Popcorn ceiling removal - potential asbestos

[LearningMustachian72]

Hey,

We have popcorn ceiling all over our house.  Going to remove it all this spring.

I know it is not a difficult task but plan to hire it out.  Weary of asbestos.  Going to have multiple rooms tested but concern is it may be in a place not tested. Home was built in 1976.

My understanding is the contractor would plastic sheet up everything to ensure all debris are removed.  Any other precautions I should take?

[sonofsven]

You can have it tested.
In my area the dump/transfer station won't accept loads with drywall or related products without paperwork confirming the lack of asbestos.
It costs around $20, put a small sample in a ziplock bag and follow the instructions from the lab.

[chemistk]

I would expect a competent contractor to be aware of the risks and to mitigate accordingly.

You are concerned that one room may have it but the rest don't? If no major renovations or additions occurred in the decade or two after the house was built, I think you could pretty safely say that all the rooms would have been sprayed with the same material.

If all you're doing is having popcorn ceiling taken down, you could get enough test kits to send 4 or 5 samples to the lab (the one I used had materials for two samples). Take them from different rooms that would cover any possible renovations that could have happened.

If everything comes back negative, you're going to do no more than the contractors would. They might give you the option to have a full hazmat removal, but that's probably unnecessary. But I'll then circle back to my first point - they (the contractors) are completely responsible for the site prep. This includes taping off all doors, windows, vents, and openings to the room as well as creating a negative pressure environment with appropriate filtering equipment.

If your plan is to go with a local handyman who does not specialize in asbestos removal, you should reconsider if you have concerns that it's there somewhere. You and they won't have the right tools to do the job correctly. But if the test results come back as negative, that shouldn't be anything you should be worried about.

[cupcakes4all]

I could go on endlessly about asbestos... purchased a house in SF that was flipped by shady contractors and they buried the asbestos popcorn celling in the backyard in black bags under mulch. We were ablet to get some money back from the sellers to cover the cost of that removal but we did end up spending more dealing with issues inside the house.

There are several relatively cheap tests you can do yourself and send the sample off to the lab. We had good experience with various labs. Then we hired asbestos abatement specific contractors for work removing drywall and cleaning air vents. In my experience, most general contractors did not seem to mind working with asbestos and took little, to no precautions. Since we had two young kids in the house and my DH is very cautious we felt the need to go with the abatement company and it honestly wasn't that expensive. They removed ~500sq ft of drywall over 2 days for ~$1200 a few years ago. We also paid for air testing which was unnecessary imo ($800!).

It probably comes down to your risk tolerance, living & project situation, and budget. THere are plenty of resources online about how to deal with it if your up for the messy job.

[Telecaster]

If you test four or five locations that should be plenty to determine if there is asbestos or not.  You will need a licensed asbestos contractor and I'm about 99% certain they will require that the samples be collected by a licensed inspector (there might be an exception because you are the homeowner but I don't think so).   You can still and should sample it, but be aware that might not be the end of the sampling. 

But besides removal, another option is encapsulation, which consists of installing 5/8" sheetrock over the popcorn.  One of the purposes of popcorn is to hide shitty dry wall jobs.   So the ceilings might not look great when you remove the popcorn.   Just something to be aware of. 

[jnw]

I know of this one women who scraped her entire popcorn ceiling so it was smooth.  I think that was a very bad idea.  If it was my place I probably would of cut out the dry wall and put new stuff up.. seems less risk of getting carcinogen.   But I don't know anything about asbestos or ceiling repair.. just that it isn't safe to disturb asbestos... and I can't think of any worse way then scraping it all off.  So I just wanted to share my 2 cents.  Maybe her popcorn ceiling was made with asbestos.  Not sure.. just seemed like a very bad idea.

[PDXTabs]

If it tests negative you can seal it like this:
https://woodshms.com/wp/painting-popcorn-ceilings/

But if it is original from 1976 it will probably test positive.

[Sibley]

Don't bother testing it. Just get the proper mask for asbestos and scrape the ceiling. Though try spraying it with water, sometimes it basically falls off.

It doesn't matter if its asbestos or not. You don't want it in your lungs. Since you're going to wear the respirator or whatever, and have to seal as much as possible to contain the mess and then clean up the mess, just assume its asbestos and take the precautions and spend the money you would have spent on testing on buying the mask. Doubt they're cheap.

And it WILL make a mess. Even if you remove the existing ceiling, it would make a mess. Even if you put up new drywall, it would make a mess. A mess is unavoidable. So, you focus on containing the mess and wearing the proper mask so you don't breath it in. Then you clean up the mess. Vacuum what you can, wet dust the rest. Don't forget to seal air vents to help contain it.

Asbestos isn't good for you, no. But unless you have daily, long term exposure, you're probably fine. You'll be even more fine if you wear a mask to protect your lungs (which you can bet the vast majority of construction workers didn't/don't).

Lead is similar. Everyone panics, but common sense and basic precautions will go a very long way.

[Telecaster]

I've removed popcorn ceilings in my own house and it isn't hard.  But if you are going that route you absolutely should wet it first.  Water causes the asbestos fibers to curl which makes them much less hazardous.  The pros use a tiny, tiny bit of Elmer's glue in the water spray.  You should also wear Tyvek (cheap) and such that you can dispose of your outergear and not carry fibers around with you.

[LearningMustachian72]

Hey all,

Thanks so much for the tips.  I am having an asbestos abatement company come out next week and I guess they treat it the same whether it’s asbestos or not.  I could likely have this done a little cheaper but it’s not a grand expense and would prefer to be on the safe side.

[Morning Glory]

Have you considered just painting them instead of removing? Ive done it in two different houses. You have to press pretty hard with the roller and it takes a couple of coats,, but it's much easier than all that scraping,, and you don't need to worry about asbestos if it's contained. 

They look much cleaner and less popcorn-y after a coat of paint,  although not completely smooth of course. 

[PDXTabs]

Have you considered just painting them instead of removing? Ive done it in two different houses. You have to press pretty hard with the roller and it takes a couple of coats,, but it's much easier than all that scraping,, and you don't need to worry about asbestos if it's contained. 

They look much cleaner and less popcorn-y after a coat of paint,  although not completely smooth of course.

Yea, my mom did hers, they look great. I posted a link above about it but have never personally done it.

[jnw]

Have you considered just painting them instead of removing? Ive done it in two different houses. You have to press pretty hard with the roller and it takes a couple of coats,, but it's much easier than all that scraping,, and you don't need to worry about asbestos if it's contained. 

They look much cleaner and less popcorn-y after a coat of paint,  although not completely smooth of course.

The previous owner in this 1970 home, painted the popcorn celing and it looks great.  I love the look of the popcorn ceiling myself.

[affordablehousing]

Agree to disagree. drywall texture, in all forms in my mind, is the scourge of the 21st century. It represents in my mind the wonderbread of building technique- the grossest, sloppiest, crummiest degradation of the fine plastering skills that were more common until the 1960's. Sorry to be a snob here but drywall texture of all forms just makes me think of grandparents chainsmoking in barca loungers, encrusting their whole house with tar, grime and spiders.

We got to watch a crew of experienced drywall finishers make baby butt smooth level 5 on most of our house and it was a beautiful wonder to behold. It is a challenge to maintain, but it did make me feel like a return to the artisans of yore taking pleasure in a perfectly done job with practiced technique that couldn't be sprayed out of a can or imitated from youtube without years of practice.

Don't back down OP, get rid of that texture. I promise it's horrible!

[nereo]

Agree to disagree. drywall texture, in all forms in my mind, is the scourge of the 21st century. It represents in my mind the wonderbread of building technique- the grossest, sloppiest, crummiest degradation of the fine plastering skills that were more common until the 1960's. Sorry to be a snob here but drywall texture of all forms just makes me think of grandparents chainsmoking in barca loungers, encrusting their whole house with tar, grime and spiders.

We got to watch a crew of experienced drywall finishers make baby butt smooth level 5 on most of our house and it was a beautiful wonder to behold. It is a challenge to maintain, but it did make me feel like a return to the artisans of yore taking pleasure in a perfectly done job with practiced technique that couldn't be sprayed out of a can or imitated from youtube without years of practice.

Don't back down OP, get rid of that texture. I promise it's horrible!

As long as we never go back to lathe and plaster.  God how I hate that stuff…

I disagree that it takes “years of practice” to get an acceptably blemish-free drywall finish, but I’d reckon you and I have different levels of what is “good enough”.  To me, if you ask five people to stand 5 feet from a wall and ask “where are the seams” and 4 can’t tell you, that’s a pretty fine job.  But I know people who will shine a flashlight in a darkened room along the length of a wall to highlight every imperfection and this is their test of acceptable finish. 

To each their own. Personally I’ve got other areas in my life that I’d like to improve before I fret over nearly-invisible drywall seams.  ::shrug::

[Morning Glory]

Agree to disagree. drywall texture, in all forms in my mind, is the scourge of the 21st century. It represents in my mind the wonderbread of building technique- the grossest, sloppiest, crummiest degradation of the fine plastering skills that were more common until the 1960's. Sorry to be a snob here but drywall texture of all forms just makes me think of grandparents chainsmoking in barca loungers, encrusting their whole house with tar, grime and spiders.

We got to watch a crew of experienced drywall finishers make baby butt smooth level 5 on most of our house and it was a beautiful wonder to behold. It is a challenge to maintain, but it did make me feel like a return to the artisans of yore taking pleasure in a perfectly done job with practiced technique that couldn't be sprayed out of a can or imitated from youtube without years of practice.

Don't back down OP, get rid of that texture. I promise it's horrible!

Ok but at what point does the cost outweigh the benefits? To me hiring a company to get baby smooth ceilings is no different than say replacing the kitchen cabinets instead of painting them. Totally unnecessary and expensive,  but worth it sometimes if it's really bothering you, provided that you will live in the house a long time.

[LearningMustachian72]

Yeah, I am not a textured ceiling person either but obviously to each their own.

When I get the quote next week, I will report back in case anyone is curious.

[jnw]

The way the guy painted the popcorn ceiling made it look great in here.  It's so gorgeous. It's a yellow like the non-textured walls, and has white crown moulding between the ceiling and walls, along with matching door frames and mop boards.  I absolutely love it.

[jnw]

Here is a photo of my popcorn ceiling and non-textured walls, with crown moulding.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1CWOiVNRLAKcDH5yjaC8KJdabY0FyWbBn

[Model96]

Here in Australia you can have the popcorn ceiling plastered in with a special lightweight plaster that makes it smooth.
Saves a lot of mess and money and time, avoids liberating asbestos dust, and maintains the high fire protection rating of the ceiling. Might be available where you are!
https://ceilingresurfacing.com.au/

[affordablehousing]

Look I know I'm nuts about this. Much of our house isn't that smooth, but the rooms that are... I just really appreciate how that looks. Clearly texture has an enduring place in the industry, I just don't like it, along with "hand"-scraped floors, gloss polyurethane, vinyl window grids, doors with inset designed glass, chrome railings, cool temperature light bulbs, knotty alder, and a host of other things many folks probably enjoy. So be it, but when someone asks the question I'll be there evangelizing.

[nereo]

Look I know I'm nuts about this. Much of our house isn't that smooth, but the rooms that are... I just really appreciate how that looks. Clearly texture has an enduring place in the industry, I just don't like it, along with "hand"-scraped floors, gloss polyurethane, vinyl window grids, doors with inset designed glass, chrome railings, cool temperature light bulbs, knotty alder, and a host of other things many folks probably enjoy. So be it, but when someone asks the question I'll be there evangelizing.

I’m really not trying to bust your chops.  FOr the record I think we’re likely to agree with most of these design elements (i absolutely hate vinyl window grids, and actually all things skeuomorphic in architecture). I hate textured ceilings too and agree that they’re usually just a crutch for crappy workmanship.  I guess my main point above can be summed up as: “don’t let perfect be the enemy of good (or done)”. 

[Sibley]

Oh, I prefer smooth as well. I don't have true popcorn ceilings, just textured plaster. However, I'm way to cheap to hire someone to remove popcorn, it's very DIY-able (even with all the precautions).

[LearningMustachian72]

Hi all,

I had someone come out, they took 3 samples and all were negative for asbestos.

The estimate to do roughly 2,000 sq/ft in my house was $9,800!

That being said, I’m just going to tackle this myself but still take all the precautions as if it were asbestos just to be safe (remove all furniture, tape plastic over walls/floor/vents and wear a heavy duty mask).  I also read something about creating negative pressure, any idea how this is done?

[Papa bear]

My dad did this on a 2000sf house in his 70’s.  Should be doable for most anyone. Wet the ceiling down with a pump sprayer and scrape it off with a drywall knife. 

Negative pressure - stick a box fan in a window and have it blow outside.   


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[Sibley]

Yeah, I'm not surprised at that quote. Good luck, it's going to be a pain.

[affordablehousing]

If you think there's asbestos, make sure you get a p100 filter with a full face respirator, make sure you shave to make a good seal, and have your neg pressure outfit provide hepa filtration as well. Your mask will run at least $150 and a neg pressure blower and filter about $200 to rent for a day. You ought to be able to do this for $500 including plastic sheeting, tape, tyvek suits, drywall knives, mud for patching, pole sander, primer, paint, roller covers, drop cloths.