Author Topic: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains  (Read 2646 times)

FatFI2025

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"Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« on: January 05, 2021, 06:39:57 AM »
Would I be a moron for doing this?

- Buy a 15 acre lot in 2021 for $350K using 1031 funds
- Build out off-grid solar, well, small 800 sqft cabin (permitted as ADU) in 2023; total est. cost $240K
- Build 2,500 sqft main cabin in 2025; total est. cost $625K
- Purchase and both builds to be financed at 75% LTV
- Final value after both builds ???

The rest of my story is that I'll be working in LA for another 10 years. $250K annual salary before tax and retirement contributions. I also plan to buy a ~$1M 4 br. home in 2022 and have three roomies to help with the mortgage.

I'd potentially move into this compound as my main retirement residence after I quit working in 2031. While I know it's probably not the optimal use of my funds over this time period, I'm considering it as a long term project to stay busy over the next decade.

Feedback and/or face punches appreciated! ;)

waltworks

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2021, 09:40:26 AM »
I'm not sure even the first step makes sense. A 1031 has to be like-kind... a building lot for a cabin you plan to live in won't fly if you're 1031-ing out of a rental property of some sort.

Otherwise, yeah, it's a bad plan, since it sounds like you mostly want to do it because you're bored and somehow plan to keep being bored for a decade (?!?) There are cheaper ways to alleviate boredom while your money works for you in some actual investment.

-W

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2021, 10:30:54 AM »
What mountain area of SoCal? I lived in the Big Bear area and there were lots of building restrictions (I.e. septic systems, wells, land use,, road and inf4astructure requirements, etc) that often changed over the years and could impact future builds.

Also, most places in SoCal will not let you build and live in an ADU unless you have the main house built already. And permits can take 2 years for new builds too.

FWIW I'd not do it. Invest that money and see where you are and what you want in 10 - 15 years.

trollwithamustache

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2021, 10:32:10 AM »
is this an "investment" or is this something you really really want? 'cause there is a big difference between the two, and the latter might make it OK.

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2021, 06:03:12 PM »
Thanks for the replies @waltworks @spartana and @trollwithamustache.

Out of the things I want to do -- 1) buy a boat, 2) get another degree, 3) buy a plane, 4) buy/build a cabin -- the last seems like the least financially irresponsible option because the others are guaranteed to lose money. I was on a non-profit board the last two years which kept me busy but really sucked. What to do, what to do?

I guess I could get a piece of land in a less expensive area and DIY build, challenge myself to do the whole thing for $100K or something. To @spartana 's point, I'd have to find a county with a more libertarian permits office.

Dicey

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2021, 07:18:15 PM »
The cost of building materials is out of sight right now, compounded by lack of availability. While I tend to agree with Walt in general, I especially do on this one.

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2021, 09:10:19 AM »
Thanks for the replies @waltworks @spartana and @trollwithamustache.

Out of the things I want to do -- 1) buy a boat, 2) get another degree, 3) buy a plane, 4) buy/build a cabin -- the last seems like the least financially irresponsible option because the others are guaranteed to lose money. I was on a non-profit board the last two years which kept me busy but really sucked. What to do, what to do?

I guess I could get a piece of land in a less expensive area and DIY build, challenge myself to do the whole thing for $100K or something. To @spartana 's point, I'd have to find a county with a more libertarian permits office.
You'd probably have to go to either the inland desert area (Blech) or more remote mountain areas in NorCal to find affordable land you can build on the way you want too. While there are lots of lots in the SoCal mountains, most are within tightly defined areas around the various mountain towns as most of the land area is federal or state forests and no building allowed. There's also the problems with methhead/labs/biker gangs/etc when buying land in some remote areas that have less restrictive building codes.

FWIW it sounds like you are bored and looking for somethi g to fill your time rather than invest. I'd work on that boredom before making an irreversible decision.

waltworks

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2021, 10:13:23 AM »
Yes, this reminds me of a lot of the ideas I had when bored and single.

-W

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2021, 08:35:11 PM »
Yes you guys and gals are totally right, logically raining on my parade. I'm bored and need something big and interesting to do for the next ten years. Knitting ain't gonna cut it!

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2021, 10:41:02 PM »
Yes you guys and gals are totally right, logically raining on my parade. I'm bored and need something big and interesting to do for the next ten years. Knitting ain't gonna cut it!
Do you plan to retire early? If you have that kind of moolah to develop your own compound then I'm guessing you can - or could if invested right. Lots of interesting things you can do (even during a pandemic)to occupy your mind and body and engage with the world once you are off the treadmill of a 9 to 5 job.

dang1

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2021, 11:37:56 PM »
check out underwater basket weaving

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2021, 09:52:10 AM »
Yes you guys and gals are totally right, logically raining on my parade. I'm bored and need something big and interesting to do for the next ten years. Knitting ain't gonna cut it!
Do you plan to retire early? If you have that kind of moolah to develop your own compound then I'm guessing you can - or could if invested right. Lots of interesting things you can do (even during a pandemic)to occupy your mind and body and engage with the world once you are off the treadmill of a 9 to 5 job.

Yes I plan to work through Oct. '31 for reasons that I won't get into here, but I could retire as early as '25 if I really wanted to. But even '25 is still 4+ years out, so I still need something big and interesting to do over those years. Maybe I'll keep looking for a vacation property that's much more modest but would still give me a something to continuously improve.

Wintergreen78

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2021, 12:59:09 PM »
Since you want to build something, and want to buy a boat, why not combine the two? Build a boat!

It will be much cheaper than your current plan. You should definitely start a thread to document the build.

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2021, 06:34:35 PM »
Since you want to build something, and want to buy a boat, why not combine the two? Build a boat!

It will be much cheaper than your current plan. You should definitely start a thread to document the build.


I would love to do that! But I don't think it would be cheaper in the long run. I'd have to find workshop space, invest in all the tools, raw materials, engine, etc. And hand-built boats don't retain much value.

waltworks

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2021, 07:27:33 PM »
Workshop space and wood is a lot cheaper than a cool million bucks worth of land/house. And if you decide it's not your thing, you don't renew the lease.

Hobbies aren't generally investments, that's what we're telling you. Keep that in mind and you'll be fine.

-W

Wintergreen78

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2021, 08:19:17 PM »
Since you want to build something, and want to buy a boat, why not combine the two? Build a boat!

It will be much cheaper than your current plan. You should definitely start a thread to document the build.


I would love to do that! But I don't think it would be cheaper in the long run. I'd have to find workshop space, invest in all the tools, raw materials, engine, etc. And hand-built boats don't retain much value.

I fixed that for you. Boats are basically taking cash and lighting it on fire, whether you build them or buy them. I still love sailing! My personal solution has been to sail on friends’ boats, but I completely understand the desire to have one of your own.

And any boat under 35 feet will be much cheaper than your mountain compound idea. If you work on it during nights and weekends, you’ll get at least ten year’s entertainment out of the build.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 08:20:49 PM by Wintergreen78 »

joe189man

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2021, 09:54:07 AM »
Yes, this reminds me of a lot of the ideas I had when bored and single.

-W

just get married and have kids, then you wont be bored any more or have any extra money either... JK, but really its true

sounds like you need to do some soul searching on what's important to you and what you want out of life, not just look for something to keep you busy for 4-10 years. what purpose would the compound have other that to keep you "busy"?


waltworks

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2021, 01:00:46 PM »
Yes, this reminds me of a lot of the ideas I had when bored and single.

-W

just get married and have kids, then you wont be bored any more or have any extra money either... JK, but really its true

sounds like you need to do some soul searching on what's important to you and what you want out of life, not just look for something to keep you busy for 4-10 years. what purpose would the compound have other that to keep you "busy"?

Meh, you can still have plenty of money with kids. They're cheap. But bored, you will not be. Frustrated, furious, exhausted, etc, sure, though!

OP just needs an SO and/or hobby, not an expensive piece of land in the middle of nowhere.

-W

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2021, 09:36:55 PM »
If the OP is in the SoCal area he can join the hordes if DIY property developers who buy up small older homes, raze them, and then build ginormous 2 storyhouses plus 2 story ADUs. I swear one old white haired built an entire 8 bedroom/8 bath plus  5000 sf house plus 2 story 2 bedroom/2 bath ADU on a property I once owned. Occasionally hired subcontractors but did much of the.labor himself. Took a year from the day the bulldozer showed up to tear down the house (and old guy doing it alone) to completion. Then you can sell it or rent out the many rooms as the owner is doing.

Or do something similair in an area of the SoCal mountains you like. Buy an old cabin, renovate it over time, and use it as a fun mountain home while renovating, and a possible full time retirement home once retired

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2021, 08:04:37 AM »
Yes @spartana I like the idea of buying a fixer cabin to renovate over time. I'll need to be patient and find a place that's close enough to LA and will at least break even over the long term. I wonder if I should look at a place in an inexpensive locale like AZ and buy a little plane to putter back and forth...that's mustachian right? :D

I guess there are two areas where I'm struggling with FIRE/Mustachianism -- hobbies and housing. My preferred hobbies are expensive. Flying, sailing, building big things. Of course I can do that stuff a lot cheaper if I leave LA, but then I'd also leave behind a big city salary.

For housing I'm currently paying $2,850/mo for a 1 br. apartment and plan to buy in mid-to-late '22. In my area a 2 br. condo is $850K and a 4 br. is $1.1M. A 4 br. with roommates is obviously way better financially, but I'd much prefer to live solo in a 2 br. *Sigh* at my "first world" problems.

Sibley

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2021, 03:16:24 PM »
I could be wrong, but haven't there be wild fires in those mountains?

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2021, 03:37:46 PM »
Yes @spartana I like the idea of buying a fixer cabin to renovate over time. I'll need to be patient and find a place that's close enough to LA and will at least break even over the long term. I wonder if I should look at a place in an inexpensive locale like AZ and buy a little plane to putter back and forth...that's mustachian right? :D

I guess there are two areas where I'm struggling with FIRE/Mustachianism -- hobbies and housing. My preferred hobbies are expensive. Flying, sailing, building big things. Of course I can do that stuff a lot cheaper if I leave LA, but then I'd also leave behind a big city salary.

For housing I'm currently paying $2,850/mo for a 1 br. apartment and plan to buy in mid-to-late '22. In my area a 2 br. condo is $850K and a 4 br. is $1.1M. A 4 br. with roommates is obviously way better financially, but I'd much prefer to live solo in a 2 br. *Sigh* at my "first world" problems.
Why not buy a fixer in the LA metro area now and rehab it yourself while living in it? I'm in "The OC" (coastal) so know how expensive it is but there are still lots of beaters to be had relatively cheap. And with your income you'll have no problems getting a big loan at very low interest rates. Plus people are paying a lot to rent rooms so there's income from that. Besides investing and finding other lower cost hobbies, which is what I'd do, it is probably the best bang for your buck as well as the most practical living situation. As mentioned above, cabins in wildfire prone areas (which are all places here in Calif) when you can't get wildfire insurance (pretty much doesn't exist here)  isn't always a good idea.

ETA: I personally think housing prices will drop so wouldn't buy here now but if you are going to be spending a lot for "future" dream house as well as renting in a HCOL area then the money doesn't likely matter as much to you.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 03:43:28 PM by spartana »

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2021, 03:07:22 AM »
@Sibley oh yes there are wildfires. In fact, rural homes advertise tanks with fire hose hookups to defend the house.

@spartana I like the idea of doing live-in flips where I hold each property for two years then sell to get the tax break. That would give me projects to work on and I could make a few extra bucks along the way. I agree with you that the current market is bubblicious, probably due to crazy low interest rates and inventory. And for other reasons, I wouldn't start until Fall of '22.

I don't think the subject property in Big Bear is overpriced because it's vacant land, which isn't in high demand up there. 80% of buyers want a vacation rental that's generating income. I modeled it out and, pessimistic scenario, in ten years it would reduce my NW by $650K compared to not buying it. But yeah I guess worst case scenario is that it's ravaged by a wildfire, rendering the land worthless, which would cost me over a million smackers over ten years.

ETA: But I, like, REAAALLYY want a mountain compound. :D
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 03:15:34 AM by FatFI2025 »

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2021, 10:47:19 AM »
I think even in a wildfire the land would likely retain its value but yeah, if you have a large or fancy cabin/compound you could lose a lot of money.

Also have you ever lived in Big Bear or similar? I'd recommend renting a cabin there for a few months in order to spend a lot  time there. A 6 month furnished rental off season (after ski season) can be pretty inexpensive. It ended up not being a good fit for me and I'd rather live in a larger, more active mountain/ski town (like ... don't look @waltworks - Park City or Tahoe) closer to a large city. YMMV but I'd rent awhile first in the area and then decide.

waltworks

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2021, 11:43:33 AM »
Yeah, I have spent time in Big Bear and I would not want to live there year round. There is really not much "town", the skiing is almost nonexistent at this point, etc.

PC has it's own set of problems with being square and lame but there is at least a core local crowd that is fun to hang out with.

-W

Malcat

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2021, 01:05:24 PM »
@Sibley oh yes there are wildfires. In fact, rural homes advertise tanks with fire hose hookups to defend the house.

@spartana I like the idea of doing live-in flips where I hold each property for two years then sell to get the tax break. That would give me projects to work on and I could make a few extra bucks along the way. I agree with you that the current market is bubblicious, probably due to crazy low interest rates and inventory. And for other reasons, I wouldn't start until Fall of '22.

I don't think the subject property in Big Bear is overpriced because it's vacant land, which isn't in high demand up there. 80% of buyers want a vacation rental that's generating income. I modeled it out and, pessimistic scenario, in ten years it would reduce my NW by $650K compared to not buying it. But yeah I guess worst case scenario is that it's ravaged by a wildfire, rendering the land worthless, which would cost me over a million smackers over ten years.

ETA: But I, like, REAAALLYY want a mountain compound. :D


K...but why?

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2021, 06:49:46 AM »
@waltworks @spartana @Malcat Appreciate the feedback. NGL I'm both nervous and excited about the prospect -- let me try to hit on your points.

I love being in the mountains, specifically surrounded by pine trees with some privacy. This lot is perfect in that respect and Big Bear is an easy 1.5-2 hr drive for me to escape LA on the weekends.

Second, I love doing big, bold projects. A 15 acre development is certainly big for me. It would keep me busy and, if I'm smart about it, maybe I could break even WRT opportunity cost. I mean if I invest $500K in the property over ten years and those funds would otherwise go into equities, I would try to develop the property to make an equivalent return.

Third, it would be fun to have family and friends up to make memories. To @waltworks point, I do worry about the town's value decreasing due to climate change, but there is still snow to ski and there are things that can be done to increase water to the lake.

Malcat

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2021, 07:17:07 AM »
Well, this sounds more like a passion project than anything else.

To me, it all depends on how much money you have and how much you want tied up in real estate. If you have millions outside of these two real estate ventures, then go ahead and chase your mountain compound fantasy.

If this is going to be a large portion of your NW, then I don't quite understand it.

waltworks

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2021, 08:40:23 AM »
Go visit some other ski towns. Or just mountain towns.

Big Bear is at the bottom of my list and I've lived in/spent time in almost every mountain town in the west.

-W

PMJL34

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2021, 12:04:16 PM »
Holy shit Walt! I just redfin'd Park City. The prices are beyond insane.

Do millionaires just buy winter cabins there to ski or do people live there year around?

How does a community like yours even exist/support itself?

The local mountains near me is Tahoe and it's very popular, but no where near as expensive as yours. What gives?

I swear everyone has so much money lol! My mind is blown.

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2021, 01:44:55 PM »
Holy shit Walt! I just redfin'd Park City. The prices are beyond insane.

Do millionaires just buy winter cabins there to ski or do people live there year around?

How does a community like yours even exist/support itself?

The local mountains near me is Tahoe and it's very popular, but no where near as expensive as yours. What gives?

I swear everyone has so much money lol! My mind is blown.
I don't know about @waltworks bit if you bought years ago most ski towns outside of places like Aspen were pretty inexpensive. Also during a big recession vacation/second homes are usually the first to go cheaply so often lots of reduced prices and foreclosures.

waltworks

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2021, 02:03:48 PM »
Holy shit Walt! I just redfin'd Park City. The prices are beyond insane.

Do millionaires just buy winter cabins there to ski or do people live there year around?

How does a community like yours even exist/support itself?

The local mountains near me is Tahoe and it's very popular, but no where near as expensive as yours. What gives?

I swear everyone has so much money lol! My mind is blown.

It depends on the neighborhood. A lot of the slopeside condo/ski in ski out mansion stuff is second homes for billionaires or celebrities. Those places are only occupied maybe 1 month a year, and they're concentrated around Deer Valley.

Outside of that, most normal houses are $1.5-$3million bucks. But believe it or not there are:
-A lot of people who can afford that, especially post-Covid.
-A lot of people (ie us) who bought many years ago for a fraction of that.

Things really went nuts (ie, up 50% or so!) this year. People realized they could work from anywhere, they saw that the schools here are decent and holding classes in person, and the outdoor recreation scene in general went nuts, which is sort of our big thing.

If you can get over living in Utah, that is.

For what it's worth, if I wanted to build a "compound" and live surrounded by trees, I'd look at the upper Midwest (and in fact I might buy a place there this year). CA and the whole intermountain west stand a good chance of being pretty undesirable in 10-20 years due to drought/fire/climate change, IMO.

-W

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2021, 02:50:17 PM »
Go visit some other ski towns. Or just mountain towns.

Big Bear is at the bottom of my list and I've lived in/spent time in almost every mountain town in the west.

-W
yeah Big Bear isn't a ski mecca for sure and I wouldn't choose it as a full time place if I could live elsewhere (had older parents, family and BF in SoCal area and wanted to be close by once I FIREd).  But it's a good very close by 4 season recreation area with the lake and surrounded by Nat. Forest and miles of hiking and biking trails so appealing even with crappy skiing. Also as the OP pointed out land is pretty inexpensive there and it's you are allowed to build a 250 sf cabin or a 25,000 sf Macmansion cabin - and everything in between. That's often restricted in other mountain towns.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2021, 03:45:38 PM »



ETA: But I, like, REAAALLYY want a mountain compound. :D



As I read the thread I agreed with other posters who responded that if you want a project to occupy your time there are other options.

But then I came to your  post here.

I live on rural acreage in my dream home located  in the mountains about ~35 miles from the entrance to Yosemite National Park.

I call it my "mini Yosemite."

You could call it a compound.

Elevation is ~2700 feet where there's not much snow and winters are mild.

At elevation > 4000 feet there is much more snow and it's much colder.

If you really want to have a mountain compound buy one,  have one built to your specifications, or DIY.

If it turns out you don't like it you can sell it.

I don't think that will happen because you "REAAALLYY want a mountain compound."

Living in the mountains on rural acreage is a lifestyle  that offers maximum freedom because your neighbors are far away.

The air is clear and the views spectacular.

The only serious drawback to living in a mountain compound is the risk of wildfire.

Though during a wildfire my house caught fire (fascia) it was easily  saved because   the fire department's engine was yards away.

To reduce the risk of destruction from a wildfire have a  roof  made of metal and exterior walls covered with *fire-resistant siding made of fiber cement.

You also have the option of a metal house or one made from concrete/brick/stone.

Be sure all outbuildings are made of metal.

And CLEAR, CLEAR, CLEAR all flammable vegetation and  material away from the buildings.

May you enjoy your mountain compound.


*Protecting Your Home From Wildfires | James Hardie Proswww.jameshardiepros.com › blog › protecting-your-ho...
Oct 31, 2018 — FEMA stresses that fire-resistant siding is critical to avoiding ... Amongst the many benefits, James Hardie® fiber cement siding and trim are ...

« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 03:50:57 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

PMJL34

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2021, 03:47:10 PM »
Yeah those prices in Park City aren't for millionaires, they are for billionaires. The entry price for a vacation home there is more expensive than Palo Alto primary homes. Nuts!

I definitely hear you on the positives and agree that there's huge appeal. It sure looks beautiful, but hot damn 5million is beyond steep. For that price, you guys must have slopes made of snow that never melts and is warm to touch!

Climate change is certainly affecting Tahoe, but for now, it's beautiful and an awesome place year around. I guess I might as well enjoy it while I can.

I enjoyed Big Bear a few times when I was in LA, but agree it doesn't compare to the rest of the places being discussed. 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 03:49:07 PM by PMJL34 »

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2021, 04:01:20 PM »



I love being in the mountains, specifically surrounded by pine trees with some privacy.

The redolence of the pines on my property is wonderful.

And so is the swish of the wind as it blows through the spaces between their needles.

I've  a lifetime supply of oak firewood to boot.

And privacy, privacy, privacy too.

Typically, I hear  NO man-made sounds; that's how remarkably peaceful it is up in the mountains.

For me it's paradise.


« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2021, 07:27:16 PM »
Like @spartana I'm in the area to be close by family. LA is not my first choice city and Big Bear is not my first choice ski town, but it's the only ski town I could realistically visit every weekend. There are two other mountain communities I'm interested in, but neither has any skiing at all.

@John Galt incarnate! I'm thoroughly jealous. I love Yosemite and visit it often...was just there over Thanksgiving. Thanks for stepping in and sharing your experience.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm still on the fence. On one hand I know building a mountain getaway is not the financially optimal thing to do. On the other hand, I keep coming back to the potential that I'll regret passing up this piece of land in five or ten years.

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2021, 03:17:38 PM »
Yeah those prices in Park City aren't for millionaires, they are for billionaires. The entry price for a vacation home there is more expensive than Palo Alto primary homes. Nuts!

I definitely hear you on the positives and agree that there's huge appeal. It sure looks beautiful, but hot damn 5million is beyond steep. For that price, you guys must have slopes made of snow that never melts and is warm to touch!

Climate change is certainly affecting Tahoe, but for now, it's beautiful and an awesome place year around. I guess I might as well enjoy it while I can.

I enjoyed Big Bear a few times when I was in LA, but agree it doesn't compare to the rest of the places being discussed.
Well us "po' folk" look at one bedroom condos in the $300k - $400k range not the fancy cabins. But yeah Park City is high for sure. I've been looking at ski towns all over the west the last few years and there are lots of nice affordable places but most are smaller communities in more out of the way places.

ETA:  For myself I'd only rent a studio or one bedroom instead of buy (just saw one for $1100 in PC - much cheaper than LA/OC rentals) but I'm not sure that would satisfy the OPs desires for a project and wouldn't be the same as living in a remote isolated place.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 03:57:40 PM by spartana »

Fuzz

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2021, 11:32:36 AM »
I think Walt's comment about single guys having this thought is hilarious. I would have had the same thoughts as a single guy.

Anyway, if you're a pilot, check out the factory assist build of the sling TSI in Torrance. Youtube mojogrip. Great way to have a 250K hobby. You can be at big bear in 30 minutes!

But the general idea of sinking that much money/net worth into a recreation property you'll use 1/12 of the year is pretty crazy.

If you want to 1031 the money, can you just get a few yurts up there and call it good? Also, I wouldn't believe anything a realtor tells you about whether the HOA or county or anyone will let you build an ADU first, or avoid minimum lot sizes, or speed of permitting.

GuitarStv

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2021, 11:39:51 AM »
Out of the things I want to do -- 1) buy a boat, 2) get another degree, 3) buy a plane, 4) buy/build a cabin -- the last seems like the least financially irresponsible option because the others are guaranteed to lose money.

Is it just me, or is that list really, really, really weird?

You list 4 things that you want to do . . .
1) buy a boat
2) get another degree
3) buy a plane
4) buy/build a cabin

but 1, 2, and half of 4 aren't actually examples of doing anything.  Buying shit is not doing something.

1) Go boating more often
2) Become more educated
3) Fly a plane (often?)
4) Build/Live in a cabin

Those would be examples of doing things . . . and all of them can be cheaper than your original list.

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2021, 09:51:47 PM »
I think Walt's comment about single guys having this thought is hilarious. I would have had the same thoughts as a single guy.

Anyway, if you're a pilot, check out the factory assist build of the sling TSI in Torrance. Youtube mojogrip. Great way to have a 250K hobby. You can be at big bear in 30 minutes!

But the general idea of sinking that much money/net worth into a recreation property you'll use 1/12 of the year is pretty crazy.

If you want to 1031 the money, can you just get a few yurts up there and call it good? Also, I wouldn't believe anything a realtor tells you about whether the HOA or county or anyone will let you build an ADU first, or avoid minimum lot sizes, or speed of permitting.
Don't think yurts or tiny homes (other than studio cabins) are allowed there but many small cabin/motel combos. Since Big Bear is so popular (and seriously you really can ski in the morning in freezing weather or hike along the numerous trails (including the PCT which goes by town)  and then surf on a warm sunny beach less then 90 minutes later) airbnb and vacation rentals are extremely popular too. Even more so during the pandemic and skiing/boarding is allowed. The crappy old Motel 6 goes for over $300/night during holidays and weekends. OP can build a compound, use it often and do an AirBNB occasionally for extra income.

waltworks

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2021, 10:27:13 PM »
I have stayed in that Motel 6 for a few NORBA nationals and it is indeed craptacular and expensive!

-W

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2021, 02:13:51 PM »
I have stayed in that Motel 6 for a few NORBA nationals and it is indeed craptacular and expensive!

-W
lol yeah it is one of crappiest Motel 6s I've ever been too and I've been to a lot!. Checked the price for this non-holiday-nothing-going-on-there Sat rate and it was (drum roll...) $382.  Airbnbs are ridiculous up there now too. 

SanDiegoFIhopeful

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2021, 03:24:41 PM »
I have had similar daydreams*, but with climate-related concerns about Big Bear/Arrowhead, my dreams take place further north in the June Lake area, close to Mammoth but much smaller and cheaper, and close to Yosemite. In 10 years my car will just drive me there anyway, so why not go a bit further to access better snow/lakes/hikes? :)

In my plan, I would be buying a fixer on a large-ish lot that was just nice enough to rent out year round or in 6 month stints (one stretch for fishing/lakes season and one for ski season), then I would eventually update the house and build an ADU. I think it would be burning quite a bit less cash than starting with an empty lot, but when I run the numbers it's still not helpful to my FIRE plan unless you factor in substantial appreciation, which I would not want to plan for (although I think a case could be made for that area to appreciate a lot even if it will never catch up to Mammoth).

*then my son was born. Now that DW and I are both working from home while taking shifts watching him, my daydreams are much smaller LOL.

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2021, 04:09:39 PM »
I have had similar daydreams*, but with climate-related concerns about Big Bear/Arrowhead, my dreams take place further north in the June Lake area, close to Mammoth but much smaller and cheaper, and close to Yosemite. In 10 years my car will just drive me there anyway, so why not go a bit further to access better snow/lakes/hikes? :)

In my plan, I would be buying a fixer on a large-ish lot that was just nice enough to rent out year round or in 6 month stints (one stretch for fishing/lakes season and one for ski season), then I would eventually update the house and build an ADU. I think it would be burning quite a bit less cash than starting with an empty lot, but when I run the numbers it's still not helpful to my FIRE plan unless you factor in substantial appreciation, which I would not want to plan for (although I think a case could be made for that area to appreciate a lot even if it will never catch up to Mammoth).

*then my son was born. Now that DW and I are both working from home while taking shifts watching him, my daydreams are much smaller LOL.
Well you know that volcano Mammoth and June are sitting on is gonna blow soon ;-). OK maybe not but lots of shaking going on.

My sister lived in Mammoth for years as a ski bum and it is a good ski/mountain town as is June - which I also like better - but both are pretty isolated and expensive. Maybe the OP prefers that but it is a long drive from LA. Of course it's crowded because so many people from LA metro area go there every weekend but mid-week is really nice. Lots of people who live full time in Big bear go skiing at Mammoth and June as the annual pass includes all 3 places, plus some others, and skiing is better. I think Mammoth and June are both VERY restrictive about what can be built there though so building a place and an ADU might not be doable. Worth checking though.

I just checked and looks like the ADU regs for June are the same as most places in Calif https://www.housable.com/place/june-lake-ca-091369921
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 04:18:14 PM by spartana »

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2021, 09:22:35 PM »
I think Walt's comment about single guys having this thought is hilarious. I would have had the same thoughts as a single guy.

Anyway, if you're a pilot, check out the factory assist build of the sling TSI in Torrance. Youtube mojogrip. Great way to have a 250K hobby. You can be at big bear in 30 minutes!

But the general idea of sinking that much money/net worth into a recreation property you'll use 1/12 of the year is pretty crazy.

If you want to 1031 the money, can you just get a few yurts up there and call it good? Also, I wouldn't believe anything a realtor tells you about whether the HOA or county or anyone will let you build an ADU first, or avoid minimum lot sizes, or speed of permitting.

I get to build my $1M compound and a $250K plane -- this is a version of mustachianism that I'm really liking haha!

spartana

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2021, 12:01:37 PM »
I think Walt's comment about single guys having this thought is hilarious. I would have had the same thoughts as a single guy.

Anyway, if you're a pilot, check out the factory assist build of the sling TSI in Torrance. Youtube mojogrip. Great way to have a 250K hobby. You can be at big bear in 30 minutes!

But the general idea of sinking that much money/net worth into a recreation property you'll use 1/12 of the year is pretty crazy.

If you want to 1031 the money, can you just get a few yurts up there and call it good? Also, I wouldn't believe anything a realtor tells you about whether the HOA or county or anyone will let you build an ADU first, or avoid minimum lot sizes, or speed of permitting.

I get to build my $1M compound and a $250K plane -- this is a version of mustachianism that I'm really liking haha!
Or.... you could go full mustashian and ride your bicycle up there and back every weekend and just rent a room. That 8,000 plus elevation gain plus 100 miles will likely fix the boredom and big project lust - assuming you don't die that is ;-)!

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2021, 12:23:25 PM »
I think Walt's comment about single guys having this thought is hilarious. I would have had the same thoughts as a single guy.

Anyway, if you're a pilot, check out the factory assist build of the sling TSI in Torrance. Youtube mojogrip. Great way to have a 250K hobby. You can be at big bear in 30 minutes!

But the general idea of sinking that much money/net worth into a recreation property you'll use 1/12 of the year is pretty crazy.

If you want to 1031 the money, can you just get a few yurts up there and call it good? Also, I wouldn't believe anything a realtor tells you about whether the HOA or county or anyone will let you build an ADU first, or avoid minimum lot sizes, or speed of permitting.

I get to build my $1M compound and a $250K plane -- this is a version of mustachianism that I'm really liking haha!
Or.... you could go full mustashian and ride your bicycle up there and back every weekend and just rent a room. That 8,000 plus elevation gain plus 100 miles will likely fix the boredom and big project lust - assuming you don't die that is ;-)!

Ha, yes death would do the trick!

FatFI2025

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2021, 12:24:45 PM »
Based in part on y'alls feedback, I'm leaning away from this project, like 80% I'm not going to do it.

I hope I don't look back a few years from now, pockets full of dough, and say to myself "wish I hadn't let that one pass me by."

Dicey

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Re: "Compound" Build in SoCal Mountains
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2021, 12:13:08 AM »
Based in part on y'alls feedback, I'm leaning away from this project, like 80% I'm not going to do it.

I hope I don't look back a few years from now, pockets full of dough, and say to myself "wish I hadn't let that one pass me by."
Meh. With that much dough in your pockets, you'll find something you like better.