Author Topic: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market  (Read 1769 times)

CTHusky

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First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« on: May 06, 2025, 06:12:56 PM »
Hello. My wife and I are looking for some advice as we navigate a very difficult housing market for buyers just south of Hartford, CT.

We are in our low 30s and have been married for a year. We plan to start a family soon - hopefully 2 kids. We plan to stay and raise our kids in this area, as her family is local, we both have built careers in the area, and I need to continue working in CT to continue contributing towards my pension.

I am a teacher. My wife is a nurse. Through our jobs and a little side hustling, we currently earn just above $200,000 per year. We currently save 40%-45% of this annually, and are healthy and happy in our current lifestyle. Together, our assets are north of $900,000. About 35% is pretty locked up in retirement-related stocks. About 25% is in brokerage stocks. About 40% of it is in high-yield savings for a downpayment. I'm proud that we have built all of this as a teacher and a nurse - but there's one problem in our financial story - we don't own a house.

We currently rent at $2,500 per month. We've been looking for a house for just under one year. We have had the following goals during the search:

1. Utilize up to all of the high-yield savings downpayment ($400,000), but limit dipping into the other assets.
2. Finance the house on a 15-year mortgage where monthly PITI does not exceed $3,200 per month. That puts our max budget around $650,000.
3. Sustain our healthy values, many of which align with Mr. Money Mustache, including reasonable commutes (they are currently < 15 minutes, we would like to keep them < 25), access to a sidewalk network nearby so there's at least some basic walkability, and a decent public school system.

Unfortunately, the local market consistently ranks as one of the worst for buyers in the country. We have lost 5 offers so far, mainly because we have not gone much above 10% over-asking. For reference, in most of these offers, we had to include appraisal gaps, as our offer price likely exceeded what the house would have appraised for. The feedback on our offers suggests our contingencies are very competitive - there's just people willing to pay even more money than we are.

My wife and I plan to revisit our strategy this weekend so that we can move forward with acquiring shelter in a way that is financially responsible. We would love any feedback you have on the following questions:

1. Should we adjust any of the goals above?
2. We've been putting offers on ~3 bed/2 bath ~2,000 sq. foot "forever" homes that, including projected work-related costs, ultimately closed in the 560,000 to 710,000 range. Should we consider something different? For example, does it make sense to buy a smaller "starter home" in a town with not-so-great public schools, and then move in about 6 years, before the kids enter school? New builds are near $800,000 - should we consider those instead?
3. In this currently crazy market, what will best hold value over time? For example, our favorite offers have been on houses that seem to have great bones and layout, but need some cosmetic TLC (paint, floors, light fixtures, maybe a bathroom remodel in the next few years, etc.). 
4. The market has been difficult over the past year, but seems to have become a whole different level of crazy this past month. Should we wait it out?

One last note - we like our jobs - so we are not in a rush to retire very early... maybe mid-50s. We love to save, but it's not to get out of working full time. Any advice on what you would do in this market would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

ender

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2025, 08:19:46 AM »
Quote
1. Should we adjust any of the goals above?

Why are you aiming for a 15 year mortgage? That seems arbitrary.

Personally I'd rather put 20% down and have a higher mortgage with more $$$ in the bank. That's far safer from a risk perspective.

Quote
2. We've been putting offers on ~3 bed/2 bath ~2,000 sq. foot "forever" homes that, including projected work-related costs, ultimately closed in the 560,000 to 710,000 range. Should we consider something different? For example, does it make sense to buy a smaller "starter home" in a town with not-so-great public schools, and then move in about 6 years, before the kids enter school? New builds are near $800,000 - should we consider those instead?

Most people don't buy forever homes. They might think they are, but the reality is overwhelmingly people will move from their first home.

Something to keep in mind. You might be the exception, but statistically it's exceedingly likely you move from this house.


Quote
there's one problem in our financial story - we don't own a house.

Why is this a problem? Because culturally you're a "failure" if you don't own a home?

windytrail

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2025, 11:28:15 AM »
The idea of a "forever" home when you're young is problematic on a couple of levels. First, it's offensive to your future self. How can you presume to know what yourself decades in the future wants? For most of us, our preferences and life circumstances change over time.

Second, geographic mobility can be important to economic opportunity (https://www.thirdway.org/report/stuck-in-place-what-lower-geographic-mobility-means-for-economic-opportunity). Americans are moving much less than we used to, which has consequences for our future job prospects. Our ancestors knew that sometimes the best job opportunity was found in a place far away from where they currently lived. To them, the American Dream was finding a way to achieve success, not staying in one place forever at all costs.

I am currently renting an apartment with my partner for similar rent as you, with a savings rate of around 70%. This will help me reach my FI goals much sooner than if I was spending thousands of dollars annually on home maintenance. Sure, homes will appreciate in the future, but there are other ways to capture some of that gain. We are investing in a real estate project in the area, for example.

There's a lot of older folks in my neighborhood that are living in $1M homes (an average home here in Seattle), but they neither feel wealthy, nor do they have high incomes, because all that money is tied up, not doing work for them. In contrast, $1M in the stock market will pay out $20k per year in dividends alone.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2025, 11:44:43 AM by windytrail »

Morning Glory

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2025, 11:49:09 AM »
Real estate markets are seasonal,  and even more so in places with snow. Right now is peak season. It will probably calm down some once school starts and even more so once temperatures drop below freezing.  You might not get a "deal" but you also will have more time to think before placing an offer because there won't be as many buyers.

I would go with a smaller home that fits your needs now rather than trying to anticipate future needs, but that is a personal decision.  We actually downsized after having kids because the upkeep on the big house and property was eating all our free time.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2025, 11:50:45 AM by Morning Glory »

CTHusky

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2025, 05:33:17 PM »
RE: Why is this a problem? Because culturally you're a "failure" if you don't own a home?

Not at all. If we were not going to have a family, I think we would keep renting and invest our money elsewhere, similar to what Windytrail discusses. The rent vs. buy numbers start to become problematic in this local area, however, once you rent more than a one bedroom apartment. I consider not owning a house a financial problem only because they have become much more expensive in this area even over the past year. We would probably be in a stronger financial place if we made the investment just a year or two ago.

RE: Concerns about "forever home"

This theme of advice is really helpful. Based on a few personal variables, I think we have a higher probability of being in our house for a while compared to the average person, but I'm forgetting that sometimes life necessitates a move. I'm also forgetting that we just may want to move one day, even if we dont have to.

RE: Seasonality

Thanks for this reminder. Over the past several years local prices have peaked around June, before cooling especially in the fall. I've got time to figure this out!

charis

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2025, 07:33:21 PM »
Where are the stats on the "forever" home?  I would bet a lot that most homeowners, overall, never move from the town or city in which they buy their first home.  I think they are more likely to upgrade to a bigger or nicer home in their town or an adjacent town because they've bought into the starter home concept, not by need. 

One thing I would ask the OP is why you assume your future children would not be successful in a "not so great public school?"  I have tested these assumptions and I think it's very worthwhile.

Omy

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2025, 05:37:54 AM »
I also recommend getting a 30 year mortgage. You can always pay it down faster if you choose. I turned my last 30 year mortgage into an 8 year mortgage with extra principal payments.

You may also need to drop your search price by 10% if you're unable to be competitive at your current price point. Or only look at homes that have been on the market for awhile without a price reduction. Or make your offers in September or December.

Alternatively, you can increase your price point and be prepared to do what it takes to win. A good realtor should be able to coach you about making a winning offer. I'm a retired realtor, but back in the day I would contact the listing agent and probe until I knew what the sellers needed and how much competition my buyers were facing so my buyers could make the strongest offer possible. Maybe the sellers value a delayed closing or free rent back...or they're really looking for no contingencies and I'd recommend a pre-inspection of the property.

I'd also have the buyers' lender contact the listing agent to tell them how well qualified the buyers were. And I won several multiple offer situations by presenting the buyers' offer in person.

If there are multiple offers that are roughly similar, the buyer's agent who is physically present often wins. I remember one in particular where our offer was in 2nd place but the first place agent was such a PITA that the sellers decided to dump that offer so they could work with the "nice" buyer's agent they met the day before.

If school district is important to you, you may want to do what it takes to get in now. Or have a good back up plan if you buy in a school district you aren't thrilled with. Being "forced" to move when kids are 5 or 6 is not a great position to be in. And (generally speaking) the houses in the great school district will appreciate faster than the ones in the school district that is not considered as good.

That being said school quality changes over time. And the best academic school may not be the best for a student who turns out to be more of an athlete. It's really hard to know what your future children might need, so most people end up in school districts that are somewhere in the middle - and that will probably turn out just fine.


GilesMM

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2025, 07:05:25 AM »
OP was pondering going for cheaper home vs need for better school district in a few years, so "forever" was simply more than five years or so.  I would go for "forever" in this context.  If you know how many years you are likely to stay, an ARM might be the way to go. Get lower rates in a few years without refinancing costs.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2025, 02:19:39 PM by GilesMM »

wonkette

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2025, 01:31:24 PM »
I think a local teacher might have some insight into what school district he wants his future kids in.

But where I am going to join the critics here is the 15 year mortgage, I'm not sure that is a hill to die on considering your overall financial position. Especially if you have a deferred income (pension) as part of your plan why not have the flexibility of a longer term?

mm1970

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2025, 03:10:56 PM »
We bought our starter home in our mid-30s (2BR, 1BA, 1100 sf) and oops, I guess it's probably our forever home.  It's been 21 years, it's paid off, and the first kid (19) is in college.

Morning Glory

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2025, 03:26:37 PM »
I'm on house #4.

 Another thing I want to add is that newer isn't always better, especially if you want a smaller house in a walkable neighborhood or just want to avoid HOAs. I even prefer the older floor plans with separate rooms because of noise control.

 Building materials were just sturdier 100 years ago, plus if there was some sort of water issue or shoddy construction you would know already.  I've known a few people who bought brand new houses and ended up with expensive issues with grading and drainage.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2025, 03:30:34 PM by Morning Glory »

CTHusky

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2025, 03:36:22 PM »
Thanks for all of the help so far!

I'll definitely revisit the 30 versus 15 year mortgage. Saving on the interest rate is attractive, but there's also value in the optionality to have a minimal lower monthly payment that I can always make a larger payment on.

Based on the comments, I'm leaning towards buying a house where we have the option to live more than 5 years in a town where the school districts are considered average or above-average. If my children do not have any intense special education needs, I would actually prefer an average district to an above-average district. Unfortunately, CT has the largest education inequity gap compared to any other state, so there are also a few very poorly performing districts nearby. In our geographical search radius, there is a district with an average SAT score of 1107, and a district with an average of 776! I found it helpful when Omy pointed out that school district reputation will likely help resale value over time.

Thanks for the offer tips, Omy. We've tried several (pre-inspection, no contingencies, extreme flexibility with when we close, etc.). We haven't tried to physically meet with the seller's agent yet - not a bad move, especially if there happens to be an open house.

GuitarStv

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2025, 04:24:01 PM »
For most of us, our preferences and life circumstances change over time.

Maaaaybe.

Some of us know who we are and generally where things are going at an earlier age though.  My life circumstances haven't significantly changed in the past twenty years despite having a kid, two dogs, and three different jobs.

Omy

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2025, 05:55:30 PM »
In our area, the buyers agent would meet the listing agent and the sellers for the offer presentation (assuming all parties agree.) The buyers should be available by phone for questions and quick signing.

A lot of agents will push back on this, but it can be extremely effective.

Paper Chaser

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2025, 06:17:27 PM »
School district ratings can change over time. They're pretty stable on a short term, but anything more than a few years starts to get murky. If you don't even have kids yet, you don't need schools  for at least 5 years. By the time you do need schools 5-17 years from now, things could be way different. And if this is your "forever" home where you plan to live for decades, then trying to predict the impact that school ratings might have on resale value 20+ years from now seems pretty speculative. It does just about guarantee that you'll pay more for the house now though.

School ratings also tend to indicate areas with wealth more than they indicate the quality of education provided. Districts with comfortable, stable families that speak English and are likely to help their kids out tend to be rated better than poorer districts with a higher number of poor families that might have less stability, or a language barrier, or a single parent that works two jobs and can't oversee everything their child does. That can be less of a reflection on the quality of the teaching or curriculum, and more about the circumstances of the students at home. Good parenting, from intelligent, involved parents matters more for outcomes than the neighborhood you live in.

How much would your future kids benefit from extra money? If the house in the 'worse' school district is tens of thousands cheaper, what could you do with that money to benefit your kids? Maybe that money gets invested into college funds that they might not have in the "better" school district?

I'm not saying that a house in a good school district is a bad idea, but I am saying that I wouldn't completely write other houses off (assuming you will be attentive, involved parents). In true MMM fashion, if you're willing to handle some aspects yourself, you can save a lot of money that can be used to improve your life in other ways.

charis

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2025, 08:46:03 AM »

School ratings also tend to indicate areas with wealth more than they indicate the quality of education provided. Districts with comfortable, stable families that speak English and are likely to help their kids out tend to be rated better than poorer districts with a higher number of poor families that might have less stability, or a language barrier, or a single parent that works two jobs and can't oversee everything their child does. That can be less of a reflection on the quality of the teaching or curriculum, and more about the circumstances of the students at home. Good parenting, from intelligent, involved parents matters more for outcomes than the neighborhood you live in.

I can't beat this drum enough.  We are in a bad district but a good neighborhood with like minded families who are very involved, educated parents.  Is everything roses in the schools? No.  But lots of students do very well, go on to prestigious schools if they chose, and are good humans.

kite

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2025, 06:04:01 AM »
I wouldn’t chase a particular school district for kids that aren’t here.
Schools change over time. But so will you.

Check out a neighborhood and buy where you want to live.

roomtempmayo

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2025, 01:13:37 PM »
@CTHusky I don't know what you should do.  But I'll say a bit about what we did, and maybe it will help.

- We treated location as our top priority.  Both the neighborhood, and the way it connects to walking and biking infrastructure.  One of the best choices we've ever made.

- Not needing to drive is huge and makes us more financially resilient.  If a car is in the shop, we don't need to rent/uber.  If one of us were to ever lose a job, we could cut down to one car or even go car free.  Not being car dependent makes us more secure.  Even if you can just preserve this option for one of you by moving close to their job, that's going to be a huge positive in your life.

- We bought a 2+ bed, thinking we wouldn't have kids.  And then we did have a child.  We don't regret buying a 1300 sq ft house, but we might have bought bigger if we'd known what the future held. 

- I agree with others that you can't know what the future holds, but I wouldn't buy a "starter" house with the advance intention of moving in a few years.  The costs of moving are too high, and you forego the advantage of locking in your housing costs if you need to move.

- We bought our house in part because it has an unfinished walkout basement that we may end up turning into living space in the future.  Instead of thinking about moving, maybe consider looking at places that give you options to grow or change with your situation.

- Last year we spent $40k replacing the roof, gutters, AC, and hot water heater.  That was pretty much just maintaining the status quo.  Don't underestimate what maintaining a house costs.

- Schools.  Our local public school isn't great.  Moving to a "great" school would cost us ~$4k/mo in additional mortgage/taxes/insurance, plus mandatory commuting costs.  So $48k+/year for schools.  Don't fool yourself into calling that increase an investment; it's mostly consumption.  Our calculation was that we can send our daughter to a $$$ private school if we want with significantly better test scores than the best public schools we'd move toward for far less than $48k/year while also not increasing our commutes/car dependency.  Even if you think schools really matter (I do), you might be both financially and academically better off ponying up for private tuition instead of trying to buy your way into an exclusive district.

- Last, I'd just think long and hard about sinking 6, 7, 800k into a house.  That's going to totally change your financial trajectory from being people quickly becoming wealthy to people who are mostly working to pay the bills once you throw two kids in the mix.  Any budget you work out needs to have the least optimistic version of childcare expenses accounted for.

justchecking

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2025, 09:28:46 AM »
Fellow nutmegger here. I have bought lots of houses in CT and would be more than happy to chat if that would be helpful. We had very similar criteria for the home we live in. Getting creative is key when trying to win in a hot housing market. Feel free to PM me.

41_swish

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2025, 10:25:38 AM »
I have always found the "Real Estate Market" to be very situational. Trying to paint a one size fits all narrative for everywhere form Maine to Miami is silly. Certain sunbelt cities are absolutely buyers markets and other places are still sellers markets.

I think many major metro areas are starting to see levels of inventory that we have not seen since the late 2010s.

My hot take is that home's are not good "investments". My case study. My parents bought a home in 2010 for 225k that is now worth ~500k. However, they ended up paying ~170k in interest and approximately, this is a very rough guess, 50k on a new HVAC, Roof, Appliances, water heater, and other odds and ends. They also had to pay 15 years of homeowners insurance and property tax. 500-225-170-50=55. They made ~55k before accounting for home owners insurance and property tax. Please correct my math if I am wrong, but that was a 1.57% annualized return before accounting for homeowners insurance and property tax.

hdatontodo

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2025, 10:35:11 AM »
I have always found the "Real Estate Market" to be very situational. ...

How about if you factor in what they would've paid in rent during the same amount of time?


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GilesMM

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2025, 01:18:45 PM »
I have always found the "Real Estate Market" to be very situational. Trying to paint a one size fits all narrative for everywhere form Maine to Miami is silly. Certain sunbelt cities are absolutely buyers markets and other places are still sellers markets.

I think many major metro areas are starting to see levels of inventory that we have not seen since the late 2010s.

My hot take is that home's are not good "investments". My case study. My parents bought a home in 2010 for 225k that is now worth ~500k. However, they ended up paying ~170k in interest and approximately, this is a very rough guess, 50k on a new HVAC, Roof, Appliances, water heater, and other odds and ends. They also had to pay 15 years of homeowners insurance and property tax. 500-225-170-50=55. They made ~55k before accounting for home owners insurance and property tax. Please correct my math if I am wrong, but that was a 1.57% annualized return before accounting for homeowners insurance and property tax.


A residence should almost never be treated as a financial investment.  It is a place to live and is expected to have a (sometimes significant) capital and operating cost.  You can sell it but you have to live somewhere.

kite

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2025, 04:55:49 PM »
I have always found the "Real Estate Market" to be very situational. Trying to paint a one size fits all narrative for everywhere form Maine to Miami is silly. Certain sunbelt cities are absolutely buyers markets and other places are still sellers markets.

I think many major metro areas are starting to see levels of inventory that we have not seen since the late 2010s.

My hot take is that home's are not good "investments". My case study. My parents bought a home in 2010 for 225k that is now worth ~500k. However, they ended up paying ~170k in interest and approximately, this is a very rough guess, 50k on a new HVAC, Roof, Appliances, water heater, and other odds and ends. They also had to pay 15 years of homeowners insurance and property tax. 500-225-170-50=55. They made ~55k before accounting for home owners insurance and property tax. Please correct my math if I am wrong, but that was a 1.57% annualized return before accounting for homeowners insurance and property tax.

I don’t understand your math.
If they’ve paid 175k in interest, they didn’t also spend $225,000. Maybe they put 20% or 45k down?? Use the down payment, not the sales price.
And then throw it away because they haven’t sold.

In college, I bought a $100k home a mile from where I grew up with 5% down and monthly payments (PITI + PMI) that were comparable to rent for a similar property. I wasn’t aggressive at paying it down, but a refi lowered the rate and knocked a few years off the mortgage. Before age 50, I was debt free. My mother lived into her 90’s staying in the home my folks purchased in 1958.

If I reach 90, I will similarly have over 40 years with drastically reduced housing expenses. This is what I’ve “made” on that initial $5000 investment + capital improvements.

I made my living on Wall Street. There isn’t a low-risk investment product that will take a $5000 investment and turn it into a large enough annuity in 25 years to generate $30,000/year in income continuing in perpetuity and adjusting for inflation. You can do that on a margin, however. And the only margin investment available to the average bloke is real estate with a mortgage. I don’t have to sell, and my home is already generating a return.

When I moved in, my neighbor Peggy (same age as my mom) was renting the same size house that I purchased. Peggy was Black. And in the 1950’s in my town, realtors would not show Black couples the newly constructed housing that my white parents were able to purchase. Peggy & Bill had no choice but to rent. Eventually, her rent took up such a large share of her income that Peggy needed to move to subsidized housing where rent was capped at 30% of income.
My mother lived right around the corner from the Subsidized Senior Apartments and her Taxes & Utilities were similar to Peggy’s rent.
When Peggy died in her 90’s, there was no home value for her children to inherit. When my Mom died there was.
There’s more: From the time my parents paid off their mortgage in 1978, they saved what that monthly mortgage payment would have been. When my Father retired, they saved his pension and her Social Security, living on only his SS. It took them far too long to get that money invested in an index fund (But, heck, savings account interest was actually something in the 80’s so, whatever. Can’t cry about it now). The point is, there was plenty for Mom to have privately hired in-home aides for the last year of her life + leave an inheritance. And over the years she had the room to take in her children to live for stretches of time when needed.
Peggy needed a subsidized apartment and Medicaid. That’s not staying in your home of 50+ years in the twilight of your life. It’s a shared room, nursing home bed and restrictions on hours & number of visitors. It’s also isolation during a pandemic. 

The wealth gap between Black Americans and other racial groups is about real estate and who was shut out of the market. It’s no longer the 1950’s, red-lining has long been illegal and the disparity should eventually cease to exist. But there’s a case to be made for reparations to the generations who should have been able to buy homes in their 20’s who were shut out of the market and forced to rent.

You might wonder why Peggy didn’t just buy the house I purchased. It should have been affordable for her. And perhaps she could have. But she was already in her 60’s. I was in my early 20’s. She was already too old that she’d never have decades of mortgage free living.

My advice:
Buy on a margin, when you are young.
Don’t over pay.



41_swish

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2025, 06:38:35 PM »
So, you would need to do a rent vs. buy calculator. The whole point of my comment was that they spend 225k in principle + 175k in interest + 50k in repairs/maintenance for a grand total of 450k before homeowners' insurance and property taxes. On the surface the home more than doubled in value in 15 years, but when you factor in every single cost it was a not a true doubling of their investment.

What is the alternative? Rent? Yes. I would have to go to a rent vs. buy calculator and enter historical rates of where I was raised and yada yada yada.

My point being, there is a lot of unrecoverable costs associated with home ownership. My 1.57% number is definitely wrong, but it is worth thinking about before biting off a big mortgage at 6.5%

CTHusky

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2025, 07:14:54 PM »
@roomtempmayo , your post clarified a lot of my thoughts really well. Thank you!

-Not needing todrive is huge and makes us more financially resilient.  If a car is in the shop, we don't need to rent/uber.  If one of us were to ever lose a job, we could cut down to one car or even go car free.  Not being car dependent makes us more secure.  Even if you can just preserve this option for one of you by moving close to their job, that's going to be a huge positive in your life.

One of the houses we looked at was a mile from my job. This would have been a huge win, as we could saved on the maintenance/gas/insurance/CT Motor Vehicle Tax of one car. I'm hoping another house in that area comes up soon.

- We bought our house in part because it has an unfinished walkout basement that we may end up turning into living space in the future.  Instead of thinking about moving, maybe consider looking at places that give you options to grow or change with your situation.

We've been talking about this possibility a lot more recently: Start small with the option to expand if needed/wanted in the future.

- Schools.  Our local public school isn't great.  Moving to a "great" school would cost us ~$4k/mo in additional mortgage/taxes/insurance, plus mandatory commuting costs.  So $48k+/year for schools.  Don't fool yourself into calling that increase an investment; it's mostly consumption.  Our calculation was that we can send our daughter to a $$$ private school if we want with significantly better test scores than the best public schools we'd move toward for far less than $48k/year while also not increasing our commutes/car dependency.  Even if you think schools really matter (I do), you might be both financially and academically better off ponying up for private tuition instead of trying to buy your way into an exclusive district.

I haven't run the math for this on the local area yet, but if I had to guess, it would be a similar situation if you compare the cost of public school in the expensive towns to the cost of private school in the cheaper towns. The possibility of school performance changing has come up a few times on this thread. If the local market remains this crazy for a few more years, local school performance may change quicker than usual. I could see demand for private schools rising. I could also see more demand to strengthen the regional magnet school system. I feel like a lot of people who would have just bought into the higher performing public schools a few years ago are being priced out, creating demand in other areas. 

roomtempmayo

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2025, 09:39:14 PM »
I feel like a lot of people who would have just bought into the higher performing public schools a few years ago are being priced out, creating demand in other areas.

Anecdotally, I think that's happening.  Not sure if it's more common than the past, but there comes a price where people start to look for alternatives.

Morning Glory

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2025, 02:15:34 PM »
So, you would need to do a rent vs. buy calculator. The whole point of my comment was that they spend 225k in principle + 175k in interest + 50k in repairs/maintenance for a grand total of 450k before homeowners' insurance and property taxes. On the surface the home more than doubled in value in 15 years, but when you factor in every single cost it was a not a true doubling of their investment.

What is the alternative? Rent? Yes. I would have to go to a rent vs. buy calculator and enter historical rates of where I was raised and yada yada yada.

My point being, there is a lot of unrecoverable costs associated with home ownership. My 1.57% number is definitely wrong, but it is worth thinking about before biting off a big mortgage at 6.5%

If I invest 450k in the market that gives me 18k per year on the 4% rule, or $1500 every month.  What kind of apartment can you rent for that in your parents' neighborhood?

41_swish

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2025, 03:46:56 PM »
In the LCOL area where they live, you actually can rent a 3 bed 2 bath modest home. They live in a suburban McMansion style home, so it is definitely not apples to apples.

Kapyarn

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2025, 08:32:22 AM »
If I invest 450k in the market that gives me 18k per year on the 4% rule, or $1500 every month.  What kind of apartment can you rent for that in your parents' neighborhood?

Rent also has property taxes and home insurance rolled into the cost.

The property tax on a $400,000 home might be $4000 a year and the insurance $1000 a year.  So for equal value you would have $23k to spend on rent, or $1900 a month.

Morning Glory

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2025, 10:18:19 AM »
If I invest 450k in the market that gives me 18k per year on the 4% rule, or $1500 every month.  What kind of apartment can you rent for that in your parents' neighborhood?

Rent also has property taxes and home insurance rolled into the cost.

The property tax on a $400,000 home might be $4000 a year and the insurance $1000 a year.  So for equal value you would have $23k to spend on rent, or $1900 a month.

I know that. I typically wouldn't include interest in the calculation though, as rent vs buy is a separate calculation to cash vs mortgage.  For swish's parents it's really 225k purchase price + 125k in a fund for taxes and insurance (based on your amounts , this varies widely by location) + 83k in a fund for maintenance (50k over 15 years is 3333 per year x25 is 83). =433 k

LaineyAZ

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2025, 11:02:04 AM »
I'm sure you're probably aware, but existing homes sales are continuing to go down this year:

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/24/nx-s1-5375071/home-sales-march-spring-housing

Just wondering if waiting until later in the year would give you a price advantage or if it could even become a buyer's market?

kite

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2025, 04:22:23 AM »
So, you would need to do a rent vs. buy calculator. The whole point of my comment was that they spend 225k in principle + 175k in interest + 50k in repairs/maintenance for a grand total of 450k before homeowners' insurance and property taxes. On the surface the home more than doubled in value in 15 years, but when you factor in every single cost it was a not a true doubling of their investment.

What is the alternative? Rent? Yes. I would have to go to a rent vs. buy calculator and enter historical rates of where I was raised and yada yada yada.

My point being, there is a lot of unrecoverable costs associated with home ownership. My 1.57% number is definitely wrong, but it is worth thinking about before biting off a big mortgage at 6.5%

It’s possible your folks got a spectacular deal.
$450,000 in housing costs is basically $30,000/year over 15 years or $2500/month. Not an unreasonable rent for a single family home in my neighborhood. It’s close to what my tenants pay.
After 15 years of renting, there’s no equity.
Instead, your folks have $500,000 in equity.

You’re right on the unrecoverable costs. IME, the biggest is the time & expense of maintenance. You don’t get weekends back spent mowing, gardening & fixing/upgrading all the infinite things that happen with property.

41_swish

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2025, 11:50:18 AM »
Actually, yes I think they did get a very good deal. They bough the house at the end of 2009 like around Thanksgiving and we moved in over Christmas break. This was right after the financial crisis, so they in theory bought the dip.

41_swish

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2025, 11:53:24 AM »
I don't discredit that rent has property taxes, maintenance, and everything else bundled into the price. I am just saying that they are a lot of unrecoverable costs associated with home ownership that get neglected. Long term, I do want to buy, but I need to do it when it makes sense for my life and not because it's a good "investment". Homes are "use assets" and need to be treated as such. When you look at it through that lense, it makes more sense.

JupiterGreen

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2025, 04:59:45 PM »
I'm sure you're probably aware, but existing homes sales are continuing to go down this year:

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/24/nx-s1-5375071/home-sales-march-spring-housing

Just wondering if waiting until later in the year would give you a price advantage or if it could even become a buyer's market?

They are dropping nationally, but not for CT or the northeast in general. Just bought in the northeast, we paid 45k over asking in the dead of winter to get our new house and we wake up every day glad we did all that as we move into the busier season for real estate. Prices are not going down here yet. I can't predict the future, but I don't see them dropping in the Northeast soon for a number of reasons.

CTHusky

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2025, 07:30:01 PM »
I'm sure you're probably aware, but existing homes sales are continuing to go down this year:

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/24/nx-s1-5375071/home-sales-march-spring-housing

Just wondering if waiting until later in the year would give you a price advantage or if it could even become a buyer's market?

They are dropping nationally, but not for CT or the northeast in general. Just bought in the northeast, we paid 45k over asking in the dead of winter to get our new house and we wake up every day glad we did all that as we move into the busier season for real estate. Prices are not going down here yet. I can't predict the future, but I don't see them dropping in the Northeast soon for a number of reasons.

Each month I analyze both the national and local data. There's no doubt that, nationally, the market is changing. CT, and most of New England, has not caught onto the trend. Data is coming in on houses that closed in April, and the selling price per square foot locally is averaging about 15% higher than last spring. Seasonality should help if we're still looking late summer into the fall, but there's not enough evidence to try time to time this market beyond the seasonal patterns.

One interesting story to watch is that New England has highest median homeowner age in the country. There's going to be a wave of people that need to sell eventually, but I think it's still about a decade away. It's hard to imagine in a market like this, but one day, it will likely be a buyer's market again. We're not going to buy something that would be very hard to sell in a future market. 

Paper Chaser

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2025, 04:02:50 AM »
NE is definitely one of the last holdouts. Prices are still climbing, but not at the same rate they were last year:

41_swish

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Re: First Time Buyers Navigating a Seller's Market
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2025, 10:28:10 AM »
Here in CO, I have really seen inventory numbers jump up like crazy. I think it is a culmination of lots of new builds being completed and the rental market has been flooded with new rental units. I know here isn't cheap by any means, but I just don't get who is affording to buy $3,500 a month mortgages for homes deep in the burbs. Maybe dual income homes

 

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