Author Topic: Month to month or 1 year lease?  (Read 692 times)

ClimateMind

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Month to month or 1 year lease?
« on: March 12, 2025, 10:41:59 AM »
Hey all,

About two years ago I posted about whether I should rent the condo I inherited from my mom, or sell it.

(https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/sell-or-rent-the-condo-i-inherited/msg3170252/#msg3170252)

Well, update: I decided to rent it out, and overall it's been going quite well. I rent it for 0.5% of its estimated value (before expenses), per month, and after expenses I net $2100 per month (before taxes).

I have great tenants, lease renews in June. They love it there and... They want to stay, but are also thinking of buying a house sometime in the next year.

My question, which is very basic landlord 101 one, but a new one for me, is whether I should let them switch to month-to-month or keep them on a 1 year lease. The nice part of me wants to let them do month-to-month, but I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake. Or should I offer to keep the rent the same for a 1 year lease, or raise it for month-to-month? (I raised the rent by $100 after the first year and was thinking of keeping it the same for the next year). Let me know if you have any thoughts about what I should consider, and what I might be missing. Thanks!

aloevera1

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2025, 11:55:34 AM »
I don't think the term of the lease will influence their mind regarding the house purchase. If they find the right house, they will move regardless whether they have 1 year or month to month lease.

The question is - what kind of notice you are expecting? How would you want to protect yourself in case they do need to move? Etc. Do you even care if they move some time during the year?

lhamo

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2025, 12:14:22 PM »
You have probably seen these websites already, but just in case:

https://www.seattle.gov/rentinginseattle/housing-providers/managing-the-rental-relationship/housing-cost-increases

(Increasing the rent now requires 180 day notice)

https://www.seattle.gov/rentinginseattle/housing-providers/moving-a-tenant-out

https://www.seattle.gov/rentinginseattle/housing-providers/moving-a-tenant-out/economic-displacement-relocation-assistance

(if you increase the rent more than 10% and the tenants are at 80% or below median income, you have to pay relocation assistance if they decide to move)

Glad I am not a landlord in Seattle....

Archipelago

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2025, 01:33:38 PM »
Small scale landlord here, own and operate 8 rental units remotely. We have a candid conversation with any tenants up front that we issue lease terms, but they aren't hard and fast. Sometimes life happens and people need to move out abruptly. I tell tenants if that's the case to notify me as soon as they know or as much advanced notice as possible, and we will make reasonable effort to get the unit rented to the next tenants without charging lease break fees or forcing people to stay out a lease term in a situation they're unhappy with. It also means the residents need to be reasonably acommodating when it comes to showings, allowing access and being generally helpful so the place can get rented again.

That's the way we handle it. Just have an open conversation, keeping everything reasonable and transparent. Brief phone call: 'Hey John, how's your house search going? *shoot the breeze about the local RE market*. I know it's a tight market out there and sometimes you need to move quickly. If you need to break your lease or move out for any reason, let me know as soon as you can, and we will work together to get a plan in place.'

Here's a recent real example:
Tenant of 3 years wrote to me on 12/17/24 saying they have a house under contract and wish to move out on 1/31/25. Their lease doesn't end until July 2025. They say they expect to close and be moved out by January 31st. I congratulate them and ask if they have anyone to refer who might want to fill their vacancy. They answer back no, so I tell them I'm going to start advertising. I list the apartment the next day. A week goes by with 100+ inquiries and 20+ applications. I have it narrowed down to 3 applicants that are all qualified (I conduct the pre-qualifications remotely). I give the 3 applicants each a phone call, introduce myself, talk about the unit and allow them to ask any questions. I give them the phone number of current resident to allow them to share their living experience at the unit (with permission of course).

I gather showing times and notify the current residents when the showings will be. I either conduct the showings remotely or have the applicants coordinate directly with the current residents, allowing the residents to do the showing for me. Again, these applicants are not random strangers. They are all vetted people that pass qualifications and I have spoken to personally.

New residents are happy & willing to help, and they also speak highly about the apartment. New resident is chosen. Lease is signed remotely beginning February 1st, lease break document is signed remotely, let current & new residents coordinate which furniture they want to leave behind. New residents move in. No cleaning needed in between since prior residents do a good job cleaning after moving out. New residents make a list of small repairs. I fix them a couple weeks later when I'm in the area.

Everyone is happy. No lease break fees. No stressful timelines. Just people being reasonable and working together. That's really all it comes down to.

Another thing we do is offer referral credits for residents that refer another qualified tenant to us. This is often how we lease apartments without ever bringing them to market. Good residents naturally tend to bring in more/other good residents.

Obviously for all of this to work you need to have good relationships with your tenants. That's why landlording is a people business.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 01:39:00 PM by Archipelago »

Paper Chaser

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2025, 08:48:21 AM »
I hope to be house hunting soon, and just renewed my lease. My options were a small rent increase for renewing the annual lease, or current rent plus $250/mo for month-to-month flexibility. I chose to go with the full lease because I expect our house search to take awhile (we are picky), and we can pay to break the lease early if we really need to.

franklin4

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2025, 09:38:08 AM »
Since it appears the rental is in Seattle, you should be aware that it is against the rules to charge differing monthly rent for a term lease vs month-to-month. There is no advantage for you to have a tenant on a month-to-month lease in Seattle. Zero. Laws require you to renew term leases unless you can document that the tenant has been horrible and even then getting them out could be a legal battle. Finding new tenants in the winter months is tough and a turnover at that time of year likely means extended vacancy and/or reduced rent. And with rent control currently on its likely way to passage in the legislature, from a business perspective you should be doing all you can to keep rents high. Property taxes are shooting up and that's likely to continue, and all your other expenses are probably climbing too. Yes, it's challenging to be a landlord in Seattle but if you have nice units in desirable areas, screen tenants thoroughly and keep them happy, it can be lucrative. Best of luck!

ClimateMind

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2025, 09:02:06 AM »
I don't think the term of the lease will influence their mind regarding the house purchase. If they find the right house, they will move regardless whether they have 1 year or month to month lease.

The question is - what kind of notice you are expecting? How would you want to protect yourself in case they do need to move? Etc. Do you even care if they move some time during the year?

Thanks for that input. I'm going to try, in the style described by Archipelago, to just keep in touch with them throughout the year and get the most notice possible as to when they are 'on the market' so I can prep for finding new tenants. I'm fairly confident that in my market (assuming we don't have a major recession) it will not be difficult to find new tenants quickly.

Also, my hope is to make them as happy as possible because they are great tenants and they like it there. I figure that could make them less likely to want to buy a house soon.   

ClimateMind

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2025, 09:04:20 AM »
You have probably seen these websites already, but just in case:

https://www.seattle.gov/rentinginseattle/housing-providers/managing-the-rental-relationship/housing-cost-increases

(Increasing the rent now requires 180 day notice)

https://www.seattle.gov/rentinginseattle/housing-providers/moving-a-tenant-out

https://www.seattle.gov/rentinginseattle/housing-providers/moving-a-tenant-out/economic-displacement-relocation-assistance

(if you increase the rent more than 10% and the tenants are at 80% or below median income, you have to pay relocation assistance if they decide to move)

Glad I am not a landlord in Seattle....

Yes, thank you for the reminder. I actually forgot about the 180 day rule! (that's how much of a noob I am) Fortunately I wasn't planning on raising the rent this year as it's already pretty high and I want to keep them there.

ClimateMind

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2025, 09:08:36 AM »
Small scale landlord here, own and operate 8 rental units remotely. We have a candid conversation with any tenants up front that we issue lease terms, but they aren't hard and fast. Sometimes life happens and people need to move out abruptly. I tell tenants if that's the case to notify me as soon as they know or as much advanced notice as possible, and we will make reasonable effort to get the unit rented to the next tenants without charging lease break fees or forcing people to stay out a lease term in a situation they're unhappy with. It also means the residents need to be reasonably acommodating when it comes to showings, allowing access and being generally helpful so the place can get rented again.

That's the way we handle it. Just have an open conversation, keeping everything reasonable and transparent. Brief phone call: 'Hey John, how's your house search going? *shoot the breeze about the local RE market*. I know it's a tight market out there and sometimes you need to move quickly. If you need to break your lease or move out for any reason, let me know as soon as you can, and we will work together to get a plan in place.'

Here's a recent real example:
Tenant of 3 years wrote to me on 12/17/24 saying they have a house under contract and wish to move out on 1/31/25. Their lease doesn't end until July 2025. They say they expect to close and be moved out by January 31st. I congratulate them and ask if they have anyone to refer who might want to fill their vacancy. They answer back no, so I tell them I'm going to start advertising. I list the apartment the next day. A week goes by with 100+ inquiries and 20+ applications. I have it narrowed down to 3 applicants that are all qualified (I conduct the pre-qualifications remotely). I give the 3 applicants each a phone call, introduce myself, talk about the unit and allow them to ask any questions. I give them the phone number of current resident to allow them to share their living experience at the unit (with permission of course).

I gather showing times and notify the current residents when the showings will be. I either conduct the showings remotely or have the applicants coordinate directly with the current residents, allowing the residents to do the showing for me. Again, these applicants are not random strangers. They are all vetted people that pass qualifications and I have spoken to personally.

New residents are happy & willing to help, and they also speak highly about the apartment. New resident is chosen. Lease is signed remotely beginning February 1st, lease break document is signed remotely, let current & new residents coordinate which furniture they want to leave behind. New residents move in. No cleaning needed in between since prior residents do a good job cleaning after moving out. New residents make a list of small repairs. I fix them a couple weeks later when I'm in the area.

Everyone is happy. No lease break fees. No stressful timelines. Just people being reasonable and working together. That's really all it comes down to.

Another thing we do is offer referral credits for residents that refer another qualified tenant to us. This is often how we lease apartments without ever bringing them to market. Good residents naturally tend to bring in more/other good residents.

Obviously for all of this to work you need to have good relationships with your tenants. That's why landlording is a people business.

Thanks for this thorough and very human/humane summary of your style. That fits with my goal, and I appreciate seeing it laid out like that since this will be the first time I go through a tenant turnover (hopefully not soon, but possibly).

One question for you - In your example they are on a lease (not month to month) so I just wanted to ask if you are implicitly recommending that we renew a 1 year lease and then just be very cooperative and collaborative in the breaking of the lease, when the time comes. Is that in my best interests as a landlord?

ClimateMind

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2025, 09:16:14 AM »
Since it appears the rental is in Seattle, you should be aware that it is against the rules to charge differing monthly rent for a term lease vs month-to-month. There is no advantage for you to have a tenant on a month-to-month lease in Seattle. Zero. Laws require you to renew term leases unless you can document that the tenant has been horrible and even then getting them out could be a legal battle. Finding new tenants in the winter months is tough and a turnover at that time of year likely means extended vacancy and/or reduced rent. And with rent control currently on its likely way to passage in the legislature, from a business perspective you should be doing all you can to keep rents high. Property taxes are shooting up and that's likely to continue, and all your other expenses are probably climbing too. Yes, it's challenging to be a landlord in Seattle but if you have nice units in desirable areas, screen tenants thoroughly and keep them happy, it can be lucrative. Best of luck!

Thanks for the reminder about the law against offering different rents based on lease. I'll keep that in mind about the lease. About rent control, are you referring to HB 2114, that is the 7%/year cap?

So far it has NOT been challenging to be a landlord in Seattle and I feel continually lucky that there are people with high enough incomes to make it worth renting this unit. But I recognize that I'm just one difficult tenant away from learning how challenging it is to be a landlord here!

Archipelago

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2025, 09:40:44 AM »
Small scale landlord here, own and operate 8 rental units remotely. We have a candid conversation with any tenants up front that we issue lease terms, but they aren't hard and fast. Sometimes life happens and people need to move out abruptly. I tell tenants if that's the case to notify me as soon as they know or as much advanced notice as possible, and we will make reasonable effort to get the unit rented to the next tenants without charging lease break fees or forcing people to stay out a lease term in a situation they're unhappy with. It also means the residents need to be reasonably acommodating when it comes to showings, allowing access and being generally helpful so the place can get rented again.

That's the way we handle it. Just have an open conversation, keeping everything reasonable and transparent. Brief phone call: 'Hey John, how's your house search going? *shoot the breeze about the local RE market*. I know it's a tight market out there and sometimes you need to move quickly. If you need to break your lease or move out for any reason, let me know as soon as you can, and we will work together to get a plan in place.'

Here's a recent real example:
Tenant of 3 years wrote to me on 12/17/24 saying they have a house under contract and wish to move out on 1/31/25. Their lease doesn't end until July 2025. They say they expect to close and be moved out by January 31st. I congratulate them and ask if they have anyone to refer who might want to fill their vacancy. They answer back no, so I tell them I'm going to start advertising. I list the apartment the next day. A week goes by with 100+ inquiries and 20+ applications. I have it narrowed down to 3 applicants that are all qualified (I conduct the pre-qualifications remotely). I give the 3 applicants each a phone call, introduce myself, talk about the unit and allow them to ask any questions. I give them the phone number of current resident to allow them to share their living experience at the unit (with permission of course).

I gather showing times and notify the current residents when the showings will be. I either conduct the showings remotely or have the applicants coordinate directly with the current residents, allowing the residents to do the showing for me. Again, these applicants are not random strangers. They are all vetted people that pass qualifications and I have spoken to personally.

New residents are happy & willing to help, and they also speak highly about the apartment. New resident is chosen. Lease is signed remotely beginning February 1st, lease break document is signed remotely, let current & new residents coordinate which furniture they want to leave behind. New residents move in. No cleaning needed in between since prior residents do a good job cleaning after moving out. New residents make a list of small repairs. I fix them a couple weeks later when I'm in the area.

Everyone is happy. No lease break fees. No stressful timelines. Just people being reasonable and working together. That's really all it comes down to.

Another thing we do is offer referral credits for residents that refer another qualified tenant to us. This is often how we lease apartments without ever bringing them to market. Good residents naturally tend to bring in more/other good residents.

Obviously for all of this to work you need to have good relationships with your tenants. That's why landlording is a people business.

Thanks for this thorough and very human/humane summary of your style. That fits with my goal, and I appreciate seeing it laid out like that since this will be the first time I go through a tenant turnover (hopefully not soon, but possibly).

One question for you - In your example they are on a lease (not month to month) so I just wanted to ask if you are implicitly recommending that we renew a 1 year lease and then just be very cooperative and collaborative in the breaking of the lease, when the time comes. Is that in my best interests as a landlord?

Sure, why not. It's not hard to find new tenants if your screening is tight. If you give them a chance, they could even refer a qualified replacement tenant without bringing it to market.

This seems like a better alternative than a tenant vacating regardless of lease terms, not paying anymore, then having to start up litigation and chase people down for money. It's just not worth it. Corporate landlords that operate hundreds or thousands of units can afford to do this because it's a cost of doing business and they have teams of lawyers to enforce tight processes. For small time landlords like us though, it's not like that.

I've found the easiest and least headachy way of operating a landlording business is to delegate, give agency and create win-win-win situations.

Dicey

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2025, 04:22:26 PM »
We're landlords and we frequently go this route after the initial lease expires. We have a couple of reasons for doing this. The primary one is the HOA. For some inane reason, it automatically blocks gate access the very next day after a lease term ends. We get around this by informing the HOA that the tenant's lease is month-to-month and they don't shut off gate access unless or until we inform them of a change. Sheer idiocy that is a PITA for the tenant and for us. It took me forever to figure out that month-to-month stops this insanity. The HOA never volunteered this info.

The second is that our rentals are in a Senior Community. Our tenants tend to be long-term renters. They typically want a 2-3 year lease up front, which we readily oblige. Once they complete a term happily, they are likely to stay for life, which is just fine with us. We always let them go month to month if that's their preference.

Tl;Dr - Month-to-month after a lease is completed has always worked well for us.

clarkfan1979

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2025, 05:26:30 PM »
How hard would it be to rent the unit in the winter? I have two college rentals. The annual lease is August 1st to July 31st. I don't offer month to month leases after the one year because the rental needs to follow the academic calendar. For my rental in Hawaii, it's a 6 month lease and then month to month. It rents in the winter no problem.

I had a tenant break a lease after staying for 3 months to buy a house. They claimed that they planned on staying for 6 months, but couldn't pass up their perfect house, which makes sense to me. They told me they would forfeit their deposit and pay for any vacancy. I kept their $4000 deposit and they paid for 5 days of vacancy. It was a win-win. 

franklin4

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Re: Month to month or 1 year lease?
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2025, 07:23:35 PM »
Since it appears the rental is in Seattle, you should be aware that it is against the rules to charge differing monthly rent for a term lease vs month-to-month. There is no advantage for you to have a tenant on a month-to-month lease in Seattle. Zero. Laws require you to renew term leases unless you can document that the tenant has been horrible and even then getting them out could be a legal battle. Finding new tenants in the winter months is tough and a turnover at that time of year likely means extended vacancy and/or reduced rent. And with rent control currently on its likely way to passage in the legislature, from a business perspective you should be doing all you can to keep rents high. Property taxes are shooting up and that's likely to continue, and all your other expenses are probably climbing too. Yes, it's challenging to be a landlord in Seattle but if you have nice units in desirable areas, screen tenants thoroughly and keep them happy, it can be lucrative. Best of luck!

Thanks for the reminder about the law against offering different rents based on lease. I'll keep that in mind about the lease. About rent control, are you referring to HB 2114, that is the 7%/year cap?

So far it has NOT been challenging to be a landlord in Seattle and I feel continually lucky that there are people with high enough incomes to make it worth renting this unit. But I recognize that I'm just one difficult tenant away from learning how challenging it is to be a landlord here!

That's probably the bill but I don't know the number. 7% isn't so bad but I believe the bill has language that would allow cities to impose a lower increase. If that becomes law I'd bet money the allowable increase in Seattle will be lower than 7% in a few years.

Much of the challenge is keeping track of the changing laws and knowing all the things you are required to do, just in case someone gets upset and tries to cause trouble.