Asbestos in walls?

[jeromedawg]

Have any of you ever dealt with drywall containing asbestos? How big of a deal or concern is it, particularly when having to do demolition or remodeling? I've heard that you need to have an asbestos removal company come out to do all that - not sure how much it all costs. But have any of you dealt with it or gone through it?

Risks being in homes with drywall containing asbestos in the context of future remodeling or repairs?

Obviously, a natural disaster (like earthquake) seems like it would be bad but if it did enough damage to open the walls of your home, it seems like you'd have bigger issues at hand to deal with...

Put another way: if you were interested in buying a home or in escrow on one where you found out there was asbestos in drywall AND that the owners had prior water damage/mold remediation done without knowing this and used a company who didn't take the proper precautions and decontamination steps (cutting open drywall and blowing fans), would you still buy this home?

[uniwelder]

What year was the house built? I had the impression that asbestos in drywall wasn’t very common.

Anecdotally, I just finished renovating the kitchen in a 1944 home and had the drywall and plaster tested. Each of the three layers came back negative, or at least certified to less than 1%.

edited to add--- reading your other post about this house, it seems you're getting a sample tested, so you're asking this question just in case the results come back positive?

[jeromedawg]

What year was the house built? I had the impression that asbestos in drywall wasn’t very common.

Anecdotally, I just finished renovating the kitchen in a 1944 home and had the drywall and plaster tested. Each of the three layers came back negative, or at least certified to less than 1%.

edited to add--- reading your other post about this house, it seems you're getting a sample tested, so you're asking this question just in case the results come back positive?

Oops forgot about the year built. It was built 1980 - supposedly there were builders out there who were still using leftover asbestos containing drywall through 1987 even though they stopped allowing (or maybe producing?) that that type of drywall. AQMD states that any home built before 1987 (or not sure if it's 1987 and before) may have drywall containing asbestos so if the renovation is 100sq ft+ or if there's *any* amount of demolition, there is supposed to be a survey/test for clearance sent in by the contractor

But yea, I'm asking sort of in context of the other thread where we're in escrow. The test coming back positive is going to be the worst case scenario... I'm *crossing my fingers* that it's negative :T

[uniwelder]

I've never had to deal with the stuff, but do have a house with asbestos shingles and asbestos pipe insulation.  The shingles had been covered over with vinyl siding and the insulation had been wrapped in plastic and taped. 

Where I live in Virginia, the owner of a house is allowed to remove asbestos themselves--- no special permits or precautions required.  Disposal is regulated, but that really only applies if the guys at the dump are paying attention, which they never do.  From what I understand, as long as everything is wetted down so airborne dust is eliminated, there's no real health danger.  For pipe insulation in a crawlspace, that sounds pretty easy, but if removing drywall from in your house, I'm not sure how to do that practically without a huge mess.  Also, for you in California, I suppose DIY isn't an option nor is there the inclination.

In regard to whether I'd buy a house with asbestos--- Sure!  If a house is old enough to have used asbestos, I would just assume it exists and be pleasantly surprised that it doesn't, as in the case of my drywall/plaster.  Otherwise, are you just going to be limiting your future search for homes to be only built after 1987?

[jeromedawg]

I've never had to deal with the stuff, but do have a house with asbestos shingles and asbestos pipe insulation.  The shingles had been covered over with vinyl siding and the insulation had been wrapped in plastic and taped. 

Where I live in Virginia, the owner of a house is allowed to remove asbestos themselves--- no special permits or precautions required.  Disposal is regulated, but that really only applies if the guys at the dump are paying attention, which they never do.  From what I understand, as long as everything is wetted down so airborne dust is eliminated, there's no real health danger.  For pipe insulation in a crawlspace, that sounds pretty easy, but if removing drywall from in your house, I'm not sure how to do that practically without a huge mess.  Also, for you in California, I suppose DIY isn't an option nor is there the inclination.

In regard to whether I'd buy a house with asbestos--- Sure!  If a house is old enough to have used asbestos, I would just assume it exists and be pleasantly surprised that it doesn't, as in the case of my drywall/plaster.  Otherwise, are you just going to be limiting your future search for homes to be only built after 1987?

Yea, I hear about popcorn ceilings all the time and as long as it's painted over/sealed X times it's fine. Until you start scraping and breaking the stuff up lol.

For DIY they actually allow you to I think but I'm not sure I'd want to mess with this one since there's a A LOT of mold behind the wall. I don't think I'd want to deal with all that mess and risk not mitigating it sufficiently or opening another can of worms with all that.

[Metalcat]

I think what you're asking is that if there is asbestos and someone does renos without being aware of it, would that have long-term impacts on the safety of living in that home?

Not and expert, but I don't think it would matter. Not unless the house is covered in shag rug, has never been cleaned, and you plan to sniff it a lot.

The risk of asbestos is mostly from when it's being disturbed and you inhale the sharp little particles that get stuck in your lungs, and then your body can develop scarring and mesothelioma in response. So it's the asbestos dust that's really the risk, and like the sun, it usually requires a decent amount of exposure, but technically, just like you could get skin cancer from one exposure, you could also get lung cancer from one asbestos exposure, it's just not likely.

So I wouldn't expect that a home that once may have had some asbestos dust disturbed would be an ongoing substantial threat to the inhabitant. Not compared to say, a constant gas leak in the bedroom.

I once helped a friend scrape off popcorn ceiling and only years later realized it was likely asbestos, so I had piles of the dust falling right on me and making a massive mess. I asked a few oncologists I know and they told me not to worry about it. The laws exist primarily to protect people in construction who developed cancer as a direct result of unsafe work conditions from working day in and day out with asbestos dust exposure.

Asbestos in your home is a much bigger deal because of the expense of mitigating it rather than the risk of mesothelioma for the residents of the home. Asbestos probably isn't even the worst carcinogen in your home, depending on the reports you read, it's about the same as alcohol, which is pretty bad, but no one ever refused to buy a house because someone once spilled alcohol in it.

There's actually still asbestos in a ton of commercial and domestic products, it's not banned, only in materials where workers are frequently exposed to their dusts. It's still in makeup, appliances, cigarette filters, etc.

So focus on the costs that will be incurred if asbestos is found and negotiate your purchase price according to what makes sense based on those costs. And don't give it much thought beyond that.

[jeromedawg]

I think what you're asking is that if there is asbestos and someone does renos without being aware of it, would that have long-term impacts on the safety of living in that home?

Not and expert, but I don't think it would matter. Not unless the house is covered in shag rug, has never been cleaned, and you plan to sniff it a lot.

The risk of asbestos is mostly from when it's being disturbed and you inhale the sharp little particles that get stuck in your lungs, and then your body can develop scarring and mesothelioma in response. So it's the asbestos dust that's really the risk, and like the sun, it usually requires a decent amount of exposure, but technically, just like you could get skin cancer from one exposure, you could also get lung cancer from one asbestos exposure, it's just not likely.

So I wouldn't expect that a home that once may have had some asbestos dust disturbed would be an ongoing substantial threat to the inhabitant. Not compared to say, a constant gas leak in the bedroom.

I once helped a friend scrape off popcorn ceiling and only years later realized it was likely asbestos, so I had piles of the dust falling right on me and making a massive mess. I asked a few oncologists I know and they told me not to worry about it. The laws exist primarily to protect people in construction who developed cancer as a direct result of unsafe work conditions from working day in and day out with asbestos dust exposure.

Asbestos in your home is a much bigger deal because of the expense of mitigating it rather than the risk of mesothelioma for the residents of the home. Asbestos probably isn't even the worst carcinogen in your home, depending on the reports you read, it's about the same as alcohol, which is pretty bad, but no one ever refused to buy a house because someone once spilled alcohol in it.

There's actually still asbestos in a ton of commercial and domestic products, it's not banned, only in materials where workers are frequently exposed to their dusts. It's still in makeup, appliances, cigarette filters, etc.

So focus on the costs that will be incurred if asbestos is found and negotiate your purchase price according to what makes sense based on those costs. And don't give it much thought beyond that.

Thanks for clarifying with more info. Yes, we (or my wife more so) would be concerned about the fact that work had been done and now we have to go through the mess of potentially mitigating it. And also she was concerned about any future work that we'll have to do and how it would be costlier since you have to have asbestos-specific contractors coming in...
One of the remediation companies scared me a bit when talking about Procedure 5 (http://www.aqmd.gov/docs/default-source/compliance/Asbestos-Demolition-/procedure5_guidelineDC2E0081F4B7.doc and https://www.peasolutions.com/Procedure_5), so this is also why I'm asking...lol

Funny you mention the constant gas leak in the bedroom (unless you saw that from my other thread, where I think I mentioned it) but the owners actually had one... and for who knows how long (could have been years). They did get that fixed btw, and supposedly were "elated" but I think more in the sense of being relieved that the plumber finally found the source after looking around to find it for a while (it took a couple days per my understanding). I'm not sure they're as "elated" by the fact that we called it out or even thankful (though they should be IMO hahaha)

[Metalcat]

Yes, I was referring to the actual gas leak you found.

So yeah, limit your concerns to the costs involved, but that's something you don't really need to worry about until you find out if it's actually there.

You don't need to borrow worry from problems you might not even have.

Also, are you planning on demo-ing a bunch of walls for major structural renovations that would actually disturb asbestos if it's there? If so, then either stop looking at old houses, or just expect that expensive crap will come up if you do a major wall demo-ing renovation.

The chances of you finding an old ass house that you can tear apart and not have nasty surprises is pretty slim.

[jeromedawg]

Yes, I was referring to the actual gas leak you found.

Another potential can of worms with that... but I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole.

[former player]

I once bought a house with some asbestos, but it was just a couple of sheets of drywall underneath two windows - the windows were very exposed to the weather and I'm guessing had lots of leaks and condensation when they would have been single pane wooden windows and the asbestos drywall would have been replacements. I had a properly licensed firm in to deal with it in their disposable hazmat outfits and dispose of it according to regulations, and it came to a few hundred pounds.

Asbestos is basically only a problem if you don't know you've got it.  If you know you've got it you deal with it appropriately and it's not an issue.  In your million dollar house one damp and possibly mouldy wall, cause known and mitigated, should not kill the deal.

[Fishindude]

I seriously doubt if a house built in 1980 has any asbestos in it.
Regardless, it's not that big of a hazard or issue.