Author Topic: Inspection contingency suggestions  (Read 7023 times)

lhamo

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2021, 09:01:59 AM »
I know you are frustrated with this search, but I'm going to offer some advice from hard-earned experience:

There will be other houses.

As I have mentioned before, we bought in a hurry in 2017 during a comparably sizzling hot market.  We felt artificial pressure because we were nearing the end of our rental lease (though our landlord was willing to go month to month - something we should have done!  The first house we considered buying went for nearly 200k over list with multiple offers (we would not have paid what it sold for) and we pulled out of another offer because the seller wanted us to pay our agent's fees (nearly $35k on what we felt was already an overpriced house).  We were the first and only offer on this house because our agent got us a viewing before it even listed. We ended up paying $50k over what they were planning to list for because we wanted to avoid a bidding war. We paid too much.   The house has had multiple issues.  In hindsight we would have been  much better off waiting for a different house. 

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2021, 10:04:26 AM »
I know you are frustrated with this search, but I'm going to offer some advice from hard-earned experience:

There will be other houses.

As I have mentioned before, we bought in a hurry in 2017 during a comparably sizzling hot market.  We felt artificial pressure because we were nearing the end of our rental lease (though our landlord was willing to go month to month - something we should have done!  The first house we considered buying went for nearly 200k over list with multiple offers (we would not have paid what it sold for) and we pulled out of another offer because the seller wanted us to pay our agent's fees (nearly $35k on what we felt was already an overpriced house).  We were the first and only offer on this house because our agent got us a viewing before it even listed. We ended up paying $50k over what they were planning to list for because we wanted to avoid a bidding war. We paid too much.   The house has had multiple issues.  In hindsight we would have been  much better off waiting for a different house.

Based on what we've discovered so far, this home is pretty solid. Stucco exterior so not prone to as much termite damage (they found swarmers in the attic and some in the garage, which is unavoidable since there are vents in the attic and the garage isn't 100% sealed off and or the owners possibly just left the garage door open very often). The issue with the gas supply line is not something that's surprising but it doesn't have anything to do with the "bones" of the house. And the issue with the water/mold in the front wall is, again, something that has more to do with the negligence of the owner not realizing that *maybe* it's a bad idea running irrigation on a regular schedule with the sprinklers being literally right up against the wall of the home.
We still very much like this home, the location, the general condition it's in. I think what we're just trying to accomplish at this point is closing the deal and having the sellers cover most if not all of these issues.

This is the immediate area, in question, that we are awaiting for regarding the mold:


Things like valve changes, GFIs, missing damper clamps, missing anti-tip device for oven, etc - those are things we're willing to overlook and take care of/cover ourselves. The bigger issues at hand are what we'd want the sellers to pay for: termites (which they said they would), gas leak issue (they're having a plumber come out today to mitigate), sewer line offset (at least splitting the cost of this since it's not directly their fault or they have little control over it), and whatever comes out of this issue with the area that's wet in the living room. I think the most major of these issues and areas of concern right now is the wet wall and potential mold. All other issues don't seem to be that big of a deal when you step back and look at them, in comparison to other homes.

We know with this one, HVAC will eventually need to be replaced and the place may need a repipe too. But I feel like those are just factored into the overall maintenance costs of owning a home for so many years. This is an older home (1980) too so it's not going to be perfect. I'd say they've kept it in pretty good shape overall considering the age.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 10:16:37 AM by jeromedawg »

iluvzbeach

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2021, 10:51:22 AM »
@jeromedog, it sounds like you’ve got a good mindset on this one. Just based on what you’ve shared, there hasn’t been anything that (to me) screams “run away from this deal.” That felt like the case with the last house, but everything on this one seems like it can be remediated. Home ownership always has stuff that has to be done, as you know all too well.

Fingers crossed that you can get this one over the finish line.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2021, 11:03:01 AM »
@jeromedog, it sounds like you’ve got a good mindset on this one. Just based on what you’ve shared, there hasn’t been anything that (to me) screams “run away from this deal.” That felt like the case with the last house, but everything on this one seems like it can be remediated. Home ownership always has stuff that has to be done, as you know all too well.

Fingers crossed that you can get this one over the finish line.

The only 'concerning' thing is that the sellers/agent seemed to be writing off "wet/high moisture wall" as a real issue and that it only *really* matters if there's mold found (which I'm expecting there will be). The only way the wall would be wet without mold is if this were a very fresh or recent leak, which it is not. The inside of that wall has probably been damp for years with the irrigation running like that.

former player

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2021, 11:26:28 AM »
Damp of unknown causes is a concern.  Damp of known and easily remedied causes is not.  If there is mold (and the work done may have already remedied it) then once the damp has gone the mold can be remedied without any concern that it will come back.

I don't know your part of the world but I like the look of this house, it has the inside space you need, while the outside space is not large the open land around it on two sides mitigates that, and the condition issues it has seem relatively minor in the context of the price and overall value to you and your family.  I'm crossing my fingers that this one works out for you.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2021, 11:42:47 AM »
Damp of unknown causes is a concern.  Damp of known and easily remedied causes is not.  If there is mold (and the work done may have already remedied it) then once the damp has gone the mold can be remedied without any concern that it will come back.

I don't know your part of the world but I like the look of this house, it has the inside space you need, while the outside space is not large the open land around it on two sides mitigates that, and the condition issues it has seem relatively minor in the context of the price and overall value to you and your family.  I'm crossing my fingers that this one works out for you.

We are 99.99999% sure that the combination of soil/mulch being too close to the weep screed and the owners running irrigation consistently on a schedule is the cause of the damp walls. We have requested that the sellers turn off their irrigation for the time being but it's unknown whether or not they have done this. Seems like a pretty simple ask but you never know...

This is in Southern California btw. NOTE: the land on the outside of the yard/lot boundary is owned by the city. So it's not as though we can use that space ;)

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2021, 01:21:02 PM »
More fun: I contacted a couple remediation companies just to see what would be entailed for the mold/moisture remediation and availability. Both companies I spoke with said in order to go any further, they'd need to get an asbestos test done - if it's negative they would proceed with the mitigation. But if it's positive, we'd then have to involve a contractor who specializes in asbestos abatement to remove the drywall containing asbestos (this is to ensure it is properly handled without spreading it around the house and contaminating everything - if there's contamination it turns into this whole ordeal where they have to get rid of furniture, probably carpet, the dishwasher, the fridge, etc)
 
I mentioned this earlier I think but the current owners had water damage work done last April (2020) and it was done by one of the companies I contacted. They told me that the standards changed so last year when they did it, so anything built before 1980 didn't need asbestos testing prior. Since then, the rules have changed and now it's anything prior to 1987 you're required to have asbestos testing. The second company I called said BS and that you absolutely have to check for asbestos on any home built prior to 87 (or 87 and prior.. don't recall but it doesn't matter since this home was built in 80), and that the rules have been this way for a LONG time. So the company that did the work for the owners was either lying or the woman I spoke with on the phone was unfamiliar with that invoice and didn't know what she was talking about.
Or perhaps they did in fact refer an asbestos testing company and the owner did this - we're going to be asking for an asbestos report for the work that was done in either case. If they did do one and it was clear, I think we'll be good to proceed without worrying about all this. However, if they didn't we'll have to do one in order to get any further...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 01:44:31 PM by jeromedawg »

cchrissyy

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2021, 01:22:15 PM »
I don't understand what is wrong with people who won't be honest up front about these things. The market is hot and it will sell anyway! The shouldn't need to worry about a future lawsuit for failing to disclose. Just play fair from the start and tell everything and let's all move on!

I'm glad you are not scared off from the house. I still think it's the best one you've considered and you should close on it.  But if anything crazy happens it's true there are always other houses.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 01:24:14 PM by cchrissyy »

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2021, 01:54:24 PM »
I don't understand what is wrong with people who won't be honest up front about these things. The market is hot and it will sell anyway! The shouldn't need to worry about a future lawsuit for failing to disclose. Just play fair from the start and tell everything and let's all move on!

I'm glad you are not scared off from the house. I still think it's the best one you've considered and you should close on it.  But if anything crazy happens it's true there are always other houses.

Yea, I think at this point we're just building our case for negotiations. But I don't know how it's all going to go down either. Our realtor doesn't want us or him to rush to conclusion and call things out AS they are happening and being observed simply because he doesn't want to jump the gun and sour the deal or put extra stress on the sellers. So far they've had to shut the gas off and hopefully today the issue is being resolved and will be fixed. But already, they probably feel like they've been troubled and had to pay for it, not to mention already being willing to pay for termite clearance in a hot sellers market where things like this aren't "normal" but they took our offer with inspection contingency (presumably because of strong financials) so there's also that to our advantage. They've been pretty cooperative but it seems like with these situations you don't want to push too many buttons *all* the time and ask for credits, discounts, repairs, one after the other as it puts more tension on the transaction. So I think he's trying to tread lightly with the intention of "laying the hammer down" after we get all the facts.

Currently it appears that it's just the husband who's living there, so access to the home has been relatively easy and he seems to have been pretty cooperative so far. I think things would be a lot more different if it were multiple people living there and or people who were not flexible (like the last seller we dealt with)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 01:56:05 PM by jeromedawg »

chemistk

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2021, 02:21:01 PM »
Having gone through the purchase process, and now working on renovations, plus my exposure over the course of my life to many different homes - my amateur's observation/conclusion is that just about any home >15 years old (and even some <15 years) is going to have problems. Water, hazmat, plumbing, electrical, infestation, foundation...take your pick.

Asbestos & lead paint were so common, I think most people will have been adversely exposed to one or both over the course of their lives without knowing it. I've heard rumors on miscellaneous DIY forums that it may come to pass that fiberglass goes the way of asbestos.

I don't think it's practical or reasonable for folks to be able to disclose or even understand everything that is wrong with a house when selling. I want to be clear that I'm making a generalization on your thread, not saying this necessarily about the specific concerns you've raised.

But my broader point is that we quibble over the little issues, worried that a structure is not safe to inhabit, when the reality is that most structures could conceivably be deemed unsafe - even new builds might be unsafe in the future if we find out another common building material is bad for us.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2021, 04:49:38 PM »
Having gone through the purchase process, and now working on renovations, plus my exposure over the course of my life to many different homes - my amateur's observation/conclusion is that just about any home >15 years old (and even some <15 years) is going to have problems. Water, hazmat, plumbing, electrical, infestation, foundation...take your pick.

Asbestos & lead paint were so common, I think most people will have been adversely exposed to one or both over the course of their lives without knowing it. I've heard rumors on miscellaneous DIY forums that it may come to pass that fiberglass goes the way of asbestos.

I don't think it's practical or reasonable for folks to be able to disclose or even understand everything that is wrong with a house when selling. I want to be clear that I'm making a generalization on your thread, not saying this necessarily about the specific concerns you've raised.

But my broader point is that we quibble over the little issues, worried that a structure is not safe to inhabit, when the reality is that most structures could conceivably be deemed unsafe - even new builds might be unsafe in the future if we find out another common building material is bad for us.

I understand your point. I think the problem is once you start involving multiple companies and contractors, things get muddied quickly and it starts getting more complex than it should be. For example this whole thing now with asbestos - at first when we called out high moisture readings in the wall we asked the sellers "hey can you just work with us on this?" and they demanded the mold inspection. And now we're at the point where we're pretty sure there will be mold but now we have to check for asbestos (and we have concerns that they didn't test for asbestos on prior work they did and may have contaminated the entire house IF asbestos is found assuming we proceed with getting that test prior to mold remediation).
I guess it's better finding this out so we can get some quotes to help quantify how much we'll be requesting from the seller in terms of credits or price reduction.
But part of me is apprehensive with how to negotiate down and get the seller to agree to pay for a lot of this stuff too. They could say "no" and we'll be left footing the bill.  Everyone says "this is 1% of your purchase price just deal with it" - but it's kind of irritating to accept that given the fact that this isn't one of those "sold as is" homes.

Side question: the roof leak/water damage that occurred last year wasn't done via insurance. We're not sure why but our realtor I think was speculating that maybe they did that to avoid having their premium going up but the cost of doing all that damage remediation and repair was at least $15k... is there any other reason why they would have decided not to go through insurance for something like that?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 05:27:36 PM by jeromedawg »

PMJL34

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2021, 05:59:14 PM »
Jerome,

1) Chemistk is absolutely correct. asbestos, lead paint, etc. etc. all that shit is everywhere and it's impact on your family's health is so exaggerated it's not even funny. This home is safe, period. End of story.

2) You and your realtor are not on the same team.

You are on team: I want a nice move in ready home.
Realtor is on team: This is not my home and I will never live in it. I just need the 25K commission. If this deal falls apart, I get $0 for my entire effort.

I feel like you are trusting the realtor way too much. He obviously doesn't want the deal to fall apart. If he was the buyer (in your shoes) he would not be saying, "We need to be gentle. Just relax" at every lie the sellers/selling agent get caught up in.

3) I wouldn't care much about the mold. You can swap out the drywall and it's gone forever (assuming it's a product of the sprinklers and not a roof leak). No biggie. However, the wood that is exposed to constant water/dampness in those walls is what would concern me. The mudsill and bottom 2 feet of the studs/framing may be shot. That can be expensive to fix. If the sprinklers were truly wetting the wood year-round for multiple years, odds are not in your favor. 

4) Like I said, even with all of this, the house is perfectly fine. None of it would concern me. I would buy and happily move in as I stated multiple times. HOWEVER, it wouldn't hurt to demand price reduction/credit left and right as a matter of principle for their lies/cover ups. You have a lot more leverage than you think. The seller does not want this to go back on the market. And guess what, neither does their realtor lol. You are the highest offer. They would be a fool to not lower the price at least to the next highest offer (whatever that was) and even a bit below that to just close and move on. The market is not as hot as you think. The worst they can say is no. Sounds like you haven't even asked.

On the other hand, if you are truly happy with the home and the area, then just close the deal and and move on. You've done inspector gadget level digging into this home and I feel you know what you are purchasing. This is a perfectly fine choice as well.

Side note, I can't believe the sellers bought this home for 750k in 2004. That's rough.   

Edit: If I were the sellers. I'd be much happier crediting/price reduction of 10k than being asked to inspect/fix etc ever few days. I feel like if you are truly worried about the deal falling apart, this level of "nagging (probably how the sellers would describe it)" you are doing is more harmful than just asking for a reduction and closing asap. just food for thought. 

Either way, you got this!



« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 06:03:54 PM by PMJL34 »

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2021, 06:29:36 PM »
Jerome,

1) Chemistk is absolutely correct. asbestos, lead paint, etc. etc. all that shit is everywhere and it's impact on your family's health is so exaggerated it's not even funny. This home is safe, period. End of story.

2) You and your realtor are not on the same team.

You are on team: I want a nice move in ready home.
Realtor is on team: This is not my home and I will never live in it. I just need the 25K commission. If this deal falls apart, I get $0 for my entire effort.

I feel like you are trusting the realtor way too much. He obviously doesn't want the deal to fall apart. If he was the buyer (in your shoes) he would not be saying, "We need to be gentle. Just relax" at every lie the sellers/selling agent get caught up in.

3) I wouldn't care much about the mold. You can swap out the drywall and it's gone forever (assuming it's a product of the sprinklers and not a roof leak). No biggie. However, the wood that is exposed to constant water/dampness in those walls is what would concern me. The mudsill and bottom 2 feet of the studs/framing may be shot. That can be expensive to fix. If the sprinklers were truly wetting the wood year-round for multiple years, odds are not in your favor. 

4) Like I said, even with all of this, the house is perfectly fine. None of it would concern me. I would buy and happily move in as I stated multiple times. HOWEVER, it wouldn't hurt to demand price reduction/credit left and right as a matter of principle for their lies/cover ups. You have a lot more leverage than you think. The seller does not want this to go back on the market. And guess what, neither does their realtor lol. You are the highest offer. They would be a fool to not lower the price at least to the next highest offer (whatever that was) and even a bit below that to just close and move on. The market is not as hot as you think. The worst they can say is no. Sounds like you haven't even asked.

On the other hand, if you are truly happy with the home and the area, then just close the deal and and move on. You've done inspector gadget level digging into this home and I feel you know what you are purchasing. This is a perfectly fine choice as well.

Side note, I can't believe the sellers bought this home for 750k in 2004. That's rough.   

Edit: If I were the sellers. I'd be much happier crediting/price reduction of 10k than being asked to inspect/fix etc ever few days. I feel like if you are truly worried about the deal falling apart, this level of "nagging (probably how the sellers would describe it)" you are doing is more harmful than just asking for a reduction and closing asap. just food for thought. 

Either way, you got this!

So the thing is, we were prepared to ask for the credit or price reduction (per our realtor) but from the sounds of it the sellers and their agent *demanded* that we do this mold inspection before we could get a remediation quote. So in a sense, they asked for it and opened their own can of worms here.

Anyway, the mold report came back a resounding positive. Good to know about the wood - the moisture in the wall appears to be not the "flooding" kind of moisture but more the cumulative damp moisture that builds up over time. Presumably when the remediation company opens the wall up, they'll see the severity of the damage. Now, in order for there to be a quote on remediation we would also need to get an asbestos test. I don't know what the ballpark would be for this kind of remediation (and then the subsequent repair) but are you estimating $10k just for that?
I think at this point we have to ask for a larger price reduction also factoring in them covering the termites, broken roof tiles, and whatever else we want in addition. I think we'll need to tally everything up and present something to them to justify it. I would probably ask for $5k over whatever the estimates/quotes are accounting for extra padding and our time and trouble with dealing with all of it. So it could end up being $20-25k that we ask for. As far as what they'll try to negotiate down, I don't know but I suppose the thought is to start high and work down low? Our realtor is afraid that asking too much will piss the sellers off and they'll move on. I understand but don't know where that "fine line" is in this situation.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 07:20:14 PM by jeromedawg »

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2021, 08:33:25 AM »
At this point our realtor has sent the inspection back to the seller's agent and is waiting for their response. The seller's agent has indicated that time for the inspection contingency should be up now. However, our realtor also indicated that we have the right to do this per the discovery of new issues, on top of that this was actually initiated because the sellers requested and allowed the mold inspection - if they didn't want to do that they didn't have to but they are the ones who opened the can of worms by saying they needed a mold inspection done in order to consider addressing any issues with the high moisture in the wall.

We're not sure what direction things will go at this point. On one hand, our realtor is getting the sense that they might be getting frustrated. At the same time, I was urging him to remind the sellers that this is what they wanted. And that we also did them a 'favor' with the gas leak issue as far as a more immediate health concern with gas leaking into the owner's bedroom while he's living there.
We're still pushing for the price reduction but I can tell our realtor is trying to get away from that. Even if we got a price reduction back to what our original offer was $30k less, that's *peanuts* worth of commission for both realtors. I don't understand why they both wouldn't just see that, come to their senses, and encourage each other and the sellers to do that and get over it. Our realtor kept saying that there are a lot of buyers out there who are more desperate than we are who would jump into buying without second thought (just like what happened with the last deal that fell apart). I was trying to counter that with the difference being that these next buyers will have all these disclosures and would demand a price decrease anyway (or that the sellers would have to decrease the price in order to get it to move, knowing the issues) but our realtor was saying that they might do that but they also might not and try to sell it at the same price or close to the same price to the next person willing to pay for it.
As I've been looking at other homes/comps, it doesn't seem like there's much out there that you can get in terms of price per sq ft compared to what we're currently looking at. So based on those things (and especially trying to find another home of similar size and price point), it feels like we don't have that much leverage at all.
Our realtor is going to try to setup an appoint for a damage remediation company to come out and survey/assess and give an estimate of the mold remediation/repair. This is the same company who actually did the prior remediation but who may not have gone through the proper procedure of doing asbestos testing first, so there's also that and our realtor is trying to find more about whether or not that was done and to get more supplemental information (basically a secondary check) in case the sellers are withholding other information. At this point, I'm not sure how things are going to go, other than to hope that the sellers would just be cooperative and are desperate enough to at some point just offer us a reasonable credit/price decrease and we call it a day. Our realtor keeps saying he's just preparing for the worst case in that they say "no"

PMJL34

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2021, 09:52:55 AM »
We're only hearing your side of the story so it's hard to gauge the entire transaction/vibe as a whole.

All I know is that your realtor is doing exactly what I said he would do. Can't say I blame him.

If I were the sellers, I don't want a shit load of reports that I already know about. It sounds like your team is being very indirect/beating around the bush and hoping the sellers will come up with a number, but that's not the way it works. If you are the one that wants a price reduction, you need to throw a number out there first, imo. I guess you can just sit and put the pressure on them to just offer something first too. Again it's hard to gauge the temperature of the sellers. Like do you think they are stressed that you found out these issues and feel cornered into a reduction OR do they think these are all minor fixes and just sick of your shit?

Sorry you are put in a difficult place again. Keep in mind, you are the one with power here so stay positive!

 

 

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2021, 10:29:02 AM »
We're only hearing your side of the story so it's hard to gauge the entire transaction/vibe as a whole.

All I know is that your realtor is doing exactly what I said he would do. Can't say I blame him.

If I were the sellers, I don't want a shit load of reports that I already know about. It sounds like your team is being very indirect/beating around the bush and hoping the sellers will come up with a number, but that's not the way it works. If you are the one that wants a price reduction, you need to throw a number out there first, imo. I guess you can just sit and put the pressure on them to just offer something first too. Again it's hard to gauge the temperature of the sellers. Like do you think they are stressed that you found out these issues and feel cornered into a reduction OR do they think these are all minor fixes and just sick of your shit?

Sorry you are put in a difficult place again. Keep in mind, you are the one with power here so stay positive!

Based on what you're suggesting, it sounds like it would be best to try to find out where the sellers are before we throw the number out? I tend to agree with you and I think our realtor is trying to get them to give a response - last he was telling us is basically "the ball is in their court now so I'm waiting for their move and response"

I'm going to press him to try to find out what the "temperature" is - I get the feeling they're stressed but at the same time I feel like they should be thanking us for calling these things out too. They *might* be thinking these are just minor fixes - according to our realtor, the seller's agent gave him the impression that mold is just something you can spray some bleach on and mop up LOL...

But I mean, what would are you suggesting if they A) are stressed and feel cornered versus B) think this is minor and sick of it? It seems like with A) we would have more leverage to ask for a more significant reduction but for B) we may not have that kind of leverage and can perhaps ask for a smaller decrease if anything? Per our realtor, his "worst case" is that we'd ask and piss them off to the point that they fail to perform and move to the next buyer. And he keeps saying "I'm defaulting to worst case" so thus the conclusion is that he's avoiding asking for the price decrease UNLESS he knows we have some additional sort of leverage to qualify and justify asking for that kind of reduction.
In either case, if we were to throw a number out are we looking to aim high and work down from there? The feeling we get from our realtor is that he wants to collect as much info, evidence, etc (disclosures, documentation, etc) before he proceeds to doing these kinds of negotiations. But yea, it does seem like beating around the bush. At the same time, he's trying to frame this in the light that we wouldn't have gotten to this point if the sellers had just been willing to negotiate on price without demanding the mold inspection. I think that complicated it and has turned up the stress levels for people.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 10:40:05 AM by jeromedawg »

cchrissyy

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2021, 10:50:32 AM »
both sides realtors top priority is getting the deal done.

at the same time that yours is encouraging you not to rock the boat, you should expect the other side's realtor will be encouraging the sellers to give a credit and get this over with.

i agree you should ask for a number, not a series of reports and appointments but just, here is a figure and if you grant the credit we can all move on.  I don't know what the number is. don't be greedy but yes ask for enough so they're covering at least half of the cost.  be very straightforward. We want $___ credit to deal with this and we will imediately waive all the contingencies and inspections and will do the repairs after closing.

nobody wants this to drag out into the fall.  the fact is, the market is cooling a little. you pointed that out as a little less inventory for you to shop from but remember to look at this from the sellers side, they have reasons they wanted to be done with this house by then. the pool of buyers is smaller during the school year than in the summer. plus, if they lose you they have to disclose all this to the new buyers and explain why it fell out of escrow and stayed on the market too long. and their realtor will be telling them your offer is still the best one they got and the market is flat or weak since then. again, the agent does not care about losing a few bucks on their their tiny percent share. they only get their big check if and when the deal is done so it will be to his/her advantage to exaggerate any weakening.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 10:53:12 AM by cchrissyy »

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2021, 11:19:27 AM »
both sides realtors top priority is getting the deal done.

at the same time that yours is encouraging you not to rock the boat, you should expect the other side's realtor will be encouraging the sellers to give a credit and get this over with.

i agree you should ask for a number, not a series of reports and appointments but just, here is a figure and if you grant the credit we can all move on.  I don't know what the number is. don't be greedy but yes ask for enough so they're covering at least half of the cost.  be very straightforward. We want $___ credit to deal with this and we will imediately waive all the contingencies and inspections and will do the repairs after closing.

nobody wants this to drag out into the fall.  the fact is, the market is cooling a little. you pointed that out as a little less inventory for you to shop from but remember to look at this from the sellers side, they have reasons they wanted to be done with this house by then. the pool of buyers is smaller during the school year than in the summer. plus, if they lose you they have to disclose all this to the new buyers and explain why it fell out of escrow and stayed on the market too long. and their realtor will be telling them your offer is still the best one they got and the market is flat or weak since then. again, the agent does not care about losing a few bucks on their their tiny percent share. they only get their big check if and when the deal is done so it will be to his/her advantage to exaggerate any weakening.

Without knowing the severity, extent and costs of required remediation for the mold and subsequent repairs (or any other things that are to be uncovered, such as asbestos which would raise the cost), right now we're looking at a minimum cost of repairs of under $8k for termite mitigation and sewer line offset repair. Termite mitigation will likely result in broken tiles in which case it's like $20 to replace each broken tile (upon speaking with the roofer) so this could also get quite expensive. This isn't factoring in all the other "health and safety" items called out by the inspector (if we were to include all those it would be probably closer to $10k - furnace safety items, GFIs, and a number of other things).

I don't know what mold/asbestos remediation and repair/restoration costs would end up being - if I had to guess probably $5k at a minimum and maybe as high as $10k? Anyone here have direct experience with this kind of work?

So asking for a credit in the amount of a reduction to our original offer price might be a bit much ($30k). Maybe $15k at a minimum or even $20k to factor in any padding for the unknowns?
 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 11:25:14 AM by jeromedawg »

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2021, 12:33:25 PM »
In your shoes, I'd recommend a 50% ask of the direct & known costs, with zero padding. That would come across to me (as a seller, who recently went through a transaction) as a money grab, vs a clear explanation of what needs to be fixed. I'd probably ask for $15k, knowing they will likely negotiate down to $10k

Mrs. Sloth

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2021, 12:42:27 PM »
When we bought our house in this hot market, I was a little hesitant to ask for a credit but my husband insisted. It was only for a few thousand dollars (no expensive repairs needed or anything). I asked for our realtor to call the seller's realtor to gauge how open they are to a credit in the amt we had in mind before writing an official response. To our realtor's surprise, they were agreeable to the credit! Just sharing our experience.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2021, 01:21:20 PM »
In your shoes, I'd recommend a 50% ask of the direct & known costs, with zero padding. That would come across to me (as a seller, who recently went through a transaction) as a money grab, vs a clear explanation of what needs to be fixed. I'd probably ask for $15k, knowing they will likely negotiate down to $10k

Thanks. Did you mean that asking for 50% of the known costs (documenting everything) would come across as a clear explanation of what needs to be fixed versus a "money grab"? What you initially said made it sound like we'd be making a "money grab" by asking for 50% of the known issues...so just trying to get clarification on that.

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2021, 01:34:44 PM »
In your shoes, I'd recommend a 50% ask of the direct & known costs, with zero padding. That would come across to me (as a seller, who recently went through a transaction) as a money grab, vs a clear explanation of what needs to be fixed. I'd probably ask for $15k, knowing they will likely negotiate down to $10k

Thanks. Did you mean that asking for 50% of the known costs (documenting everything) would come across as a clear explanation of what needs to be fixed versus a "money grab"? What you initially said made it sound like we'd be making a "money grab" by asking for 50% of the known issues...so just trying to get clarification on that.

I agree, that was super confusing.

PMJL34

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2021, 03:43:54 PM »
Jerome, you keep saying you are doing the sellers a favor by discovering problems with the house. Lol the sellers called me and said the complete opposite.

The reality is that the sellers are done with this home. They want out. They don't want to put a penny more into the home. They could care less if it was toxic. They just want to sell it asap.

RE: Asbestos
It's a tract full of homes built in the same year by same builders with same materials. If there was asbestos, it would be well known by now. Ask the HOA or neighbors.

When is that mold quote coming to you? I don't see how you would even do mold remediation inside the walls without removing drywall. I guess they could just blow heat in from the bottom, but how effective is that really?

Disclaimer: none of us are buying this house, only you. Please don't take anything we say as gospel. I know this is extremely stressful.

But here's what I would personally do:

Since the sellers already countered your original purchase offer, they clearly know how to counter and will most likely counter anything you ask.

Unlike the other posters, I ask for more since I know they will negotiate down. I think other posters are posting from their experience as sellers as well so keep that in mind. You ain't selling shit lol. I would ask for 25k-30k which I think is fair with the realistic expectation of settling around 15-20k. This will most likely allow you to fumigate, fix the roof tiles, and fix the sewer. This also allows the sellers to still sell for above asking and most likely above the next highest offer.

Again, this is just me. Please do what you feel is best.

Side note: I don't think the sellers can back out of the contract due to a reduction request. I believe the worst they can do is say no. Someone else please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm correct, there's virtually nothing you can lose by asking.

Again, if you are certain this is the home and you just want to close, closing as is without a reduction is a perfectly fine choice as well. In 2 years this 15k reduction or no reduction will be completely irrelevant.

Also, are they still asking for the rent back? I just did one, but considering that it's just one person and the rest of the family left, why are they asking for it? Rent backs during covid is a super high risk move.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 03:46:57 PM by PMJL34 »

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2021, 04:02:27 PM »
Jerome, you keep saying you are doing the sellers a favor by discovering problems with the house. Lol the sellers called me and said the complete opposite.

The reality is that the sellers are done with this home. They want out. They don't want to put a penny more into the home. They could care less if it was toxic. They just want to sell it asap.

RE: Asbestos
It's a tract full of homes built in the same year by same builders with same materials. If there was asbestos, it would be well known by now. Ask the HOA or neighbors.

When is that mold quote coming to you? I don't see how you would even do mold remediation inside the walls without removing drywall. I guess they could just blow heat in from the bottom, but how effective is that really?

Disclaimer: none of us are buying this house, only you. Please don't take anything we say as gospel. I know this is extremely stressful.

But here's what I would personally do:

Since the sellers already countered your original purchase offer, they clearly know how to counter and will most likely counter anything you ask.

Unlike the other posters, I ask for more since I know they will negotiate down. I think other posters are posting from their experience as sellers as well so keep that in mind. You ain't selling shit lol. I would ask for 25k-30k which I think is fair with the realistic expectation of settling around 15-20k. This will most likely allow you to fumigate, fix the roof tiles, and fix the sewer. This also allows the sellers to still sell for above asking and most likely above the next highest offer.

Again, this is just me. Please do what you feel is best.

Side note: I don't think the sellers can back out of the contract due to a reduction request. I believe the worst they can do is say no. Someone else please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm correct, there's virtually nothing you can lose by asking.

Again, if you are certain this is the home and you just want to close, closing as is without a reduction is a perfectly fine choice as well. In 2 years this 15k reduction or no reduction will be completely irrelevant.

Also, are they still asking for the rent back? I just did one, but considering that it's just one person and the rest of the family left, why are they asking for it? Rent backs during covid is a super high risk move.

So the mold remediation is part of the whole drywall removal/remediation - usually the same company removing drywall takes care of the mold as well (unless there's asbestos). My understanding is that they're going to tarp and tape off the area of work, cut a certain amount of drywall and insulation out and dispose, then spray/scrub the exposed areas, sand down the affected areas then run fans and dehumidifiers to remove any and all remaining moisture. The repair work would just be to have someone else come in to fill the insulation, replace the drywall and baseboard, and then texture and paint.

My line of thinking is similar to yours - counter higher at is still a reasonable number (but nothing outrageous).
BTW: the "next highest offer" was actually an offer higher than ours but I think our overall position was stronger (probably a higher down payment amount). Next highest offer after that might have been 'competitive' but still not as good a position. The longer this goes on too, the likelier those buyers aren't going to stick around for the home so there's also that and the risk the sellers take is that they have to relist the home completely which sucks (I've seen multiple homes relist multiple times in the current environment). I believe the sellers could fail to perform in order to get out of contract but our realtor says we could potentially pursue legal action if they do something like that and at least recoup the costs of what we spent. Although, I feel like most or all the money would end up just going to pay the lawyers off at that point lol.

They still want rentback and the reason is they are planning to move the husband that lives there to a 55+ community. But before they can find a home for him there they need to sell this place first (unless they go contingent on something they find and like). 29 days seems like a short window for them to find a property and move in right away but who knows... I guess they'd be doing a cash purchase or something. What would help in this situation (as far as making them more desperate) would be if they went contingent or already were contingent on something that's dependent on this closing in time - so they could be bluffing by not saying anything to show their hand). BTW: when you say it's a super high risk move, do you mean because of the moratorium in that they could potentially refuse to leave/vacate?

PMJL34

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2021, 05:57:08 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, but I just have way more questions now.

1. Mold: what you describe sounds very expensive and will take a long time.
2. Why do you believe there was an offer higher than yours?
3. Where is the wife? Is the husband going to live on his own in the 55+ community? So divorced? Either way, he ain't buying a new place within 29days. He needs to move in somewhere else while he shops for a new place. If he can't stay with his wife, he needs to go somewhere else.
4.  Rent back is essentially a tenant agreement. You have no recourse if he stays. Even if he doesn't pay, he can stay until eviction can take place (who knows when in Cali). Not saying he will do this, but he could.
5. The sellers won't go the "fail to perform" path.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 08:43:52 AM by PMJL34 »

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #75 on: August 18, 2021, 06:57:09 PM »
In your shoes, I'd recommend a 50% ask of the direct & known costs, with zero padding. That would come across to me (as a seller, who recently went through a transaction) as a money grab, vs a clear explanation of what needs to be fixed. I'd probably ask for $15k, knowing they will likely negotiate down to $10k

Thanks. Did you mean that asking for 50% of the known costs (documenting everything) would come across as a clear explanation of what needs to be fixed versus a "money grab"? What you initially said made it sound like we'd be making a "money grab" by asking for 50% of the known issues...so just trying to get clarification on that.

I agree, that was super confusing.

Ask for 50% of the known costs, with clear documentation. Do not pad the ask with other costs, because as a seller, I'd read that as a money grab

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #76 on: August 18, 2021, 08:28:45 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, but I just gave wayyy more questions.

1. Mold: what you describe sounds very expensive and will take a long time.
2. Why do you believe there was an offer higher than yours?
3. Where is the wife? Is the husband going to live on his own in the 55+ community? So divorced? Either way, he ain't buying a new place within 29days. He needs to move in somewhere else while he shops for a new place. If he can't stay with his wife, he needs to go somewhere else.
4.  Rent back is essentially a tenant agreement. You have no recourse if he stays. Even if he doesn't pay, he can stay until eviction can take place (who knows when in Cali). Not saying he will do this, but he could.
5. The sellers won't go the "fail to perform" path.

1) Yea we're not sure what actual mold remediation entails directly. We've only dealt with water remediation so my initial estimate is based on that. The sellers did have "mold" remediation done previously but I don't think it was as drastic as this - not sure how many levels of severity there are to it. For the prior work done by the remediation company they brought in last year for the other part of the house that had the leak though, they spent a total of $3250~ taping/tenting off the area, tearing out drywall, sanding, applying the anti-microbial agent, cleaning/vacuuming, hauling away, drying carpet, etc. And that's ONLY for the remediation, not the repair work. This was for a larger area of the home as well. So I'd anticipate remediation costing as much or less than the $3250~. It's the repair work that would make that number go up, so maybe my estimate was relatively accurate - I was estimating somewhere in the $5000 range for the mold remediation and full restoration of that area.
We already have a potential legal/liability issue on hand with this same remediation company - I found out today that if any company does renovation work cumulatively exceeding 100sq ft, they are bound to submit a survey (test) for asbestos clearance. The work remediation they did last year exceeded 100sq ft and the sellers are saying everything they've already disclosed is all there is regarding asbestos. This tells me that it wasn't done...unless the company subcontracted the asbestos testing out - we just don't have any of that documentation and when I called them they were tight-lipped about it. But usually these companies will tell the owner that they need to get an independent test done. At least, this is what I was told.
If they didn't do this and we do the asbestos test and it is positive, they could be in real hot water. If asbestos isn't found, they could still get in some trouble with AQMD.gov (probably just a fine... and potentially could be subject to being sued by the buyer; not sure we would want to go down that route).

2) The sellers agent only verbally indicated that there were multiple other offers, one of which that was higher than ours. I don't know that our agent ever received proof of that. I'm not sure if our agent was able to verify/validate by some other means.

3) The living situation is interesting - the wife is still gainfully employed but took a job up in LA which is a LONG commute from this location. She's probably close to retiring and their kids/step-kids (the husband and wife came together after prior marriages, I believe... not sure exactly when they were re-married) are all out of the house. She is renting an apartment or something up in LA closer to her work and supposedly comes back down on the weekends to be with the husband. So he's in this huge house by himself most of the time. I think they are just wanting to downsize and get into a smaller place also for the 55+ amenities for him especially (he's in his 70s and she's in her 50s IIRC). It's quite possible he may stay with the wife up in LA assuming the 29 days is up and they haven't found anything. Unless they plan to rent in that community until they find something.

4) Interesting - I'm going to have to ask our realtor more on this. They seem like they're in a position to get out as soon as possible from what I can tell. Once escrow closes, am I (as a landlord) able to begin any sort of work on the place? Or does that require permission from the tenant?

5) Why wouldn't they "fail to perform" in a situation where they are fed up with us? Is it because they could be opening themselves up to legal action? 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 12:04:56 PM by jeromedawg »

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #77 on: August 19, 2021, 03:39:59 PM »
I wasn't there (didn't want to be) but the remediation company came out today to get measurements for the estimate so we should hopefully have that tonight or tomorrow. They *only* do the remediation so we'd have to figure out the cost to replace the drywall/baseboard/paint either via our own estimate or having another company come out to give that.

Our agent pressed the remediation company about the prior work they had done and whether or not asbestos testing was done. The estimator (same guy who estimated the work from last year's roof leak) fumbled around and tried to come up with excuses but eventually admitted to not having the asbestos testing done. Per my call with AQMD and the rules around this, the company was supposed to have done this check because the work area exceeded 100sq ft.
So in light of this, we still had a guy come out to collect samples for asbestos testing - if the results come back positive, that company (and possibly the sellers) are going to be in deep doo-doo for potentially spreading asbestos all over the house. It's not such a big deal when the asbestos is contained and remains contains but the moment it gets opened up and then you have fans blowing it all around, that can never be a good thing. Our hope is that it just comes back negative and we can get past all of that headache.

Owners sounded tired of everything but still willing to work with us to get it closed per what our realtor relayed. Keep in mind the context of all this though: our realtor suggested negotiations for credit/discount to account for the wet drywall after it was called out by the general inspector last week. It was the sellers and their agent who demanded the mold inspection and in doing so opened this can of worms. If they hadn't made that demand and just offered the credit, knowing full well that they had done "cover-up" work in this area who knows how long ago, we wouldn't be at this point. And honestly, I'd probably be a little upset but not any more upset than I am now because of everything else that has come up.
 
The seller's agent wants to just let things cool off and wait for the results. So this is going into next week. We are extending the inspection contingency until we can reach negotiations with the sellers. At this point I'm looking for negotiating a price reduction. Whether that's splitting 50% or having the sellers kick back a little more if we have found out they weren't being completely forthcoming, it doesn't really matter. But after all this hassle we've gone through, I would expect something reasonable and fair taking into consideration all of the above.

Oh, our realtor also got an update on that gas leak and it has been remediated. It wasn't as straightforward figuring out what happened but they ended up finding that the supply line in the area around the closet had gotten punctured by a nail or screw either during some drywall repair or maybe a shelf installation?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 03:45:49 PM by jeromedawg »

PMJL34

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2021, 10:01:59 AM »
I don't get why you should split the cost of repairs? The home had these known issues, they didn't disclose it, and now you offer to pay 50% of it??? Again you bid on a house that didn't include these issues, correct? If you would have known up front about these, I guarantee your offer would have been different.

The way gas pipes are, if there's a puncture mid run, you can't just fix that one single pin hole without disassembling the entire rest of the run. Unless they use unions which aren't up to code. Whatever though. Glad it was fixed. Just the idea of the sellers fixing things doesn't sit right with me. It's going to be your house, hopefully for many, many generations. You should do the work and know that it's done right. The sellers have already, and will continue, to put bandaid fixes. For example, this gas issue was clearly behind drywall. Did they repair the drywall and texture and repaint? I highly doubt it. I mean again, it's safe and whatever, but it's all stuff you should say "How much is it going to cost? Okay, give me the credit and I'll do it. Let's move forward" I bet you will have to re-do everything they touched at an even high cost after moving in.

I have a feeling the sellers are getting really tired of all of this by now. You are also putting in a lot of time, money, and effort. AND YET there hasn't been one hint of a price reduction mentioned by anyone. The sellers are prolly thinking, "I fixed everything this buyer wants, let's close now" and here you come with "I want $XXX reduction" and they may be blind sided and really mess up the transaction. When I buy homes, any issues that came up, I have a blunt discussion of cost and move forward for me to fix later. It's both faster to close and less stressful than this.

Now keep in mind, I am doing a shit load of monday morning quarterbacking. I am also typing from the comfort of my home without repercussions. I most likely don't have a clue on the real temperature of the deal. So as always, take everything I say with an elephant sized grain of salt and trust yourself.

Best of luck Jerome!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 10:03:56 AM by PMJL34 »

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2021, 02:13:25 PM »
I don't get why you should split the cost of repairs? The home had these known issues, they didn't disclose it, and now you offer to pay 50% of it??? Again you bid on a house that didn't include these issues, correct? If you would have known up front about these, I guarantee your offer would have been different.

The way gas pipes are, if there's a puncture mid run, you can't just fix that one single pin hole without disassembling the entire rest of the run. Unless they use unions which aren't up to code. Whatever though. Glad it was fixed. Just the idea of the sellers fixing things doesn't sit right with me. It's going to be your house, hopefully for many, many generations. You should do the work and know that it's done right. The sellers have already, and will continue, to put bandaid fixes. For example, this gas issue was clearly behind drywall. Did they repair the drywall and texture and repaint? I highly doubt it. I mean again, it's safe and whatever, but it's all stuff you should say "How much is it going to cost? Okay, give me the credit and I'll do it. Let's move forward" I bet you will have to re-do everything they touched at an even high cost after moving in.

I have a feeling the sellers are getting really tired of all of this by now. You are also putting in a lot of time, money, and effort. AND YET there hasn't been one hint of a price reduction mentioned by anyone. The sellers are prolly thinking, "I fixed everything this buyer wants, let's close now" and here you come with "I want $XXX reduction" and they may be blind sided and really mess up the transaction. When I buy homes, any issues that came up, I have a blunt discussion of cost and move forward for me to fix later. It's both faster to close and less stressful than this.

Now keep in mind, I am doing a shit load of monday morning quarterbacking. I am also typing from the comfort of my home without repercussions. I most likely don't have a clue on the real temperature of the deal. So as always, take everything I say with an elephant sized grain of salt and trust yourself.

Best of luck Jerome!

I don't think the sellers knew that there was mold behind the wall. But it does seem they knew it was wet (and may deny that). I'm sure they're in denial that them running the irrigation in the front was the cause of the moisture/mold in the wall as well. They also probably weren't aware that the roof tiles broke from sending someone up there to probably look for a leak in that area related to the same front wall. They didn't know about the gas leak or the sewer line offset either.

I wanted to remind though too, regarding your comment about having a blunt discussion, is that our realtor DID tell the seller's agent up front that he wanted to bring in a remediation company to get a quote for addressing the moisture in the wall (and to ultimately negotiate a credit) but the seller's agent *insisted* on us getting the mold inspection done. I don't feel we're really being nitpicky about this stuff as much as the seller's/their agent took a wrong turn with things.

So how should I have our realtor frame it?: "We agreed to your counteroffer to pay for a home that wasn't supposed to have these kinds of issues. My client was expecting turnkey no issues with the an inspection that should have turned up clean. Let's just close this out for $15k discounted off, including the termite mitigation, which you already agreed to and be done with it. We are willing to close escrow sooner if we can agree to this." ?

Based on what a few others have said here, I'd imagine the sellers will want to split the costs *at best* at this point. It seems to them that they believe this is still a very hot sellers market. Maybe it is...maybe it isn't but from what I've been tracking (just looking at homes that have recently sold on Redfin) and hearing it first hand from realtors, even for homes that have been sitting stale there aren't many that are being sold for under list price UNLESS they are a more than minor fixer-upper and or are majorly dated. And this doesn't even factor in what buyers are offering sellers and if the closing price was originally what was agreed to in counteroffers or not (so there could be a lot of people who put in a high counter offer, got it accepted, and negotiated the price back down hard)
 

We could start higher with that number but we also don't want post an unreasonable number that could appear as a "money grab" as stated earlier (our realtor leans somewhere between where he thinks we should start higher but not too high)

One thing I forgot to mention is that the agent told our agent that he's been "in touch" with other buyers and what not.

The only thing they've "fixed" so far was an imminent safety issue that immediately impacted THEM, which was the gas line issue.



« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 05:47:10 PM by jeromedawg »

chemistk

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2021, 06:39:17 PM »
What if you called around and gave detailed information about the issues and got quotes for the 'worst case' scenario from each of those companies and then presented them to the sellers as "Look, here's what it might end up being, or we can just take $15k (or some other appropriate number) off and call it a deal"?

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2021, 06:43:26 PM »
What if you called around and gave detailed information about the issues and got quotes for the 'worst case' scenario from each of those companies and then presented them to the sellers as "Look, here's what it might end up being, or we can just take $15k (or some other appropriate number) off and call it a deal"?

We have been collecting quotes to justify the ask but never the "worst case". Not sure how much worse things could get at this rate either. The 'concern' is that they'll come back and say they won't credit us anything of course...

chemistk

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2021, 06:48:08 PM »
What if you called around and gave detailed information about the issues and got quotes for the 'worst case' scenario from each of those companies and then presented them to the sellers as "Look, here's what it might end up being, or we can just take $15k (or some other appropriate number) off and call it a deal"?

We have been collecting quotes to justify the ask but never the "worst case". Not sure how much worse things could get at this rate either. The 'concern' is that they'll come back and say they won't credit us anything of course...

My thought was that if you get the "worst case" and it's higher than the $15k or whatever you'd ask for, you're essentially telling the sellers that you're willing to close now in exchange for a little extra personal risk (and you're already probably getting a great deal on this one regardless) and avoid any more people coming over/waiting for quotes and reports.

I doubt the husband wants to stay there much longer, and if it means he could just close and move out sooner I bet they'd agree to it rather than more back-and-forth (and who knows, it could be a few more weeks of that).

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2021, 07:07:15 PM »
What if you called around and gave detailed information about the issues and got quotes for the 'worst case' scenario from each of those companies and then presented them to the sellers as "Look, here's what it might end up being, or we can just take $15k (or some other appropriate number) off and call it a deal"?

We have been collecting quotes to justify the ask but never the "worst case". Not sure how much worse things could get at this rate either. The 'concern' is that they'll come back and say they won't credit us anything of course...

My thought was that if you get the "worst case" and it's higher than the $15k or whatever you'd ask for, you're essentially telling the sellers that you're willing to close now in exchange for a little extra personal risk (and you're already probably getting a great deal on this one regardless) and avoid any more people coming over/waiting for quotes and reports.

I doubt the husband wants to stay there much longer, and if it means he could just close and move out sooner I bet they'd agree to it rather than more back-and-forth (and who knows, it could be a few more weeks of that).

I see. I think with these sellers it would be tough as it is but I don't know if it's them or their agent advising them to go through "due process". The quotes we have, in writing (which is what they want), are for what was visibly quoted and not a "worst case" - we could certainly ask "worst case" but I'm not if those companies would really draft up a quote for the unforeseen (at least, I haven't really heard of this...)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 07:21:37 PM by jeromedawg »

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #84 on: August 21, 2021, 11:19:18 AM »
Sorry to hear this Jerome. You are having some terrible luck. Not all sellers are like this.

Shit like this would make me ask for a 50k price reduction or walk (90% bluff) and settle for something like 25k just for the dishonesty/principle.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was the realtor who put him up to this. Now you have to second guess every single thing.

You'll get through this.

Seconded.  I was all excited to log in and see that you were finally moving towards closing on your own home finally...and then this. 

That's a big deal, and asking for disclosure after they've already lied to you is a fool's errand--it's not like you can expect them to be honest when you know they intentionally lied. 

Sounds like they think they have a huge problem with the roof/water/leaks so they're trying to offload the house to you...and you just caught the problem. 

I'm with @PMJL34 and I would tend to respond to dishonesty on something major the same way.  You've asked me to take on a huge risk that you hid from me and now want off of your books: pay up or I'll move on and you can find some other sucker...right after I send you a detailed letter discussing your failure to disclose which guarantees the whole mess will go crap-side-up on you and your realtor if there's ever a lawsuit.  So you can have fun with that. 

Sidenote: the realtor was far more likely not in on it, but he has every incentive to have the deal go ahead regardless of condition, inspection, or whether someone is upset over a $20 baseboard.  He's always going to discourage that sort of thing because it risks his deal dying, whereas, if nobody opens up the baseboard, the deal's more likely to clear.  Incentives: it is what it is.  Luckily for you, your inspector got the job done. 

Mold remediation is a beast, and those walls have been soaking up moisture for years.  The studs/etc. may need replacement/you may have more serious issues, but I'd consult with someone with more knowledge than me on that to get an idea of what sort of risk it is that you're taking on. 

I swear, this market is attracting every lemon around: everything that looks like a decent deal lately someone discusses turns out to have some major flaw.  This is not you, @jeromedawg ; this market is not normal.

Honestly, I don't think this is a lemon. The issues we're seeing with this one pale in comparison to the last place we backed out of, which was truly a lemon IMO.

I think the owners at this place did what they thought was best with remediation but obviously some things turned out to be insufficient. I think there are probably more homeowners like this than we realize hahaha. It's not like they were intentionally trying to cut corners and out to fleece people.

As far as them lying, I don't know that we have the *full* picture yet to know if they are lying. We haven't directly asked yet for disclosure around if they knew about the work done in the front wall area and what work was done.

But you guys do have me concerned about the walls and the wood studs - I'm asking some of the inspectors their thoughts and I'm getting mixed feedback. In this case, I wouldn't say the walls were "soaked" due to flooding or major water pooling up. What it sounds like is that the walls have been residually damp for who knows how long, and it's just damp enough to allow mold to grow (I don't think it takes much for mold to grow btw). I don't think that we'll really know what's going on though until that wall is opened up. And I seriously doubt the owners are going to want that to happen before the close of escrow :T
« Last Edit: August 21, 2021, 12:23:24 PM by jeromedawg »

affordablehousing

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #85 on: August 24, 2021, 01:08:17 PM »
There is so much to update on that house cosmetically that the money spent on this possible mold issue will seem like an afterthought in 5 years. The worry over mold too to your family will also be dwarfed by smoke from the fires. Stucco is the king of hiding mold and termite damage and even with bore holes you just have to start tearing off the stucco and seeing where the damage gets to.

I don't want to sound dismissive but you gotta take a leap somewhere. This isn't a condo. There are no real guarantees and there is no point in hiring big companies with big overhead to do work a handyman could do just as well. You may be wearing out the seller and they may just boot you and move on to someone else. I would just give them a figure, say you'll stop looking for reasons to haggle, and move in.

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #86 on: August 24, 2021, 01:35:33 PM »
There is so much to update on that house cosmetically that the money spent on this possible mold issue will seem like an afterthought in 5 years. The worry over mold too to your family will also be dwarfed by smoke from the fires. Stucco is the king of hiding mold and termite damage and even with bore holes you just have to start tearing off the stucco and seeing where the damage gets to.

I don't want to sound dismissive but you gotta take a leap somewhere. This isn't a condo. There are no real guarantees and there is no point in hiring big companies with big overhead to do work a handyman could do just as well. You may be wearing out the seller and they may just boot you and move on to someone else. I would just give them a figure, say you'll stop looking for reasons to haggle, and move in.

Definitely time to come to a quick resolution. This is more succinctly put than my responses from the other day, and exactly what I was trying to get at - if you have an idea of the worst case that you'd face, that can help to set your request for cash from the sellers.

I know dealing with the remediation work puts more risk on you, but this house is still a great deal even with a few extra unknowns.

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #87 on: August 24, 2021, 03:51:38 PM »
There is so much to update on that house cosmetically that the money spent on this possible mold issue will seem like an afterthought in 5 years. The worry over mold too to your family will also be dwarfed by smoke from the fires. Stucco is the king of hiding mold and termite damage and even with bore holes you just have to start tearing off the stucco and seeing where the damage gets to.

I don't want to sound dismissive but you gotta take a leap somewhere. This isn't a condo. There are no real guarantees and there is no point in hiring big companies with big overhead to do work a handyman could do just as well. You may be wearing out the seller and they may just boot you and move on to someone else. I would just give them a figure, say you'll stop looking for reasons to haggle, and move in.

Definitely time to come to a quick resolution. This is more succinctly put than my responses from the other day, and exactly what I was trying to get at - if you have an idea of the worst case that you'd face, that can help to set your request for cash from the sellers.

I know dealing with the remediation work puts more risk on you, but this house is still a great deal even with a few extra unknowns.

I agree. It's time to shit or get off the pot. The number of contractors you've brought through is bonkers. It's a pretty good house. Either buy it or don't.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #88 on: August 26, 2021, 03:31:05 PM »
Quick update. We sent the request for repairs/credits last night asking them to discount the price down to $1.02mm given the issues that have come up. My realtor got a verbal back from them saying they're willing to credit $15k.

cchrissyy

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #89 on: August 26, 2021, 09:29:07 PM »
great!

Metalcat

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #90 on: August 27, 2021, 08:11:29 AM »
So what's next?

former player

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #91 on: August 27, 2021, 08:29:31 AM »
I hope you are going ahead now.  The advantages of having your family living situation settled after all this time will be significant.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #92 on: August 27, 2021, 09:33:54 AM »
Just trying to get some things finalized/settled but I think we're very close. Scheduled close of escrow is 9/3 (next Fri) and the sellers need all the time they can get as they are looking for another place to move to close by. Assuming we close on 9/3 they'll be getting 29 days of rentback. So we aren't going to be able to move in for a while (not until probably mid-October at the soonest due to the outstanding issues we'll have to take care of after they move out)

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2021, 11:55:55 AM »
Quick question but is it best just to use whoever the notary as determined by escrow? Or do you usually even have the choice to choose your own?

cchrissyy

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2021, 12:38:32 PM »
yeah don't make it hard. it's a low cost service so there isn't significant savings to be had. just use whoever they want to send.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2021, 01:15:14 PM »
yeah don't make it hard. it's a low cost service so there isn't significant savings to be had. just use whoever they want to send.

Yea, I wasn't sure how many of those things you can choose (or are in your control) in the closing period. Sounds like escrow pretty much just handles all of it though.

Good to know.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2021, 08:00:11 PM »
Another question regarding credits at closing. Our realtor offered $5.5k of credit back to us - I'm planning to use that to buy down more points (from 2.69% to 2.50%) and it looks like we would pay a couple hundred bucks at close.

It sounds like it might be a little better, at least in the long run, versus taking a principal reduction/credit up front against the overall principal amount (this is basically just an 'extra payment' towards principal in the first month) along with all closing costs covered?

PMJL34

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #97 on: August 31, 2021, 08:56:29 PM »
I personally advise that no one ever buy points. It's a common temptation for first time home owners, but I don't know any experienced buyers who buy points.

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2021, 10:53:31 PM »
I personally advise that no one ever buy points. It's a common temptation for first time home owners, but I don't know any experienced buyers who buy points.

Thanks. Asking around this seems to be the consensus. So in other words, take whatever rate gets you a credit (or enough credit to pay most closing costs, if preferred) but don't "cross-over" into the territory where you're now having to buy the lower rate?

jeromedawg

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Re: Inspection contingency suggestions
« Reply #99 on: September 01, 2021, 09:13:09 AM »
I personally advise that no one ever buy points. It's a common temptation for first time home owners, but I don't know any experienced buyers who buy points.

Thanks. Asking around this seems to be the consensus. So in other words, take whatever rate gets you a credit (or enough credit to pay most closing costs, if preferred) but don't "cross-over" into the territory where you're now having to buy the lower rate?

That's what I would do (and have done several times).  Points just lock in your costs.  If rates drop, you refi w/o any lost cost/payment to the bank.

I've never refi'ed so no idea how that works - I thought you always had to pay for refis though?

In terms of the route we're going, we could opt for a slightly lower rate of 2.625% with a lesser credit (but still a credit that would apply towards principal reduction) but we're just going to leave things alone so as to not further complicate and potentially delay the process. At this point we just want to get everything signed and closed.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!