Can anyone give me a sense of what YNAB has over something like Mint? Mint tracks spending and allows you to make budgets, goals etc. What does YNAB offer beyond that? (I'm genuinely curious as Mint has been helpful for us, so I'm always interested in finding things that are more helpful)
Actually depends on how you are already doing with your finances and budgeting. If you already are on top of your finances then Mint offers IMO a better tool. If you find you are learning how to change your spenders mindset, need to improve your savings, feel you need help, in debt, then try YNAB.
It is very interesting to note MMM has advocated and recommended Mint before. His positive review is located here:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/12/12/watching-your-stash-with-mint/
Enjoy and happy savings to you! Cheers!
I would disagree with this.
YNAB is very much for someone who doesn't need to pay off debt and adjust their spending.
I have used YNAB for several years as a way to plan for rainy day expenses and save money. It allows you to not double-count the jobs of your dollars like many people do in their head. Mint is too backward-looking and tells you what you spent, whereas YNAB is very forward looking and helps you plan the future.
MMM recommends Mint - it's free and would work for most.
The owner of YNAB actually recommends Betterment instead of Vanguard for investing, mainly because most investors are too lazy to know what they are doing.
Just because the owner of something recommends a program, does not always mean its the best fit for everyone.
All great points Joel and Will thanks for sharing.
The people I personally know who use Mint are already engaged with their daily finances. These are not lazy people. They routinely dedicate time to learn more about finances and the markets. Many already practice the MMM values and most importantly, they proactively plan for retirement. Wouldn't you agree those people are similar to many of us here on MMM? Aren't we all here because we are open to learning new ways to become more proactive with our finances?
Jesse’s YNAB has a great paradigm shift one that is not focused on by Mint and that is by its very design. For Mint I cannot speak officially for Aaron, however as one of the original members of Mint's beta testing team I am fully aware how the tool has successfully helped many people change their budgeting habits. Now of course the same holds true for YNAB and only time will prove what tool consumers prefer. But that is the key with most peoples finances, regardless of what financial software tools they use, most people just need to start doing something so they can improve.
I am also aware that Jesse recommends Betterment. I researched the services long before it was reviewed at YNAB and found it may provide value for some investors. However it may not be suitable for investors who hands on already actively manage their retirement accounts. As I mentioned earlier the investors I know already dedicate time to research, learning, annually re-balance and consolidating their accounts. They are not investing beginners and are very much goals oriented, mindful of management fees and how it holistically affects performances. I feel Betterment may better suit investing novices with little to no previous financial experience and who have no interest in actively gaining such knowledge. It is not for the person who wishes to manage their own money/retirement accounts and learn how to do so. Also it is unfortunate but Betterment does not sync with YNAB. And speaking as someone who does proactively manage their own money, I want that investment data combined into the YNAB program which will not happen. Until that day, I am content using Mint to gain a quick snapshot of my entire financial picture and separately research, plan and execute orders in the respective retirements accounts. I feel budgeting tools that do not combine investment data even if delayed, fail to create an complete picture.
One more distinction, just because Mint users may not be able to track every dollar daily, does not mean their dollars are not working for them. Many investors automate their paycheck and savings into external retirement accounts that are set up to purchase mutual funds like VTSAX or MDLOX periodically. Sure all of this takes work, careful planning and being actually engaged with your finances. But isn’t that what we are all trying to do, gain a deeper understanding of our finances so we can make better choices that positively impact our retirement? I for one want to make the higher level decisions involving my investments, instead of leaving it in the hands of a money manager. After all, I am sure we can all agree, no one cares more about your money than you do. So then, why not learn the basics on how money works and how investing will help you reach your retirement sooner than later? Isn't that precisely what MMM advocates?
Joel you are correct just because MMM recommends something does not mean everyone should consider doing it. However isn't it true, the converse holds true for Jesses’ endorsement of Betterment? Perhaps as tuyop suggests users can use both Mint and YNAB services together and find which is suits their needs. And in the end isn’t that all that matters? Don’t most people just need to find a budgeting tool that begins to help them?
All budgeting tools have shortcomings. Yes Mint sometimes has glitches. Yes you may need to request through the company forum and feedback to add a new company. So what? This is a free tool (like many online retirement calculators) and for the vast majority of people who do use large financial institutions for their banking, credit card, mortgage, loans, and retirement accounts, Mint already has those in the system and combines those accounts. Mint is not perfect. But the fact remains nothing out there free or paid, is without need for improvements. As for Mint being “backward looking”, I concur it does provide a snapshot of your progress like a report card instead of serving as an active heart rate monitor. The thing is not everyone needs to see each financial heartbeat, when their larger financial health is a coma-like status due to a mix of emotions including fear, apathy, illiteracy and denial. It is not surprising that some find YNAB simply too much work and that can and does turn potential users away. I say it is far better for most people to make some improvements (small victories) by stepping in the right direction (actually doing something), acknowledging a need to get financial help and slowly making improvements, than doing nothing at all.
Ultimately, as with any tool it all depends how you choose to use it and the limitations it inherently was created with. If you are proactive I feel a person would already be aware if they are on-track and need to make adjustments. No one is saying to set a budget and then forget it.
Your mileage may vary but happy savings. Good luck.