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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Reader Recommendations => Topic started by: Hadilly on January 09, 2016, 05:41:00 PM

Title: The Big Short movie
Post by: Hadilly on January 09, 2016, 05:41:00 PM
Did a search but didn't see another thread about this movie.

Based on the book by Michael Lewis, The Big Short follows a small group of folks who profited from the 2008 meltdown. It is funny, well acted, and terrifying. The depth of greed, complicity, and idiocy exhibited is pretty amazing. It was well worth my $8 at a matinee this morning. I particularly liked the scenes where the investors do their due diligence and conclude that, yes, a crash is coming. The explanation of how CDOs work is great.

If you like financial disaster porn, then this is the movie for you! I give it my mustachian thumbs up.

Anyone else see it? Like it? Hate it?

I will say, the previews were really weird, making me wonder about what kind of demographic group they thought they would be reaching (maybe a very religious viewer into magic, wrestling, and Roman history).

Edited to fix grammar
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: JimLahey on January 09, 2016, 11:18:01 PM
Watched it earlier this evening. Glad they took the time to explain things in layman's terms. Helped me understand exactly what occurred. It's kind of a less filthy version of The Wolf of Wall Street. I liked  Bradd Pitt's role and how he had to explain the effects of them making bank off the crash.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Adventine on January 10, 2016, 06:37:42 AM
Watched it just yesterday. Really good movie. I didn't realize Steve Carell could be great in a dramatic role.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Hadilly on January 10, 2016, 07:12:31 AM
Yes! I loved Steve Carell's character, but didn't recognize him as the actor. It is a pretty excellent cast.

Watching that movie, in conjunction with the current "Everybody seems wealthy" thread,  makes me thinks a lot about the dangerously alluring side of consumerism and the willingness of large groups of people to buy into a compelling narrative, in this case, "housing is rock solid." I feel worried for all the people who can make their debt payments but  saving nothing.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: MidWestLove on January 10, 2016, 12:33:01 PM
watched it and enjoyed it (and I work in financial services) - not a typical consumer CGI junk with paper think "characters" acting some Disney quality plot predictable far in advance. at time a bit preachy but on the right side. finance items explained correctly (swaps and other derivatives).  if you have not seen it yet, give it a chance - worth it.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: OutlierinMA on January 11, 2016, 07:18:53 AM
I just saw this yesterday with my sister and we both really enjoyed it. It was very informative with great layman explanations for what exactly happened, but very entertaining at the same time. Well done! I also loved the way they kept showing the disastrous end result of all of this financial fraud on ordinary people - the renter whose landlord was not paying the mortgage, for example. I would highly recommend this movie to anyone.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 11, 2016, 07:38:45 AM
Another fan.  I especially enjoyed the scene where they visit the Standard and Poors rating agency.  "We have to give them triple A or they'll just go down the street to Moodys". 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: elaine amj on January 11, 2016, 09:12:44 AM
I had not even considered watching this film and now I'm intrigued.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: lemanfan on January 11, 2016, 12:06:53 PM
Another insight into the 2008 meltdown is the book "Collosal failure of common sense" written by an insider at Lehman Brothers.  Explains some parts. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Reynold on January 12, 2016, 09:45:48 AM
(1) Some people clearly anticipated this crash YEARS in advance. Were they just lucky or were the signs that obvious? What ELSE are we missing?

I got a clue to the oncoming crash when I visited Las Vegas for my FIL's 80th birthday party.  There were miles of streets with thousands of brand new McMansions all around us, and I said "There is no way there are enough people moving here with high enough incomes for all these."  I suspect there were a few other people who saw something similar as the crash was approaching, but not many, I think, who had access to enough information to conclude that there would be a nation-wide crash, vs. just in a few "overbuilt" markets.   That hadn't really happened before, nor had defaults on mortgages ever exceeded 5% or so, which kept the CDOs high rated.  Finally, there wasn't really a way to bet on a crash without constructing entirely new financial vehicles to do so, like John Paulson did.  The only option most of us would have is to sell our house and move to a rental for a few years, hoping to buy it back after a crash, which is a lot of work. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Drifterrider on January 12, 2016, 11:56:20 AM
I'll have to wait until it hits my library.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Koogie on January 12, 2016, 12:03:48 PM
I saw it "on the internet" as they say.. nudge, nudge

Great movie.   Good acting and well plotted.     Better even than Margin Call, which sorta covers the same events.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: El Marinero on January 12, 2016, 02:37:40 PM
I thought it was just about as good as you could make a movie about finance. 

I especially liked the exposition about the securities in question that was given by Margot Robbie with the aid of champagne and a bubble bath. 

Seriously, I'd recommend it to just about anyone.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Drifterrider on January 13, 2016, 11:31:48 AM
I saw it "on the internet" as they say.. nudge, nudge

Great movie.   Good acting and well plotted.     Better even than Margin Call, which sorta covers the same events.

I don't know how to "see it on the internet" :)

I have no children thus no savvy teenagers to make things work.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: pachnik on January 13, 2016, 11:35:54 AM
A good friend of mine who is a retired stockbroker went to see it and really enjoyed it.  My husband and I are going to see it this weekend.  I can't believe I didn't see any hype about this movie considering it has Brad Pitt, Steve Carell etc in it. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Optimiser on January 14, 2016, 01:03:29 PM
My wife and I really enjoyed it. They do a great job of making it easy to understand, funny and dramatic.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Trudie on February 07, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
Loved it.  A complicated, bummer of a topic was handled expertly.

The whole thing made me grateful for my uncomplicated, low-profile, nose-to-the-grindstone Mustachian existence.  It is scary how much money people sink into investments they don't understand.  But it also confirmed for me why investing in low-cost and index funds is a good strategy.

I loved Brad Pitt's character and the scene where he exalts his homegrown vegetables and having your own seed bank.  I thought, "That's the person I want to be someday.  Rich enough, and growing my own food."
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Adventine on February 07, 2016, 07:28:02 PM
^Agreed! Brad Pitt's character was the closet Mustachian. He retired from Wall Street as soon as he made "enough," and settled into a much less stressful life tending a farm with his family.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: doggyfizzle on February 11, 2016, 01:25:17 PM
(2) The executives got away with it. Their is little incentive for them to reign in their greed in the future because they know they'll get to keep all their bonuses and not suffer any consequences.

The same can be said about all the homeowners who took out mortgages they either had no intention of paying back or only had the expectation to hold the mortgage for a short period of time because their house was "for sure going up in price."  The greed worked both ways: banks were overly eager to lend money, and consumers were overly eager to take on debt because they "perceived" easy returns.  It is unfortunate that the narrative about lack of punishment doesn't incorporate the various government and bank programs rolled out to "help" underwater homeowners totaled billions of dollars; money that was not made available to responsible consumers or the lack of mortgage recourse for banks that were saddled with assets (homes) with plummeting values (2007-2010) and homeowners who we able to walk away scot free.

Tens of thousands of bank employees (and high-level managers) lost their jobs through the financial crisis, and banks and former bank managers (Angelo Mozillio et al) have paid out hundreds of billions of dollars in fines and settlements to various government entities.  Proving criminal intent by upper management (I have heard from various attorney friends so take my anecdote with a grain of salt) would not be favorable from an odds of conviction standpoint (the government would actually have more to lose trying a case against a major bank executive and losing), so fines for wrongdoing with some homeowner reprieve program thrown in for good measure seemed to be there preferred method of punishment.  There is also the argument that the lending behavior at the banks was highly unethical, but not necessarily illegal.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: MandalayVA on February 11, 2016, 01:28:04 PM
The book was awesome--let's face it, Michael Lewis doesn't write bad books--so I imagine the movie is decent.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Lyssa on February 15, 2016, 09:39:44 AM
Saw it last week and think it's great. The Big Short and Margin Call provide the best explanation of the financial crisis to lay people that I have seen or read. Out of the two, The Big Short is both more informative and more entertaining.

It also struck me as very mustachian. Not only because of Brad Pitt's character but the whole 'outsiders gaming the system' narrative. The protagonists are not heroes and no white knights, just more inquisitive and independent than the rest of the trade.

The only thing I did not like was Steve Carells' characters story about his brothers suicide. It struck me as too clichéd and moralistic. I subsequently learned that the man it was based on had not lost his brother through suicide but his little child through an accident and hence, was in a place where he thought that 'everything could happen, to everybody, at any time'. That is a much more convincing narrative how somebody without Michael Burry's single-mindedness and biologically determined independence (Asperger's syndrom) could have stood there and declared: I am right on this one and it's the rest of the world that has went completely nuts. But that's the only weakness of the whole movie.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Missy B on February 19, 2016, 06:10:45 PM
Loved it. Telling everyone I know to see it. Put the book on hold at the library.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: RosieTR on February 19, 2016, 09:52:56 PM
The book has been out for some time, and is worth reading if you have to wait for the movie to be available at library/Netflix/etc.

I couldn't remember if the Brad Pitt character actually lived in Boulder...didn't think so because I probably would have noticed that when I read the book. But it was interesting the different characters and the way it was all explained. I don't think the movie went into the "thin file" people as much-kind of touched on it with the stripper person. When people talk on and on about how this was due in large part to the "irresponsible homebuyers" I have to say that that is a very small percentage of the problem. Most of the homebuyers who walked away "scot free," as some have suggested, in reality wound up with a much reduced standard of living, especially compared with the high-level bankers who went with a golden parachute or never lost their jobs at all. Then there were people like the renters in the movie, who were paying their rent on time but in a house with an owner who was losing it. Those are the people to feel bad for-the people who weren't getting caught up but got possibly screwed the most.

We lived through the housing crisis in Phoenix-purchasing a house there in mid-2008, thinking that it was "close to the bottom". Not out to make a quick (or any) profit, just not move multiple times and have to worry about keeping our 3 pets in a rental situation. We did wind up selling at a loss in 2014, and paid it, because we were lucky and employed and frugal. But if we could get hosed, with some experience, a bunch of resources, and common sense, it really didn't surprise me at all how many people got suckered. One example: our mortgage broker sent us a letter in about Dec 2008, to the effect of "get $30-40,000 more equity out of your house!" not, of course, mentioning *at interest* nor that our equity had already sunk nearly completely under what we'd put down on the house. He could NOT understand why we were not interested. He was *exactly* like the brokers in the movie. I won't lie-part of me hopes he's broke and lives in a shitty trailer somewhere. He was low on the totem pole as far as the folks in the financial sector who orchestrated this whole thing go, but he was definitely doing as little, and as crappy, work as he could possibly get away with in order to ride the gravy train.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: vern on February 20, 2016, 11:44:58 AM
Watched it just yesterday. Really good movie. I didn't realize Steve Carell could be great in a dramatic role.

Adventine, check out Foxcatcher for another great Steve Carell drama.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Adventine on February 20, 2016, 03:47:43 PM
^ Thanks for the recommendation! I'll check it out.
Title: The Big Short movie
Post by: arebelspy on February 20, 2016, 05:04:54 PM
Am I the only one who didn't care for it?

Quite dull. Nothing new, if you weren't under a rock the last few years.

So many good actors (normally really like Brad Pitt, Steve Carroll, and Christian Bale), and yet it was so bad.  Slow paced, not funny, stiff acting, very little plot.

Should have gone with my instincts halfway though and turned it off.

I'm shocked reading this thread. Apparently a lot of you really liked it.  Wow.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: iris lily on February 20, 2016, 05:10:28 PM
This is a black comedy, and we enjoyed it.

To put it into perspective, the guy who made this film also made The Landlord, you know, that viral video on You Tube with his friend Will Farrell and his tiny daighter who played the mean bitch.
I cant think of his name at the moment and am too lazy to google it.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Adventine on February 20, 2016, 05:15:12 PM
Am I the only one who didn't care for it?

Quite dull. Nothing new, if you weren't under a rock the last few years.

So many good actors (normally really like Brad Pitt, Steve Carroll, and Christian Bale), and yet it was so bad.  Slow paced, not funny, stiff acting, very little plot.

Should have gone with my instincts halfway though and turned it off.

I'm shocked reading this thread. Apparently a lot of you really liked it.  Wow.

Hmmm, what would you consider a good movie about the US financial system, then?
Title: The Big Short movie
Post by: arebelspy on February 20, 2016, 05:21:38 PM
Hmmm, what would you consider a good movie about the US financial system, then?

Not sure if I know one off the top of my head.

Not that one can't exist, but I'm not good at self-generating things like that.

Why do you assume there is one though?


EDIT: Like, are you looking for entertainment? Or to learn about the US financial system? Or what?  This movie didn't teach about the US financial system. It taught about one very narrow, niche thing that happened. It was accurate, but not novel.  If you want to learn, there's some good YouTube documentaries that are much better.  If you're looking to be entertained, likewise, there are much better movies. What criteria are you placing value on?
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Adventine on February 20, 2016, 05:33:14 PM
Well, I thought you were comparing The Big Short to a better movie about the same subject. But I guess the film just fell short of your movie standards in general?
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: slackmax on February 22, 2016, 06:48:54 PM
Saw it. Liked it. But the documentary film  "Inside Job" is far better at exposing all the reeking scumbags, at high and low level jobs,  who  caused the housing collapse and profited from it, and who got away with it.  The "unpunished scumbag"  syndrome is one reason that people are "feeling the Bern". I wouldn't vote for the Bern or for Hill, but I can understand people's hatred for Wall Street and it's minions who gouge and swindle without penalty.     
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: MidWestLove on March 06, 2016, 08:58:27 PM
"Hmmm, what would you consider a good movie about the US financial system, then?"

Margin Call is pretty good too , in a different way - shows how corporation thinks (of cause it does not think by itself, it is a legal function, but people inside of it trained to think).

Another interesting part for me for Margin Call was also a very effective demonstration how efficient and ruthlessly efficient modern corporate world is. modern 'western corporations' win because it simply runs better than any other form of organizing resources and labor , bar none. from the moment analyst discovered the issue until the time it went through the very heavy levels of management, through legal review, risk review, validation, solutioning, board of direction review and authorization, down to the actual plan and execution , all within less than a single night.

this is light years ahead and beyond anything  say other big organizations (i.e. governments) can execute.. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Tawcan on March 07, 2016, 04:54:49 PM
Really enjoyed the movie and didn't realize there's a book as well. My wife was saying it was kinda hard to follow all the financial terms but I was fascinated with everything that they explained in the movie. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Reynold on March 08, 2016, 08:16:55 AM
When people talk on and on about how this was due in large part to the "irresponsible homebuyers" I have to say that that is a very small percentage of the problem. Most of the homebuyers who walked away "scot free," as some have suggested, in reality wound up with a much reduced standard of living, especially compared with the high-level bankers who went with a golden parachute or never lost their jobs at all. Then there were people like the renters in the movie, who were paying their rent on time but in a house with an owner who was losing it.

Remember there were also the government folks encouraging, if not outright forcing, banks to make increasingly risky loans.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/

So it might be a little hypocritical for the government to charge bank executives with criminal acts for obeying mandates from their regulators.  Bad judgement, yes, perhaps even penalties, but criminality? 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on March 08, 2016, 09:09:41 AM
Saw this in the theater and really enjoyed it as well!
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: steveo on March 09, 2016, 12:35:35 AM
I recently watched this and I thought it was great.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: infogoon on March 09, 2016, 07:56:06 AM
I've put the book on my to-read list. I've somehow never read anything by Michael Lewis despite hearing about him for a while and even watching another movie based on his books ("The Blind Side").

_Boomerang_ is another excellent book of his; I especially enjoy his description of going for a bike ride with Arnold Schwarzenegger and discussing California's economy.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: JZinCO on March 09, 2016, 08:17:32 AM
I enjoyed the movie.

(1) Some people clearly anticipated this crash YEARS in advance. Were they just lucky or were the signs that obvious? What ELSE are we missing?

I got a clue to the oncoming crash when I visited Las Vegas for my FIL's 80th birthday party.  There were miles of streets with thousands of brand new McMansions all around us, and I said "There is no way there are enough people moving here with high enough incomes for all these."  I suspect there were a few other people who saw something similar as the crash was approaching, but not many, I think, who had access to enough information to conclude that there would be a nation-wide crash, vs. just in a few "overbuilt" markets.   That hadn't really happened before, nor had defaults on mortgages ever exceeded 5% or so, which kept the CDOs high rated.  Finally, there wasn't really a way to bet on a crash without constructing entirely new financial vehicles to do so, like John Paulson did.  The only option most of us would have is to sell our house and move to a rental for a few years, hoping to buy it back after a crash, which is a lot of work.
One thing that I note is that there are always people seeing something awry. Even when it is not. What is that quote I always hear different versions of? Economists have accurately predicted >X of the last X recessions/crashes? The *only* thing I could see wrong with this is that investors which are naturally pessimistic will see this movie as confirmation bias and will inappropriately respond to the next hunch they get. This will be to their detriment.

In other words, this movie is a product of survival bias. There are at least 100x more guys who wrongly predict the next bubble and end up losing their investors' shirts.
In a way this could be me! They old saying is that in 1999 taxi drivers on wall street were sharing the hottest tech stock tips. In the Big Short the stripper was buying tons of homes. Using this thermometer I have concluded that I do not want to own a house in my market. For example, I have a coworker whose 200K house appreciated by 45K and they are selling to buy a more expensive house only to expect the same to continue. I have had heated discussions with many coworkers who hold the opinion that homes are a great investment. 'Look at the past 5 years!' they say. Ugh, when graduate students in my office make ~30K stipends and are speculating in real estate I know something is wrong.
edit: When I say homes as an investment I mean they are relying on rising property values, but rental income.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: MustardTiger on March 17, 2016, 09:41:07 AM
I watched it on the last day of 2015 and thought it was one of the best films of the year.

What struck me:

(1) Some people clearly anticipated this crash YEARS in advance. Were they just lucky or were the signs that obvious? What ELSE are we missing?

(2) The executives got away with it. Their is little incentive for them to reign in their greed in the future because they know they'll get to keep all their bonuses and not suffer any consequences.

I've put the book on my to-read list. I've somehow never read anything by Michael Lewis despite hearing about him for a while and even watching another movie based on his books ("The Blind Side").

The book is quite good, but "The Blind Side" is great.  It is different from the movie in that it alternated between the Michael Oher story and an evolution of offensive football strategy.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: iris lily on March 17, 2016, 02:13:59 PM
Hmmm, what would you consider a good movie about the US financial system, then?

Not sure if I know one off the top of my head.

Not that one can't exist, but I'm not good at self-generating things like that.

Why do you assume there is one though?


EDIT: Like, are you looking for entertainment? Or to learn about the US financial system? Or what?  This movie didn't teach about the US financial system. It taught about one very narrow, niche thing that happened. It was accurate, but not novel.  If you want to learn, there's some good YouTube documentaries that are much better.  If you're looking to be entertained, likewise, there are much better movies. What criteria are you placing value on?

Im not the person you are addressing, but I found this film entertaining..

OF course it isn't educational, it is a Hollywood film. From Hollywood. That's in the LaLa land of entertainment.

It is fine for dramatically illustrating a few simple points of that last financial meltdown. Just a few, and very very simple ones, presented in a palatable way.

I think you are throwing cold water on the enthusiasm of many here for no reason by being pendantic. Relax, teach, even though I enjoyed this film, I'm not going to present it to my 10th grade econ class as the basis for a quiz about the complex relationships of Wall Street, investors, government regulation, and the real estate market. Not gonna do it. Dont have an econ class, anyway.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: forummm on March 21, 2016, 01:17:13 PM
I liked the book better. But the film does a good job of boiling the complicated stuff down so that it's understandable. I think the book actually does that too though.

For those who see the movie, the part at the end about the guy only investing in water now is not actually true. He has a number of areas of investing, and water is one of them.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: mrpercentage on March 21, 2016, 07:01:07 PM
OF course it isn't educational, it is a Hollywood film. From Hollywood. That's in the LaLa land of entertainment.


Not true. Some of life's greatest truths are captured by Hollywood. They do have one handicap-- they have to entertain.

I thought the film was good. I think it is a good reminder of exactly how screwed we all were. Our memory is short and a reminder of what happened is good for most. Home owning is viewed as an investment by many. As a person (a fault of my own ignorance) that was one of the many that got seriously screwed and is still underwater I think it is important. I have lived here 9 years and I might break even after I finish putting about $15,000 into it this year. Maybe I can squeeze $10,000 out of it if the housing holds up-- maybe. Worst investment ever. Lesson learned and reinforced several years in a row. I will probably just live here until its paid off.

For the record, I wanted to live here maybe 3 years build up a little equity to move to somewhere I really wanted to live and make it more affordable. That was my intention. I was a first time ignorant buyer who swallowed the non-sense that I didn't need to put much down and that I would be able to leave in a couple years with money.

Repairs for "investment"
new dishwasher
new washing machine
new refrigerator
new water heater
new gate to back yard-- electric company broke to read the meter
new toilet
garage ceiling repair x2
new garage door opener and two repairs-- it derailed "sprung" once
several cracking drywall repairs
new kitchen floor-- installed by me
new carpet
removing wallpaper everywhere
two pluming repairs
a new front door
this year:
all new windows-- the ones from 1971 suck
stucco-- the wood paneling is rotting
paint
grass/sprinklers
ac-- my furnace took a dump this winter and its the original
I need to replace the bathroom fans they stopped working about 5 years ago.
I also need to replace another squeaky whirlybird
and my back patio door will eventually need to be replaced. It has been repaired and it opens to the outside.
I forgot to mention I replace a ceiling fan that was humming really loud and a ceiling florescent light fixture and that the kitchens will probably need to be replaced because it kills bulbs and I have already replaced the balast(kick starter/ whatever you call it.)
You get the idea

Im actually at peace with it now and do love my neighborhood but I will not sugar coat the reality. Maybe it could save somebody the hardship.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: mrpercentage on March 21, 2016, 07:31:12 PM
As proof--You can see the new window and yard. Next is stucco. If you look to the right you can see my neighbor already had this done. He is in the broadcasting business but I will not put him on the spot. You may have seen him on TV though. And of course that is my dog.

(http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz124/azwolf25/Mobile%20Uploads/DB42940F-011D-4369-8544-577A2461DC0D.jpg) (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/azwolf25/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DB42940F-011D-4369-8544-577A2461DC0D.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: BlueHouse on May 11, 2016, 01:07:18 PM
Finally saw this film last night.  By nature, I am a worrier, but I ended up completely depressed and scared.  Everytime a banker or investor doubted the characters' beliefs that the housing market would tank, they just kept saying "The market always goes up".  Isn't this the same answer that we get when we ask "why index?"  And when the economy tanks, we will tank with it.  I'm realizing now just how lucky I was not to have lost my job or my house in that crises.  It's pretty likely that if I didn't have family that convinced me to move back in 2001 after the dot com crisis , I would still be in a shit-town with crap job prospects and when the housing crises hit, I may have had serious trouble then.     

I thought War Games had it right ....the only way to win is to not play.  Now I feel like I just want to get a portion of my money out of the game.

If someone can make me happy that I'm following the right path, please try.  Otherwise, I am again overly worried about my future. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Heywood57 on May 11, 2016, 01:26:43 PM
The book was great, the movie was unwatchable.

The constant pan, zoom, extreme closeup, pan, zoom, extreme closeup was awful.





Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: comp@26 on May 11, 2016, 01:40:48 PM
Who realized that the real Michael Burry was in the movie?
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: robartsd on May 11, 2016, 02:24:20 PM
I liked the Mortgage Professor's take on the film (http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Public%20Policy%20Issues/Review_of_the_Big_Short.html). Basically, his view is that the bankers were all doing what the government signaled for them to do.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: BTDretire on May 23, 2016, 01:58:16 PM
(2) The executives got away with it. Their is little incentive for them to reign in their greed in the future because they know they'll get to keep all their bonuses and not suffer any consequences.

The same can be said about all the homeowners who took out mortgages they either had no intention of paying back or only had the expectation to hold the mortgage for a short period of time because their house was "for sure going up in price."  The greed worked both ways: banks were overly eager to lend money, and consumers were overly eager to take on debt because they "perceived" easy returns.  It is unfortunate that the narrative about lack of punishment doesn't incorporate the various government and bank programs rolled out to "help" underwater homeowners totaled billions of dollars; money that was not made available to responsible consumers or the lack of mortgage recourse for banks that were saddled with assets (homes) with plummeting values (2007-2010) and homeowners who we able to walk away scot free.

Yep, kinda sucked, I lost about $120,000 (46%) on my home, but I had to pay the bill
to bail out those that went underwater. The difference, they didn't save to buy their home and got a mortgage, I paid cash, I didn't get bailed out. Do the right thing, get screwed.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: lostamonkey on May 23, 2016, 02:38:59 PM
Finally saw this film last night.  By nature, I am a worrier, but I ended up completely depressed and scared.  Everytime a banker or investor doubted the characters' beliefs that the housing market would tank, they just kept saying "The market always goes up".  Isn't this the same answer that we get when we ask "why index?"  And when the economy tanks, we will tank with it.  I'm realizing now just how lucky I was not to have lost my job or my house in that crises.  It's pretty likely that if I didn't have family that convinced me to move back in 2001 after the dot com crisis , I would still be in a shit-town with crap job prospects and when the housing crises hit, I may have had serious trouble then.     

I thought War Games had it right ....the only way to win is to not play.  Now I feel like I just want to get a portion of my money out of the game.

If someone can make me happy that I'm following the right path, please try.  Otherwise, I am again overly worried about my future.

Real estate and the stock market both go up over the long run. They both also produce income. The stock market produces dividends and the real estate market market produces tenant and imputed rents. The bankers pre-crisis convinced people that real estate had no downside risk in the short run and that it was okay to leverage 20x without sufficient income. If you leverage that much in the stock market and lose everything, I don't think many people would feel bad for you.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Drifterrider on May 25, 2016, 08:17:10 AM
The best part of that movie was that I got it from the library.  Got the book there too.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: englishteacheralex on June 10, 2016, 03:56:02 PM
Saw it last week and think it's great. The Big Short and Margin Call provide the best explanation of the financial crisis to lay people that I have seen or read. Out of the two, The Big Short is both more informative and more entertaining.

It also struck me as very mustachian. Not only because of Brad Pitt's character but the whole 'outsiders gaming the system' narrative. The protagonists are not heroes and no white knights, just more inquisitive and independent than the rest of the trade.

The only thing I did not like was Steve Carells' characters story about his brothers suicide. It struck me as too clichéd and moralistic. I subsequently learned that the man it was based on had not lost his brother through suicide but his little child through an accident and hence, was in a place where he thought that 'everything could happen, to everybody, at any time'. That is a much more convincing narrative how somebody without Michael Burry's single-mindedness and biologically determined independence (Asperger's syndrom) could have stood there and declared: I am right on this one and it's the rest of the world that has went completely nuts. But that's the only weakness of the whole movie.

I read the book and thought the exact same thing about the brother suicide narrative in the movie. But I immediately thought--oh, dead baby is too heavy for a movie like this; it's a larger order of magnitude and would derail the rest of the plot. Because dead baby stops any story in its tracks. Too sad. Everybody immediately flashes to their own baby and stifles a sob about how they would feel if it happened to them.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: woopwoop on June 10, 2016, 05:05:20 PM
I really enjoyed this movie. Thought it had great understated acting, witty dialogue, and nicely laid out the details of what happened to create the subprime mortgage crisis. Some expository parts were heavyhanded for me but watching it with the husband, he said that the explanations were not overdone for him - so I think I just went in knowing more than their average viewer. I was laughing out loud in parts, and the emotional stuff was enough without being overbearingly hollywood.

I don't quite understand ARS's objections that it wasn't as informative as a documentary or as entertaining as Star Wars or whatever. It was an intelligent and funny movie about an interesting topic that isn't commonly explored in Hollywood. From what I've heard talking with other people less dialed into financial news, it was very informative to them while still being funny to people who already knew the background. Nobody is going to watch a youtube documentary about subprime mortgages unless they're already immersed in the stuff; a movie with Brad Pitt and Steve Carell will draw a wide crowd of people and help inform them on a topic that most people plug their ears to because financial shit is boring. I think that's immensely valuable on a wide scale, apart from the fact that it was just an enjoyable movie for me personally.

Like history movies (Enemy at the Gates), it gives a nice overview of facts inside the structure of a story. As a teacher and writer, I know that storytelling is one way to make things stick in the brain where normally they wouldn't. I think this kind of movie is worthwhile simply for that reason.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: iris lily on June 11, 2016, 09:47:36 AM
I really enjoyed this movie. Thought it had great understated acting, witty dialogue, and nicely laid out the details of what happened to create the subprime mortgage crisis. Some expository parts were heavyhanded for me but watching it with the husband, he said that the explanations were not overdone for him - so I think I just went in knowing more than their average viewer. I was laughing out loud in parts, and the emotional stuff was enough without being overbearingly hollywood.

I don't quite understand ARS's objections that it wasn't as informative as a documentary or as entertaining as Star Wars or whatever. It was an intelligent and funny movie about an interesting topic that isn't commonly explored in Hollywood. From what I've heard talking with other people less dialed into financial news, it was very informative to them while still being funny to people who already knew the background. Nobody is going to watch a youtube documentary about subprime mortgages unless they're already immersed in the stuff; a movie with Brad Pitt and Steve Carell will draw a wide crowd of people and help inform them on a topic that most people plug their ears to because financial shit is boring. I think that's immensely valuable on a wide scale, apart from the fact that it was just an enjoyable movie for me personally.

Like history movies (Enemy at the Gates), it gives a nice overview of facts inside the structure of a story. As a teacher and writer, I know that storytelling is one way to make things stick in the brain where normally they wouldn't. I think this kind of movie is worthwhile simply for that reason.

You said it better than I was able to say it.

As a lifetime fan of fiction, I respect the  truths that come out of a well written novel. There can be a lot fo chew on in novels.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: arebelspy on June 29, 2016, 02:34:37 AM
Finally saw this film last night.  By nature, I am a worrier, but I ended up completely depressed and scared.  Everytime a banker or investor doubted the characters' beliefs that the housing market would tank, they just kept saying "The market always goes up".  Isn't this the same answer that we get when we ask "why index?"  And when the economy tanks, we will tank with it.  I'm realizing now just how lucky I was not to have lost my job or my house in that crises.  It's pretty likely that if I didn't have family that convinced me to move back in 2001 after the dot com crisis , I would still be in a shit-town with crap job prospects and when the housing crises hit, I may have had serious trouble then.     

I thought War Games had it right ....the only way to win is to not play.  Now I feel like I just want to get a portion of my money out of the game.

If someone can make me happy that I'm following the right path, please try.  Otherwise, I am again overly worried about my future.

Short of civilization collapse though, it DOES always go up... on a long enough time frame.  Inflation basically guarantees it.  I guarantee you houses will be higher in nominal dollars in 30 years than they were in 2006.  Many places already passed those highs.  Others will at some point.

The thing is, the stock market in the short term is volatile--it will go up, and down.  In the long run though, it is ownership in businesses that produce real value.  That's something useful to own.  It has nothing to do with hoping it goes up.

That's what a bubble is--underlying values not supporting current prices, yet hoping some bigger sucker comes along to buy it from you at a higher price.  It's speculation.

Stock market investing, if done right, shouldn't be speculation.  It should be based on solid, underlying fundamentally strong investments.  And those have real value, not just hope.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: NoStacheOhio on June 29, 2016, 08:22:30 AM
Sidebar, this is coming to Netflix in July. Definitely adding it to my queue!
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: JackieTreehorn on July 14, 2016, 03:22:54 PM
I think Margin Call is the only one of these 2008 crash movies that is worth watching.  I agreed with it's point of view which is not that wall street is bad or that people were too greedy or that the government needs to do more to stop the big bad wolves of wall street etc., it's that the financial sector is too big.  People should be doing more productive things with their lives (e.g. the character played by Stanley Tucci, a former civil engineer), but instead have been lured into finance because of the lucrative pay.  The crash of 2008 was a corrective force that should have rebalanced the economy by dramatically reducing the size of the financial sector and bankrupting some of the firms that had made huge, unwise bets on the housing market, but of course the government (mostly) bailed them all out.  The acting was great, especially Paul Bettany and Jeremy Irons.

This one felt kinda preachy and not as funny as the people making it thought it was.  I thought Steve Carrell and Christian Bale were both kinda one-notey in their performances (the same note for both characters), although I'd watch the Baby Goose brush his teeth and find it interesting.

I also wouldn't bother with Too Big to Fail or that documentary narrated by Matt Damon (can't remember the name) that covers the same subject matter.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Metric Mouse on July 17, 2016, 11:14:38 PM
Sidebar, this is coming to Netflix in July. Definitely adding it to my queue!

Nice to know. I've been looking forward to seeing it after the glowing recommendations from posters here. Hopefully it's good enough to entertain SWMBO as well.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: gggggg on July 18, 2016, 02:09:29 PM
It's on netflix streaming now, just pulled it up.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: BlueHouse on July 18, 2016, 02:49:54 PM
So mad I paid for it.  This seems to always happen.  I only pay for movies very rarely, but every time, it's on Netflix within a month. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Koogie on July 19, 2016, 08:07:18 AM
It's on netflix streaming now, just pulled it up.

So is Margin Call.      Make it a double feature...  :o)
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: gggggg on July 19, 2016, 05:32:43 PM
Looks like margin call is DVD only. I wish it were streaming. BTW The Big Short was great imo.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Koogie on July 20, 2016, 07:35:51 AM
Looks like margin call is DVD only. I wish it were streaming. BTW The Big Short was great imo.

Ah, guess that must be the difference between Netflix Canada and Netflix USA.   

By the by, did they increase the monthly price in the US as well ?   Our grandathered 7.99/mo. was increased to 9.99/mo effective July.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: NextTime on July 20, 2016, 12:34:46 PM
Goes up next month for me.

Not sure why so many are bent out of shape about it. $9.99 is a reasonable price for all that content. Did they expect the price to remain static for all eternity?
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Metric Mouse on July 20, 2016, 07:11:27 PM
Netflix has a 'lower' tier plan available for 7 or 8 bucks. Just one device and standard definition, I think, if money was a big deal.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: FrenchStache on July 23, 2016, 03:11:20 PM
I enjoyed the movie as well since I like learning about the crash.  I thought Steve Carell was really good in it as well as the other other guys.  The sad thing for me is that I am sure new subprime products have been created or are still there and we are back to doing the same old thing.  I hope I am wrong and that regulations prevent these things from happening.  But as you know, people will always get creative and create the next thing.  Also a shocking reminder that not a single person got in trouble for it and we the taxpayers bailed out the banks.  Haven't seen the return on that money yet, have you? hahaha
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: arebelspy on July 23, 2016, 03:34:41 PM
Also a shocking reminder that not a single person got in trouble for it and we the taxpayers bailed out the banks.  Haven't seen the return on that money yet, have you? hahaha

I sure did see the return--our economy not crashing into a great depression lasting to this day. 

Now that's not to say I don't think the bankers should be held responsible, I do.  Many of them should be in jail.

But to say we haven't seen a return on that money implies that we shouldn't have done the bailout, but we should have, and we have seen a return, IMO.  :)
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: FrenchStache on July 23, 2016, 06:22:16 PM
Also a shocking reminder that not a single person got in trouble for it and we the taxpayers bailed out the banks.  Haven't seen the return on that money yet, have you? hahaha

I sure did see the return--our economy not crashing into a great depression lasting to this day. 

Now that's not to say I don't think the bankers should be held responsible, I do.  Many of them should be in jail.

But to say we haven't seen a return on that money implies that we shouldn't have done the bailout, but we should have, and we have seen a return, IMO.  :)

I agree with you that it turned around the economy and saved us from falling off the cliff.  I do think that we may not realize or appreciate how close we came to being far worse off. 

Does it mean that it is the solution each time the banks play with fire?  Throw tax payer money at the issue.  I know it's better than the alternative but it feels like we will always be at the short end of the stick. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: forummm on July 24, 2016, 03:19:38 PM
Also a shocking reminder that not a single person got in trouble for it and we the taxpayers bailed out the banks.  Haven't seen the return on that money yet, have you? hahaha

I sure did see the return--our economy not crashing into a great depression lasting to this day. 

Now that's not to say I don't think the bankers should be held responsible, I do.  Many of them should be in jail.

But to say we haven't seen a return on that money implies that we shouldn't have done the bailout, but we should have, and we have seen a return, IMO.  :)

I agree with you that it turned around the economy and saved us from falling off the cliff.  I do think that we may not realize or appreciate how close we came to being far worse off. 

Does it mean that it is the solution each time the banks play with fire?  Throw tax payer money at the issue.  I know it's better than the alternative but it feels like we will always be at the short end of the stick. 

We also did get paid back all the bailout money. Plus interest. Now, the government gave really over generous terms for those cash infusions. Really, we should have charged market rates and made a lot for the taxpayers--we were taking on tremendous risk, and were the only source of such huge reserves of capital, and should have been compensated for both of these factors.

I agree that our policy is lacking. Now the "too big to fail" banks are even bigger than they were before the crash.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: wildbeast on August 10, 2016, 11:55:59 AM
Just watched this last weekend and dh and I both really liked it.  Afterwards when you realize just how screwed up everything is, you do feel kinda depressed.  But we found the movie funny and interesting. 
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Cognitive Miser on August 30, 2016, 12:43:50 PM
My brother chose this book for me as a Christmas gift shortly after it came out, and although I hadn't even heard of it, I quite enjoyed it.  It does a better job of explaining the details of the crisis.

I watched the movie on Netflix with my husband a couple of weekends ago (his pick) and quite enjoyed it too!  I was surprised by Steve Carrell's acting... no "Anchorman" here!  If all you've seen him in is dumb comedy, this was a refreshing change.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: MasterStache on August 31, 2016, 11:07:49 AM
I saw this movie and really liked it.

One thing I find very ironic is that I STILL see folks claiming that the downfall of our economic system is/was/will be the result of immigrants and poor people.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: yuka on August 31, 2016, 12:05:07 PM
I'll join in rezzing this thread. I like the movie a lot. I always get excited to watch it (now 3 or 4 times), and by the end of the movie I'm furious. It also gave me a newfound fascination with visiting half-finished developments; I actually tried to rent a condo in one.

Favorite line (when they're in FL):
Carrel: I don't get it, why are they confessing to us?
(Some other character): They aren't. They're bragging.

Also, the stripper with five houses.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Proud Foot on August 31, 2016, 12:26:57 PM
Watched this the other night.  I found it very interesting and thought it was good how they explained the things in a way most would understand.  The thing I learned from it was how the S&P and Moody's played a role in how they rated the issues.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Jrr85 on August 31, 2016, 12:36:13 PM
Am I the only one who didn't care for it?

Quite dull. Nothing new, if you weren't under a rock the last few years.

So many good actors (normally really like Brad Pitt, Steve Carroll, and Christian Bale), and yet it was so bad.  Slow paced, not funny, stiff acting, very little plot.

Should have gone with my instincts halfway though and turned it off.

I'm shocked reading this thread. Apparently a lot of you really liked it.  Wow.

I am with you.  I thought it was pretty awful.  It did some good stuff regarding making relatively dry subjects entertaining, but I would be seriously surprised if most people got even a rudimentary understanding of what happened.  If I didn't already have a good idea, I think the explanations would have been too simplifying to be enlightening. 

The characters were also awful.  I don't think it was the acting as much as the writing did a terrible job converting the real life characters from teh book to big screen characters. 

I also thought the portion of the book with the old lady from Moody's was ridiculously ham handed.  They couldn't get the conflict of interest across without having the Moody's person literally admit cooking the ratings in order to keep business?   
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: clarkfan1979 on August 31, 2016, 01:20:10 PM
I liked the movie more than marginal call. I love the plot because they are betting against everyone else. I live my life in a similar fashion.

I didn't see the crash coming, but I knew what to do when it hit. I bought one house at the bottom of the market in a college town in Colorado in 2007. The neighborhood didn't tank very much because it so close to a large university. However, I still bought at the bottom. I also bought at the bottom in Florida in 2012. I had the house under contract in 2011, but due to 3 months of delays in closing, we finally closed in Jan 2012.

I basically bought when everyone else was telling me not to do it. There was alot of fear in the housing market when I bought, which provided low prices. It's a little frustrating because some of my friends and family now think it was common sense when I bought. They say, "Of course it was going to go back up." However, some of them specifically told me not to do it when I did.

If I bought in 2007 in Florida that would have been a really bad time because prices were still high. If I bought in the Colorado neighborhood in 2012, the neighborhood already recovered and it would have been really expensive. When prices are high that is when everyone is asking me if I'm going to buy another rental. I'm like, "No way, it's way too expensive." They usually look at me like was a confused look on their face and then we talk about something else.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: LMBB on September 14, 2016, 09:45:08 PM
I loved this movie. (Full disclosure, I am a health services researcher and novice health economist)

For others that liked it too, I would highly recommend the book "Misbehaving", by Richard Thaler. He is a behavioral economist that made a cameo appearance in The Big Short explaining the various economic concepts covered in the movie.

Traditional economic principles assume that people make rational decisions and are constantly optimizing. In reality, we don't (I found this concept pretty obvious, but apparently not to traditional academic economists). Misbehaving is the story of Richard Thaler's career, beginning as a graduate student and noting all the areas where people behave exactly the opposite of how economic theory would predict them to behave. He later worked with Nobel prize winning psychologist Daniel Kahneman (Of "Thinking, Fast and Slow" fame) on how human decision making impacts financial decisions. This book is the story of how behavioral economics went from a rogue academic field to a prominent area of inquiry. Dr. Thaler has consulted with NFL teams, financial firms, and both the US and UK governments over the years.

I thought the book was so fascinating and provided a lot of insight into why people make flawed financial decisions. It even touches very briefly on the tech and housing bubble bursts, but it's more of an aside than the central theme of the book.

Seems like something that might interest the folks on this blog. I listened to the audiobook because multitasking!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26530355
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: joninnyc on September 20, 2016, 10:09:27 PM
This is an extremely complicated topic, and as someone earlier mentioned, it's Hollywood. What you see in the movie (and in the book, even) are not the whole or even real story. You're getting a fun version to hook you in both the book and movie. If you've already taken the time to watch the movie and are interested in actually understanding what happened, a good place to start is this article from the excellent Naked Capitalism: Debunking the Big Short (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/12/debunking-the-big-short-how-michael-lewis-turned-the-real-villains-of-the-crisis-into-heros.html)
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: clarkfan1979 on September 21, 2016, 01:38:11 AM
I loved this movie. (Full disclosure, I am a health services researcher and novice health economist)

For others that liked it too, I would highly recommend the book "Misbehaving", by Richard Thaler. He is a behavioral economist that made a cameo appearance in The Big Short explaining the various economic concepts covered in the movie.

Traditional economic principles assume that people make rational decisions and are constantly optimizing. In reality, we don't (I found this concept pretty obvious, but apparently not to traditional academic economists). Misbehaving is the story of Richard Thaler's career, beginning as a graduate student and noting all the areas where people behave exactly the opposite of how economic theory would predict them to behave. He later worked with Nobel prize winning psychologist Daniel Kahneman (Of "Thinking, Fast and Slow" fame) on how human decision making impacts financial decisions. This book is the story of how behavioral economics went from a rogue academic field to a prominent area of inquiry. Dr. Thaler has consulted with NFL teams, financial firms, and both the US and UK governments over the years.

I thought the book was so fascinating and provided a lot of insight into why people make flawed financial decisions. It even touches very briefly on the tech and housing bubble bursts, but it's more of an aside than the central theme of the book.

Seems like something that might interest the folks on this blog. I listened to the audiobook because multitasking!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26530355

I know the movie is for entertainment purposes. However, if you are familiar with behavioral economics, the movie is very entertaining.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: infogoon on September 21, 2016, 08:52:50 AM
I remember reading that Thaler was hired by the Redskins to train their scouting department and draft team in optimal methods for handling the draft. They spent weeks training them, and then when the draft rolled around the training was basically ignored in favor of "gut feelings" and other traditional nonsense.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: GuitarStv on September 21, 2016, 11:12:38 AM
I remember reading that Thaler was hired by the Redskins to train their scouting department and draft team in optimal methods for handling the draft. They spent weeks training them, and then when the draft rolled around the training was basically ignored in favor of "gut feelings" and other traditional nonsense.

See Also: Moneyball
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: LMBB on September 22, 2016, 01:25:52 AM
I remember reading that Thaler was hired by the Redskins to train their scouting department and draft team in optimal methods for handling the draft. They spent weeks training them, and then when the draft rolled around the training was basically ignored in favor of "gut feelings" and other traditional nonsense.

Yep, that's covered in Misbehaving. He provides an interesting analysis of the value of trading picks and how well "high cost" players perform relative to the opportunity costs. He's done a lot of really cool stuff.

Of course, as a health services researcher studying antibiotic selection and physician decision making, Nudge is more directly relevant to my work but I still couldn't put Misbehaving down. I kept thinking about the terrible decisions people make with their money (myself included, more so in my pre-mustache days) and his work helps partially explain some of those decisions. His writing style is engaging and funny. He calls behavioral economics "the un-dismal science" and I have to agree. Fascinating stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: fdhs_runner on September 30, 2016, 03:40:23 AM
Looks like margin call is DVD only. I wish it were streaming. BTW The Big Short was great imo.

Ah, guess that must be the difference between Netflix Canada and Netflix USA.   

By the by, did they increase the monthly price in the US as well ?   Our grandathered 7.99/mo. was increased to 9.99/mo effective July.

Margin Call is on Netflix streaming everywhere if you feel like paying a few extra bucks a month for a VPN: http://unogs.com/video/?v=70167125

I saw Too Big to Fail, which was ok. If you watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqf97p1Rdm0 then you've basically seen Too Big to Fail.

If you're into 2008 Crash movies: http://fortune.com/2015/12/27/big-short-wall-street-movies/
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: Mississippi Mudstache on September 30, 2016, 06:51:30 AM
Just watched The Big Short last night. Excellent movie. Also extremely depressing. I can't help but wonder if we're erecting another house of cards from the rubble.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: erutio on September 30, 2016, 11:05:55 AM
Just watched The Big Short last night. Excellent movie. Also extremely depressing. I can't help but wonder if we're erecting another house of cards from the rubble.
SPOILER ALERT:  (Do I even need to put this on a movie based on real life events...?)

Lol I also watched it last night on Netflix with DW.  I had to pause the movies several times to further explain some financial terms to her, but she found the movie entertaining.  Knowing that it's based on a non-fiction event, it is still a movie for the purpose of entertainment, and I loved it.

Definitely some mustachian characteristics in Brad Pitt's character (the seeds, the ER, family), but also a little too tin-foily. 
I thought it was very interesting that instead of showing a big celebration and payoff for the 3 firms in the end, the filmmakers shows the viewers how each firm was struggling with their own morals of profiting off the fraud, mistakes, and job/homes loses of millions of others.   Whether this happen irl or not, I thought the juxtaposition was very effective storytelling. 
Especially poignant was Brad Pitt tempering the excitement of his proteges and explaining that real lives were being adversely affected by the turn of events in the market. 

I understand that is it a highly dramatized version of the events, but it entertained DW and myself for 2 hrs, and it gave us a little food for thought, which is all I look for in a Hollywood movie anyways. 

Both DW and I graduated in 2008, and landed our first real grown-up jobs in summer/fall of that year, so we were too young and had too little money to have been affected by it.  In fact, we have basically only lived through a bull market in our adult working lives, going on 7 years.   A movie like this is hugely entertaining to me because I never experienced it firsthand, and wonder how we would truly react if another downturn came. 
Thinking about it, we were lucky that our life stages just happened to market-time for us.  I didn't start contributing to my 401k until around Jan 09, and I think I did it at first just for the company match.  And houses were more reasonable and mortages low when we were ready to buy a few years down the line.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: bacchi on September 30, 2016, 10:06:14 PM
I liked the Mortgage Professor's take on the film (http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Public%20Policy%20Issues/Review_of_the_Big_Short.html). Basically, his view is that the bankers were all doing what the government signaled for them to do.

Eh, most of the subprime loans were not made under the mandate of the CRA.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: yoop on December 26, 2016, 10:01:03 AM
ONE guy picked up on what was happening very early - christian bale's character. He released a news letter for his investors. one of the news letters got out to other people. christian bale's character has Aspergers, so he has the patience to pour over stock market and investment information. he realizes that adjustable rate mortgages made to people with horrible credit are getting up sold as better quality than what they are. he makes up a bet against these bonds. his leaked news letter gets to a guy that also starts making bets on these mortgage bonds failing. which gets a few other people curious. then a market opens for these bets and it goes as well as the mortgage bonds with people falsifying these too. the only ones who make money, it seems, are the ones who were in early and just stayed with their original bets against the bonds, christian bale, steve carroll's group and the guy with the cards falling over. the banks all got bail outs so are right back to doing what they did before.

i read the book and can't remember the names of the people. i watched the movie and loved it.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on December 26, 2016, 07:50:39 PM
I only wish the movie had a sequel that addressed the fallout, there is so much good, bizarre stuff still to unpack.  This YouTube clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYhrcLm20VI), for instance, where congress tries to figure out if a $700B blank cheque to Wall Street is really a good idea.  At first they were unified on 'of course not', but eventually it got a redo and passed!

This will probably happen over and over again in our lifetime, so it's good to try to learn more about.  Surprisingly few people recall any of the details, and the details happen to affect any and every working and retired person that depend on banks, government infrastructure, and investment banks (which is now everybody).  I personally just sit back and laugh at our species, being the 'most intelligent living organism on the plant', that we've created our own trap.  Disease couldn't wipe us out (bacteria, virus), nuclear war was a possible threat, climate change still might come to pass if we limp that far - but simple compounding social disorder could unwind all of the 'invisible hands' that brought our species to this happy era we have enjoyed presently. 

Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: yuka on January 30, 2017, 02:40:51 PM
I only wish the movie had a sequel that addressed the fallout, there is so much good, bizarre stuff still to unpack.  This YouTube clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYhrcLm20VI), for instance, where congress tries to figure out if a $700B blank cheque to Wall Street is really a good idea.  At first they were unified on 'of course not', but eventually it got a redo and passed!

This will probably happen over and over again in our lifetime, so it's good to try to learn more about.  Surprisingly few people recall any of the details, and the details happen to affect any and every working and retired person that depend on banks, government infrastructure, and investment banks (which is now everybody).  I personally just sit back and laugh at our species, being the 'most intelligent living organism on the plant', that we've created our own trap.  Disease couldn't wipe us out (bacteria, virus), nuclear war was a possible threat, climate change still might come to pass if we limp that far - but simple compounding social disorder could unwind all of the 'invisible hands' that brought our species to this happy era we have enjoyed presently.

First of all, I'd like to contest the idea that the $700B spent actually mattered. Or alternatively, that it was only $700B. In reality, they spent $700B, but sent a ~$23trillion promise to Wall Street. It certainly wasn't the first time (Mexico, 1993 comes to mind.)

To agree with you on the second point, it certainly will:  http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/governments-fannie-mae-will-back-pe-giant-blackstones-rental-business-debt.html

Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: marty998 on January 31, 2017, 04:47:45 AM
Saw the movie last weekend. Enjoyed it, and not just because of Margot Robbie in a bubble bath :D

Agree with earlier posters that hollywood usually makes a hash of financial films - Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps is a hatchet job for example.

This one was pretty good, and even taught me a couple of things that I didn't know about.
Title: Re: The Big Short movie
Post by: loraine on February 16, 2017, 09:41:55 PM
There are a lot of positive feedbacks about the movie in this thread. I have not seen it yet, but I will pretty soon.