Copper repipe from 12 years ago?

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,



We recently submitted an offer on a home we're interested in here in SoCal (Orange County) and are now in the counteroffer stage. We have a good shot of winning the bid but after being 'burnt' on the last place (we ultimately backed out of it), I'm much more wary of things in general as it pertains to the house, inspections, plumbing, etc.



That said, the listing description/agent mentioned that this home was repiped. At first I thought or maybe assumed it was PEX but the listing doesn't actually specify. I think the agent might have said "PEX" but he might have just been generally talking about it and needed to confirm what was used for the repipe.


I took the liberty of looking up building permit history from the local city (thanks to a local plumber who suggested it) and I see a permit from Jan/Feb 2009 for a copper repipe: "permit for copper repipe" are the exact words. So at this point I'm assuming the repipe was copper and not PEX...*unless* they did another repipe for PEX without pulling a permit between then and now.


But assuming the only repipe done was for copper back in 2009, how much should we be concerned about things like A) how good of a job was done B) longevity/durability of the copper lines/fittings as far as there not being another leak in the foreseeable future and C) anything else?

[fishnfool]

I wouldn't let a re-pipe with copper worry me too much. Nothing wrong with copper if it was done professionally. You might want to add a water softener if you are in a area with hard water, it will help prevent calcium buildup. But all in all not a deal breaker IMO.

Good luck with your new potential home purchase!

[former player]

Copper piping is great.  There is only one potential problem, which is that the joints weren't soldered properly and too much flux was used, which will eventually cause problems.  If the joints you/your house inspector can see are clean and neat you should be fine.  And honestly, even if they are not, at the price you are likely paying the cost of getting the plumbing re-done years down the line if necessary is what, 1% of the purchase price?

If the joints do fail, they won't do so without warning in a big rush.  You will be able to see them deteriorate over the years and take your time to get them re-done.  Also, it's quite likely that they can be repaired/replaced without doing much damage to the fabric of the house - a house I inherited needed the copper piping redone and the plumbers were able to redo all of it using the crawlspace, cupboards and other voids and left the place immaculate.

[Model96]

Here in Australia, hard soldered copper piping is the best piping available, and hopefully that is how the piping was done in the house. More modern 'crimped' copper or plastic simply won't last more than a generation.

[Metalcat]

I've lived in a lot of very old homes, all with copper piping, and never had a problem with it. As pp said, if it's done well, it lasts forever. My current place has all copper piping from '71, it's in great condition.

[Fishindude]

PEX Isn't necessarily better than copper, it's just cheaper, easier to work with and requires less skill.   That's why it is the dominant plumbing material in use.

[Sibley]

Copper has been in use far longer than PEX, with a much more consistent track record of durability, longevity, and reliability. I would be significantly more concerned if it had been repiped with PEX, because there are plenty of known examples of older PEX failing. Plus, any idiot can run PEX. That doesn't mean it's done right.

I remember reading a thread on here a while ago about PEX. You should go find it. There are plenty of legit concerns - and even if the track record has improved more recently you simply don't have the decades of solid results that you get with copper. (There's a lot of people who have irrational/ignorance based issues with PEX. I consider the overall history of PEX to be worth of concern, as well as the fact that is it cheaper and easier, thus any idiot CAN run PEX. Bad DIY with something as critical as plumber is a serious concern to me, thus I'm wary of PEX that I can't verify the competence of the installer.)

I would be more curious why it was repiped. You don't do that on a whim. It could be as simple as they originally used the whatever type of pipe that is failing en mass with age, I forget which it was. If the house was originally built with galvanized, that's solid pipe but it rusts out and thus has a shorter lifespan than copper. My house has mostly been repiped with copper, probably because the original galvanized bit the dust. Knowing the history of the major systems can be a good thing.

[jeromedawg]

Copper has been in use far longer than PEX, with a much more consistent track record of durability, longevity, and reliability. I would be significantly more concerned if it had been repiped with PEX, because there are plenty of known examples of older PEX failing. Plus, any idiot can run PEX. That doesn't mean it's done right.

I remember reading a thread on here a while ago about PEX. You should go find it. There are plenty of legit concerns - and even if the track record has improved more recently you simply don't have the decades of solid results that you get with copper. (There's a lot of people who have irrational/ignorance based issues with PEX. I consider the overall history of PEX to be worth of concern, as well as the fact that is it cheaper and easier, thus any idiot CAN run PEX. Bad DIY with something as critical as plumber is a serious concern to me, thus I'm wary of PEX that I can't verify the competence of the installer.)

I would be more curious why it was repiped. You don't do that on a whim. It could be as simple as they originally used the whatever type of pipe that is failing en mass with age, I forget which it was. If the house was originally built with galvanized, that's solid pipe but it rusts out and thus has a shorter lifespan than copper. My house has mostly been repiped with copper, probably because the original galvanized bit the dust. Knowing the history of the major systems can be a good thing.

Thanks all. Yea, we intend to ask why it was repiped and hopefully will get any disclosures around that. The fact that I found the permit pull for it in the city records is promising as far as the job being done right though, at least... right? The home was built in 1989 so I *think* it would have been copper that was originally installed. All of the downstairs has laminate/wood flooring too, which could be a result of a slab leak that occurred and they decided to 'remodel' upon all that occurring.

[Sibley]

Actually, the house could have originally been PEX if built in 1989. If that was the case, my guess would be it failed. If there was a permit, then yeah, it's probably fine. Copper has the longest lifespan, and is also the most expensive. Which is why it's not used exclusively - people are cheap. ​And yeah, flooring can be redone after a big leak, but it can also be redone because someone didn't like the flooring. Or the dog destroyed it. Or the kids dropped paint all over.

I think your previous experience has made you jumpy and anxious, ready to assume the worst (despite multiple possibilities, not all of which are bad). This is not a helpful mindset to be in, so figure out how to get out of it.

[Model96]

Sounds like a good house. Building methods were modern enough to ensure great structural integrity, without the cheapening of methods evident in the new millenium. Another plus for copper piping is that it won't taint the taste of your water as it ages, unlike plastic.

[geekette]

There was a problem with Polybutylene pipes installed in the late 80’s (at least here on the east coast). We got our house replumbed free in '97 (with CPVC, iirc) due to a class action lawsuit.

A local friend has had multiple pinhole leaks in his copper pipes (house built in the late 70’s, I believe).

[Papa bear]

There was a run of copper from the early 90’s that failed.  They got pin hole leaks in the actual pipe.  I’ve seen that and have repaired some before. 

Normally copper pipe should last 100+ years.  PEX wasn’t around in the 80’s, it was polybutylene, which was typically grey.  It’s pex “like” I don’t really see it much, but I’ve heard there are problems.

I’ve had repipe done for galvanized steel, that will corrode and you’ll eventually lose volume as the pipes close. 

I’ve heard bad things about cpvc, and I’ve installed cpvc, but don’t have personal issues with it.

All this to say, copper repipe would be my preferred choice in a house. In my opinion, it’s still the superior choice for water supply due to longevity and antimicrobial properties.  I normally use pex now just for speed and ease.  I solder for repairs and small jobs, I can’t imagine doing an entire house in copper myself.


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[Model96]

Most plumbers under 45 years old now would have a heart attack if you suggested plumbing a whole house in hard soldered copper….

[Laserjet3051]

The 2 OC homes I lived in, one built in the 70s, the other in the 90s, had copper piping that developed a multitude of pinhole leaks requiring full home repiping with PEX. In one case, the leaking in the walls was not discovered until after it had done catastrophic damage requiring gutting several rooms.

[sonofsven]

It took me a few years to accept PEX as the "go to" piping.
My guess would be the copper was used because the client insisted on it.
Poly pipe had a tendency to split in the wallls, another construction defect class action suit.
The construction industry has a history of creating new products that are basically tested by the consumer, sometimes disastrously.

[affordablehousing]

learn what copper pipe looks like, learn what a good solder joint looks like, and inspect it yourself. EZPZ.