Lease Fees Appropriate?

[therethere]

I've been in the same unit for 10 years, was MTM for the past two years but now am getting forced to sign a lease. This is a new property management company in the last 1.5 years (the last one quit and was quite sketchy). I'm surprised by the amount of moveout fees in the new lease and wondering if they are worth pushing back on. For reference, this is a large property management firm in Colorado.

The ones that stick out the most to me are the following:
- $160 upon moveout to pay for the moveout inspection (isn't this part of their job?)
- $250 fee to get moveout charges disclosed at 30 days versus 60 days (being waived by the lease) (30 days is CO law)- Edited.
- Required professional cleaning and professional carpet cleaning with receipts. (This is the first I've seen a lease require a receipt for a company for cleaning at moveout. This is a house, so I expect it could be $400+ dollars. It was not professionally cleaned prior to move-in 10 years ago.)
- 2.5x rent buyout fee for lease cancellation. This one seems high. I was planning on the standard, pay rent until the unit is occupied. Which for this area, would definitely be <2.5 months.
- Blank waiver to cover painting at lease moveout, no amount or limit provided. I'm concerned about this one. House was not painted upon move in and was years old, horrible paint job (paint on baseboards, walls chipping, etc). We actually ended up painting half the unit ourselves. What can I say to get waived of any cost of painting?

Are these all now "normal" expenses added to a lease? Seems like a lot of nickel and diming to me. Especially the fees to move-out.

[Dicey]

A lot of that would not fly in my state. I'd find out by learning exactly what your state does and does not allow.  It would be fun to discover the big, bad corporation was trying to make illegal provisions.

[Captain FIRE]

Where do you live?

Painting is general maintenance and probably can't be charged.
Same with professional cleaning, probably can't charge you for it/require receipts.
Move out fees are legit in some states
I would just ignore the moveout charges - it's offering you something you didn't have before.  You don't need to take them up on it.
Even if you sign the 2.5 buyout fee, they still have a duty to mitigate so it's possible you could fight this, but it'd be a huge hassle I imagine.

You could just refuse to sign and keep paying, see what they do. I did that once with no repercussions, but it is a risk.

Absent knowing your specific laws to cite, I would just say "Paint is a part of normal wear and tear.  Moreover, I've lived here 10 years, and the unit was not painted prior to my occupancy. It's already well past the recommended time to repaint. I'll need this provision stricken from the lease." "It is similarly expected that wear and tear on a carpet will happen over 10 years. I will leave the unit in broom swept condition as required by the state laws and regulations, however, I will not be submitted professional cleaning receipts and I will need this provision stricken from the lease before I can sign it."

[Villanelle]

I'd find out the pertinent laws and push back on those things.  Beyond that, I'd ask for some of them to be removed, but are you going to refuse to sign if they don't?  If they say you either sign or leave?  Decide how far you are willing to go, and that will guide how far and hard you should continue pushing. 

[therethere]

I'd find out the pertinent laws and push back on those things.  Beyond that, I'd ask for some of them to be removed, but are you going to refuse to sign if they don't?  If they say you either sign or leave?  Decide how far you are willing to go, and that will guide how far and hard you should continue pushing.

I don't want to leave (well I really do want to get out of this damn place but the housing market isn't quite compatible with that right now). My main concern is that this place is a dump, but the value has gone up 2-3x since we've been here purely based on the city/neighborhood. I don't want them to expect it to be up to the standards of a 550k+ house, when in reality it was dirty and non-maintained when we moved in. And has only been less maintained the last 10 years due to the last property management company. So I really want to cover my bases. Luckily I found some pretty good pictures from when we moved in regarding paint/wall condition.

I'm mainly interested in what people are actually seeing as clauses in their leases nowadays. The $160 move out inspection fee threw me for a real loop and seemed like it couldn't be true. The lease break clause was new to me also, and has bad timing because there iss a high probability we will break the lease, but I know it could be re-rented very quickly.

[Villanelle]

I'd find out the pertinent laws and push back on those things.  Beyond that, I'd ask for some of them to be removed, but are you going to refuse to sign if they don't?  If they say you either sign or leave?  Decide how far you are willing to go, and that will guide how far and hard you should continue pushing.

I don't want to leave (well I really do want to get out of this damn place but the housing market isn't quite compatible with that right now). My main concern is that this place is a dump, but the value has gone up 2-3x since we've been here purely based on the city/neighborhood. I don't want them to expect it to be up to the standards of a 550k+ house, when in reality it was dirty and non-maintained when we moved in. And has only been less maintained the last 10 years due to the last property management company. So I really want to cover my bases. Luckily I found some pretty good pictures from when we moved in regarding paint/wall condition.

I'm mainly interested in what people are actually seeing as clauses in their leases nowadays. The $160 move out inspection fee threw me for a real loop and seemed like it couldn't be true. The lease break clause was new to me also, and has bad timing because there iss a high probability we will break the lease, but I know it could be re-rented very quickly.

I can't recall the exact terms, but I do recall that my current lease has a clause for move-out that was more than just paying my rent until it is re-rented.  I suppose it is somewhat justifiable because I know that many property managers charge an additional fee for new tenants, so it may cost the LL money, beyond any vacancy, if the tenants moves out, and that's in addition to any vacancy between tenants.

[patchyfacialhair]

- $160 upon moveout: Not a chance I'd pay this. I've honestly never heard of this. Maybe the owner has to, but not you the tenant.

- $250 fee to get moveout charges: No way. No need to say more.

- Required professional cleaning and professional carpet cleaning with receipts. Do some research on CO "wear and tear" conventions and laws. You're going to be able to get this waived as long as the home is decent.

- 2.5x rent buyout fee for lease cancellation. This does seem a little high, but lease break fees are nothing new. I saw 1x-2x regularly when I'd do market research 10+ years ago. Not sure you'll be able to get this one adjusted.

- Blank waiver to cover painting at lease moveout, no amount or limit provided. This makes no sense. If you return the unit in similar condition with normal wear and tear, they shouldn't charge you anything. I'd see about getting this one waived as well.

Good luck, OP.

[Dicey]

Any updates @therethere?

[therethere]

Any updates @therethere?

I've never once been able to get the wording in a lease changed. So nope, they are not budging on anything officially. But it did at least result in an email response on all items which I'm happy with. I think the biggest to me is admitting the paint and carpets are beyond useable life and I shouldn't be charged for anything on moveout. Because we painted 50% of the place when we moved in I was able to dig up some pretty good pictures of the poor condition. I think showing them some of those helped them admit some charges wouldn't be appropriate.

At this point I'm just trying to decide if/when the housing market may go down so that we don't have to commit to a full year. But I don't have a crystal ball so it's difficult!