Author Topic: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants  (Read 6501 times)

Alim Nassor

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Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« on: May 30, 2017, 04:12:18 PM »
Hi,  We have a house here in small town Texas that has 2 good tenants in it.  These ladies are a same sex couple.  The neighbor on one side has been harassing them for some time, shouting homophobic slurs and insults, throwing trash in their yard and such.  She has installed big bright outdoor lights that shine into their windows at night and today, a FedEx package to my tenants was delivered to her house by mistake and she refused to give it to them or to FedEx.  The police finally came and got it from the ladies daughter while the harasser was gone.
I don't want to lose these tenants.  What remedies are available to me or the tenants to get this psycho bitch to back off?

ysette9

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 04:25:37 PM »
Can you talk to the police on their behalf about the harassment they are enduring? This is not acceptable behavior at all.

Sydneystache

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 06:57:52 PM »
Are you allowed to video her? "Smile, you're on video."

Ask your tenants everytime she goes postal to capture it and after each week show the footage to the cops. Or youtube it. 😐

SwordGuy

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 07:25:38 PM »
Do not make the mistake of being nice or expecting the psycho neighbor to become reasonable.

Go hunting for bear, just because it's the right thing to do.

Find out where she works.

Send the video of her antics to her management.

Send it to the police.  And the newspaper.  And the tv stations.  And the radio stations.  And your city council.  And your state representative.   And the city attorney.   And the federal attorney.  And the ACLU.   And the Southern Poverty Law Center.   

If that doesn't work, send it again and expand the list.

Just because it's the right thing to do.

Sadly, I can't legally recommend torching the bigot's house and burning it down, preferably with her in it.   

And while you're at it, review your insurance.

solon

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 08:18:16 PM »
I think you should just calmly explain to her that her behavior is not allowed at your property, and if she can't control herself she will have to move somewhere else.

Alim Nassor

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2017, 09:00:48 PM »
I did talk to the police, and they advised them to photograph and record as much behavior as they can, and there is the possibility that harassment charges can be filed.  I also asked what I could do, since it could affect me too.   They recommended I speak with the JP in the morning.

misshathaway

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 09:04:50 AM »
This is going to be as popular as the thread awhile back where a squatter moved into a guy's rental property. If you post the video does PB have the means to sue you? Also, she could ask YouTube to remove it.

calimom

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2017, 09:33:49 AM »
Usually there is nothing the police can or will do until an actual crime (like being attacked or shot) is committed. But in many jurisdictions, this is considered a hate crime based on this crazy woman's homophobia.

What a whack job. Sorry your tenants - who are just trying to live their lives - are dealing with this. You sound like a good landlord.

Vindicated

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 09:37:50 AM »
I hope this gets sorted out for you and your tenants.  Please keep us updated.

Fishindude

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 09:40:39 AM »
Back in the good old days, a good old country azz whooping would take care of things like this.

$200k

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2017, 10:27:33 AM »
This is what I would do.

Send notice to the harasser that they are violating the covenant of quiet enjoyment, which is typically a common law principle that is read into every lease.  If it is actually in the lease, all the better.  Tell the harasser in writing that if they harass the tenants again, you will start the eviction process immediately.

If the harasser harasses the tenants again, evict them.  Hire an eviction attorney and get it done and move on. 

If the harasser stops, then do nothing.


My bad.  Thought harasser was the tenant.  Good thing there is a lot of other good advice in the thread!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 04:41:08 PM by $200k »

BabyShark

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 10:39:33 AM »
This is what I would do.

Send notice to the harasser that they are violating the covenant of quiet enjoyment, which is typically a common law principle that is read into every lease.  If it is actually in the lease, all the better.  Tell the harasser in writing that if they harass the tenants again, you will start the eviction process immediately.

If the harasser harasses the tenants again, evict them.  Hire an eviction attorney and get it done and move on. 

If the harasser stops, then do nothing.

I think the harasser is a neighbor of the tenants, not one of OP's tenants.

And I agree with everybody else.  Document, document, document.  This harassment is unacceptable, but you probably do need to worry about your tenants leaving, I wouldn't blame them.

Candace

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2017, 10:43:16 AM »
Ditto to $200k. Is a quiet enjoyment clause in the lease? If not, you should amend your lease for future use, and do as others have suggested re hate crimes etc.

If there is something in the lease that you can apply to the harasser, then you should evict her after whatever warnings are necessary, but ASAP.


Oops, harasser isn't the OP's tenant. Well, all you have then is the police, unless you can talk to the harasser yourself. And possibly sending around embarrassing videos or documents per what SwordGuy said, as long as you don't do anything illegal yourself.

Is the neighbor a renter or owner? If she's a renter, perhaps you can track down *her* landlord to see if they will help.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 10:47:45 AM by Candace »

damnedbee

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2017, 10:50:04 AM »
Along with the other suggestions, you might try to take advantage of public shaming. Any way to notify other neighbors that this is happening and gain community support for your tenants? If enough of them band together to show support (e.g., pride flag in the window, tolerance sign, kind words), that might shame the bigot into cooling off.

dougules

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2017, 10:55:35 AM »
Do not make the mistake of being nice or expecting the psycho neighbor to become reasonable.

Go hunting for bear, just because it's the right thing to do.

Find out where she works.

Send the video of her antics to her management.

Send it to the police.  And the newspaper.  And the tv stations.  And the radio stations.  And your city council.  And your state representative.   And the city attorney.   And the federal attorney.  And the ACLU.   And the Southern Poverty Law Center.   

If that doesn't work, send it again and expand the list.

Just because it's the right thing to do.

Sadly, I can't legally recommend torching the bigot's house and burning it down, preferably with her in it.   

And while you're at it, review your insurance.

+1  You might also give Lambda Legal and the Human Rights Campaign a call and see if they can give you any suggestions or help. 

And how much would it cost to install a nice big privacy fence between them?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 11:00:02 AM by dougules »

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2017, 11:01:06 AM »
Are you allowed to video her? "Smile, you're on video."

Ask your tenants everytime she goes postal to capture it and after each week show the footage to the cops. Or youtube it. 😐

I have a friend in a same-sex relationship that was going through exactly what OP describes.  Both homes were owned, not rented.  This is the path they went down.  They had video cams set up 24/7 in front/back yard.  It went on for years and eventually it just took moving out to "fix" (or hide) the issue.

dougules

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2017, 11:17:39 AM »
Is the bigotted neighbor the owner or a tenant?  If she's also renting, you might talk to her landlord. 

Dicey

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2017, 11:29:47 AM »
Wow! You have to make a decision. Will you stand by your tenants and help them fight this fight on behalf of people who love each other without regard for "boundaries"? If so, ask them how they'd like to proceed. Three against one is a good start. Standing up to bigotry is always the right thing to do, but you must make sure your tenants are comfortable with whatever course of action you (plural) decide upon.

The neighbor is just a garden variety bully, and the way to deal with them is with any means available, including media of all types. I'm not sure going to her employer is legally defensible, so I'd use the threat of it, if you thought it was helpful, before I'd actually do it. Also, is she a church goer? That's another avenue worth exploring.

My heart breaks for your tenants.

Sidebar: We have a house for rent. Two women want to join households and rent from us. One's application says the other is a "roommate", the other says she's a "friend". I told the agent to tell them we'd decide on the basis of their income, credit scores and references only. If they're partners, it's fine with us. It's none of my business if they sleep in one bedroom or two. Sheesh, who cares?

DCW

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2017, 02:54:16 PM »
Police Officer here. In addition to documenting what you can for possible harassment charges, your tenants could also look into filing a restraining order (here in Indiana they're called Protective Orders) against the neighbor. The County Clerk is a good place to start in reference to doing this. From the information you've given, they would easily be granted one here in Indiana. If there is an order in place, the neighbor would not be allowed to have any contact whatsoever (in person, phone, internet, email, mail, etc...) with your tenants. Breaking the order would be a swift and immediate trip to jail and an Invasion of Privacy (misdemeanor) charge. Multiple convictions of Invasion of Privacy could result in a Stalking charge (Felony). This is Indiana Law, so take it for what it's worth. It would also be a good idea to find out if this neighbor is a homeowner or renter. If she rents, then a conversation to her landlord might be effective. He or she could have the tenant evicted. My community just established a "good neighbor ordinance", which helps landlords evict problem tenants for various issues. Good luck to you and your tenants.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 02:55:57 PM by DCW »

Sydneystache

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 03:12:41 PM »
Are you allowed to video her? "Smile, you're on video."

Ask your tenants everytime she goes postal to capture it and after each week show the footage to the cops. Or youtube it. 😐

I have a friend in a same-sex relationship that was going through exactly what OP describes.  Both homes were owned, not rented.  This is the path they went down.  They had video cams set up 24/7 in front/back yard.  It went on for years and eventually it just took moving out to "fix" (or hide) the issue.

Sad your friend had to move out. Injustice is hard to swallow in any form.

dougules

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2017, 03:40:07 PM »
Are you allowed to video her? "Smile, you're on video."

Ask your tenants everytime she goes postal to capture it and after each week show the footage to the cops. Or youtube it. 😐

I have a friend in a same-sex relationship that was going through exactly what OP describes.  Both homes were owned, not rented.  This is the path they went down.  They had video cams set up 24/7 in front/back yard.  It went on for years and eventually it just took moving out to "fix" (or hide) the issue.

Sad your friend had to move out. Injustice is hard to swallow in any form.

It hits a little close to home for me.  Somebody left a photocopy of page out of the bible on our mailbox.  It looked like just a random page, but it turns it contains one of the handful of verses that folks like to cherry-pick out of the others that say things like love thy neighbor as thyself and God is love.  We've been in the house for almost 8 years. 

Dicey

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2017, 04:37:47 PM »
To add to what Spartana said, I believe you have to tell the person they're being recorded. Start every video with "I'm recording you now, ma'am". even if it's painfully obvious. That'll help keep your footage admissible. Then fingers crossed that you don't need it.

As for the bible page, shame on them! So sad that people can be so small minded when the same force (whatever you believe in) made us all.

Alim Nassor

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 07:56:29 PM »
Thanks for all the advice.  I have given them the advice the cops gave me.  Document everything.  Call, every time.   I'm reluctant to approach the neighbor personally, that could possibly goad her into being a pain in the ass to any tenants ever.    The police are aware of the extent of the problem now.   I haven't heard anything since the other day, hopefully the police coming for the FedEx package made an impression.   I will ask them how it's going when they drop off rent this week.

We have a house about 2 blocks away that will be coming available in a few months.  I told them they are welcome to move into it, if they decide not to stay.  They were happy to hear that, as it is a 3 bedroom and they are wanting something bigger.

Sydneystache

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 08:21:44 PM »
You have great tenants and you're a great landlord - karma will get the neighbour back.

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2017, 08:33:32 PM »
Thanks for all the advice.  I have given them the advice the cops gave me.  Document everything.  Call, every time.   I'm reluctant to approach the neighbor personally, that could possibly goad her into being a pain in the ass to any tenants ever.    The police are aware of the extent of the problem now.   I haven't heard anything since the other day, hopefully the police coming for the FedEx package made an impression.   I will ask them how it's going when they drop off rent this week.

We have a house about 2 blocks away that will be coming available in a few months.  I told them they are welcome to move into it, if they decide not to stay.  They were happy to hear that, as it is a 3 bedroom and they are wanting something bigger.

Wow. Sounds like you are a really wonderful landlord. I hope, whichever place they live in, they're great and long term tenants for you. =)

Alim Nassor

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2017, 08:42:03 PM »
Thanks for the compliments.   I do want them to be happy, but I have to say, I'm also looking out for myself.  They are never late, I've had one minor repair to deal with in a years time, the house sparkles and they are all anyone could hope for in a tenant.  I don't want to lose them.

dougules

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2017, 08:58:14 PM »
Thanks for the compliments.   I do want them to be happy, but I have to say, I'm also looking out for myself.  They are never late, I've had one minor repair to deal with in a years time, the house sparkles and they are all anyone could hope for in a tenant.  I don't want to lose them.

Still, though, it's really nice to see somebody supportive in small-town Texas. 

Honestly, on some level I hope that your tenants stick it out instead of giving evil lady what she wants.  That may not be realistic, especially with the offer of somewhere better to live, but it would be hard to let the bitch win. 

Larsg

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2017, 01:27:59 AM »
Do you know if this woman is an owner or is she also renting. If renting, contacting the owner of the property might be one avenue as she is harassing your tenant and disturbing their ability to live peacefully which may be cause for eviction or at least the owner can start documenting these problems with your help.

Best of luck in this difficult situation.

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2017, 04:33:50 PM »
What if your tenants would ever leave because of the neighbour's harassment? You could probably win a civil lawsuit against that neighbour. Her harassment will have cost you significant lost rental income.

Go speak to the neighbour. Make it clear you won't be intimidated. Tell her how you would sue her in case the above ever happens.

Bluff. Make it seem as if you are 100% FI already. Make it clear to her that if she manages to harass these people out of the house:
* The next occupants will be a black secular jewish atheist lesbian socialist couple.
* with a heavy metal musician as their son.
* You will build them a bright pink studio in the garden as close to her side as possible, with a huge builtin speaker system.
* Ok, not actually that, but your lesbian niece and her girlfriend will be the replacement tenants. For free. Because you want to support them.

Have your tenants check if there is any thing, even the smallest thing, out of order with the neighbour's garden. A tree too close to the border between the plots for example.

Show her irrational anger, even if you're just disgusted by her behaviour.

Play good cop/bad cop. Have your wife or significant other go in after you got seriously angry at her.

Let her know that you might be able to help her move out and sell her house. Tell her you know people that might be interested in buying in the area. Make a lowball offer yourself.

Whatever you do, make it clear a lesbian couple is there to stay no matter what she's trying.

Dicey

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2017, 07:01:20 PM »
What if your tenants would ever leave because of the neighbour's harassment? You could probably win a civil lawsuit against that neighbour. Her harassment will have cost you significant lost rental income.

Go speak to the neighbour. Make it clear you won't be intimidated. Tell her how you would sue her in case the above ever happens.

Bluff. Make it seem as if you are 100% FI already. Make it clear to her that if she manages to harass these people out of the house:
* The next occupants will be a black secular jewish atheist lesbian socialist couple.
* with a heavy metal musician as their son.
* You will build them a bright pink studio in the garden as close to her side as possible, with a huge builtin speaker system.
* Ok, not actually that, but your lesbian niece and her girlfriend will be the replacement tenants. For free. Because you want to support them.

Have your tenants check if there is any thing, even the smallest thing, out of order with the neighbour's garden. A tree too close to the border between the plots for example.

Show her irrational anger, even if you're just disgusted by her behaviour.

Play good cop/bad cop. Have your wife or significant other go in after you got seriously angry at her.

Let her know that you might be able to help her move out and sell her house. Tell her you know people that might be interested in buying in the area. Make a lowball offer yourself.

Whatever you do, make it clear a lesbian couple is there to stay no matter what she's trying.

/\ Heh, heh, I like the way you think. /\

FrugalFisherman10

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2017, 08:13:28 AM »
Are you allowed to video her? "Smile, you're on video."

Ask your tenants everytime she goes postal to capture it and after each week show the footage to the cops. Or youtube it. 😐

I have a friend in a same-sex relationship that was going through exactly what OP describes.  Both homes were owned, not rented.  This is the path they went down.  They had video cams set up 24/7 in front/back yard.  It went on for years and eventually it just took moving out to "fix" (or hide) the issue.

Sad your friend had to move out. Injustice is hard to swallow in any form.

It hits a little close to home for me.  Somebody left a photocopy of page out of the bible on our mailbox.  It looked like just a random page, but it turns it contains one of the handful of verses that folks like to cherry-pick out of the others that say things like love thy neighbor as thyself and God is love.  We've been in the house for almost 8 years.
As for the OPs situation, I hate to hear that, and I hope things get resolved in the best way possible. i.e. It'd be really sweet if she stopped being such a PB, stopped being a bigot, and started loving those around her.

To dougules, as for your comment about the bible page, I think I'm missing some context but I want to understand better what you were saying. At first I read this as you were friends with the couple who moved out that spork was talking about...but I realized that doesn't sound right. so, are you in a same-sex relationship yourself, and someone is leaving these things on your mailbox? If so, that sucks. But also, and maybe I'm not firing on all cylinders this monday morning, but as a Christian myself, I'm missing what is being implied by your neighbors.
Do you feel that they were trying to shame you by using those specific bible verses/references? In response to them, I don't see how they could say those could be interpreted to imply anything about homosexuality.


Alim Nassor

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2017, 04:58:44 PM »
Are you allowed to video her? "Smile, you're on video."

Ask your tenants everytime she goes postal to capture it and after each week show the footage to the cops. Or youtube it. 😐

I have a friend in a same-sex relationship that was going through exactly what OP describes.  Both homes were owned, not rented.  This is the path they went down.  They had video cams set up 24/7 in front/back yard.  It went on for years and eventually it just took moving out to "fix" (or hide) the issue.

Sad your friend had to move out. Injustice is hard to swallow in any form.

It hits a little close to home for me.  Somebody left a photocopy of page out of the bible on our mailbox.  It looked like just a random page, but it turns it contains one of the handful of verses that folks like to cherry-pick out of the others that say things like love thy neighbor as thyself and God is love.  We've been in the house for almost 8 years.
As for the OPs situation, I hate to hear that, and I hope things get resolved in the best way possible. i.e. It'd be really sweet if she stopped being such a PB, stopped being a bigot, and started loving those around her.

To dougules, as for your comment about the bible page, I think I'm missing some context but I want to understand better what you were saying. At first I read this as you were friends with the couple who moved out that spork was talking about...but I realized that doesn't sound right. so, are you in a same-sex relationship yourself, and someone is leaving these things on your mailbox? If so, that sucks. But also, and maybe I'm not firing on all cylinders this monday morning, but as a Christian myself, I'm missing what is being implied by your neighbors.
Do you feel that they were trying to shame you by using those specific bible verses/references? In response to them, I don't see how they could say those could be interpreted to imply anything about homosexuality.


I'm going to guess that Leviticus was featured prominently.  What most people who use those versus seem to always forget is that Christ did away with almost all the Old Testament laws.  Otherwise I'd be in deep doo-doo every time I went to Red Lobster.

dougules

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2017, 10:50:43 AM »
Are you allowed to video her? "Smile, you're on video."

Ask your tenants everytime she goes postal to capture it and after each week show the footage to the cops. Or youtube it. 😐

I have a friend in a same-sex relationship that was going through exactly what OP describes.  Both homes were owned, not rented.  This is the path they went down.  They had video cams set up 24/7 in front/back yard.  It went on for years and eventually it just took moving out to "fix" (or hide) the issue.

Sad your friend had to move out. Injustice is hard to swallow in any form.

It hits a little close to home for me.  Somebody left a photocopy of page out of the bible on our mailbox.  It looked like just a random page, but it turns it contains one of the handful of verses that folks like to cherry-pick out of the others that say things like love thy neighbor as thyself and God is love.  We've been in the house for almost 8 years.
As for the OPs situation, I hate to hear that, and I hope things get resolved in the best way possible. i.e. It'd be really sweet if she stopped being such a PB, stopped being a bigot, and started loving those around her.

To dougules, as for your comment about the bible page, I think I'm missing some context but I want to understand better what you were saying. At first I read this as you were friends with the couple who moved out that spork was talking about...but I realized that doesn't sound right. so, are you in a same-sex relationship yourself, and someone is leaving these things on your mailbox? If so, that sucks. But also, and maybe I'm not firing on all cylinders this monday morning, but as a Christian myself, I'm missing what is being implied by your neighbors.
Do you feel that they were trying to shame you by using those specific bible verses/references? In response to them, I don't see how they could say those could be interpreted to imply anything about homosexuality.


I'm going to guess that Leviticus was featured prominently.  What most people who use those versus seem to always forget is that Christ did away with almost all the Old Testament laws.  Otherwise I'd be in deep doo-doo every time I went to Red Lobster.

It was actually that verse in Romans. 

We're not related to the OP's tenants in TX.  We're in AL. 

And yes, DH and I got married in California when it was legalized there.  We've been together and in the current house since 2009.  Nobody seems to have cared before.  It bothered me a little after it happened, but I'm just going to shrug it off.  Really the best way to respond is just to ignore it. 

Alim Nassor

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2017, 12:07:50 AM »
Just a quick update.  I spoke to the tenants the other day, since the cops went by it's been pretty quiet.  Here's hoping it stays that way.

ysette9

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Re: Help with psycho bitch harrassing my tenants
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2017, 01:36:58 PM »
That is some good news. Let's hope it stays that way. Do keep us posted!