Author Topic: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other  (Read 2657 times)

chasingsnow

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Let me start this by saying I am NOT a real estate investor, I am a (hopefully) soon to be first time home buyer. That being said, I do have a background in planning and architecture and have worked as a carpenter before so I do have some relevant skills to bring to the table here.

We live in small town BC, where the average house price is around $500k.Me and DW combined income is $170k and I am 29 and she is 27, respectively. We have about $230k in net worth in a mix of investments and short term GICs (downpayment portion).

Here is the housing situation: There are two houses for sale on a street side by side in our small town in a location we love (its close to the grocery store, the library, our friends, the trail head, a park etc).

House A: This is the main house we would live in. Its a 4 bedroom 1 bathroom (with a second bathroom with the plumbing done already roughed in). Its about 1500 sqft but its a bungalow with 3 bedrooms downstairs, so the layout is sort of weird. It has some nice features but overall we are probably $20-$30k from it being in really good shape. It would require a cosmetic kitchen renovation (painting the cupboards, re doing the tile floor, new appliances, new counter top), finishing the roughed-in bathroom in the basement, and a bunch of paint and some drywall finishing in other places. This is the house we would probably live in and fix up ourselves. We would put 5% down so roughly $20k at an offer of $350k (contingent on a home inspection) giving us a mortgage of roughly $2k a month with a 5% interest rate.  I think over a couple years we could probably get the house where we want it but it would require some sweat equity. It's also worth noting the house has been on the market for 3+ months, everyone agrees it is priced too high at $400k currently, knowing that I dont think we would offer more than $350k and would be prepared to walk away.

House B: The house next door, its a small 2 bedroom 1 bathroom, it's not necessarily dated but it doesn't necessarily have high-end fixtures either. Think a 50-50 split between your grandmother's house and Ikea. As a rental though it's probably a fine place to live in an up and coming location and it wouldn't require too much work to rent it as is. It's probably around 1000sqft upstairs and has an unfinished basement only accessible from the back of the house. The basement is as bare bones as it gets and the foundation has some signs of cracking (we would obviously get a home inspection). The house has also been on the market for 3+ months listed at $319k. We think we would offer in the $270-$280k range and put 20% (you have to for a rental) so a downpayment of $50k meaning a mortage of roughly $1,250 per month. Places in our area typically rent for $1,500-$1800 for a 2 bedroom depending on location, size, finishings etc. The property tax on the house would be roughly $1.8k and we could roll this into the rental price.

My main thought is that our town is on the verge of exploding, it was recently named BC's best small town and has a ski resort in town. Other communities with ski resorts in town around us have an average house price between $700k-$900k. I also feel like we have a lot of friends in town and finding friends to rent it out wouldn't be very difficult and there is generally a shortage of rentals in our area. The current zoning also allows us to build up to 10 units on each lot and if we amalgamated the lots down the road, I could easily see the property being bought for development knowing you would build 20 units on 2 traditionally single-family lots.

Obviously, as a non real estate investor, I am curious about what I should be looking out for. Are there any additional advantages I am not thinking of to buying two houses side by side? Anything that would concern you about the above information? Thanks in advance for your feedback!!

Dicey

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2023, 06:43:17 PM »
It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but I'm in a different stage of life. One problem could be if you didn't like being a LL or didn't like your tenant, it would be hard to get away from them. That said, I'd just choose the tenant very carefully. If you buy, buy for what the town is right now and don't expect anything to change. Speculating on future growth is...speculation.

SpinWave0704

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2023, 08:26:45 PM »
Do you or your DW have aging parents? If so, and if you can afford it, then being able to move them into a a small house next door (sometime down the line) seems kind of ideal. YMMV, ofc. Just another non-investment perspective.

chasingsnow

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2023, 08:06:30 PM »
After chatting about it more with DW I am less bullish on this idea. The problem really is House A (the nicer of the two houses). It has such an odd layout, it has the master bedroom upstairs and then three small bedrooms downstairs which is also where the woodstove is. We want to have kids in the next 3-5 years and I just cant imagine a world where we have a 4 and 7-year-old on a separate lower level with the woodstove. The other trouble is that aside from doing a massive addition off of the back of the house, there isn't really a way to fix this cringy layout problem. My other thought is that if we are thinking this, then other folks probably are too which is why the house has sat on the market for > 100 days.

PMJL34

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2023, 08:27:40 PM »
I agree with you that houses side by side are rarely listed for the sale at the same time in a decent location.

I also really like that you have background with buildings. You are also very young and have time on your side to make the homes shine.

However, I looked at (what I believe) are the two houses/listings you are referring to and there is zero indication outside looking in that this city: 1)has a median home price of 500k 2) that it is on the "verge of exploding" 3) zero indication that a developer will buy both properties and build 20 units when all homes around you are SFH and huge lots and space in every direction that you can see lol.

Like Dicey said, if you want to buy them, buy them with zero speculation.

Best of luck!

chasingsnow

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2023, 08:40:10 PM »
I agree with you that houses side by side are rarely listed for the sale at the same time in a decent location.

I also really like that you have background with buildings. You are also very young and have time on your side to make the homes shine.

However, I looked at (what I believe) are the two houses/listings you are referring to and there is zero indication outside looking in that this city: 1)has a median home price of 500k 2) that it is on the "verge of exploding" 3) zero indication that a developer will buy both properties and build 20 units when all homes around you are SFH and huge lots and space in every direction that you can see lol.

Like Dicey said, if you want to buy them, buy them with zero speculation.

Best of luck!

The price of the properties in town went up 25% year over year last year. The population also went up by 10% over the last census period thats HUGE for a small town of <10,000.  You can certainly argue that some of that price increase is attributed to low interest rates (which are no longer low) but there is a growing demand for the area. Our town also won a national news contest as "the best small town in BC" which has set tourism and migration off the charts. The province is set to make new changes to land use planning soon forcing every local government to allow up to 5-10 units on what was previously a single family lot.

Is the median home price $500k? Its probably a bit below that you are right. Is a developer going to buy it today? Of course not, but like you said I am young and have time on my side. Either way I dont think the houses are going to pan out for the reasons listed above, I appreciate you correcting my optimistic exagerated takes further up the thread ;)

Dicey

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2023, 08:58:54 AM »
Not trying to talk you into it, just want to give you something different to think about. You don't have kids yet. You don't actually need a "Primary" bedroom. You could have a small downstairs "sleeping" room and use the upstairs space as a retreat. Later it could become a nursery, playroom, homeschooling space, or family room. Thinking outside the box is kind of a misnomer. Thinking inside the box is how you find deals that other people overlook, because they don't know how to do it.


BTW, it is now referred to as the "Primary" or "Owner's" BR, but no law says it must be the biggest sleeping space in the structure nor must it have an ensuite bathroom.

SunnyDays

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2023, 10:25:34 AM »
Not trying to talk you into it, just want to give you something different to think about. You don't have kids yet. You don't actually need a "Primary" bedroom. You could have a small downstairs "sleeping" room and use the upstairs space as a retreat. Later it could become a nursery, playroom, homeschooling space, or family room. Thinking outside the box is kind of a misnomer. Thinking inside the box is how you find deals that other people overlook, because they don't know how to do it.


BTW, it is now referred to as the "Primary" or "Owner's" BR, but no law says it must be the biggest sleeping space in the structure nor must it have an ensuite bathroom.

That's exactly what I was thinking.  You could always convert 2 of the downstairs bedrooms into one larger one, with perhaps enough room left over for an ensuite.

chasingsnow

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2023, 04:47:31 PM »
I guess part of the challenge is that the downstairs bedrooms are spread out and its really hard to envision a design that allows you to have a family on multiple levels, I know how to draft houses and do home design and I am struggling to see a way to incorporate an appropriate house lay out that supports a family in the future...

Dicey

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2023, 11:08:52 PM »
I guess part of the challenge is that the downstairs bedrooms are spread out and its really hard to envision a design that allows you to have a family on multiple levels, I know how to draft houses and do home design and I am struggling to see a way to incorporate an appropriate house lay out that supports a family in the future...
Uh, something that would have been good to know yesterday!

ChpBstrd

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2023, 10:19:51 AM »
The Next-Door Thing:
Much of the job of being a LL - if you choose the hands-on route - consists of doing maintenance. It would be a lot more time-efficient to not have to drive to your rental unit to do that maintenance. All your tools, etc. would be a few steps away and you could catch developing problems early (e.g. overflowing gutters, frozen faucets, tenants not doing lawn care, junk cars). Similarly, showing the place to potential tenants would involve a lot less driving back and forth. Plus you could keep a better eye on the property, and your tenants would be less likely to try to sneak 5 dogs in.

The Floor Plan Thing for House A:
After chatting about it more with DW I am less bullish on this idea. The problem really is House A (the nicer of the two houses). It has such an odd layout, it has the master bedroom upstairs and then three small bedrooms downstairs which is also where the woodstove is. We want to have kids in the next 3-5 years and I just cant imagine a world where we have a 4 and 7-year-old on a separate lower level with the woodstove.
The solution is to drop the assumption you have to sleep in the "master bedroom":
     1) Move into one of the 3 downstairs bedrooms. All you really need is space for a bed! This solves the lack of supervision problem.
     2) Use another of the 3 downstairs bedrooms into a massive walk-in closet. This solves the small bedroom problem.
     3) Put the kid or kids in the 3rd bedroom (you have plenty of bedrooms to work with).
     4) Use the larger upstairs bedroom as a guest room, hobby room, office, exercise room, home theater, etc.
     5) As the kid / kids grow older, there is the possibility of moving them, or yourselves, upstairs.
     6) Use a sturdy barrier around the wood stove when it is in use if you have toddlers around.
This solution also leaves open the possibility of only heating the downstairs, saving money on utilities.

You could live in the MBR until pregnancy.

On the 2BR House B:
How many kids are you having? If you can commit to one, the 2BR house will minimize your expenses. As the former owner of a large house, I can assure you the sight of unused bedrooms / bathrooms can get on the nerves of efficiency-minded people. Also, the 4BR house will cost you more in insurance, heat, taxes, and probably maintenance items too.

If you're not sure you can commit to one kid, consider that you have a 50% chance of the 2nd kid being the same gender as the first, which would allow for a long-term room sharing situation. If you're primarily committed to reaching FIRE, this sort of minimalism might be the best path.

On Real Estate Speculation:
But then again, you said you wanted to make a leveraged bet on house prices increasing in your town and the 2BR option might leave you with FOMO if your thesis pans out. If you bought both houses and rented out the larger one, could the larger house be cashflow positive while you enjoyed the lower expenses of living in the smaller house? Then, if at some point in the future you decide to have 3 kids, you just move over to House A and start renting House B.

I do not know much about the mortgage rules in Canada, but in the US you have to put more money down and pay a higher interest rate for investment properties than for live-in properties. However, once the deal is done nobody comes back to check if you're actually living in a house you mortgaged as a primary residence. Thus a lot of people buy a primary residence and then move in a couple of years and rent it out. 

chasingsnow

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2023, 11:40:26 AM »
These are great points and a good example of thinking outside of the box, I think some of it will depend on how amendable the seller is to a below market offer, which I imagine there is at least a chance of given how long the properties have been on the market. DW is travelling for work this week but we will go see it next week and decide if we want to make an offer or not.

RWD

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2023, 11:47:58 AM »
I've read this somewhere - and I might be wrong, please research and confirm.

If 2 houses next to each other is owned by same person ,then I believe that they have to be sold together..  (read line 1)
There's no way this is true

Dicey

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Re: (CAN) Help me evaluate if I should buy two houses next door to each other
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2023, 06:12:20 PM »
I've read this somewhere - and I might be wrong, please research and confirm.

If 2 houses next to each other is owned by same person ,then I believe that they have to be sold together..  (read line 1)
There's no way this is true
Depends on how they are deeded.

 

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