Author Topic: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?  (Read 2221 times)

PoutineLover

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« on: November 23, 2020, 10:46:44 AM »
I (29F) currently live in an apartment with my partner (29M) which is owned by family with very cheap rent. The problem is that the apartment is a small one bedroom and we want to start a family and move into a bigger place. I'm also working from home, but it may not be permanent, so for now we would like to get at least a two bedroom place so I can have an office for now and a kid's room later. I would rather move before getting pregnant so we don't have the pressure of moving on a deadline.

My income is 55k, his was 40k, but has recently increased to 70k. We have about 80k in accessible money (not counting pension savings) and could expect about 20k in help from our parents. Places that fit our needs in our city are on average 400k, with some cheaper/smaller ones around 350k and the nicer ones around 450k. If we move further out, we would probably need a second car and our commutes would be a lot longer.

If we buy, we'd like to put down 20% to avoid PMI, but also recognize that it leaves us with not that much cash leftover. The carrying costs would be reasonable on our incomes, so we should be able to build up cash reserves again, but parental leaves and possible job changes would introduce some uncertainty as well. The market seems to be increasing, so we are worried that waiting longer won't necessarily make it more affordable. We want to buy a place we could live in for at least 10 years and ideally a lot longer.

Option 1: stay where we are, save up more to buy when we have more money, delay starting a family
Option 2: rent somewhere else for probably 3x more than our current rent, save up for a home later, start a family
Option 3: buy now (probably a 400k house, 20% down), depleting savings, start a family

Obviously it's a bit simplified, but that's basically where it feels like we are right now. We have started the process of looking for a home, but haven't made a final decision to buy yet. Two bedroom apartments for rent would cost about the same as a mortgage, and about triple our current rent. Cautious me wants to wait longer to buy until we feel more secure, but at the same time I really don't want to wait forever to have kids and I'm not getting younger (30 seems like a big number in terms of fertility!). Does anyone have advice or insight to offer on the situation?

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4887
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2020, 03:17:37 PM »
You can start a family just fine in a 1 bed apartment. Babies don't need their own space/room until they're 2 or 3, really, so you have time. You can ask about this on the mini forum, too and get lots of great advice (paging @Laura33).

In your shoes I would go ahead and start the family-making, and stay where you are and save up money. You will have (at a minimum) several years before you need to be looking for a new house.

I mean, if you end up with triplets and need a live-in nanny/grandma or something, well crap, go buy a house. Otherwise sit tight.

-W

ixtap

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2975
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2020, 04:07:32 PM »
waltworks beat me to it. Take advantage of cheap rent, work on the baby making, have the baby and then, as you settle into parenthood, reevaluate the living situation. As a mustachian, having a baby in one bedroom apartment may be the only way to avoid relatives trying to convince you you need three different kinds of strollers and two different high chairs and...

You are talking about homes so far in excess of 3x your combined salaries that the loan would still beat that metric. That tends to feel pretty tight, if you can even get the loan.

Omy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 754
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 07:40:00 AM »
I'm waiting for the market in my area to crash a bit before buying another house. Everything is overpriced where I am. So it really depends on the market in your area if you are concerned about it being a good investment. If the emotional aspect is more important than the investment aspect...and if you plan to be there several years...then go for it!

PoutineLover

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 09:54:47 AM »
I have really thought about having a baby here, since obviously it's great for our savings. Honestly we are pretty cramped as it is, and we'd have a really hard time fitting even the most minimalist baby set up. Not to say it's impossible, and I know if we had no other option we could, but it wouldn't be my preference.
My bigger concern is the market has been pretty hot lately and prices are going up. There's a bit of a concern that if we wait too long we'll end up priced out. Obviously we don't have a crystal ball but COVID has been very good for some people and very terrible for others. It seems like people who are now working from home and saving tons of money that they used to spend on social stuff are in a position to buy homes, pushing up prices, and people who lost their jobs are struggling to pay rent.
In the end, it isn't a purely financial decision, it'll definitely be emotional and lifestyle too. We are analyzing the financial aspects and wouldn't buy something that we didn't feel was sustainable. We have no other debt and the carrying costs for what we are considering buying are fairly reasonable on our incomes. It just makes us a bit "house poor" in the near term, which we'd have to figure out if we are okay with. I'd love to consider cheaper places, but in our market they're either tiny and we'd have to move sooner anyway, or they're in bad shape and require a ton of renovation, which we don't necessarily have the skills for. Or they're far away, and I'd rather pay more to be able to walk/bike/transit most of the time. Lots to consider!

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4887
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2020, 10:01:42 AM »
You can't fit a pack n' play in your bedroom or living/dining area? They fold up in about 15 seconds when not in use.

I mean, if you have never dealt with an infant - they don't take up any meaningful space. They really don't. Once they're mobile/crawling/around 1, things start to change but you haven't even started trying yet, right?

Don't fall for the buy now or be priced out forever thing, either. Many of us older folks here know how that ended last time. Owning an overpriced house you can barely afford is a terrible idea, and you guys are young - you'll be making WAY more money as your careers progress.

-W

Paper Chaser

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 612
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2020, 10:42:58 AM »
All I'm going to say, is that the things that are important to you now may very well change when kids arrive. It's not as easy to walk/bike/transit with small kids and their stuff as it is as a couple of young adults. It can be done of course, but there's more work/hassle/planning involved.
Nearly all of my friends that bought or rented places in hip, walkable urban neighborhoods had moved to the burbs within a year or two of starting a family.
They'd much rather commute a bit from a larger house with a yard for kids and decent schools than pay more for so much less space in a fancier neighborhood with a shorter commute. That's especially true now that many of them are working remotely.
Being 'house poor' isn't great in any circumstance, but the things that might make being 'house poor' seem acceptable now, (like having fine dining or your favorite hole in the wall within walking distance) aren't likely to be important once kids enter the picture and you can't enjoy those things as often. The. You're just paying too much for a place that doesn't fit your life very well.

PoutineLover

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2020, 11:04:00 AM »
There's just barely enough room for a yoga mat in our living room, so technically yes we could fit a pack and play, but it's tight with a couch, desk and bookshelves. The living room is 10x10 and the bedroom is 10x12, and we have 500sq feet total, a lot of which is wasted in the hallway. So yes maybe it's possible, it's just gonna get cramped and we'd have to get rid of a bunch of stuff.
We do expect to make more over time, and hope that prices don't rise faster than our incomes if we decide to wait. We haven't really seen a big drop in prices in Canada, and if anything my city has lagged the other big markets, so if it ever does catch up that could be problematic.
It is a good point that priorities might change, however I grew up in a very suburban, gotta drive everywhere kind of neighbourhood and it's not the lifestyle I want. It's not so much about the restaurants, but more being close to grocery stores, parks, libraries, family and sports. I don't want to need two cars and have to drive for every little errand, and I can't really see that changing when I have kids, although maybe there were childless people like me who totally changed their minds after giving birth.
I'm definitely being open minded about all the feedback and I appreciate it. I really want to consider all the options and pros and cons and make the right decision for my circumstances. Probably gonna start trying anyway, and then if it happens sooner rather than later we might have to make do in the small apartment, or we'll end up finding a place that works.

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2083
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2020, 11:51:32 AM »
Owning an overpriced house you can barely afford is a terrible idea, and you guys are young - you'll be making WAY more money as your careers progress.

So much this^^^

There are many good reasons to buy a house, but fear of getting priced out in the future is not one of them. Yes, housing may continue increasing, but it may not. It may stagnate or even decline. What if it takes you longer than expected to conceive, or you find out you can't have children? It took us a year longer than expected, for a number of our friends it was multiple years, and still others ended up on a many year adoption journey. Consider the future possibility of being underwater on a house that's bigger than you need, which then ties you down and limits your career options in other areas.

Even if you get pregnant straight away, you still have a few years until you really need to move. I get that it's cramped, but get rid of stuff. Or get a storage unit. At ~$100/mo. you'd still be saving money.

And if you do get priced out of buying in your area there are still other options. Rent a bigger place. Or move somewhere less expensive.

My point is that you currently have lots of options, and the future is never certain. Whereas speculatively buying a house greatly narrows your future options.

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4887
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2020, 04:41:24 PM »
...although maybe there were childless people like me who totally changed their minds after giving birth.

You will look back on this someday and laugh. You may very well live in a similar location/neighborhood when you have kids, but basically, until you have them, you really shouldn't bother trying to predict what you'll want to do/where you'll want to live. You will lose all your old friends and gain new ones, daycare and school will suddenly matter a lot, you may not want to work the same job/hours, etc, etc.

To paraphrase the old saw: nobody's pre-baby planning survives contact with the enemy! :)

-W

Buffaloski Boris

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2131
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2020, 07:23:59 PM »
I would look at this from a more brutally Mustachian perspective; is owning a personal residence a good investment compared to other available alternatives? Would it pencil out if you were looking at it as a long term investment? If the answer is NO then itís an expense.

In hot markets, itís rare to be able to find real estate that cash flows and would be a better investment than say the stock market. Do we really think we can more reliably predict the appreciation of one piece of property than we can a single stock?  If not then maybe itís a better idea to rent and invest elsewhere. You can always buy later if the numbers on a home do make sense.

charis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2271
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2020, 07:31:32 PM »
...although maybe there were childless people like me who totally changed their minds after giving birth.

You will look back on this someday and laugh. You may very well live in a similar location/neighborhood when you have kids, but basically, until you have them, you really shouldn't bother trying to predict what you'll want to do/where you'll want to live. You will lose all your old friends and gain new ones, daycare and school will suddenly matter a lot, you may not want to work the same job/hours, etc, etc.

To paraphrase the old saw: nobody's pre-baby planning survives contact with the enemy! :)

-W

This was untrue for us. Bought a house one neighborhood away while pregnant while renting a tiny one bedroom in a more non kid neighborhood (but it was only 1.5 our income).  10 years later we are in the same house and close to all of our old friends, only made a few new ones. I ended an old job while pregnant and started a new, longer hour job with a baby. It was fine when the kids were little. It's only been recently that I've started wanting to cut back.

You can't plan, per se, but you can still make good decisions that don't stretch you so much financially.  I agree with waiting to buy, but our lives did not change dramatically after having kids.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 07:34:04 PM by charis »

Laura33

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2891
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2020, 09:26:36 AM »
Thanks @waltworks -- I was offline for a few weeks and so just saw this now.

Good rules of thumb:  Prioritize the life you want to live over your surroundings.  And spend money to get what you need for the life you are living now, not the life you may be living at some point in the future.  Always start with what is free, and see how much you can accomplish with that; spend money when you have demonstrated that that doesn't work, not when you suspect it won't.

IOW:  if you want a baby, have a baby!  Don't tie that decision to a new house.  That puts way too much pressure on the housing decision, because you have now framed it as the No. 1 thing keeping you from reaching your goal of having a family.  If the goal is family, then work on that.

Once you have the baby, you can see if the apartment works or if it is too small.  You can also see how mat leave pay works with your budget, how much baby "things" are costing, whether/when you want to go back to work and part-time or full-time, how much daycare is, etc.  That will give you a much better view of how much you actually want to spend on housing given all your other goals, and the size home and type of neighborhood you want to live in with junior.

The problem with reaching your stage of adulthood -- several years working, decent careers, stable relationship, etc. -- is you start to think it's time to flesh out all those pretty pictures in your head of the life you dreamed of and have been saving for.  Babies, houses, cars, vacations, etc.  But the risk is that you end up focusing on things that don't actually suit your needs in the end, because of course when you had all those dreams, you didn't have the experience to understand what they cost and what all the tradeoffs are. 

That's why I start with the general principles above, because it helps you approach those kinds of decisions where there's a big emotional tug to make a particular choice.  If you focus on your personal priorities first, and then use your money to get you what you need instead of trying to satisfy all the things you want, you buy yourself a lot more freedom to live the life you want with the people you want.

PMJL34

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 211
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2020, 10:43:27 AM »
OP,

You have received excellent feedback.

Couple of questions:

1) Are you married or dating?
1) Just how cheap is your current rent from your family?
2) How secure are your jobs?
3) Is the location where you are looking to purchase the same location as where you live?
4) Is this location where family resides and where your employment is near?

I think just about every one of us with child/ren have been where you were and had the same thoughts and worries. It's completely normal. I also agree the best decision is to worry about having the baby and then worry about the next step. For example, you don't need to buy a wedding dress before you have a boyfriend lol.

On the flip side, depending on your 4 answers above, buying may be okay. You actually seem to have a decent down payment and even at 400K purchase price with 20% down, the mortgage would be $1349/month (not including upkeep, insurance, tax, etc.) so I feel it's affordable if you live frugally and maintain both jobs.

Best of luck!

PoutineLover

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2020, 04:18:42 PM »
I'm glad I came here for advice, it's always good to get different perspectives. Everyone in real life tells me that having a baby in our small apartment is a crazy idea, but I'm starting to think it would be possible for a little while. I'm sure there must be an age limit to sharing a room with a child though.. we're going to want some privacy eventually.

Couple of questions:

1) Are you married or dating?
1) Just how cheap is your current rent from your family?
2) How secure are your jobs?
3) Is the location where you are looking to purchase the same location as where you live?
4) Is this location where family resides and where your employment is near?
To answer those questions:
1. common law for now, will eventually get married whenever this pandemic ends
2. about half market rate - $450
3. pretty secure but not permanent positions
4. same city, probably looking to buy in a different neighborhood though
5. we're looking at places that are in walkable and bikeable neighborhoods, reasonable public transit commute to work and reasonable drives to family and other nearby activities we do. Our current area isn't bad, but there are a couple other neighborhoods that would also fit the bill.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you who are recommending having a kid in a one-bedroom have actually done it, and how was it? How long did you do it for?

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4887
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2020, 06:33:01 PM »
P&I on a ~320k loan is going to be somewhere in the ballpark of $1400/mo. Then taxes and insurance will be at least $500/mo or so, unless you live in a crazy low tax area. You'll need to set aside at least a couple hundred bucks a month to maintain the place and/or pay the HOA.

When all is said and done, you're going to spend $25k/year on housing, at the low end, and there's some opportunity cost as well (maybe $5k/year if you had that money invested).

Your current cost is a bit under $6k.

So essentially, you're talking about spending an extra $20-25k/year on housing for a future time when you have a couple of kids and want more space/different location. Plus the closing costs and moving costs and hassle.

That might be a fine move, if you could use a crystal ball to see what your future N-kids having self will actually want and need. But you don't, so you're rolling the dice that future you will think the pile of money you spent was worth it.

For what it's worth, our first kid lived with us in a 900 square foot condo for the first year of life - but we only used about half that space. The baby was in our room, because otherwise it was way too much of a pain at night. Privacy? LOL. You're not going to be needing that for a while.

Everyone is just basically telling you that you're getting ahead of yourself. You have some getting married and actual kid-having to do before you think any more about this, IMO.

-W

KS

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 208
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2020, 12:43:53 AM »
I'm glad I came here for advice, it's always good to get different perspectives. Everyone in real life tells me that having a baby in our small apartment is a crazy idea, but I'm starting to think it would be possible for a little while. I'm sure there must be an age limit to sharing a room with a child though.. we're going to want some privacy eventually.
...
Just out of curiosity, how many of you who are recommending having a kid in a one-bedroom have actually done it, and how was it? How long did you do it for?

I haven't weighed in on your situation (actually my first time in a long time browsing the forum) but figured I'd chime in with our experience because we went through a lot of the same thoughts prior to starting our family and ultimately did just get on with it while living in our 1 bedroom apartment. 700 sqft, so we had a bit more room than you and of course layout matters a LOT. But we were totally sure we were going to need to move before or soon after baby was born, and didn't end up actually moving until the month she turned two, and it was totally fine. We got a mini crib (the kind roughly the same size as a pack n play) and she was in our room until we moved to our current two bedroom. Maybe not for everyone but it worked for us. If you do stay, and get pregnant (which of course could happen fast but also could take longer than you thought it would), take the time early on to really think about how your furniture fits and switch things out if you need to, to make better use of the space. We realized when we did finally move out just how silly it was we had kept our same old way too big for the space sofa, for example.

I will also say, turns out the things we thought were totally important and necessary in a home to fit what we imagined our future life with kid(s) would not all match up with what we've found we'd actually want and need now that we are 5 years into parenthood, especially since we ended up deciding just to have the one. And things our realtor told us we would care about that we shrugged off at the time, turned out she would have been right and it's good we didn't get the place we put an offer on. So you may be in a better position to buy the right home for your family after you actually see what that family looks like and needs.

That said, I also totally get the worry about being priced out of your area in future. We live in a stupid crazy real estate market and kind of did miss our window where home prices were in a range we don't consider completely insane and impossible to justify and now find ourselves rooting for everyone to be allowed to wfh forever so they will move away and we might have a chance again. Best of luck to you in figuring out what decision is best for you!

Paper Chaser

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 612
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2020, 03:58:12 AM »
What about renting a place that's a bit larger while you get your sea legs with parenting/marriage? It might get you a bit more space, while letting you figure out what's truly important to you once you have a kid.

Jon Bon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1271
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2020, 06:40:31 AM »
I'm glad I came here for advice, it's always good to get different perspectives. Everyone in real life tells me that having a baby in our small apartment is a crazy idea, but I'm starting to think it would be possible for a little while. I'm sure there must be an age limit to sharing a room with a child though.. we're going to want some privacy eventually.
...
Just out of curiosity, how many of you who are recommending having a kid in a one-bedroom have actually done it, and how was it? How long did you do it for?

I will also say, turns out the things we thought were totally important and necessary in a home to fit what we imagined our future life with kid(s) would not all match up with what we've found we'd actually want and need now that we are 5 years into parenthood, especially since we ended up deciding just to have the one. And things our realtor told us we would care about that we shrugged off at the time, turned out she would have been right and it's good we didn't get the place we put an offer on. So you may be in a better position to buy the right home for your family after you actually see what that family looks like and needs.

+1000 This! You have no idea what you will want/need/value when you add a new tiny human to your life. You are going to change big time (its good change dont worry) So in terms of some sort of forever home nonsense dont worry about that.  Sure having a baby in your micro apartment for a year might suck, but it would suck much more to buy a fancy house now that does not fit your needs 2 years from now.

As I said in the other thread realtors are in the business of managing your emotions to create a favorable outcome for themselves. So just be careful there

That said, I also totally get the worry about being priced out of your area in future. We live in a stupid crazy real estate market and kind of did miss our window where home prices were in a range we don't consider completely insane and impossible to justify and now find ourselves rooting for everyone to be allowed to wfh forever so they will move away and we might have a chance again. Best of luck to you in figuring out what decision is best for you!

.

Renting honestly might be your best option right now. Lets you have a bigger place while not being locked into a home that might not work for you long term. Hell renting is a fantastic deal right now as prices climb rents tend to be sticky.  The way RE prices are going right now its reminding me of 2005, no idea about the timing of a  reset but the word "mania" comes to mind.

charis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2271
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2020, 07:28:27 AM »
I'm glad I came here for advice, it's always good to get different perspectives. Everyone in real life tells me that having a baby in our small apartment is a crazy idea, but I'm starting to think it would be possible for a little while. I'm sure there must be an age limit to sharing a room with a child though.. we're going to want some privacy eventually.

Couple of questions:

1) Are you married or dating?
1) Just how cheap is your current rent from your family?
2) How secure are your jobs?
3) Is the location where you are looking to purchase the same location as where you live?
4) Is this location where family resides and where your employment is near?
To answer those questions:
1. common law for now, will eventually get married whenever this pandemic ends
2. about half market rate - $450
3. pretty secure but not permanent positions
4. same city, probably looking to buy in a different neighborhood though
5. we're looking at places that are in walkable and bikeable neighborhoods, reasonable public transit commute to work and reasonable drives to family and other nearby activities we do. Our current area isn't bad, but there are a couple other neighborhoods that would also fit the bill.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you who are recommending having a kid in a one-bedroom have actually done it, and how was it? How long did you do it for?

I've never done it and I never would with a baby unless the layout allowed for a quiet area for the one parent to nap/work.  If there's no where to escape the crying, it would be a no go for me. 

PMJL34

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 211
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2020, 12:24:06 PM »
OP,

Appreciate the feedback. It allows us to give you more personalized feedback.

I think that you are getting ahead of yourself. You are excited and stressing out. Completely normal :)

You aren't married yet and you aren't pregnant. Enjoy your life now. You are still multiple years away from "needing" to buy a home (not that anyone really needs to, but you get the point). There's so much that's going to change between now and then that it's not even funny.

Your current family discount, assuming your family is encouraging you to stay there, is a fantastic deal and I wouldn't give that up just to have an extra bedroom. I'm also not sure that you could find another 1 bedroom for $900 in your area so it's most likely a better deal than you think. Imagine how much money you can stash for your future house/nest egg if you stick it out there for another year or two!

To answer your question, everyone's expectations and needs are different. but here's my story.

We lived in a 500 sq ft home for the first 2 1/2 years of my first child's life, with an active medium sized dog :). It was a tiny one bedroom, but we never felt cramped. We had a queen size bed in the bedroom and a crib, a couch and TV in the room, small dining table for 3 in the kitchen/dining space (aka minimalist set up). My partner was 7 months pregnant with #2 when we moved to a 2 bedroom. We actually didn't want to move and wanted to live in that home for another year (we didn't want the stress of moving during pregnancy), but they owner raised the rent like 20% and we said no thank you.

I will say that the not all 500sq ft spaces are the same. This one had a huge and wide private front yard where we could have big birthday parties, run around freely and it was a little duplex tucked behind an already quiet street. We also had a cute backyard with fruit trees and could walk everywhere (story time at library, multiple parks, grocery store, kid's montessori). I was also like 10 minutes away form work. AND it was in west LA. 70 degrees in the winter and 80 in the summer and it never rained. So i'm not sure it's comparable, but that's our story.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 12:27:41 PM by lilbenny34 »

PMJL34

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 211
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2020, 12:27:12 PM »
charis,

No one can work or relax if the baby is crying, period. It wouldn't matter if I was in a studio or 6 bedroom. Not sure what you mean? lol

EDIT: I think I mis-read your statement. You are describing a scenario where one parent is working from home and the other parent/nanny can put the baby down without bothering you. I think that's valid if you work from home, but I've also never lived in a home where I couldn't hear a crying baby from one end of the house to the other. I would also say that it will most likely be stressful to work from home with a baby no matter what...unless you have a mansion with a detached in law unit and a full time nanny. It doesn't sound like the OP has this privilege.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 01:02:40 PM by lilbenny34 »

charis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2271
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2020, 08:04:01 PM »
charis,

No one can work or relax if the baby is crying, period. It wouldn't matter if I was in a studio or 6 bedroom. Not sure what you mean? lol

EDIT: I think I mis-read your statement. You are describing a scenario where one parent is working from home and the other parent/nanny can put the baby down without bothering you. I think that's valid if you work from home, but I've also never lived in a home where I couldn't hear a crying baby from one end of the house to the other. I would also say that it will most likely be stressful to work from home with a baby no matter what...unless you have a mansion with a detached in law unit and a full time nanny. It doesn't sound like the OP has this privilege.

I wasn't referring to working from home, but I can see how that would also apply. I've had babies in a two story 3 br house and had no trouble being out of ear shot of crying child, no mansion or detached anything. It might involve a white noise machine, but it still worked. If we couldn't take turns sleeping or relaxing with a colicky baby, we would have gone insane. On the other hand, sharing a one bedroom space with the baby was tough and definitely less sleep.

PMJL34

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 211
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2020, 08:43:48 PM »
Charis,

I'm confused.

"I've never done it and never would"

Or

"sharing a one bedroom space with the baby was tough and definitely less sleep."

Anyways, I don't think anyone is saying that it's ideal. All I'm saying is that babies doesn't need much space and it's definitely doable and families do it all the time (especially in cities). Good point about multiple floor levels. I have lived in 1 story homes only since being a parent so I didn't think about that. But, the op's choices are 450/month rent or 400k purchase. I think it's worthwhile to try it out first before committing to the large purchase.

Finally:

"agree with waiting to buy, but our lives did not change dramatically after having kids."

My life changed dramatically after having kids. So perhaps we are just very different people.

I'm glad op is getting differing opinions as there is no right or wrong answer :)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 08:49:02 PM by lilbenny34 »

charis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2271
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2020, 09:48:24 PM »
I'm not trying to argue with anyone's experience or opinion, just giving my own opinion/experience. We are all different people (I hope). It's not an "or". I said I personally wouldn't choose to live in a one bedroom apt with a baby, which is not the equivalent of saying it can't be done or that the OP should buy a 400k house. I have stayed in one with the baby and it wasn't pleasant.

Whether one's life is dramatically different after kids is probably a matter of perspective and based on one's unique circumstances, so I'd be surprised if others didn't feel differently. Though I am surprised (and amused) by the level of scrutiny being applied to my anonymous thoughts.

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2928
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2020, 08:13:14 AM »
I could have heard my babies crying from a block away, and I did live in a 1 bedroom apartment until our first child was 4 years old.

It was a fairly roomy 1 bedroom and we did not have all that much furniture anyway. The original plan was to put our stuff in the living room and the baby in the bedroom, but she did not turn out to be one of those babies who happily slept in a crib. ;-)

That apartment had many flaws, but it was nothing to do with adding a baby. We stayed in it because my dhís job was supposed to be short term but ended up lasting 5 years.

Anyway, we moved to a 2 bedroom duplex when I was pregnant with #2. That was a really nice place, and then my dh got a new job. Sigh.


PMJL34

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 211
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2020, 11:26:41 AM »
Charis,

The OP's question was: would you or have you lived in a 1 bedroom with a baby? and you answered: "I've never done it and never would"  and then the next day you stated: "sharing a one bedroom space with the baby was tough and definitely less sleep." Those are your direct quotes from you. That's why I was "scrutinizing" you.

Anyways, I really don't care and let's move on. I think every one who responded agrees that OP would benefit from slowing things down.

charis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2271
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2020, 11:49:48 AM »
Charis,

The OP's question was: would you or have you lived in a 1 bedroom with a baby? and you answered: "I've never done it and never would"  and then the next day you stated: "sharing a one bedroom space with the baby was tough and definitely less sleep." Those are your direct quotes from you. That's why I was "scrutinizing" you.

Anyways, I really don't care and let's move on. I think every one who responded agrees that OP would benefit from slowing things down.
It's a bit rich to quote me repeatedly to quibble about what's obviously a personal opinion and then declare that you don't care and that we need to move on. There are many, many people who have temporary stayed in a one bedroom apartment or hotel while traveling or visiting family/friends. 

maisymouser

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 334
  • Age: 29
  • Location: NC
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2020, 12:08:24 PM »
Sharing a room with my baby was necessary for the first 4 months. It was brutal for the next 8 months afterward. I was working full-time and getting less sleep, and had a really awful time sleep training our little guy while he was still in our bedroom. It works for some but it was hard not having the flexibility to put him in a separate bedroom. That was my own experience though. It depends on you and your baby. The first year was the hardest for me and we are having a really easy time now that he's a toddler.

I can't comment on whether or not you should buy a house or keep renting where you are, but generally I think everyone who has commented thus far have very valid points. One additional thought was, can you hold off on having a kid any longer to take advantage of your currently low rent and give you more time to save up, etc? I was one who was like "let's have a kid ASAP" and nothing was going to stop me from pulling the trigger as soon as DH was ready. Got pregnant on the first go. In retrospect, another 6-12 months wouldn't have killed me if we weren't in the right financial/living situation.

PoutineLover

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2020, 11:50:07 AM »
Yeah we could wait a little longer, even a year would probably be fine and set us up a little better, but we just don't want to wait forever and we've been thinking about it for a while. We figure it'll never be the exact perfect time, and we definitely want more than one kid.
We've been discussing quite a bit and think that we're stepping back from the house idea for now, partly cause the market just seems insane and there are bidding wars on everything good which we just don't want to get involved with.
With covid everything is kind of in upheaval anyway so maybe waiting a bit to see how things play out is a good idea on both fronts, and in the meantime work on saving up more.

maisymouser

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 334
  • Age: 29
  • Location: NC
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2020, 12:45:16 PM »
Yeah we could wait a little longer, even a year would probably be fine and set us up a little better, but we just don't want to wait forever and we've been thinking about it for a while. We figure it'll never be the exact perfect time, and we definitely want more than one kid.
We've been discussing quite a bit and think that we're stepping back from the house idea for now, partly cause the market just seems insane and there are bidding wars on everything good which we just don't want to get involved with.
With covid everything is kind of in upheaval anyway so maybe waiting a bit to see how things play out is a good idea on both fronts, and in the meantime work on saving up more.

Glad to hear you've come to this conclusion and I hope it proves to be a good one for you.

I don't think anyone can *definitely* know they want more than one kid until they have one. I've always wanted a big family, but with my first, the newborn phase was much, much harder than I anticipated and it's something I honestly could do without repeating (and we were perfectly healthy with no actual 'issues'! I have no idea how parents of colicky babies or single parents survive). This, compounded with the global climate change crisis and a desire to FIRE, gives me pause when I consider adding even one additional child to our family equation. Right now we are more seriously considering pursuing fostering and/or adoption for a couple years before deciding whether we call it and get DH a vasectomy.

Not sure how old you are but that might obviously play an important factor as well in your decision making process. We happened to be extremely fertile and got pregnant several times within a few months (and I have since accidentally gotten pregnant, even with an IUD!! it was ectopic and had to be removed, but dang). If you have any reason to think you will have fertility issues, I would totally understand not wanting to hold off on something like that for over a year.

And yeah- the market is totally insane. We moved 1 1/2 years ago after buying what I was hoping would be a stepping stone to our forever house should my now-not-so-new job work out. The job has been good but there are no signs that properties we would seriously consider are slowing their increase in value. So, we may be here longer than anticipated. It's totally manageable to live here, but I don't feel like it's 'home'. Anyway, you're not alone in wanting to move to that next step in your life, if it makes you feel any better! :)

PoutineLover

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2020, 03:00:30 PM »
You raise good point Maisymouser. Honestly we both feel very strongly that we don't want an only child and it would have to be very serious issues to make me reconsider that. I have thought about the environmental issues too and while it does matter to me, it's not a deciding factor. I'd like a little space between kids and ideally I'd want to have two by 35 and I'm 29 now so that's where the timeline is at for now. Never tried to get pregnant and never had any accidents on pill or IUD so I have no idea if I have fertility issues. Guess I'll find out!
I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as us, and it's really good to hear from you and others on it. IRL friends and family are in similar stages and I think both of us are really looking forward to the next stages of our adulthood together. I tend to overthink everything and research things to death but at some point I have to make decisions and just get on with it.

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4887
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2020, 03:19:50 PM »
It's funny how much of life boils down to an adult version of the marshmallow test.

-W

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2928
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2020, 05:41:46 AM »
It's funny how much of life boils down to an adult version of the marshmallow test.

-W

Yes, but babies are not marshmallows - the longer you wait the greater the chances are that you wonít get *any* baby, so itís not like thereís a promise that youíll get all the babies you want if youíre just patient. Not having your first baby until youíre 30 *is* waiting.

And you donít know what having a kid is like until you have one. I was sure I only wanted one until I had one, and it was so freaking fun! Hard work, yes, but joyfully so. We always joked that itís a good thing we didnít start until we were 30 or weíd have been up to our butts in babies.

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4887
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2020, 07:17:09 AM »
I agree that if you want kids, you should do it sooner rather than later.

The marshmallow test point related to buying a house that the OP doesn't currently need, just because a house seems cool, even though the current living situation is pretty ideal for her life right now.

-W

PMJL34

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 211
Re: Does it make sense for us to buy a house/condo now?
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2020, 11:21:31 AM »
We're no longer talking about real estate, but...

If you want to have a child now, then start trying now. As OP mentioned, there's never a perfect time and today is as good as any day assuming you have the right partner/support system in place.

Also, OP, be cautious about your expectations. Life doesn't give a shit about our plans :) We need to be able to take the punches and remain flexible. Saying that you want multiple children today may not be the best line of thought. As Cranky and others have mentioned, just take it slow. Get pregnant, give birth, enjoy it for a while, and then reassess.

Best of luck!

PS marshmallows are a lot like babies, they are both small, squishy and smell good...just cheaper and yummier ;)
 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 11:25:44 AM by PMJL34 »