgrading odds and ends. Remember that this is a rental home and not your permanent home and be mindful to not over fix it up above neighborhood comps. You are young and on an awesome track. Keep thinking bigger! Develop an end goal (which will most likely include another property or two) and keep that will power of yours strong. Set your self up so that you will be financially free forever.   

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2020, 06:36:02 PM »
Iíd more figure thatís $1,000 per month to pay on the unexpected surprises of home ownership that seem to cost $1,000 per month but will last many many years in the future. Fridge, oven, washer, dryer, water heater, toilet and sink replacement, painting, you name it, you will probably be needing/wanting to do it once you have the cash flow available. After 2-3 years the profits will be able to be harvested for the next great thing-maybe that old guy will have more properties to offload.

I'm already accounting for setting aside 10% of rental profits for maintenance expenditures, and 10% for vacancy. With the $20,000 of repairs that I'm going to be front-loading, I expect this will be sufficient. All of the units have fairly new appliances already installed. There's definitely some minor things that I'd like to do as far as updating and repainting things, but that will get done gradually over time. Apartments in this area tend to be quite dated, so none of those things are really necessities. That being said, I do want any properties I own to stand out as being at least slightly above average for the area.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2020, 06:41:53 PM »
that's a good point couponvan, become BFFs with the owner and buy all of his other properties lol.

I know we are getting ahead, but my last advice is to not sink too much money into this home. This amazing 45K home could easily cost 100K plus within a year or two if you start repairing/upgrading odds and ends. Remember that this is a rental home and not your permanent home and be mindful to not over fix it up above neighborhood comps. You are young and on an awesome track. Keep thinking bigger! Develop an end goal (which will most likely include another property or two) and keep that will power of yours strong. Set your self up so that you will be financially free forever.

After the initial $20k renovation budget, I have no plans for any major projects. Small upgrades will be done over time mostly using cash from any unexpected windfalls (which always seem to come my way). Even if I do end up sinking slightly more money into this place than anticipated, I'm not overly concerned because A, there is a *lot* of safety margin for this to remain a good investment; and B, this is my first experience owning a home of any kind, and I want to use it as a learning experience. The more things I can DIY in this place before buying my next property, the more prepared I'll be to secure another great deal.

Also, this property is the very last one that the owner has to sell, hence his desperation to get rid of it. After this one he's out for good.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2020, 06:51:14 PM »
On a related note, once this purchase goes through and the property is well and truly mine, I intend to start working on putting together a podcast.

It will be a financial independence podcast with a similar vision to this website: to provide lifestyle advice that also happens to help people become wealthy and successful.

I'm going to use the story of the $45,000 triplex as a starting point, since that's a very unique and exciting story that not many people are able to tell. From there I'll be talking about a variety of topics related to financial independence and of course, Mustachianism.

I'll post more details here once I have them. I'll also make a dedicated thread somewhere else on the forum about it.

uniwelder

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2020, 06:37:54 AM »

Edit: Oh, and the roofing company will be installing a metal roof before winter, for the price of $13,650. Surprisingly this is cheaper than shingles, which would have cost me $16,500.

I was just reading through and noticed this.  Can you share some details about what the metal roofing crew is going to do?  There are plenty of ways to screw up an installation.  I'm not an expert, but I do know of the most common crappy way a new roof is installed over shingles---- typically a vapor barrier is rolled our over the old shingles, the metal panels are slapped on top and screwed through.  Since the crew doesn't take off the old shingles, no one is looking for rotten wood.  Some of the screws don't get fastened down tightly (leaving an entrance for water) because 1) either they hit rotten wood and strip or 2) they're located just above the shingle overlap and there's dead air space that causes a dimple to form in the panel.  Also, over time as the panel expands and contracts, it abrades against the shingles at the screw penetration.

Also to add--- I really like metal roofs, but if you expect to need to walk around on it, be aware of your roof pitch.  I have found 4/12 is pretty comfortable, 5/12 needs clean sneakers for sure, and I haven't ventured on anything steeper than that, nor would I be comfortable.  A brand new roof is very slippery as it hasn't built up any layer of dirt, and even at 4/12, you'll end up sliding down slowly if you're standing on it.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 06:47:27 AM by uniwelder »

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2020, 07:52:10 AM »

Edit: Oh, and the roofing company will be installing a metal roof before winter, for the price of $13,650. Surprisingly this is cheaper than shingles, which would have cost me $16,500.

I was just reading through and noticed this.  Can you share some details about what the metal roofing crew is going to do?  There are plenty of ways to screw up an installation.  I'm not an expert, but I do know of the most common crappy way a new roof is installed over shingles---- typically a vapor barrier is rolled our over the old shingles, the metal panels are slapped on top and screwed through.  Since the crew doesn't take off the old shingles, no one is looking for rotten wood.  Some of the screws don't get fastened down tightly (leaving an entrance for water) because 1) either they hit rotten wood and strip or 2) they're located just above the shingle overlap and there's dead air space that causes a dimple to form in the panel.  Also, over time as the panel expands and contracts, it abrades against the shingles at the screw penetration.

Also to add--- I really like metal roofs, but if you expect to need to walk around on it, be aware of your roof pitch.  I have found 4/12 is pretty comfortable, 5/12 needs clean sneakers for sure, and I haven't ventured on anything steeper than that, nor would I be comfortable.  A brand new roof is very slippery as it hasn't built up any layer of dirt, and even at 4/12, you'll end up sliding down slowly if you're standing on it.

This is actually an amish roofing crew. The amish are widely regarded as the best in the business around here. They do solid work quickly and affordably, but most importantly for my situation is that they are about the only ones willing to undertake a roofing project at the onset of winter. It's either I go through an amish company or I wait until spring, and I'm not confident that the dormer will safely bear the weight of snow and ice. So, I'd like to get this done ASAP.

As for installation, they have told me that they plan to place the roof directly over the shingles. I expressed similar concerns as you, but they assured me that they have installed hundreds of these roofs using the same method and received absolutely no complaints. They also guarantee their roofs for 40 years, so if something were to go wrong with it, they would fix the problem free of charge. Rotten boards aren't really a concern, I've been inside the crawlspace and inspected all of the joists and rafters myself - everything is solid and dry with the exception of the boards inside the dormer. Those shingles will be coming off and new boards installed. They also gave me the option of eliminating the dormer entirely, but I don't think that's necessary or ideal.

I would never go on this roof, metal or not. It's extremely high and extremely steep. I want to learn roofing, but this is definitely not the sort of building to learn on. I'll be outsourcing any projects that require walking around on the roof.

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #71 on: November 23, 2020, 10:50:57 AM »
Uniwelder brings up a very important point that I didn't even think about.

Roofing costs vary greatly by region so I have no idea if your estimate is good or not. However, it does sound low for a tall high pitched building with dormers.

Here's what I did, I bought my property knowing it needed a roof yesteryear in November just like you. I just put a huge tarp on it until spring. It won't be pretty, but it's super cheap and 100% water resistant. A handyman can do it for you in a couple of hours.

This way you can compare quotes in the spring.

I've personally built 3 roofs in the last 5 years. I chose to take off all layers (and changed one flat roof to a pitch roof). The most time consuming part by far is the demolition, clean up, and prep. Putting down new shingles or metal takes a day. I hate that people get away with putting a new layer of anything over a broken/failing layer (mainly roofs and siding). Thousands of homes around me just put stucco over failing wood siding and I'm sure many hundreds of homes have 3 or 4 layers of roofs (mine had more). I don't have any science behind it, but I don't like it and it's no doubt a super short cut and does jeopardize the longevity of whatever you put on it. 

I could go way more into the nuts and bolts like what size your rafters are and if there is plywood or not (most likely not), but that's up to you. Just my two cents.


 


giggles

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2020, 10:13:44 AM »
Tagging to follow!

Michael in ABQ

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2020, 04:28:42 PM »
Uniwelder brings up a very important point that I didn't even think about.

Roofing costs vary greatly by region so I have no idea if your estimate is good or not. However, it does sound low for a tall high pitched building with dormers.

Here's what I did, I bought my property knowing it needed a roof yesteryear in November just like you. I just put a huge tarp on it until spring. It won't be pretty, but it's super cheap and 100% water resistant. A handyman can do it for you in a couple of hours.

This way you can compare quotes in the spring.

I've personally built 3 roofs in the last 5 years. I chose to take off all layers (and changed one flat roof to a pitch roof). The most time consuming part by far is the demolition, clean up, and prep. Putting down new shingles or metal takes a day. I hate that people get away with putting a new layer of anything over a broken/failing layer (mainly roofs and siding). Thousands of homes around me just put stucco over failing wood siding and I'm sure many hundreds of homes have 3 or 4 layers of roofs (mine had more). I don't have any science behind it, but I don't like it and it's no doubt a super short cut and does jeopardize the longevity of whatever you put on it. 

I could go way more into the nuts and bolts like what size your rafters are and if there is plywood or not (most likely not), but that's up to you. Just my two cents.

Several years ago I appraised an industrial warehouse with a pitched metal roof. I noticed that the rafters looked like they were sagging a little. When I got up on the roof I saw they had installed a built-up asphalt roof over the existing metal roof. So they had added thousands of pounds of roofing on a structure that was never designed to hold that much. I can't recall ever seeing that kind of roofing on a pitched roof either. Although it was a pretty low pitch, maybe 2/12.

Flat roofs are very common here due to the low rainfall. Another building I appraised was an old office building with three layers of built-up asphalt roofing covered in gravel. Similar situation. Because the previous owners/roofers had been too cheap or lazy to remove the old roofing they were overloading the structure of the building. 

waltworks

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2020, 08:51:48 AM »
Agreed that slapping a metal roof on top of existing asphalt on an older/cheap structure seems extremely sketchy.

-W

monarda

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2020, 11:13:06 AM »
It might be worth it to see if they would take the old shingles off and then put the metal over the top of the decking. It might cost more than their current bid, but still might be a good deal. Then you won't have all the extra weight on the structure.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2020, 12:53:41 AM »
All of the research I have done suggests that installing a metal roof over shingles is perfectly fine as long as it's installed properly and the boards beneath the shingles are in good condition. I have been through the attic crawlspaces and can confirm that aside from the dormer, all of the boards are dry and sturdy. I do not think it would be necessary or worth the cost to have the shingles torn off. And at any rate, if the company is willing to give me a 40 year warranty for this roof, it doesn't seem like I'm taking on much risk by doing it.

That being said, it's looking like I won't be able to close until mid December, so I'm also weighing the possibility of just throwing a tarp over the dormer, bracing it from the inside, and waiting until spring. For tax reasons it would benefit me to install the roof next year as opposed to this year (no rental income this year to offset with the $13,000 expense), and I'm unsure if I'll be able to get even the Amish to commit to this project once snow starts to fall.

waltworks

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2020, 08:25:22 AM »
"Dry and sturdy" construction can still fail if it's overloaded, though. That's the thing. I'd guess the house was built in the era of shake roofs? If so even the asphalt is way heavier than that. Adding another layer/more weight might be just fine... but it also might not.

-W

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2020, 11:44:33 AM »
Valley,

Roof warranties are not what you think they are. First off, like flooring warranties, they are impossible to get honored. Secondly, even if honored they are prorated. Thirdly, is the warranty the metal roof failure not installation. Meaning that if the metal roof fails at year 10, the Amish expect you to contact the manufacturer of the metal roof and request new metal roofs at the cost of 75% discount (10/40), the Amish will recharge you for labor. More importantly, the metal roof will not fail, the underlayment is the weak spot. The Amish will tell you that your house needs to be fixed, not the roof and you will be back to square one. A roof should be one and done forever problem.

With all that said, just slow down, put the tarp, and get estimates with and without shingle removal. It's a fact that shingle removal is the correct way to roof.

However, I agree that the cost may not be worth it for a 45k house and you may just have to roll the dice and hope for the best.

Best of luck.

uniwelder

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2020, 03:25:44 PM »
Roof warranties are not what you think they are....
.....With all that said, just slow down, put the tarp, and get estimates with and without shingle removal. It's a fact that shingle removal is the correct way to roof.

Lilbenny34 makes some good points I hope you'll consider, though I can't validate them personally.

I actually came back to ask something a bit off topic---- The Amish don't use power tools, do they?  Is this a screw down type metal roof you're being quoted?  Could they be Mennonite instead?  It just got me curious.  My house had 5V style metal roofing on it originally, with lead capped nails, but probably not what you're being quoted.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 03:28:22 PM by uniwelder »

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2020, 11:14:18 PM »
Valley,

Roof warranties are not what you think they are. First off, like flooring warranties, they are impossible to get honored. Secondly, even if honored they are prorated. Thirdly, is the warranty the metal roof failure not installation. Meaning that if the metal roof fails at year 10, the Amish expect you to contact the manufacturer of the metal roof and request new metal roofs at the cost of 75% discount (10/40), the Amish will recharge you for labor. More importantly, the metal roof will not fail, the underlayment is the weak spot. The Amish will tell you that your house needs to be fixed, not the roof and you will be back to square one. A roof should be one and done forever problem.

With all that said, just slow down, put the tarp, and get estimates with and without shingle removal. It's a fact that shingle removal is the correct way to roof.

However, I agree that the cost may not be worth it for a 45k house and you may just have to roll the dice and hope for the best.

Best of luck.
[/quote

You make excellent points. I think holding off until the spring is likely the best bet. It may still be that I decide to go without shingle removal, but at least I'll feel less like I'm rushing blindly into things.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2020, 11:19:42 PM »
Roof warranties are not what you think they are....
.....With all that said, just slow down, put the tarp, and get estimates with and without shingle removal. It's a fact that shingle removal is the correct way to roof.

Lilbenny34 makes some good points I hope you'll consider, though I can't validate them personally.

I actually came back to ask something a bit off topic---- The Amish don't use power tools, do they?  Is this a screw down type metal roof you're being quoted?  Could they be Mennonite instead?  It just got me curious.  My house had 5V style metal roofing on it originally, with lead capped nails, but probably not what you're being quoted.

They do use power tools. Now that I think of it they do seem more Mennonite than Amish, but they are regarded by everyone around here as Amish. I'm not sure exactly how they would identify themselves.

theoverlook

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #82 on: November 30, 2020, 08:21:59 AM »
Many of the Amish use power tools just fine, they run them off a generator. It depends wholly upon the rules of their sect.

@Valley of Plenty : They're probably quoting an exposed fastener metal roof which is not quite as nice as a standing seam metal roof. The fasteners are, as the name implies, exposed which means the rubber donut washers are all that seals water out from the screw holes. They can (and will) harden and cause leaks down the road. I don't have a good source for info on that but if you search "exposed fastener metal roof" there are a ton of matches talking about them vs standing seam. It's cheaper, but it's cheaper for a reason.

A warranty is only as good as the company backing it. A random guy with a crew isn't going to be coming in and fixing the roof in 15 years if there's a leak.

uniwelder

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #83 on: November 30, 2020, 09:02:29 AM »
Assuming it is screwed down, there are two different ways to accomplish that--- through the flats or the ridges.  From the manufacturer I got mine from, they would only warranty if its through the flats and against a solid substrate (no shingles) with underlayment or purlins.  Ignoring the manufacturer, and going with advice from everyone I talked to about metal roofs, I put mine through the ridges.  It will never leak, but isn't warrantied because the screws will eventually fatigue due to bending when the panels expand and contract--- just replace the screws whenever that happens, probably at least 20 years.  Even on my old 5V roof, after 70 years with nails that backed out or were completely missing, it didn't leak or show any wood rot where the fastener was.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #84 on: November 30, 2020, 08:02:25 PM »
@Valley of Plenty : They're probably quoting an exposed fastener metal roof which is not quite as nice as a standing seam metal roof. The fasteners are, as the name implies, exposed which means the rubber donut washers are all that seals water out from the screw holes. They can (and will) harden and cause leaks down the road. I don't have a good source for info on that but if you search "exposed fastener metal roof" there are a ton of matches talking about them vs standing seam. It's cheaper, but it's cheaper for a reason.

Yeah, the quote is for exposed fasteners. I inquired about standing seam and they said that they don't install that type as they don't have enough experience installing them to be comfortable doing it.

If I can get the roof through the winter (which I'm fairly certain I can), I'll have a lot more options as far as what companies I can contract the work through. I'll see if I can get a couple quotes for standing seam with shingle removal. I'm sure it will be considerably more expensive, but it may be worth the cost. And as I've said earlier in this thread, this deal has a lot of wiggle room. An extra $10k for the roof wouldn't make this a bad deal.

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #85 on: November 30, 2020, 09:50:37 PM »
OP,

You are doing the right thing. Your roof will last many years with a tarp lol. Worry about closing the deal and moving in. One step at a time.

uniwelder

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #86 on: December 01, 2020, 06:08:58 AM »
Siding with lilbenny34 again.... Yes, sorry for all the nitpicking.  This is one of those cases of "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".  I think I first heard that quote somewhere here on the forums.

theoverlook

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2020, 07:57:26 AM »
OP,

You are doing the right thing. Your roof will last many years with a tarp lol. Worry about closing the deal and moving in. One step at a time.
This is very true!

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2020, 10:13:26 PM »
Closing Date V2.0 is set for 12/10. Hopefully there will be no more unexpected surprises...

...but if there are... *cocks optimism gun dramatically*

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #89 on: December 05, 2020, 07:41:04 PM »
12/10 it is! only 5 more day :)

sammybiker

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2020, 08:56:03 PM »
also more pics and less text @Valley of Plenty  pleaseeeee

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2020, 09:26:19 PM »
lol amen sammy, you haven't posted a single picture! It can be inside or upside down or whatever if you want to protect your privacy. We don't care. But we do wonder what a 45k property in your town looks like and if it's actually in decent condition. It could potentially save you money too, if we can point some stuff out.

former player

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2020, 02:14:03 AM »
lol amen sammy, you haven't posted a single picture! It can be inside or upside down or whatever if you want to protect your privacy. We don't care. But we do wonder what a 45k property in your town looks like and if it's actually in decent condition. It could potentially save you money too, if we can point some stuff out.
Come on, we're all just inquisitive/jealous and any help that results for Valley of Plenty will be merely incidental.

Dicey

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2020, 04:06:38 AM »
lol amen sammy, you haven't posted a single picture! It can be inside or upside down or whatever if you want to protect your privacy. We don't care. But we do wonder what a 45k property in your town looks like and if it's actually in decent condition. It could potentially save you money too, if we can point some stuff out.
Come on, we're all just inquisitive/jealous nosy and any help that results for Valley of Plenty will be merely incidental.
FTFY. One of us is just plain nosy. [Dicey raises hand.]

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2020, 06:04:47 PM »
also more pics and less text @Valley of Plenty  pleaseeeee

I actually did go in a few days ago and took LOTS of pictures, I just need to upload them somewhere so that I can share them here. Any recommendations for image hosting sites?

PMJL34

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2020, 07:35:19 PM »
I've got my popcorn ready! Let's do this :)

Thanks again Valley for letting us follow your journey!

couponvan

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2020, 10:00:33 PM »
Email them to yourself from yourself to allow the resolution to be lower. Save images back to your phone. Post low resolution pics 4 at a time and tease us...thatís how I post pics anyway.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #97 on: December 07, 2020, 02:16:52 AM »
Email them to yourself from yourself to allow the resolution to be lower. Save images back to your phone. Post low resolution pics 4 at a time and tease us...thatís how I post pics anyway.

But don't you have to post images using a link? And wouldn't that require the use of a file hosting website to provide said link?

deborah

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2020, 02:33:00 AM »
There are two ways to post pictures. Firstly as a link. The second way is to preview the post and tick the attachments button, then attach up to four pictures. They all appear at the end of the post.

couponvan

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Re: The Great $55,000 Triplex Saga
« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2020, 09:38:23 AM »
What Deborah said. I just post pics as attachments. You can go back and edit your post later if you want to delete pictures later. No hosting site required.