YMOYL, will it work for a nearly retired debt-struck?

[DanishMM]

Hi mmm-community.

I am trying to find a book for an older friend of mine who will retire in a few years. He has a lot of debt due to his unwise spending and even though he said he has realized he needs to change, I am not at all convinced that he has truly converted. His salary is high enough that a lifestyle change the last years before retirement will really help. I am thinking of buying him Your money or your life based on the recommendations on this site, but will that book work for someone in that end of the spectrum or is mostly for new-starters? He is highly intelligent so he mostly need the philosophical punch in the face rather than the "look if you have 4 dollars you can't spend 5".

Hope you have some suggestions on what to get him....

Regards
D

[DocCyane]

I'm not sure any book would change someone who is well-set in their habits and not experiencing any immediate pain. If he's making big money now and has been his whole life, the thought of not having money to burn is likely not within his comprehension.

I say this because I know just such a person and concluded long ago she was beyond any advice.

Even if you feel he would be open to cutting back, handing someone a book rarely does the deed. Perhaps you could express your concerns and share some Mustachian methods to determine if there's any real interest.

But don't get too invested in saving others from themselves. It's often futile.

[DanishMM]

Thank you for your reply!
I realize now that I didnt explain it properly before but the thing is he is experiencing problems now. The bank has told him that he can't stay in his house after retirement and he has to find some cheap rental. He wont be able to travelafter retirement. He has realized he needs to change some things and has already but I thinks  he feels deprived. I want to explain to him that this could be a blessing in disguise - making him focus on the things that truly matters. I know its in there (he used to be a real hippie-flower-child-heal-the-world-type) but his line of business made him associate with overspenders and true consumerist which unfortunately rubbed off.  I know he has a responsibility too. I am not denying that. ..I guess I want to "save him".

I do have a feeling you're right though. Some book probably wont change a lifetime of bad habits.  SO frustrating.....

[DocCyane]

Well, if he's an old hippie, Boomer sort, you can always appeal to that part of him. Talk about simplifying, down-sizing, being less destructive to the earth. Remind him there was a time where he didn't need things and he was quite happy. Talk about how material possessions are often burdens and he deserves to be free of those burdens.

Sometimes it's how you phrase things. Help him with his inner dialogue to make the life he must now live more appealing, even romantic, than how he presently sees it.

Try to get him to tell you stories about his young adulthood. Perhaps he just needs a little push to get him back to his roots.

[happy]

Why not just get him to read the blog? It has everything he needs.

[DanishMM]

Thanks for the replies!
Yeah I have mentioned mmm but he hasn't gotten around to it, but I have to say that I have not been pushing it too hard because I am not sure its the right form. I mean, there is a lot of face-punching and making fun of complaynipants which I love and wouldn't change at all, but I think mmm might work best on people who are already in a sort-of-change-of-mind about consumerism. Not people who are in a deep deep hole with few years in the work force and a lifetime of bad descisions behind them. Thats why I was looking for a book that would be inspirational and not face-punching..... I could be wrong though. Maybe I should link him the least face-punching ones and the most hop-on-board-inspirational ones.

I will definitely take the advice on asking about his past and try to get him in the hippie-not-spending-mode. Thanks!

If none of the above works I will send him the extremely face-punching ones and see what happens!

[happy]

Personally as a "boomer hippy type " I found YMOYL quite tedious to read. The Millionaire Next door was better.

The problem is that he hasn't much time before he stops working, so I think face punches are needed!

I would try posts like  "your debt is an emergency" and "the shockingly simple math behind early retirement".

If he feels its too late, remind him that even  in his late 50s or 60s he still has 30 or 40 years to go before he gets to 90.... still plenty of time  to get out of debt and to get an investment compounding. I tell myself this all the time, since my "ER" is likely to be age 60.

[DanishMM]

Thanks for the advice - I think you're right. Time is running out. He is on a businesstrip now, I talked to him on the phone and he seems quite stressed out. I think I will link him the two articles you mentioned when he gets back. I just re-read them and they are face-punching but still optimistic even for a person in debt...

Writing about this in this forum makes me realize how involved I am.I just want to scream "Listen man!! Your hair is on FIRE!!"....

So I will make this last attempt and link those two. If it doesn't work I will stop because it is really starting to affect me and our relationship, because I get so annoyed.

Thanks again.

[Zelda01]

DanishMM: I am interested in what happens with your friend, and if he makes any progress. 

I know someone in a similar-but-not-sinking boat, where she is nearing retirement, and would be in better shape if she would look at her spending patterns.  10 years ago I was reading David Bach books, and she was interested enough to get one, and "pay herself first" 10% into retirement funds.  So that was good. 

However, the next step of tracking spending patterns is hard to get a person to do.  I referred her to YMOYL, but she didn't want to read it.  People get really worried that you are telling them to budget, and that is where the "feeling deprived" comes in.

I know a lot of people who are frugal, and none of them has a budget.  Most try to cut expenses in categories they don't care about, so that they can spend on things they do care about.  People go about it for different reasons, and in different ways. 

In my case, it is all about making my life simpler and creating simple processes.  For example, I recently changed the process of how I buy a certain category of items, making it a planned process of buying the items every 6 months online in a few big purchases.  I ended up buying the same items I haphazardly bought in stores (at full price), but saved a lot of time, and surprisingly saved 30% $$.

I like what DocCyane said about "Talk about simplifying, down-sizing, being less destructive to the earth."  It would help if you can find something that resonates with your friend - that is the best way to go about it. 

Also you said that your friend was trying to change things.  What things has he changed so far?
 

[Dee18]

Why is he retiring if he doesn't have the money?

[DanishMM]

Zelda01: I will let you know what happens. I will probably see him next week. I think we have a similar point of view. For me it is all about simplicity too. We just sold our car and I am LOVING not having to worry about insurance, if it breaks and all those things.
The "problem" with my friend is that we are so close that I need a really great approach because he has no problem saying "not interested! dont want to hear it" to me. So he is not going to hear me out, out of politeness.
He really gets into thing and projects. He got into yoga and then did that a 110 % including diet-cange and so on. So he has the potential to really commit to a lifestylechange.
In terms of what he has changed, he cut cable and cancelled his newspaper. I then thought this is great! But then he still spends 100s of dollars on clothes and gadgets.
.

To answer Dee18: he has a debt and is paying it off but not aggressively at all. He has a very small retirement-fund. His job usually dont have people after the age of 70 so he has 4-5 yrs left. He LOVES his job and would do it till 80 and he defintely has the brains to generate an income after retirement in something he would enjoy, but propably not with a great income. So when he retires he will get by - but paying minimum on his debt and probably living very very cheap. That is why I feel the need to wake him now!! He would be able to pay of his debt and also a change of mind regarding materialism would really make his retirement so much more enjoyable instead of constantly feeling deprieved.

[Enphuego]

I sent YMOYL to my sister, but her husband read it and now he's turned a complete 180.  I'd say that YMOYL does an excellent job of making a person understand why you should spend less and how to go about maximizing your happiness while minimizing your expenses.  Every other personal finance books just tells you that you should be budgeting or you should save but they don't tell you why you are doing it or how to make those decisions.

[DanishMM]

Thanks for the reply. I decided on a strategy a few days ago.  Writing in this forum made me realize a lot of things and really made me decide to give it ONE serious attempt to change  him by recommending something to read since all my personal advice hasn't worked. I thought of how I was introduced to mmm and it was via nomoreharvarddebt. He has similar debts and similar income to my friend so its perfect. Plus its very goal oriented and practical - like my friend. I have just gotten of the phone with him. I told him " you know your debt? This guy had the same and paid it off in 7 months want a link?" For the first time since trying to talk finance with him he actually said "cool yeah, I could use that"....I am not saying he is a convert but I think thats the best I will get....
I am hoping that he like me will get sucked into the awesomeness of not spending...I will give him a few weeks before bugging him if he read it and keep you posted...