Author Topic: Anyone own land in the boonies?  (Read 26794 times)

daverobev

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Anyone own land in the boonies?
« on: January 11, 2014, 12:45:31 PM »
Does anyone own a few acres, or less, miles from where they live - for recreation or just for the hell of it?

Like.. you can buy an acre of land in Arizona for $1k or something. Somewhere to escape to in the middle of the Canadian winter with an RV, or build a little cabin, or... I don't know.

Sounds like a terrible idea? Probably it *is* a terrible idea. Just wondering if anyone on here has done it, and if so what they do on it...

Kristin

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 02:49:13 PM »
daverobev,

This is something my wife and I dream about all the time.  We are currently living in a row home in the center of a city to keep expenses and commuting low, but we both love to be outdoors.  I grew up on a large farm hunting and fishing, and my wife is an experienced hiker and backpacker.  We keep thinking about buying an acre or two in the mountains that we can eventually build a little cabin/house on for recreational purposes, and possibly as a future retirement home.  My big struggle is this property would be purely recreational and would not generate any income to warrant the added expense.  BUT it's what we both think about all the time.  If we were in a place where it would serve as a retreat for most or all of our annual vacations and weekend getaways, the expense might be worth it if we can find something for the right price.


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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2014, 02:55:43 PM »
I own 50 acres off the grid in SW Tennessee. It has a clean, year around creek, a few small waterfalls, and some hills. Deer, turkey, coyote, etc, as well. It's fantastic. My issue is that it doesn't generate any income for me, and I have a sizable amount of equity tied up in it that isn't doing anything else for me. Well, sizable for this part of the country. 30k or so.

So, when I run the numbers it's a clear SELL situation. The problem is I really love it out there, and I do want to own it long term. But I think the better option is to ditch it, invest the equity elsewhere, and then buy a similar property when I'm in a better financial position.

ender

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 04:26:46 PM »
Someday...

Spork

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 04:34:22 PM »
I'm not sure how "boonies" we are...   But we have about 8 acres that is probably 7-8 miles out in the country from a medium sized town.  When we bought it, it had a small metal shop on it with an apartment in it.  We lived about 100 miles away and used it for weekend fun.   Eventually I quit my job in the big city and we moved into the apartment and lived there for about 6 years before we built a house next to it.

...so if that counts as boonies... Yeah.

YK-Phil

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 05:12:59 PM »
When I lived in Yellowknife a while back (I'm back again after being away for 5 years...), I used to own a 20-acre piece of forested land just across from Osoyos (BC) in a small place called Molson right outside of Oroville WA. I paid about $1,000 an acre there, which was a steal compared to the $100,000+/acre on the other side of the border, in trendy Osoyos a stone's throw away. My dream was to build a tiny house, off the grid, and eventually move there part of the year. Unfortunately, I had to sell it a couple of years later, but I did make a small profit because the guy who owned all the land around us really wanted this lot to complete his domain. In hindsight, I am glad we sold it because while I know I could live off the grid not far from a city, I am not sure I'd enjoy living in the middle of nowhere for weeks on end.

Rural

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2014, 06:00:26 PM »
We have 25 acres, pretty boonies -- 90 miles from anything most posters here would call a city, though I'd argue there's one 30 miles away. But we rearranged our lives to live here full time and haven't regretted it for a second.

I'd be very careful about buying an acre or so. Do your homework to be sure it isn't landlocked. You could find yourself owning something you can't access legally.

Cinder

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2014, 04:57:52 AM »
I grew up in an area where it was 60 min in either direction to get to a hospital.  The DW got pretty strongly suggest that she could find a teaching position there after she did her student teaching, but it would man giving up my Software position and moving back home for a job that would make about half of what I make now.  Granted, the CoL would be much lower, but she likes it out where we are now.

Good points above for making sure it's not landlocked.  My dad owns a bunch of land (where he has his business) out here in the boonies, employes about a dozen people.  There is someone who bought/owns some land that is landlocked by my dad's property, and he keeps getting more and more desperate trying to buy some of my dad's land for access.  Odds are this guy will probably turn around and sell to a house builder if that would happen.  We're trying to keep as much of the natural flora and fauna as possible, not chop the land up and develop it. 

KingCoin

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2014, 12:56:57 PM »
I think this dream is mostly pastoral escapist fantasy (one that I occasionally have too). Once you start crunching the numbers and thinking about how you're going to use it, it generally starts looking pretty silly.

What will a few acres offer that the 84 million acre national park system doesn't?

If you want to build a house on the property, it's usually going to be much cheaper to buy an existing structure than to build from scratch, especially if you have to do a lot of improvements to the land (water, septic, access). If you're patient, you can probably pick up a cabin in "the boonies" for not much more than the value of the land that it stands on.

Keep in mind that land tends to be pretty illiquid as well, so when you get tired of the yearly tax bill on some property you never use, it may be tough to get rid of. I recall this train-wreck posted here not too long ago:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/selling-a-piece-of-land-but-i-want-to-get-my-money-back-advice-needed/

This is very much like buying a vacation home. It scratches a consumptive itch, but often creates more problems than it solves, and is at the very least a very poor financial decision.

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2014, 01:16:40 PM »
What will a few acres offer that the 84 million acre national park system doesn't?

If you want to build a house on the property, it's usually going to be much cheaper to buy an existing structure than to build from scratch, especially if you have to do a lot of improvements to the land (water, septic, access). If you're patient, you can probably pick up a cabin in "the boonies" for not much more than the value of the land that it stands on.

I don't know about 'a few acres', but the general answer is privacy and the ability to develop it as you see fit. From an investment standpoint, it's a bust (as you say), but depending on what you want from it and where you live, it can be a bust on the level of buying a used motorcycle or so.

daverobev

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2014, 02:00:37 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking off grid, composting (or just an RV). Self sufficiency comes to mind as a driver.. somewhere I *could* have chickens, bees, pigs as/when I wanted to (though this doesn't work for the super cheap land in the US as I'm not a US citizen; and doing it in Ontario, while entirely possible, is bloody cold in the winter and I'm rapidly realising I HATE it (the cold)).

I guess the idea of a retreat is sometimes as good as the retreat. I'm enjoying the vandwelling, and tiny cabin, vids on youtube.


Spork

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 05:17:08 PM »
Keep in mind that land tends to be pretty illiquid as well, so when you get tired of the yearly tax bill on some property you never use, it may be tough to get rid of.

Large parcels of land are generally classified as agricultural and the tax is stupid, stupid cheap.  The tax on "the non-homestead portion" of my land is about $20 a year.

It's not for everyone.  And it is somewhat more expensive.  But once I've lived a little bit in the country, I don't think I want to go back.

capital

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2014, 05:36:02 PM »
Does anyone own a few acres, or less, miles from where they live - for recreation or just for the hell of it?

Like.. you can buy an acre of land in Arizona for $1k or something. Somewhere to escape to in the middle of the Canadian winter with an RV, or build a little cabin, or... I don't know.

Sounds like a terrible idea? Probably it *is* a terrible idea. Just wondering if anyone on here has done it, and if so what they do on it...
If you just want to escape to the desert in an RV, BLM land allows you to park an RV pretty much anywhere for two weeks at a time:
Quote
Dispersed camping is generally allowed on public lands for no more than a period of 14 days within any period of 28 consecutive days.  The 14-day limit may be reached either through a number of separate visits or through 14 days of continuous overnight occupation during the 28-day period.  After this time period, you must relocate to another site at least 25 miles away.  The purpose of this is to prevent damage to sensitive resources caused by continual use of any particular areas.
Those two weeks are unlikely to be enforced unless someone actually knows you're there, which might take a while to happen if you're in the middle of nowhere. There is a LOT of BLM land:
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 05:37:44 PM by ehgee »

KingCoin

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2014, 06:26:23 PM »
Large parcels of land are generally classified as agricultural and the tax is stupid, stupid cheap.  The tax on "the non-homestead portion" of my land is about $20 a year.

It's not for everyone.  And it is somewhat more expensive.  But once I've lived a little bit in the country, I don't think I want to go back.

Yeah. I guess if you want to move off the grid, this makes sense. But as a means to "get away from it all", there are probably 20 better ways to get some remote privacy than to buy a big parcel of land.

_JT

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2014, 08:52:23 PM »
I'd be interested in hearing as many as you cared to name. Seriously.

dragoncar

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2014, 08:57:34 PM »
I'd be interested in hearing as many as you cared to name. Seriously.

Ditto

KingCoin

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2014, 09:19:48 PM »
I'd be interested in hearing as many as you cared to name. Seriously.

eghee just offered up a great one. There are like a zillion acres of unoccupied land in North America that you're free to explore or even temporarily squat on without owning.  There are like a zillion more where at most you'll run into an occasional hiker. How much privacy do you really need? Even in Manhattan, there are countless places within a two hour radius where I'm unlikely to run into a soul.

Another obvious solution is to just get on homeaway or airbnb and rent some place in the boonies. Get your own little Walden Pond setup for a week or a month, and then leave, not having to worry about frozen pipes, termites, or a leaky roof. 

Yes, if you want to do some legitimate homesteading, you'll want to own something, but then we're talking about something else entirely. The OP seemed to be looking for a retreat from daily life and the cold, which I read as a vacation place. 

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2014, 09:40:20 PM »
So, it sounds like your two suggestions are to (1) squat, or (2) rent temporarily. Both viable options for temporary 'getting away from it all', I grant you, provided you don't have any interest in homesteading, and are located near those zillion acres.

I dunno, the way I'm doing it is a major loser from the money side (which is why my land is being listed for sale), but I think I might prefer a one time expenditure of 10k for a few acres (bordered by BLM, private, or nat'l forest) + rustic cabin to squatting or renting. Which is very possible in the SE US, by and large. We'll see once my money is working better for me whether I still think it's worth that, though.

Really, my fingers are crossed that my parents find a place that I can just use for free. :)

eliandjax1

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2014, 11:24:01 PM »
I own 10 acres that backs up to the current river in Missouri. Finacially it produces zero however we use it two weeks a year to vacation in the rv. The family loves it and we really can get away as it is offgrid. We used to use it much more often however we moved 800 miles away so can't use it on weekends any more. I have thought about selling but taxes are nothing (less than 50 $ a year) and we enjoy it. I figure if nothing else its neat being able to own recreational land to keep and pass down in the family.

Argyle

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2014, 12:15:58 AM »
I used to know someone who bought a parcel of wilderness in Colorado.  It was miles from anywhere and had no water on the property so it was strictly a camping proposition.  They went out once to see it, and had to hike in.  The dream of it made them happy, but that being said, eventually they died without ever being able to do anything with the property.

On the other hand, I read a book by a guy who acquired some wilderness property in the Oregon Coast Range and hand-built a log cabin there and seemed to have a pretty idyllic life living there with his family in the summers.  The book is Cabin Fever by William L. Sullivan worth a look as to how somebody made it work.  http://www.oregonhiking.com/navillus-press/adventure-memoirs/cabin-fever.  It helped that he had a lot of construction skills that I simply will never have like making his own chairs instead of having to hike them in.  I guess if you got someplace with road access that wouldn't be an issue.  (Though I imagine someplace with road access would cost more.)

SnackDog

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2014, 05:15:03 AM »
I've seen land in West Texas for as little as $15 an acre. Of course, that was all it was worth! 

Happyback

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2014, 01:44:04 PM »
Yep. I bought a piece of land last month.  It was part of my plan for the last 2 years:

I am a divorced mom of 7 children.  We just sold our temporary McMansion! YEA! We bought the house on short sale 2 years ago (50% of it's value), lived there and remodeled it, and now sold it (in 10 days!) for a BEAUTIFUL, HUGE profit!  So, I bought a piece of land with cash I had saved (8 acres-3 meadow, 5 woods) about 7 miles from the local college and hospital.  But, there is almost nothing in that 7 miles! So, it's out in the country, across the street from the river (I have the oldest irrigation rights on that river, too!).  I will now take the profit and build a completely self sustaining, off grid, new cottage-- much like the place I was in before (MUCH smaller house in town--but BEAUTIFUL, and would work even better in the country!
Downsized the home substantially, and now I'm going to be independent, off grid (but within biking of school and work), and 100% paid for!!!! (And, I'm building it with tax free money, because the profit I made was barely within the capital gains tax limits!) And, we will build as much as we can ourselves, keeping costs reasonable, but end up with a new, super energy efficient passive solar home with few (if any) repairs for years to come! The kids are super stoked! I'm super stoked!

And, I didn't have to touch my retirement accounts at all! :D  After this is built (est 6 months), because it's off grid, and paid for, my living expenses will drop 80% from the current, leaving me to live off 20% of my income, and save 80%!!!!!!!!!!
(**Seriously dancing over here!!!**)

That's what I did with my land in the "boonies".

gimp

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2014, 01:59:38 PM »
That's the plan. A huge plot of land somewhere that it takes days to drive to. And maybe a small cabin on it.

CptCool

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2014, 02:01:38 PM »
Plenty of remote land available in alaska. Can even purchase it online w/ a credit card (paid off in full of course - only for the cashback)

http://dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/landsale/otc/

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2014, 03:56:40 PM »
In my new job, I'm seeing TONS of people who've done that (built a little cabin out in the sticks). Other people have really nice houses out there. I attached a pic of a little cabin I was standing outside of a few hours ago. Just off the peak of a pretty steep hill (we had to use rope to get down one side), it opened up into a very pretty meadow, with a pond and a nice log cabin. Only road leading in was a little ATV path winding up the slope, coming off a gravel country road. Throw some solar panels on the roof, maybe some rain-catching apparatus, and you have a very cool little getaway! Land is not that expensive around there from what I understand.

gimp

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2014, 07:41:22 PM »
CptCool: Fuck, now "tracts of land" are on my list of possible impulse purchases. Credit card limit is high enough. Could be paid off quickly. Un/fortunately, none of those are quite what I want. I'd like something more... here. 10 or 20 acres. Accessible by road, since I don't own a plane.

angelagrace

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2014, 03:47:55 PM »
Anyone had any success in investing in land near town? Like with it going up in value as towns sprawl?

I'd like to get some off-grid land and build a little cabin too :)

Rezdent

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2014, 06:00:57 PM »
We have 25 acres, pretty boonies -- 90 miles from anything most posters here would call a city, though I'd argue there's one 30 miles away. But we rearranged our lives to live here full time and haven't regretted it for a second.

I'd be very careful about buying an acre or so. Do your homework to be sure it isn't landlocked. You could find yourself owning something you can't access legally.
Other than access, the other biggie is water.  Don't just take a sellers word about availability;  you might be within X district but where I live that could translate into years of waiting for water.  Rainwater can work fine but the climate has to average enough for someone to live on.
I pass the county water spigot (yep...1 spigot for the county) often.  There's always a line of trucks with big tanks buying water to haul home - not fun.
Without reliable water the land is not livable.

Rural

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2014, 07:16:10 AM »
We have 25 acres, pretty boonies -- 90 miles from anything most posters here would call a city, though I'd argue there's one 30 miles away. But we rearranged our lives to live here full time and haven't regretted it for a second.

I'd be very careful about buying an acre or so. Do your homework to be sure it isn't landlocked. You could find yourself owning something you can't access legally.
Other than access, the other biggie is water.  Don't just take a sellers word about availability;  you might be within X district but where I live that could translate into years of waiting for water.  Rainwater can work fine but the climate has to average enough for someone to live on.
I pass the county water spigot (yep...1 spigot for the county) often.  There's always a line of trucks with big tanks buying water to haul home - not fun.
Without reliable water the land is not livable.


True enough, but that's also climate-dependent. Here, we'd just drop a well. It's an expense, but the water's down there. Where you live, maybe not so much.


But it's critical to verify the availability of any utility you want with the company or municipality that provides it, not with the seller.

Left

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2014, 08:05:37 AM »
I own 50 acres off the grid in SW Tennessee. It has a clean, year around creek, a few small waterfalls, and some hills. Deer, turkey, coyote, etc, as well. It's fantastic. My issue is that it doesn't generate any income for me, and I have a sizable amount of equity tied up in it that isn't doing anything else for me. Well, sizable for this part of the country. 30k or so.

So, when I run the numbers it's a clear SELL situation. The problem is I really love it out there, and I do want to own it long term. But I think the better option is to ditch it, invest the equity elsewhere, and then buy a similar property when I'm in a better financial position.
I know someone with land too, and rents it out. Friend's parents rents out their cabin there during hunting season to people, think they charged $200/weekend or $500/week. Since they aren't at cabin that often and the hunters are fairly well behaved since they just want to hunt, they get decent income from it. They rent it as a weekend get away outside of hunting season.

If I had that kind of land, I'd put in a water mill/turbine (you said waterfalls/creek) if it is deep enough and sell the electricity back to grid for some income that is self generating.

I really considered buying a large piece of land somewhere "wild" with a good creek/pond or lake then using it for my home base while I live in the city. Since it'd be off the grid, I wouldn't have much bills to pay for it and it just sits there. But then I changed my mind since I don't like the "outdoors", camping to me equal at least a cabin/bed near civilization :D

sly

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2014, 07:37:26 AM »
I day dream about it often. At the same time I know it's a bit of a suckers dream. Unless you are going to invest in it heavily and build a home what is the point of owning land? how often are you actually going to visit? will you USE the land for something (farming, hunting)? 

mooreprop

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2014, 07:53:13 AM »
The best way to buy undeveloped land is to buy a parcel that has road frontage that can be subdivided and sold.  For example, my husband and I purchased 16+ acres for $80,000.  We subdivided 3 lots on the road frontage and an access area between them.  Sold the lots for a little over $80,000 and kept the remaining approximately 15 acres which were now essentially free!  We were told that we could probably put in a road and sell the remaining land as lots for profit but decided that would be way too much stress.  Instead, we walk on our trails through the area and watch the deer and several endangered species that seem to appreciate our "nature retreat".   When the deer begin to overpopulate, we let a friend who hunts take 2 (one for himself and one for us), so we get free meat off our free land too.  I love having the ability to keep this land without it costing anything. 

arebelspy

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2014, 05:43:17 PM »
Does anyone own a few acres, or less, miles from where they live - for recreation or just for the hell of it?

Like.. you can buy an acre of land in Arizona for $1k or something. Somewhere to escape to in the middle of the Canadian winter with an RV, or build a little cabin, or... I don't know.

Sounds like a terrible idea? Probably it *is* a terrible idea. Just wondering if anyone on here has done it, and if so what they do on it...

Lots of people talk about it, or dream about it (this thread has plenty of evidence of that), but it's rare enough that when it happens, it's worth sharing.

Here's Lacking Ambition's post on doing exactly that (archive.org, as site is dead):
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627182220/http://lackingambition.com/?p=423

He ended up going back and getting a law degree and becoming FI in just a few years through real estate, but that post always inspires me.
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gimp

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2014, 06:49:03 PM »
Incredible, reb. Thank you.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2014, 07:58:20 PM »
I used to think owning land was a good idea but...

You have to pay taxes

You have to have insurance in case some dumbass gets hurt on your property

You have to clean up the mess when some dumbass decides your remote property is cheaper than the county landfill

Now I just use Uncle Sam's property.  He has a lot of it and he pays the taxes, insurance, and cleanup.

FrugalZony

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2014, 12:49:46 PM »
Yep. I bought a piece of land last month.  It was part of my plan for the last 2 years:

I am a divorced mom of 7 children.  We just sold our temporary McMansion! YEA! We bought the house on short sale 2 years ago (50% of it's value), lived there and remodeled it, and now sold it (in 10 days!) for a BEAUTIFUL, HUGE profit!  So, I bought a piece of land with cash I had saved (8 acres-3 meadow, 5 woods) about 7 miles from the local college and hospital.  But, there is almost nothing in that 7 miles! So, it's out in the country, across the street from the river (I have the oldest irrigation rights on that river, too!).  I will now take the profit and build a completely self sustaining, off grid, new cottage-- much like the place I was in before (MUCH smaller house in town--but BEAUTIFUL, and would work even better in the country!
Downsized the home substantially, and now I'm going to be independent, off grid (but within biking of school and work), and 100% paid for!!!! (And, I'm building it with tax free money, because the profit I made was barely within the capital gains tax limits!) And, we will build as much as we can ourselves, keeping costs reasonable, but end up with a new, super energy efficient passive solar home with few (if any) repairs for years to come! The kids are super stoked! I'm super stoked!

And, I didn't have to touch my retirement accounts at all! :D  After this is built (est 6 months), because it's off grid, and paid for, my living expenses will drop 80% from the current, leaving me to live off 20% of my income, and save 80%!!!!!!!!!!
(**Seriously dancing over here!!!**)

That's what I did with my land in the "boonies".

This sounds just amazing!!! Are you planning to share your journey?
I would love to hear more about this!

shotgunwilly

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2014, 02:21:45 PM »
My family owns about 150 acres with a small house on it that we use just for hunting.  We lease the land to a rancher for grazing.

My dad has owned several of these chunks of land at different times.  He bought about 360 acres, we hunted on it, in 7 years it tripled in value, he sold it and bought one about 150 acres, in 3 years that one doubled in value, he sold it, and bought the place we have now. 

MicroRN

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2014, 10:46:55 PM »
That's what I'd love to do.  I'm a horse person, and would love a little 10-15 acre homestead for full time living.  Keep a couple horses, a couple goats, some chickens, and a huge garden.  Have some of it in pasture, but hopefully some wooded as well.  We're keeping an eye out for land that's hacking distance to a state or national park with riding trails.     

Elderwood17

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Re: Anyone own land in the boonies?
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2014, 09:06:44 PM »
While living in the Kansas City area we bought 67 acres about an hour south on the Kansas side.  I wanted a place to hunt, fish, ride atvs and good around on.  Loved it.  Converted some pasture land back to native grass, etc.  the prices starting climbing for recreation land and I thought ot wpuld continue so i bought 101 acres on the Missouri side.  That way I could but two states!  I lease out part of it to a local rancher who puts cattle put in the spring and keeps it mowed, etc, for me.  That piece is really cool and the dream is to retire in a tiny house there.  Right now we are keeping the two places but I know I could do better selling them and putting the money to work a bit more effectively!