heat pumps and tenants; yay or nay?

[FtWorthAtheist]

Is a heat pump a good choice in a rental property?

I'm looking at installing a Mr Cool 2/3 ton universal heat pump in my rental property, which has good reviews even by people in far colder climates who use it as their only heat source.  It's not a minisplit; it connects to existing ductwork.  It costs similar to many lower SEER units that are not heat pumps.  I'm aware that the outdoor unit may not last as long as non-heat-pump.  However, my rental has really high heating/cooling costs due to large windows, vaulted ceilings, and electric heat.  Even though the electric is paid by the tenant, I believe the high electric costs could cause good tenants to leave.  I used to pay around $300/mo for electric in the coldest months even though I aggressively price shop my electric providers, and electric costs are rising in Texas now.

[nereo]

We have installed heat pumps (though not Mr Cool) in rental properties and we are glad we did. Electricity use went down, and the renters enjoyed the lower heating costs.
I can’t really think of a reason not to do it, so long as you are already ok with the upfront cost (which isn’t that much all things considered).

Do yourself a favor spend a couple hours air-sealing any leaks first. 

[uniwelder]

Heat pumps are very common. I’m confused when you say it connects to existing ductwork, but it sounds like you have electric resistance heat. Are there existing ducts for cooling?

[Sibley]

I can understand asking heat pump yay or nay, but why does it being a rental matter?

[Abe]

I think it's a good idea based on the cost savings as you point out. Only warning I have is: Don't know how it is in FW, but here in Houston a lot of the HVAC companies I talked with are not familiar with heat pumps. None of them could give me a straight answer on whether or not we could add one to the existing system (two conventional ACs with a natural gas furnace built into both units' blowers). It still isn't clear to me why I'd need to remove both the AC and gas furnaces to install a heatpump (total price $25k), and they can't give me a straight answer. Hope your experience is better.

@nereo and @Sibley - any reason replacing just the heating part of an HVAC system (electric heater or natural gas) with a heat pump isn't possible?

[AccidentialMustache]

@nereo and @Sibley - any reason replacing just the heating part of an HVAC system (electric heater or natural gas) with a heat pump isn't possible?

An AC is a unidirectional heat pump. Heat from indoors goes outdoors -> house is cooler. To be what is called a heat pump, the unit will be bidirectional: it can push heat either way. So if you get a heat pump that can heat the house, it automatically can cool the house too. Why would you want to keep the old AC? The heat pump is probably more efficiently than your existing AC.

[Abe]

@nereo and @Sibley - any reason replacing just the heating part of an HVAC system (electric heater or natural gas) with a heat pump isn't possible?

An AC is a unidirectional heat pump. Heat from indoors goes outdoors -> house is cooler. To be what is called a heat pump, the unit will be bidirectional: it can push heat either way. So if you get a heat pump that can heat the house, it automatically can cool the house too. Why would you want to keep the old AC? The heat pump is probably more efficiently than your existing AC.

Thanks, I had thought of that but was not sure if the heat pumps would be sufficient in the Texas heat and humidity. The existing ACs are only 2 years old and SEER 16, but I see your point. 

[FtWorthAtheist]

I can understand asking heat pump yay or nay, but why does it being a rental matter?

Many years ago, a landlord on another forum recommended not putting heat pumps in rentals even while heartily recommending them for personal residences.  However, I suspect his reasoning, which I can only recall bits and pieces of, has become obsolete with advances in heat pumps.

[FtWorthAtheist]

Do yourself a favor spend a couple hours air-sealing any leaks first.

I'm not sure I can seal all the leaks around the bathbroom ceiling heaters without creating a fire hazard.  However, I've had most of the windows replaced recently and had the west wall spray foamed when I replaced the siding, because that wall always felt cold when I lived there.

[uniwelder]

I can understand asking heat pump yay or nay, but why does it being a rental matter?

Many years ago, a landlord on another forum recommended not putting heat pumps in rentals even while heartily recommending them for personal residences.  However, I suspect his reasoning, which I can only recall bits and pieces of, has become obsolete with advances in heat pumps.

I can’t think of any reason why not. There is no maintenance for the tenant, except change an air filter every couple of months. Nothing to mess up. Allowing tenants to use a fireplace or wood stove can be a disaster and void home insurance, but nothing wrong with a heat pump. Same technology as central ac cooling.

[Sibley]

I can understand asking heat pump yay or nay, but why does it being a rental matter?

Many years ago, a landlord on another forum recommended not putting heat pumps in rentals even while heartily recommending them for personal residences.  However, I suspect his reasoning, which I can only recall bits and pieces of, has become obsolete with advances in heat pumps.

I can’t think of an
y reason why not. There is no maintenance for the tenant, except change an air filter every couple of months. Nothing to mess up. Allowing tenants to use a fireplace or wood stove can be a disaster and void home insurance, but nothing wrong with a heat pump. Same technology as central ac cooling.

Then it being a rental shouldn't matter. So your question is heat pump, yay or nay?

I've got not clue though. When I have to replace my furnace then I may very well be asking about heat pumps, but I'm hoping to avoid that for a while. Got plumbing to deal with first.

[AccidentialMustache]

Thanks, I had thought of that but was not sure if the heat pumps would be sufficient in the Texas heat and humidity. The existing ACs are only 2 years old and SEER 16, but I see your point.

Heat pumps have never struggled in the heat. A(n air-source) heat pump is an AC unit that has been upgraded to heat in addition to cool. Modulo the very far south of the lower-48, and HI, your cooling load is going to be less than your heating load. You can approximate* this by taking your target temp (call it an unmustachian 70 year round) minus the outdoor temp. You can think of that as a hill that the heat pump is trying to move the heat up. If it gets as hot (air temp, not heat index, the heat pump doesn't sweat like us humans do) as 110 that's a 40 degree difference. So that's equivalent to a 30 deg F winter, and there are *lots* of places that get those temps or lower.

My climate in the midwest looks more like an average low of 20 (-50 delta) for winter and 85 (+15 delta) for summer vs a static 70 deg.

Now, the one thing with tenants is you should make sure to give them a heads up about a heat pump -- their bills will be higher in the winter than the summer. Make sure they're prepared for that, because what you don't want is they can either pay rent or power but not both. If they don't pay rent you lose. If they don't pay power and pipes freeze and burst, you also lose. I don't like lose-lose situations.

*: Approximate, because it isn't just air temp, but also solar load, which helps in the winter and hurts in the summer and depends on a lot more factors -- insulation, design of the building, trees, etc.

[Jon Bon]

Probably fine in Forth Worth, I would warn the tenants first.


Here north of the Mason Dixon line they are much less common, so tenants would likely not have much experience with one.

I currently am experiencing a new heat pump, and I really don't care for it at all.

[uniwelder]

Probably fine in Forth Worth, I would warn the tenants first.


Here north of the Mason Dixon line they are much less common, so tenants would likely not have much experience with one.

I currently am experiencing a new heat pump, and I really don't care for it at all.

Why don’t you like it? I’ve heard people complain the air feels cold. Some will blow 75-80 degree air, which will heat the house but feel cold against your skin. It depends on the technology. My LG air handler I just installed is quite nice. Blower doesn’t start until the coils are warm and the air through the register is about 100 degrees. I believe the MrCool is likely about the same control system as mine.

[uniwelder]

Now, the one thing with tenants is you should make sure to give them a heads up about a heat pump -- their bills will be higher in the winter than the summer. Make sure they're prepared for that, because what you don't want is they can either pay rent or power but not both. If they don't pay rent you lose. If they don't pay power and pipes freeze and burst, you also lose. I don't like lose-lose situations.

The OPs house seems to have electric resistance heat, so a heat pump is likely to be welcomed and ease the cost burden.

[KarefulKactus15]

You didn't mention what you have or your location but there should be no issues with a heat pump.

Make sure a manual J (load calculation) is done for the home. I see you listed 2 or 3 ton.  That's a big difference. Bigger is NOT better.  In a cooling primary climate you want your ac to have almost 100% 24 hour run time when you hit a 95th and above percentile heat  wave.

[nereo]

You didn't mention what you have or your location but there should be no issues with a heat pump.

Make sure a manual J (load calculation) is done for the home. I see you listed 2 or 3 ton.  That's a big difference. Bigger is NOT better.  In a cooling primary climate you want your ac to have almost 100% 24 hour run time when you hit a 95th and above percentile heat  wave.

Goood point. We had issues in our previous home because the installers did the calculations wrong, not taking into account the energy efficiency upgrades we had done which improved energy usage by almost 60%.  During moderately warm days the heat pump would only cycle on for a couple minutes and took a huge load in order to do so.

[uniwelder]

You didn't mention what you have or your location but there should be no issues with a heat pump.

Make sure a manual J (load calculation) is done for the home. I see you listed 2 or 3 ton.  That's a big difference. Bigger is NOT better.  In a cooling primary climate you want your ac to have almost 100% 24 hour run time when you hit a 95th and above percentile heat  wave.

Goood point. We had issues in our previous home because the installers did the calculations wrong, not taking into account the energy efficiency upgrades we had done which improved energy usage by almost 60%.  During moderately warm days the heat pump would only cycle on for a couple minutes and took a huge load in order to do so.

From Mr Cool’s site, the 2-3 ton unit is the same piece of equipment.  It comes set as 3 ton capacity from the factory and you flip a dip switch to convert to 2 ton. I have no idea what that will change in its operation, but does explain the confusion.

edited to add--- Its important to note the Mr Cool unit is not a simple single stage unit, so it has variable capacity, and oversizing isn't as detrimental to performance.