Author Topic: HOA and my lawn  (Read 14549 times)

chubbybunny

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HOA and my lawn
« on: April 15, 2016, 10:05:44 AM »
I know I'm not the first to experience this, but I still struggle with what to do. Here are the facts. Apologies for the long post, just thought you might enjoy the story.

In 2009 we bought our house in a neighborhood with an HOA.  We loved the house (still do), and decided it was okay because it's a small community, no pool or tennis courts, and the annual dues were only $200 a year.  Everything is great. 

In 2014, the spouse of the HOA president was charged with stealing $5000 from our HOA (no one else was paying attention for years).

We have a new board now, and the pendulum has swung the other way.  It's not all bad though, we actually got our annual dues lowered to $180/year. We're getting lots of letters and reminders stuck to everyone's mailbox.  Letters about no parking in the street, no keeping work trucks in your driveway, and banning flowers around mailboxes (seriously, it's because a mail carrier might get stung by a bee!)

The latest one is really affecting me, and it's my front lawn.  We keep it watered and mowed, the occasional fertilizer treatment.  However, it's maybe only 50% bermuda grass (per HOA rules).  We have a ton of tall pine trees, so the majority of the lawn is shaded and that grass just won't grow.  I personally think the moss and dandelions are really pretty, but apparently my neighbors disagree now.  The letter I just received suggested that since some of my other neighbors pay for a lawn service, maybe we should try that.  Also, my weeds are encroaching onto my neighbors's lawns.

So for MMM advice, do I buy the supplies and save receipts, then fight with the HOA to show I'm making progress?  It hasn't come to threats yet, but aside from tearing out the entire lawn and starting over, it's going to take 2-3 years to get it up to their standards.  I'm not giving some other company $25/month just to get them off my back.  I could try seeding with fescue or another shade grass, but I know that's probably going to look even worse than it does now.  What do you think?

GrowingTheGreen

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2016, 09:40:38 AM »
Keep in mind that these people are usually your neighbors. I think situations like these are usually resolved much faster and favorably when you set up a face to face meeting and approach things in as friendly manner as possible. Being nice goes a long way sometimes. Your mileage may vary but I think it's worth a shot. You may be able to come to a compromise that suits both parties favorably.

monarda

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2016, 04:40:45 PM »
Curious what weeds are encroaching. Dandelions are everywhere and seed will come from quite a distance. Keep them mowed regularly and they won't be as much of a threat. If a creeper, like creeping charlie (ground ivy), you could propose putting put a flower bed along the lot line to form a barrier.
Creeping charlie can be slowed down (a bit) by pulling it by hand. Not a pleasant task, but it works.  I don't think the HOA or your neighbors can or should make you have to use toxic chemicals on your lawn, nor pay for a lawn service.

found this
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/16/11440564/natural-lawns
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 09:40:25 PM by monarda »

PadAdventure

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2016, 06:55:31 PM »
F**k HOAís.  I know thatís not a solution, but Iím with you on this b.s.

We buy into the idea to protect our investment, then live like prisoners because of lack of common sense.

Even when we bust our a**es doing what we consider reasonable and appropriate/responsible.

F**k em.  I know that doesnít help...but I feel your pain.

Feel free to breeze past this post, on to hopefully another helpful one.

But yes, do what you can, keep receipts, and thatís it.

clarkfan1979

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2016, 10:10:34 AM »
I would make the argument that you like doing your own yard work. It's therapeutic for you and you don't want that taken away from you. Try to avoid heated arguments because they are your neighbors. However, I don't think it's possible for them to force you to use a lawn service. At least $25/month doesn't sound that expense. I was thinking more like $50-$100/month is more normal. Maybe the service is giving you a group discount because they service the neighboring lawns.

Cpa Cat

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2016, 10:31:35 AM »
You might consult with a lawn care service or the county extension if you're a DIYer to get some ideas for what to do under your pines. The fact is, you can seed the most expensive shade mix you can find, and grass is still not going to grow under pines.

But, you'll want to put something other than weeds under those trees. Mulch? Moss with no dandelions? Something else that's not a weed, but can handle high-shade, high-acid soil?

Someone thinks your dandelions are blowing onto their yard. They don't realize that your dandelions have no impact whatsoever on their yard, since they are presumably dumping herbicides all over their yards. But I've seen my neighbor out there secretly spraying my dandelions near the property line, like only the ones within a foot of his property are the ones that blow seeds at his property. So this "weed encroachment" thing is a common thought.

Your best bet for immediate peace is to start applying a broadleaf preventative herbacide on a regular schedule to stop the obvious weeds. You might need to drop crabgrass preventer, too, if you've got crabgrass.

If they keep bothering you about grass under your trees after that - just tell them that you've consulted with experts and there is no type of grass that will succeed under pines.

I'm not a big fan of pristine mono-cropped lawns. But you have an HOA, so this is how it is. It's not worth fighting the HOA over dandelions.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 10:33:36 AM by Cpa Cat »

FIRE me

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2016, 08:44:00 PM »

So for MMM advice, do I buy the supplies and save receipts, then fight with the HOA to show I'm making progress?  It hasn't come to threats yet, but aside from tearing out the entire lawn and starting over, it's going to take 2-3 years to get it up to their standards.  I'm not giving some other company $25/month just to get them off my back.  I could try seeding with fescue or another shade grass, but I know that's probably going to look even worse than it does now.  What do you think?

Weed B Gone is cheap and effective against dandelions and many other weeds. Be sure to follow the label directions. I take care of my own lawn, and mine looks better than the ones that use a lawn service.

Also, don't try seeding and using weed killer at the same time. The weed killer will kill grass seedlings.

greaper007

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2016, 08:49:53 PM »

So for MMM advice, do I buy the supplies and save receipts, then fight with the HOA to show I'm making progress?  It hasn't come to threats yet, but aside from tearing out the entire lawn and starting over, it's going to take 2-3 years to get it up to their standards.  I'm not giving some other company $25/month just to get them off my back.  I could try seeding with fescue or another shade grass, but I know that's probably going to look even worse than it does now.  What do you think?

Weed B Gone is cheap and effective against dandelions and many other weeds. Be sure to follow the label directions. I take care of my own lawn, and mine looks better than the ones that use a lawn service.

Also, don't try seeding and using weed killer at the same time. The weed killer will kill grass seedlings.

Isn't weed b gone essentially the same as agent orange?

I'm getting rid of the grass in my front yard and replacing it with raised garden beds.    Any chance you can get away with that?

MDM

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2016, 09:32:46 PM »
Isn't weed b gone essentially the same as agent orange?

In short, no.

K-ice

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 10:38:43 AM »
I have & love the "moss lawn" under my pine trees.

My caught my helpful FIL sprinkling grass seed a few years ago. I was like noooo. The moss is green & doesn't need mowing. I would encourage it.

http://m.wikihow.com/Grow-Moss

I've never tried but I have heard about the moss blender trick before.

As for the Dandelions I would keep all chemicals away.

Once a week just try to remove by hand.
Make sure your Neighbours see you working ;)

Then make up a dandelion pie and share with your neighbours.

http://www.grouprecipes.com/98135/swiss-dandelion-pie.html

My last comment was only slightly sarcastic. You can replace cooked spinach with Dandelion leaves in most recipes. Quite bitter so maybe start 1/2 & 1/2.

dougules

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2016, 12:00:39 PM »
Ugh.  I could never live with an HOA.  Our city ordinances are enough. 

Personally I think the whole monoculture lawn is kind of silly.  It's a leftover from trying to live like English nobility.  I wish I had little or no yard, but backward city zoning made it hard to build with smaller lots back when my neighborhood was developed. 

The trees make more sense than the grass if you live in a place that's naturally forest like me.  Also IMHO I think wildflowers and moss are more appealing than a monotonous sheet of green.  Propping up a non-native invasive species, Bermuda Grass, with harsh chemicals sounds crazy in the 21st century, too. 

BlueHouse

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 12:16:27 PM »
I would (very respectfully so you don't push the crazy HOA people over the edge) ask if anyone on the HOA has ever considered returning to natural landscaping on some percentage (or all) of the front lawns?  You never know, they may be inclined to allow it if you propose a nice design or if it attracts honeybees or monarch butterflies.  Ask if that's a possibility? 

Jack

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2016, 01:11:13 PM »
You might consult with a lawn care service or the county extension if you're a DIYer to get some ideas for what to do under your pines. The fact is, you can seed the most expensive shade mix you can find, and grass is still not going to grow under pines.

But, you'll want to put something other than weeds under those trees. Mulch? Moss with no dandelions? Something else that's not a weed, but can handle high-shade, high-acid soil?

+1. If you have shade, lawn just isn't gonna work no matter what you do. Plant some shrubs and perennials and such. (Personally, I'm partial to hostas, ferns and native azaleas.) If you want useful stuff (i.e., edibles), you can also go for leafy herbs like thyme and rosemary and small trees like paw-paw and serviceberry. Rabbiteye blueberries could be a good choice for the areas that aren't sunny enough for grass, but still pretty bright.

http://www.walterreeves.com/landscaping/plants-for-shade/
http://www.caes.uga.edu/extension/dekalb/documents/ShadePlantsfortheAtlantaArea.pdf

SwordGuy

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2016, 01:56:15 PM »
Good luck with the HOA.   I am totally unwilling to live in one.  To quote Benjamin Franklin:

Quote
"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

That's how I view HOAs and their ability to "protect" my investment.

The best advice I can give you is to learn the rules.  Read them very, very carefully.  Known them better than those in charge.

You might find out that the ones giving you problems are themselves violating an expensive rule and they might be willing to live and let live.  :)

You might find an alternative solution that meets the rules.  The rules might be so badly written that you can do what you want.  It's not uncommon that the rules don't actually say what people think they do - often because they never really read the rules carefully.

Be nice and friendly unless it's time to not be nice and friendly.


abhe8

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2016, 02:19:15 PM »
Move?

greaper007

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2016, 03:54:07 PM »
Isn't weed b gone essentially the same as agent orange?

In short, no.

Hmmm, the largest active ingredient in Weed B Gone is 2 4 D.   Which is also one of the largest active ingredients in Agent Orange.    It's also a potential carcinogen.    I think I'd rather mulch and weed than spray that poop near my family.   

MDM

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2016, 05:51:53 PM »
Isn't weed b gone essentially the same as agent orange?
In short, no.
Hmmm, the largest active ingredient in Weed B Gone is 2 4 D.   Which is also one of the largest active ingredients in Agent Orange.    It's also a potential carcinogen.    I think I'd rather mulch and weed than spray that poop near my family.
Depends what you mean by "essentially the same".

One could say ethanol and methanol are "essentially the same," but drinking one is a common adult pastime while if the two are mixed and consumed, death (or "merely" blindness) is a likely result.

One could say H2O and H2O2 are "essentially the same" but one is necessary for life while the other can be used as rocket fuel and will cause tanned leather to burst into flame.

Or one could say those things are "not essentially the same," which is how I'd categorize 2,4-D vs. the mixture of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T (which contained a bit of dioxin) that was called Agent Orange.

One is certainly free to gauge for oneself what is a risk and what is not. 

ETA: correct typo 2,4-T -> 2,4,5-T
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 08:42:19 PM by MDM »

monarda

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2016, 08:39:07 PM »
Isn't weed b gone essentially the same as agent orange?
In short, no.
Hmmm, the largest active ingredient in Weed B Gone is 2 4 D.   Which is also one of the largest active ingredients in Agent Orange.    It's also a potential carcinogen.    I think I'd rather mulch and weed than spray that poop near my family.
Depends what you mean by "essentially the same".

One could say ethanol and methanol are "essentially the same," but drinking one is a common adult pastime while if the two are mixed and consumed, death (or "merely" blindness) is a likely result.

One could say H2O and H2O2 are "essentially the same" but one is necessary for life while the other can be used as rocket fuel and will cause tanned leather to burst into flame.

Or one could say those things are "not essentially the same," which is how I'd categorize 2,4-D vs. the mixture of 2,4-D and 2,4-T (which contained a bit of dioxin) that was called Agent Orange.

One is certainly free to gauge for oneself what is a risk and what is not. 

Completing the thought - Agent Orange wasn't toxic because of the herbicide, it was because of the dioxin.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2016, 06:19:45 AM »
I'd consider putting some rocks or mulch in around the trees as a start. Our yard basically has no grass. We basically don't have any grass to take care of, and it's great. I don't miss mowing even a little bit.

NoNonsenseLandlord

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2016, 06:39:11 AM »
Hire a lawn service.  After one year, you will notice a HUGE difference.  The annual weeds will be gone.  It shows you are working with the HOA.  It will not cost that much more then doing it yourself.

You can do your own mowing, let them do the fertilizer and weed treatments.

monarda

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2016, 09:22:14 AM »
+1 to what Jack said above. A lawn service will be a waste of money IF you have deep shade and acid soil, because the lawn isn't going to grow no matter what you do.  Go ahead and consult with some lawn professionals. Reputable ones should tell you the same thing.   

But, OP, how many pines are you talking about? Do you rake up the needles regularly? How much of the lawn isn't under the pine canopy? More than half? 

I speak from experience, we have a deeply shaded lawn. Even the deep shade grass mixes, or the 'extra tough' grass mixes don't grow.  Part of the problem is that the large trees take the available water. There are many pretty perennials that will grow well in 'dry shade'. Try some big-root geraniums or wild ginger around the base of the trees.

Miss Piggy

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2016, 10:06:52 AM »
I can't help but think that the bigger issue is the weeds and not the shaded empty/grassless spots. OP, you say you like the looks of the dandelions. But come on now... for anybody who wants their lawn to look good, dandelions (and other weeds) are a nuisance. I'm not one of your neighbors, but I'd be willing to bet that if you got the weeds under control, they'd be 98% satisfied.

FIRE me

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2016, 10:40:39 AM »
Isn't weed b gone essentially the same as agent orange?

Are you joking?

greaper007

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2016, 01:02:44 PM »
Isn't weed b gone essentially the same as agent orange?
In short, no.
Hmmm, the largest active ingredient in Weed B Gone is 2 4 D.   Which is also one of the largest active ingredients in Agent Orange.    It's also a potential carcinogen.    I think I'd rather mulch and weed than spray that poop near my family.
Depends what you mean by "essentially the same".

One could say ethanol and methanol are "essentially the same," but drinking one is a common adult pastime while if the two are mixed and consumed, death (or "merely" blindness) is a likely result.

One could say H2O and H2O2 are "essentially the same" but one is necessary for life while the other can be used as rocket fuel and will cause tanned leather to burst into flame.

Or one could say those things are "not essentially the same," which is how I'd categorize 2,4-D vs. the mixture of 2,4-D and 2,4-T (which contained a bit of dioxin) that was called Agent Orange.

One is certainly free to gauge for oneself what is a risk and what is not. 

Completing the thought - Agent Orange wasn't toxic because of the herbicide, it was because of the dioxin.

The WHO still classifies 2-4-d as a potential carcinogen.   That's toxic enough for me.    I don't really care if it's more acutely toxic when combined with other substances.    I'd rather not take any chances just so my property looks like something from the English countryside.

Otherwise, I understand your argument from a stricter chemistry sense.   However, I don't think we can make the argument that water is to rocket fuel as weed b gone is to agent orange.   And we're getting into semantics, I'll rephrase my position  "Isn't 2-4-d one of the active ingredients in Agent Orange?"

chubbybunny

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2016, 01:10:58 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.  I agree that I've been lax in taking care of the lawn.  I'm not trying to fight with the HOA, just get them off my back with as little expense as possible.  The $25/month turned out to be an annual charge with only 4 visits, so it actually worked out to $75 per treatment. Aerating and seeding would cost extra. 

I went outside at 2:30pm today and my lawn is 100% shaded.  It gets a few hours in the morning and that's it.  I live on a cul de sac and there's a triangle of natural woods separating us from the main road.  The rest of the neighborhood does not have this problem.  Others on my street have bright green lawns and lots of sun. Fortunately, there's only about 1/2 of my front lawn that can be seen from the street.  Most of my lawn has become one big planting bed with pine needles and pine cones.  I've been adding more hostas each year (aka rabbit food).  It's really only the part closest to the street that gets any sun at all, so I've still got grass there.

I really can't see paying someone else since there's no way to get amazing results.  I went up to the store and spent $60 on supplies, which should get me to summer.  I'm going to save the receipts and share those with someone at the HOA if I get a second letter.  I am going to put some seed down now and water it in really good, along with the fertilizer and ironite. They'll have to wait until August before I can put the weed control stuff down. 

BlueHouse

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2016, 01:22:03 PM »
Bamboo.  Your neighbor will then relish the days when dandelions were the problem. 

Jack

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2016, 01:37:17 PM »
I went outside at 2:30pm today and my lawn is 100% shaded.  It gets a few hours in the morning and that's it.  I live on a cul de sac and there's a triangle of natural woods separating us from the main road.  The rest of the neighborhood does not have this problem.  Others on my street have bright green lawns and lots of sun. Fortunately, there's only about 1/2 of my front lawn that can be seen from the street.  Most of my lawn has become one big planting bed with pine needles and pine cones.  I've been adding more hostas each year (aka rabbit food).  It's really only the part closest to the street that gets any sun at all, so I've still got grass there.

Yeah, grass is a lost cause. Rip it out in favor of more planting bed. Otherwise, the closest you're going to be able to get to turf is mondo grass.

The HOA can't complain about weeds in the lawn when the lawn itself doesn't exist.

greaper007

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2016, 01:43:35 PM »
Am I the only one that finds very green lawns to be ugly and disconcerting?    It reminds me of recreations of 50s sound stage lots.   Granted, I'm in Colorado and not Georgia, and we have water issues to consider.    All I can think of when I see these lawns is potentially unsafe chemicals and water that should be going to food and basic needs.

chubbybunny

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2016, 02:04:02 PM »
Since we're on the topic of regional differences...  When we first moved here I drove a prius.  I actually had a neighbor across the street who came out and said,"Oh, you're one of THOSE people."   Not sure I would want to try arguing against the environmental hazards of a mono-culture lawn.  Pretty sure mono-culture is exactly what people around here are going for.  Now I drive a leaf and don't get the weird stares nearly as much.

With that said, they're still mostly pretty nice neighbors!  We have a nice hedge on either side of our property, so there are no creeping weeds attacking my immediate neighbors.  I think the letter was probably from someone who lives on the other end of the street and just drove by. 

Parents also drive their kids around here for trick-or-treat. I never saw that before I moved here.  That bothers me on so many levels. We're in a subdivision, not a country road where houses are a 1/4 mile apart.  The one night of the year when we can all get out and talk to each other, and lots of parents wait in their SUV (on their cell phone) with the trunk up while the kids jump out at each house.  So sad...

dougules

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2016, 02:10:35 PM »
Am I the only one that finds very green lawns to be ugly and disconcerting?    It reminds me of recreations of 50s sound stage lots.   Granted, I'm in Colorado and not Georgia, and we have water issues to consider.    All I can think of when I see these lawns is potentially unsafe chemicals and water that should be going to food and basic needs.

No, I find them to be very Stepford-ish and make no sense, too.  And a grass lawn makes even less sense in Georgia than it does in Colorado.  Colorado is naturally grassland, but the South is basically the rainforest for half the year.   I am constantly mowing and cutting down little trees that can get surprisingly big in a couple of months.  The most sensible lawn here (after growing your own food of course) is all trees. 

MDM

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2016, 02:41:24 PM »
Am I the only one that finds very green lawns to be ugly and disconcerting?
You are probably in the minority, but so what?

Tastes vary - otherwise Baskin-Robbins would make only one flavor of ice cream.

greaper007

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2016, 02:53:34 PM »
Am I the only one that finds very green lawns to be ugly and disconcerting?
You are probably in the minority, but so what?

Tastes vary - otherwise Baskin-Robbins would make only one flavor of ice cream.

Hmm, I figured I'd be in the majority on this forum.    I mean I get that some people like chocolate and some people like vanilla. However, I think most people wouldn't be pro fertilizer induced gulf of Mexico dead zone or pro dandelion.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 03:44:35 PM by greaper007 »

Jack

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2016, 08:13:35 AM »
Since we're on the topic of regional differences...  When we first moved here I drove a prius.  I actually had a neighbor across the street who came out and said,"Oh, you're one of THOSE people."

Let me guess... you live somewhere between East Cobb and John's Creek?

(Not that it will immediately help you, but there are areas of Georgia with less silly attitudes. In my neighborhood, "THOSE people" are in the majority.)

Bigsacks

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2016, 10:46:45 AM »
HOA.....a great way to not own your own house, your own life and have to put up with a bunch of bullshit....

MsPeacock

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2016, 03:12:48 PM »
Am I the only one that finds very green lawns to be ugly and disconcerting?    It reminds me of recreations of 50s sound stage lots.   Granted, I'm in Colorado and not Georgia, and we have water issues to consider.    All I can think of when I see these lawns is potentially unsafe chemicals and water that should be going to food and basic needs.

I don't like them either because they can only be achieved with chemical weed killers, fertilizer, and excess watering (mostly). I have a decent natural lawn that looks good (IMO) but not that weird hyper real green. And there are weeds.

PP seems like mulch and ground cover or more hostas are the way to go. You can probably get hostas on free cycle since they can be dug up and devided into many more plants when they are large.

K-ice

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2016, 08:54:58 PM »
Am I the only one that finds very green lawns to be ugly and disconcerting?   

I don't find them ugly. Plush think green lawn. Feeling that squishiness under your bare feet. The coolness lawn provides is also attractive.

But I'm romanticizing and can't remember being on a lawn like that.

So I will agree that I do find it disconcerting. Especially considering the water & chemicals it takes.

Where I live most people can have a decent lawn for about 1/2 the summer without watering. Then it gets too dry late July August.


My attitude with my own yard is to pull the weeds I can. Lots of it is a shady mossy mess.
Another part is an unruly bed that was supposed to be a native garden but it's an overgrown mess. 
I might turn it under soon but I do enjoy the odd thing that blooms in it.
I water my small flower pots & "garden" with collected rain water. Garden is a generous term for the odd "square foot garden" section I try to tame in the beds.

If I could water my lawn with grey water I might do a bit more. But I just let it brown.

I'm so lucky I'm not in an HOA. And my Neighbour is more "natural" than me so my yard looks not bad.

I do shake my head when I see a thick green yard and I know it hasn't rained. But I still "like" the look & feel of it.






BlueHouse

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2016, 09:07:21 PM »
I think green lawns of grass are very wasteful and they steal all the water needed for trees and plants. I just planted some creeping Veronica in my median strip. I hope the HOA just thinks they're weeds otherwise, they may make me pull them. But weeds, they will ignore.

JLR

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Re: HOA and my lawn
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2016, 09:15:34 PM »
Where we used to live the public ovals in town were perfect, weedless expanses of green grass. A lot of work, water and chemicals made that possible. Here, the ovals are 50% dandelions so I was very surprised to notice that the council managed to get grass to grow right up under the pine trees. It seems that regular raking of the needles really does make a big difference.