Author Topic: Science-based book on sustainability?  (Read 71291 times)

fallstoclimb

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Science-based book on sustainability?
« on: April 30, 2015, 09:56:03 AM »
So I have picked up here and there over the years that a lot of what we consider pro-environmental actions aren't actually as positive as they first seem. For instance, recycling prevents waste and lets us reuse raw materials but requires a lot of energy in itself, especially now that we have a lot of processing plants overseas (at least that is what I've heard).  Or solar isn't as green as one may think because it requires non-renewable resources to create -- and so on. 

I'm especially interested in recycling vs composting (e.g. cardboard and paper).  I assume composting is better, because it uses no energy to reduce waste, but on the other hand it is taking raw materials out of circulation.  That's just one small example and either way it probably doesn't matter much in the scheme of things (I mean how much paper can I compost in my single  bin anyway??) but it just bothers me to feel so uneducated in this area.  I've been taking a lot of things as fact without actually doing the research first.

Does anyone know of a book on sustainable living that takes a science based approach to these issues?

velocistar237

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 10:47:08 AM »
I had heard of these but had not read all of them.

Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air by David MacKay
How Bad are Bananas by Mike Berners-Lee
Cradle to Cradle: Remaking the Way We Make Things by Michael Braungart and William McDonough
Before the Lights Go Out by Maggie Koerth-Baker

Bonus book that ERE Jacob likes
Overshoot by William Catton

DarinC

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 03:31:02 PM »
Without hot air is great!

It's true that recycling/etc... isn't totally environmentally benign, but I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention given how many "studies" are out there just to smear cost reducing measures that also happen to be good for the environment.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2008/03/tank_vs_hybrid.html

dios.del.sol

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 10:39:40 PM »
+1 to Hot Air

I'll add to the list "The Skeptical Environmentalist" by Bjorn Lomborg. This has been criticized severely, so you'll probably want to follow the argument between Lomborg and other scientists. A web search for "lomborg criticism" should be a good start.

I'll also add the blog "Do the Math".

clifp

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 10:42:50 PM »
+10 for Hot Air, truly an outstanding book.  It is available for free, http://www.withouthotair.com/and frankly if people want to talk about energy and they haven't at least read the summary of the book, I have hard time taking their arguments seriously.

fallstoclimb

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2015, 10:16:47 AM »
Thank you!  I'll definitely be putting Hot Air on the reading list.  That Green Lantern blog looks like exactly what I was hoping to find, too bad it seems to have ended back in 2012.


RelaxedGal

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 11:23:49 AM »
I'm reading "How Bad are Bananas" right now and enjoying it.  So far it's reminding me to reduce my animal consumption and making me question my mid-winter flight to Someplace Warm.

I'll have to put "Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air" on my reading list, thanks for the resounding recommendations!

fallstoclimb

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2015, 01:37:14 PM »
I think I'm afraid to know the answer to How Bad are Bananas.  (I can only assume it is Very Bad).

TrulyStashin

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2015, 01:51:33 PM »
I've been working in this area for about 7 years now (environmental law/ land use/ sustainability).  Keep in mind that: 

1) All environmental "problems" are not created equal -- e.g. what's a bigger problem, the environmental footprint of making a solar panel or the impact of burning the fossil fuels that would be burned but for the solar panel?   Most of the current analysis says that, for now at least, the bigger problem is the fossil  fuel impact (GHG emissions, fly ash storage/ disposal, disposal of contaminated water from fracking, high water demand from fracking, mountaintop removal, health impacts -- asthma, etc and etc.).  That might change at some point, that it's the current consensus.

Example:  In the early 1970's polluted water was a river-on-fire screaming problem in the U.S.  Thus, the Clean Water Act in 1972 which has been a tremendous success (not that it couldn't be better, but overall, policy goals were achieved).  This is no longer an urgent problem and we can, and should, focus on more urgent problems.

2) It's ALL a trade off. The question is -- what are we willing to compromise right now to achieve a goal with greater urgency?

It's not a scientific book, but "Green to Gold" lays out the business case for sustainability.

velocistar237

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 02:28:32 PM »
I think I'm afraid to know the answer to How Bad are Bananas.  (I can only assume it is Very Bad).

Nope.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/jul/01/carbon-footprint-banana

I think he picked bananas for the title because people expect imported fruit to have a high carbon footprint.

fallstoclimb

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2015, 06:31:23 AM »
Hey! That's a welcome surprise. I freaking love bananas. I will add that book to the list too then.

TheAnonOne

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 09:59:34 AM »
I generally think that quite a few environmental issues will solve themselves due to just general progress in technology.

Oil, being a low hanging fruit in energy terms, was used first, however, throughout the last hundred + years we have continuously gotten more efficient in its use.

Likewise, will we have gigantic carbon footprint issues if every car, truck, and semi go to electric over the next 100 years? What if the electricity is generated by solar, wind, nuclear and eventually (hopefully) fusion?

To a degree, I do question the benefit of avoiding meat, avoiding air travel, and other small things an individual can do, when the societal fixes are the key.

kendallf

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 11:52:17 AM »
Thanks for the link to Without the Hot Air above.  I've read the synopses and will read the whole book over the next few days.  Good stuff.  It's sort of depressing to see the stats on long distance airflight energy use; dammit, I like to fly to far off places!

TheAnonOne, the author addresses your point when he mentions lists that tell people to unplug their mobile phone chargers, for instance, which uses about as much energy daily as one second of driving a car.. he makes the point that significant changes in consumption and supply will require significant infrastructure and investment change.  I particularly like the maps showing wind and tidal energy farms around Britain.

Technological help has to come, and it will come as non-renewable resources are exhausted and greener alternatives become cheaper by comparison. 

fallstoclimb

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2015, 04:29:37 PM »
To a degree, I do question the benefit of avoiding meat, avoiding air travel, and other small things an individual can do, when the societal fixes are the key.

I do largely agree with this sentiment, however, I think the complete disregard most Americans have of the effect of their actions on the environment is breathtakingly horrifying.  Fixing things at a systems-level would be most efficient, but what politician is going to push for change without knowing their constituency wants it?  The best thing I can do as an individual is adopt small manageable changes and push for my peers to as well.  Maybe it'll balloon, like the plastic bag backlash.  It's the only thing within our control.

I am not as confident as others that technological progress will solve this problem.  Global warming is still, somehow, being debated in the mainstream press.  By the time everyone is on board with the concept it may be too late to change.  I certainly hope I'm wrong.

DarinC

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Re: Science-based book on sustainability?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2015, 05:28:43 PM »
I generally think that quite a few environmental issues will solve themselves due to just general progress in technology.

Oil, being a low hanging fruit in energy terms, was used first, however, throughout the last hundred + years we have continuously gotten more efficient in its use.

Likewise, will we have gigantic carbon footprint issues if every car, truck, and semi go to electric over the next 100 years? What if the electricity is generated by solar, wind, nuclear and eventually (hopefully) fusion?

To a degree, I do question the benefit of avoiding meat, avoiding air travel, and other small things an individual can do, when the societal fixes are the key.
Mitigating climate change requires both personal and societal changes. Without both, we probably won't see the reductions we need to see to minimize the long run costs to the world economy.

The thing with minimizing air travel, meat consumption, and so on, is that they're good barometers for how likely someone is to do other things, and possibly to support societal changes in general.

 

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