Author Topic: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal  (Read 4635 times)

Bearded Man

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Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« on: June 19, 2014, 06:09:47 PM »
I emailed my tenant more than 8 weeks ago about renewing the lease at the same rate, to which they replied they would and to go ahead and send them the paperwork I had talked about in the email.

Well, I mailed them the paperwork more than 5 weeks ago and here we are 12 days before their lease expires with no new lease. I have the email agreeing to renew, but no other legal document.

I am thinking of emailing them and letting them know I never received anything back, so if they have not sent it, please do, but if you didn't receive it, I'll stop by personally to get the paperwork done on site.

Or am I worried about nothing? I am sure they are procrastinating, but also ddon't want to be a doormat who's lost control.

gimp

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2014, 06:14:26 PM »
Email them.

It really depends on the type of place you had. When I was renting in college, I didn't really care because I knew I wouldn't be there next year, and landlords wanted lease renewals 8 months before it was up. Now I might take the time to think about it and decide and renew, since I want a bit more stability.

But yes, email them. "Hey, what do you folks think? Have you decided, or would you like to chat with me about any concerns? While I certainly would like for you to stay, unfortunately the due date is in twelve days and I will have to assume a 'no' if I don't have paperwork in my hand by then." Or whatever.

arebelspy

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2014, 07:14:04 PM »
Most people just are just unorganized.  Think about how people are late paying bills.

Communication is the #1 key to good landlord-tenant relationships.

Email them or call.  No big deal, just checking in, lease is expiring and you're going to go pick it up or can bring them a copy to sign (they may have lost it).

I wouldn't worry at all; I've had the exact same thing before, never any issues.
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Bearded Man

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2014, 07:35:41 PM »
Arebelspy wins again. Thanks folks.

Bearded Man

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2014, 08:19:30 AM »
Well I got a reply to my email; things have been hectic lately, and she can sign it and get it out today; but her husband is out of state until the 10th of July. Any issues if I wait until the 10th considering their lease has already expired by then?

I am tempted to have her either send it to him to sign (assuming he is not on a fishing boat or something) or use one of those digital signature apps I use to sign real estate contracts.

Might be easiest to just wait. They have never been late with a payment...

arebelspy

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2014, 08:23:51 AM »
Hmm..

(As always, not legal advice, consult your lawyer, etc.)

This is what I'd do in that situation: I'd have her sign it today and send it out to you, then have him sign a duplicate copy when he comes back.

Doesn't sound like there's any intent to move, they've always been good tenants, and having the communication (emails) that they're going to stay as well as the extension signed by one is probably good enough for now, and not worth the whole "sign this digitally now!" thing, IMO.

But do whatever makes you feel comfortable/whatever your legal counsel advises you.  Typically there's a clause in a lease that it automatically goes month-to-month at the end of the term, so you still have a valid, enforceable lease even without a signed extension.  Those things would make it "good enough" for me, personally.
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CommonCents

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2014, 08:35:05 AM »
Hmm..

(As always, not legal advice, consult your lawyer, etc.)

This is what I'd do in that situation: I'd have her sign it today and send it out to you, then have him sign a duplicate copy when he comes back.

Doesn't sound like there's any intent to move, they've always been good tenants, and having the communication (emails) that they're going to stay as well as the extension signed by one is probably good enough for now, and not worth the whole "sign this digitally now!" thing, IMO.

But do whatever makes you feel comfortable/whatever your legal counsel advises you.  Typically there's a clause in a lease that it automatically goes month-to-month at the end of the term, so you still have a valid, enforceable lease even without a signed extension.  Those things would make it "good enough" for me, personally.

Re the month to month mentioned above, there may be in your lease.  In common law, in MY state, there is a type of tenacy created when you holdover your lease, the length based on how you commonly pay your rent.  If you pay weekly, monthly, annually, that's how long your holdover lease is.  But this is not legal advice, consult your lawyer, etc....

Can he sign and pdf it to you?

hoodedfalcon

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2014, 08:43:29 AM »
Depending on your state, there may be a provision in LL/T law (or even your lease) that addresses this situation. In many states, a written lease is not required to maintain and LL/T relationship. If there is no written lease, but they live in the apt and you accept rent from them, BAM! LL/T relationship.

And as previous posters stated, many written leases convert automatically to a month to month lease.

It doesn't really sound like you have anything to worry about.

CommonCents

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2014, 09:12:28 AM »
Depending on your state, there may be a provision in LL/T law (or even your lease) that addresses this situation. In many states, a written lease is not required to maintain and LL/T relationship. If there is no written lease, but they live in the apt and you accept rent from them, BAM! LL/T relationship.

And as previous posters stated, many written leases convert automatically to a month to month lease.

It doesn't really sound like you have anything to worry about.

Please be careful - read my above note regarding holdover leases.  You do not automatically create the same lease as what you had before.  For example, for many years I had a 1-yr lease, but paid on a monthly basis.  If I stayed w/o a lease (and I did, 2.5 years after the first year), I had a holdover month-to-month tenancy, not a full year lease.  My landlord didn't bother sending me a renewal for the first 2 years, then suddenly realized I didn't have a lease and tried to get me to sign one.  At that point I didn't want to, because I knew it was likely I'd be leaving soon.  I pushed back, knowing they might decide to terminate the relationship, but figured they'd prefer to keep the tenant who is quiet, always-on-time with rent and asks for nothing but meeting the minimum state standards for heat.  They did and dropped the issue, and about six months I later gave more than the min required notice to leave.

arebelspy

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2014, 10:05:46 AM »
Yes, I'm pretty sure that agrees with what we've all said.
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Bearded Man

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2014, 11:24:16 AM »
I specifically checked the box on the lease that said that their right to occupy the property ends at the end of the lease. The other option was conversion to a month to month. I wanted to have an easy out in case they were a PITA so I checked the former rather than the latter on their first lease. I used the Washington state residential lease agreement I found online; it came highly recommended.

That said, I was kind of leaning toward what arebelspy had suggested; having her send in with her signature for now, but having him sign when he gets back.

CommonCents

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2014, 11:43:28 AM »
Yes, I'm pretty sure that agrees with what we've all said.

I was just emphasizing because I didn't want someone reading this thread to get confused by the "BAM! LL/T relationship." comment and think it meant you had the same length/type lease as before.  I'd prefer to be heavy handed and repetitive in my comments, if it avoids confusion.

Bearded Man

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2014, 11:44:02 AM »
I did a quick google search to research the issue and decided I'd be more protected by having her hold off until he returns. http://www.solid-ground.org/Tenant/Pages/RentalAgreements.aspx

If she signs it now and he refuses to sign it later, he is technically an unlawful resident of the property and I would have to evict her since she has signed a lease and would be in violation of who lives there if he keeps living there but refuses to sign it.

The law in my state says that a fixed term lease has to be in writing, but month to month can be verbal or written. As such, I will consider it a month to month residency until they submitt a lease agreement signed by both of them. If they give me the run around, I will take further action at that point, if choose to do so.

Plus, at the end of the day, I have done all of this by email on purpose. I have some form of documentation as to an agreement, and if they keep giving me the run around, it's well documented and allthough IANAL, I doubt a judge would look favorably on such a runaround considering it is documented in writing.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 11:46:52 AM by Bearded Man »

arebelspy

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2014, 11:49:49 AM »
I specifically checked the box on the lease that said that their right to occupy the property ends at the end of the lease. The other option was conversion to a month to month. I wanted to have an easy out in case they were a PITA so I checked the former rather than the latter on their first lease. I used the Washington state residential lease agreement I found online; it came highly recommended.

Oh, whoops.. in the future, let it go month-to-month.  It's the same for kicking them out, either way you have to give them 30 day notice (depending on your state law, but it should be such that month-to-month you need to give them notice per state law, and ditto with end of the lease that doesn't renew, so it's just as easy to get them out in both scenarios, IMO).

I'd go ahead and get him to sign a PDF now then.

You won't have a valid lease in a week or two.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:25:27 PM by arebelspy »
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gimp

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2014, 12:21:05 PM »
PDF signing seems the easiest solution.

I long ago scanned my signature as an image file. Any time someone emails me a pdf to sign, I just use one of those online free pdf editors to upload the pdf, paste my signature in, make it look natural, download the new pdf, and send it back. (I won't pay adobe for the version of their editor that does this offline. Neither does it run on linux, most likely.) Nobody's ever complained... it's a valid signature, it's just not done with a pen. Who cares? A signature's a signature.

innkeeper77

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 02:14:26 PM »
gimp: I would recommend that you find a local solution rather than using an online editor, mostly for security reasons.

Inkscape can edit PDF's apparently (As of 2006) and a google search turned up a few more:
PDFedit: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfedit/ (A KDE application I think)
Xournal
Master PDF Editor (Free, NOT OPEN SOURCE, non profit use only)

gimp

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Re: Tenant has not sent back lease renewal
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2014, 03:41:05 PM »
I'll look into it. I'm a bit lazy and not really worried about a third party seeing my lease agreements... but you're right.