Mustachian GPS Device?

[RusticBohemian]

Hey guys.

I travel a lot on the cheap, and frequently find myself wandering around cities I've never been to or riding my bike to locations that I'm unclear on.

Sure, you might say suck it up and ask for directions, but I'm tired of doing that. I'd like a mustachian GPS.

I don't have a cell phone, which is how most people seem to access GPS maps for directions these days. I just don't like phones that much, and I can't justify the recurring expense of a monthly plan.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know of a good quality GPS device that could be used to access something like google maps and give me walking or biking directions to locations, sans monthly fee.

I don't want something huge and bulky, like you find in a car GPS, or those crappy hiking GPS ones with monochrome screens and ambiguous squiggly lines.

So, any suggestions?

Thanks.

[DC]

You said you don't want a cellphone but I'm going to present my case in favour of smartphones anyway:)
With a smartphone you can have GPS without an expensive monthly data plan to have GPS. Personally I have a prepaid service for phone calls and SMS (I don't use them much) but use a smartphone for the free GPS (through Google Maps and NDrive, both free), MP3 player, internet browser, apps, etc. I use it for these services waaay more than calls and SMS and I get wifi wherever I can on malls, at the college (both free) and at home.
The smartphone is a low cost one (HTC Explorer) with low processing power but perfect for my needs and it was very cheap.
You can have a smartphone without a provider 'attached' and use it for everything else except phone calls and messages, think of it as a fancy GPS with lots of extras:)

[arebelspy]

With a smartphone you can have GPS without an expensive monthly data plan to have GPS.

GPSes have no monthly plans, they're totally free.

[Mike Key]

With a smartphone you can have GPS without an expensive monthly data plan to have GPS.

GPSes have no monthly plans, they're totally free.

You mean, minus the initial purchase cost. :p

[arebelspy]

With a smartphone you can have GPS without an expensive monthly data plan to have GPS.

GPSes have no monthly plans, they're totally free.

You mean, minus the initial purchase cost. :p

Right, I was merely correcting the incorrect statement about their monthly costs. They have none.

Now that you mention it though, a free GPS isn't too uncommon nowadays. As more people use their phones, old standalone GPS units sit unused on shelves and in drawers.

You may find a friend willing to give you one. I've seen people giving them away free on freecycle, for example.

The truly Mustachian one is the recycled one, whether free or cheap (from Craigslist, perhaps).

[RusticBohemian]

Hey, DC.

I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

I have an Ipod which can connect via wifi and use google maps for GPS directions when there's an internet connection.

The problem is that I'm usually nowhere near a wifi connection when I need the GPS.

So you're saying that your smart phone's free GPS access works even when there's no wifi access?

So essentially by buying the phone the company is giving you free data access? I was under the impression that this was an extra you had to pay for.

And the internet browser too? This is free without a data plan?

So, for instance, if I got an HTC explorer I could proceed to not sign up for anything and I'm somehow entitled to internet access to use a web browser and google maps?

That sounds like a good deal to me.

You said you don't want a cellphone but I'm going to present my case in favour of smartphones anyway:)
With a smartphone you can have GPS without an expensive monthly data plan to have GPS. Personally I have a prepaid service for phone calls and SMS (I don't use them much) but use a smartphone for the free GPS (through Google Maps and NDrive, both free), MP3 player, internet browser, apps, etc. I use it for these services waaay more than calls and SMS and I get wifi wherever I can on malls, at the college (both free) and at home.
The smartphone is a low cost one (HTC Explorer) with low processing power but perfect for my needs and it was very cheap.
You can have a smartphone without a provider 'attached' and use it for everything else except phone calls and messages, think of it as a fancy GPS with lots of extras:)

[Mike Key]

So you're saying that your smart phone's free GPS access works even when there's no wifi access?

So essentially by buying the phone the company is giving you free data access? I was under the impression that this was an extra you had to pay for.

And the internet browser too? This is free without a data plan?

So, for instance, if I got an HTC explorer I could proceed to not sign up for anything and I'm somehow entitled to internet access to use a web browser and google maps?

That sounds like a good deal to me.

No your understanding of how GPS works is completely wrong. The Apple iPod touch uses the ip addresses of nearby wifi-signals to help approximate your location. It's not the same as GPS.

So when you have a phone with GPS, it asks for your postion by measuring your distance from 3 cell phone towers in connection with the GPS network to create an accurate picture of your location.


Some phones come with a navigation program preloaded, and the program can have preloaded maps. Others though, like Google Maps, DO NOT HAVE PRELOADED MAPS. Thus a data connection is still required because every time you move on the map, the phone needs to download part of the map image.


arebelspy is correct that the best option is to get a used GPS device. The maps are preloaded, and thus there is only ever a one time cost, unless you can get one for free.


If you really want to tackle this the Mustachian way, get a sense of direction and learn to read maps. :)

[DC]

With a smartphone you can have GPS without an expensive monthly data plan to have GPS.

GPSes have no monthly plans, they're totally free.

I know but from what I understood from RusticBohemian's first post, I think he thought they had a cost.

Hey, DC.
I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.
I have an Ipod which can connect via wifi and use google maps for GPS directions when there's an internet connection.
The problem is that I'm usually nowhere near a wifi connection when I need the GPS.

Sorry I wasn't clear. Your iPod is different from most smartphones. Smartphones with GPS don't need an internet connection to pinpoint your location, they do it by triangulation of your position just as Mike Key explained so you don't need a data plan for it, it's free.

So you're saying that your smart phone's free GPS access works even when there's no wifi access?

Exactly. Just turn on the app and wait a few minutes to connect.

So essentially by buying the phone the company is giving you free data access? I was under the impression that this was an extra you had to pay for.
And the internet browser too? This is free without a data plan?
So, for instance, if I got an HTC explorer I could proceed to not sign up for anything and I'm somehow entitled to internet access to use a web browser and google maps?
That sounds like a good deal to me.

I think this is where I wasn't clear, sorry. GPS is taken cared off, it's free if you use apps with preloaded maps.
Internet is another matter. I avoid paying for a data plan by using free wi-fi connections whenever and wherever I can. All public buildings in my city have free wi-fi, my university also has it, some stores and when I go to some friends place I ask them to use their wi-fi connection if they have it.
And since you can use smartphones without a SIM card (at least the ones I had allow it), you can use it for GPS, web browsing, apps, etc. without having to pay a company for any kind of service.

[Ramses]

This is a no-brainer

[The Money Monk]

This is a no-brainer

This is funny, because when I saw the thread topic (mustachian GPS device) I thought for sure the post was going to be about using maps instead of electronics.

[Bakari]

I don't want something huge and bulky, like you find in a car GPS,

The smaller auto GPS units are about the same size as a smartphone.

This is a no-brainer

This is funny, because when I saw the thread topic (mustachian GPS device) I thought for sure the post was going to be about using maps instead of electronics.

Street maps tend to run something like $10 at gas stations.  Wander to 4 or 5 new places, and a CraigsList GPS is cheaper than paper maps.



I put off buying GPS for several years, even though my job has me driving to new locations within a 225 square mile area all the time. I finally gave in when I found a Garmin Nuvi on sale for under $100, which included lifetime real-time traffic updates for no extra charge and no subscription fees (GPS itself is free, but most charge extra for live traffic).
Live traffic is really nice for avoiding traffic jams, which in turn helps me maximize my fuel mileage and minimize time on the road.

[CG]

GPS is taken care of, it's free if you use apps with preloaded maps.
Internet is another matter. I avoid paying for a data plan by using free wi-fi connections whenever and wherever I can. All public buildings in my city have free wi-fi, my university also has it, some stores and when I go to some friends place I ask them to use their wi-fi connection if they have it.
And since you can use smartphones without a SIM card (at least the ones I had allow it), you can use it for GPS, web browsing, apps, etc. without having to pay a company for any kind of service.

I'm resurrecting this thread because it comes closest to answering what I was about to post as a query on the 'Ask a Mustachian' forum.

However, I'm addressing specifically UK and Australian Mustachians. I don't have and have no need for a mobile (cell) phone of any description in my usual life (Melbourne, Australia). But I shall be in the UK for 3 weeks in July/August (NOT for the Olympics), half of the time in an unfamiliar city and the rest with my sister who has no internet (or even computer!).

GPS for use in the unfamiliar city would be useful, but I'd like a mobile device that would enable me to access the web, check emails etc. occasionally, and also make just a very few phone calls to my sister about arrival times etc. What would be the most economical way to do this, and should I buy the smart phone (or whatever) on arrival in the UK or in Australia before departure?

I don't envisage continuing to use it after my return. Not interested in the fact that 'everyone' has one, as I've been entirely happy without one up till now. The unfamiliar city has a major university, so I imagine there would be plenty of wi-fi places in colleges (such as the one where I'll be staying) and cafes. But what about phone calls? Or should I just do those from a phone box with coins?

[Daley]

I'm resurrecting this thread because it comes closest to answering what I was about to post as a query on the 'Ask a Mustachian' forum.

I am neither Australian or British, but I think I can help you on this front. A smartphone is going to be your best option on this front, specifically an unlocked, quad-band GSM world phone, though going from Australia to the UK, you'd probably be fine with any unlocked GSM 900/1800 device as you really only run into the GSM 850/1900 frequencies in the Americas.

An Android device with GPS and WiFi will be the best choice, preferably used, again definitely unlocked allowing for any carrier's SIM card to work in the phone. A good, cheap entry level phone that you could probably pick up cheap used or refurbished on Ebay or something would be the LG GT540 Optimus. It's a good entry-level Android phone that officially runs Android 2.1 and unofficially CyanogenMod 6/7 (Android 2.2, 2.3) through custom ROMs, and should hopefully be available for well under $100AUD if you can find it used/refurbished. If you can't find an Optimus, just look around for a good, cheap, used Android phone with GPS support and WiFi, carrier unlocked, and GSM based. Of course, you can also set the device up as a tethered modem or WiFi hotspot as well for your laptop, but you'll want to ensure you're running at least Android 2.2. Here's a couple resources for researching handset quality and reliability for GSM handsets. Just be sure to do a handset wipe before using it for personal stuff.

This would give you your navigation, your basic "secure" e-mail/internet access, and your telephone service.

As for carriers, obviously prepaid and just buy a SIM. I haven't investigated prepaid carriers for your part of the world or for the UK, but I do know that there's a fair number of options in the UK to choose from. Obviously you'll want someone that has a decent rate on data and minutes without spending too much and having an unused balance for when you leave. As for data, I figure if you're going to be doing any moderate surfing, budget between 1-2GB of data, and if you use your laptop with it, use the Opera browser with their "Opera Turbo" data compression proxy and turn off image downloading in the browser if you want to get the most out of your data. Going this route should probably be the most economical route for you. And of course, buying the handset used, you can probably turn back around and resell it once you get back for nearly the same price.

Hope this helps!

[sol]

If you opt for an Android phone, be aware that many rooted Android devices, especially those using cm7, have crappy GPS support.  I'd keep it stock.

On the plus side, google just recently unveiled offline google maps support, so you should be able to use free navigation without needing a data connection, which makes prepaid data-limited Android phones an even better deal.

[CG]

Thank you, Sol and I. P. Daley. I won't be taking a laptop with me so that simplifies the choice.

Just a couple of ignoramus queries:

How is a 'handset wipe' done?

Sol, when you say Google have just released offline Google maps support, would that be available only on new phones, and not accessible on an older secondhand phone? It occurs to me that Google maps would suit me fine for the environments I shall be in. GPS is perhaps overkill.

[sol]

Sol, when you say Google have just released offline Google maps support, would that be available only on new phones, and not accessible on an older secondhand phone?

Engadget reports that offline google maps will be supported on all devices running Android 2.2 and up, which means you'd have to go all the way back to Eclair to lose support.  Froyo, Gingerbread, Honeycomb, and the new ICS are all good to go. 

I don't know of anyone even selling android phones that old anymore, but if you do happen to have an ancient one that you like, chances are good you can update it to a newer version.

[CG]

Update & more queries but not really about GPS, so perhaps this should be in a different thread.

Thanks to your recommendation, I. P. Daley, I found a refurbished LG GT540 Optimus unlocked on eBay. While waiting for it to be delivered I've been reading around to see what to do in the way of setting it up before I leave,

I know I shall wish to get rid of ads and remove/freeze unwanted features (I don't use either Facebook or Twitter, for example). So I shall need to 'root' it. Many of the 'how to' pages I found by Googling seem to be rather old (as you would expect with a phone of this generation). The 2 main methods I found mentioned are z4root and Universal Androot. Is anyone able to advise on their current availability and suitability for this particular phone?

This one is still 1.6 Should rooting be done before or after upgrading to 2.1? Upgrading beyond the officially supported 2.1 is probably beyond my technical competence anyway, even though it seems I'd need 2.2 to access offline Google maps (thanks, for that information, Sol). And that was part of the rationale for getting a smartphone anyway! But the problem is that I'm virtually technically illiterate so just looking at the instructions for those custom ROMs is scary. After all, this is my first mobile phone of any description. What (besides Google maps) will I miss if I don't even upgrade from 1.6 to 2.1?

Finally, do I need a web connection on the phone itself to root and/or upgrade, or will they work if the phone is connected by USB to my intenet-connected laptop which does not have a wireless modem, but does have Bluetooth (which I've never used).

Thank you in advance for your patience, especially as I have a sneaking feeling that for me even to buy a mobile phone for such a wimpy reason is being anti-Mustachian, so I have no business to be asking for help here in these matters.

[arebelspy]

Finally, do I need a web connection on the phone itself to root and/or upgrade, or will they work if the phone is connected by USB to my intenet-connected laptop which does not have a wireless modem, but does have Bluetooth (which I've never used).

USB is the most common way to root a device.

[Daley]

Sorry for not responding sooner.

How is a 'handset wipe' done?

Here's the important bits on the GT540 for resetting: http://www.howtoreset.com/LG_Units/Optimus_GT540_Hard_Reset_Soft_Reset.html
Follow the hard reset instructions. A couple Android handsets (like the Galaxy S, apparently) will lose their carrier unlocking after a hard reset, but from what the Internet says you should be fine, and it should stay unlocked (in case you're unsure).

I know I shall wish to get rid of ads and remove/freeze unwanted features (I don't use either Facebook or Twitter, for example). So I shall need to 'root' it. Many of the 'how to' pages I found by Googling seem to be rather old (as you would expect with a phone of this generation). The 2 main methods I found mentioned are z4root and Universal Androot. Is anyone able to advise on their current availability and suitability for this particular phone?

This one is still 1.6 Should rooting be done before or after upgrading to 2.1? Upgrading beyond the officially supported 2.1 is probably beyond my technical competence anyway, even though it seems I'd need 2.2 to access offline Google maps (thanks, for that information, Sol). And that was part of the rationale for getting a smartphone anyway! But the problem is that I'm virtually technically illiterate so just looking at the instructions for those custom ROMs is scary. After all, this is my first mobile phone of any description. What (besides Google maps) will I miss if I don't even upgrade from 1.6 to 2.1?

Finally, do I need a web connection on the phone itself to root and/or upgrade, or will they work if the phone is connected by USB to my intenet-connected laptop which does not have a wireless modem, but does have Bluetooth (which I've never used).

First, read my thoughts on rooting my Intercept along with this post from Android Central. The Intercept post won't be useful to you on the actual rooting process or much on what to do afterward, but there are some relevant questions and ideas to your situation. That said...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?s=1a234cb9a739413915d13cc8605d5205&f=773
http://forum.sdx-developers.com/#c25
Your best resources for rooting and flashing custom ROMs if desired. Most instructions will be from upgrading/rooting 1.6 (Donut), and most custom ROMs like the CM6 spin should be pre-rooted both for your horror and convenience. Given your relative neophyte status though, I might recommend instead (if it wasn't likely clear already) to stay stock and just deal with the ads and lack of offline Google Maps as offline Google Maps is mostly what you'll lose. That and WiFi hotspot/tethering. Also, having the useless and unwanted apps won't kill you, either. Remember, this was supposed to be a temporary out of country holiday phone with GPS and access to your e-mail. Don't spend more time on tweaking this thing than necessary unless you plan on keeping it or just want to learn how to fiddle with this crap.

The easiest way to upgrade to the official 2.1 Eclair update is to just get it on the internet, which will just involve turning on the WiFi connection and connecting it to your network. It should almost immediately pester you about a firmware update. If it doesn't, just go to the dial screen while online and enter:

Code: [Select]

*#*#2432546#*#*That's T9 for *#*#CHECKIN#*#* if you're curious. It should force a firmware and app upgrade notice to 2.1.

Before you leave, you should borrow a friend's SIM card and test the phone though. It'd stink if you got all the way to your destination with this thing and find it doesn't work.

Thank you in advance for your patience, especially as I have a sneaking feeling that for me even to buy a mobile phone for such a wimpy reason is being anti-Mustachian, so I have no business to be asking for help here in these matters.

No worries, and I'd hardly call it anti-Mustachian if you turn around and re-sell the thing after you get back or suddenly find that you might actually use it as just a tiny handheld computer around the house to keep the main computer off or in sleep mode more often, especially if you got a good deal on the thing. My Intercept doubles as an HTPC remote, a forum reader, weather updater, e-mail checker, instant messenger, and none of these functions requires anything beyond the WiFi access. You could even technically convert it into a VoIP handset if you wanted. Just some thoughts.

Finally, have a quick list of the most useful apps outside of Google Maps that you should consider installing for this phone:
K9 Mail (excellent email client)
Dolphin Mini (light web browser with compression)
Android Lost (helps locate a lost/stolen phone)
Flashlight (just that... turns your phone into a cheap, terrible torch by turning the screen white and setting brightness to 100%)

They should all be ad free. Good luck, hope this helps!

[CG]

Wow! I. P. Daley, many many thankyous for your instant response. This alone has lifted a cloud of anxiety from my mind:
ROOTING YOUR ANDROID PHONE IS STUPID!
together with Jerry Hildenbrand's article to the same effect.

I'm now remembering that I did see in a online video somewhere about this phone that I can move 'short-cuts' from the home page down into a 'slot' called Remove (which doesn't uninstall them but is just like removing a short-cut from the desktop on a PC). That's really all I need: I just want them out of sight.

Now about that upgrade from 1.6 to 2.1. Is even that worth doing? And I take it that if your CHECKIN solution works I don't need to do that business of going to the LG website and downloading the LG Mobile Support Tool and then the USB driver before the upgrade to 2.1?

And lastly, the phone I've bought is described by the (commercial) vendor as "Manufacturer refurbished: An item that has been professionally restored to working order by a manufacturer or manufacturer-approved seller or retailer. This means the product has been inspected, cleaned, and repaired to meet manufacturer specifications and is in excellent condition." Does that perhaps mean I can safely skip the 'handset wipe' too?

That's all for now. And thanks too for the suggestion about borrowing a friend's SIM to test it before I leave. I'm so stupid I might not have thought of that.

[arebelspy]

I wouldn't own an android device that wasn't rooted, but to each his own.

[Daley]

Now about that upgrade from 1.6 to 2.1. Is even that worth doing? And I take it that if your CHECKIN solution works I don't need to do that business of going to the LG website and downloading the LG Mobile Support Tool and then the USB driver before the upgrade to 2.1?

Yes it is and yes it should avoid that hinky mess.

And lastly, the phone I've bought is described by the (commercial) vendor as "Manufacturer refurbished: An item that has been professionally restored to working order by a manufacturer or manufacturer-approved seller or retailer. This means the product has been inspected, cleaned, and repaired to meet manufacturer specifications and is in excellent condition." Does that perhaps mean I can safely skip the 'handset wipe' too?

Never trust a refurbisher to wipe data. I've seen so many "refurbished" devices over the years with other people's data it isn't funny. Just do it, it won't take but a few minutes anyway and it's good to learn how to do it.

I also forgot to mention Zeam Launcher as an alternative homescreen yesterday as it's leaner and lighter than the default typically. YMMV. Fortunately, it's easy to switch back if needed.

I wouldn't own an android device that wasn't rooted, but to each his own.

I'm the same way, but having access to root and leaving it rooted are two different things. Leaving it rooted is a massive security risk in the same way running Windows 9x was a security risk. Don't run your OS in administrator/root mode by default if you can help it. Also, some people just aren't capable of technical feats, so it's just better to not have them do which they do not understand. Que sera.

[CG]

Apologies for my delayed reply, but I'm still adjusting to the steepness of the learning curve.

1. When the phone arrived it had Vodafone splashed all over it and I had to buy a SIM card before I could be sure it wasn't locked to V. (Didn't know anyone I could borrow one from.) Not so good.

2. Could buy an Amaysim SIM (once I found a retailer) for only $2. As they have the best-rated pay-as-you-go plan, I may even hitch up to that for learning purposes before I leave for UK. Good.

3. Because I had no connection yet (and no handy near-by Wi-Fi spot) I couldn't get anywhere using your CHECKIN code, except a recorded message form Amaysim. Not so good.

4. But when I used the LG online support update (with some trepidation) it told me that the phone is already updated to 2.1-update 1. If I had known then how to check that on the phone itself (found it in the settings menu eventually) I needn't have bothered. Good.

5. Yes, I did do a 'factory reset' (which I think is the same as a 'handset wipe'?) before any of the above. Now I'm setting up my preferences and learning to use fingernails rather than the whole finger-pad when making selections and how not to 'over-shoot' when scrolling a screen.

6. Thank you very much for the list of recommended apps. I'll explore those when I have established network connection.

Above all, thank you for being such an immediate and helpful resource. I like your ideas about continuing to use it minimally (after the holiday, that is) instead of switching on the computer, but can't see how I could accomplish that without wi-fi at home.

[Daley]

Above all, thank you for being such an immediate and helpful resource. I like your ideas about continuing to use it minimally (after the holiday, that is) instead of switching on the computer, but can't see how I could accomplish that without wi-fi at home.

Don't sweat the Vodafone branding. Just because a handset is unlocked doesn't mean it makes the carrier branding disappear.

Great to hear that it's already current on the firmware, that saved a lot of steps and hassles for you.

Yeah, factory reset and handset wipe can be interchangeable terms. Important thing is that it got done.

The GT540 has a resistive touchscreen, so you should technically be able to use anything to interact with it. If you think having a stylus would help with some of the finer interactions outside of fat fingering the dialpad (not to imply you may be fat, it's just an expression)... if you've got a chunk of wooden doweling? You can cut it down to size, stick it in a pencil sharpener, take off the point with the finer side of a nail file and smooth the tip rubbing it hard against a solid metal surface until the surface looks shiny and use it for a dedicated stylus. There's also pen caps and anything else you might have around that isn't sharp and pointy made ideally out of softer wood, rubber or plastic. Most all phones have a wrist strap loop, you can attach your stylus with that and a bit of fishing line or something so you don't lose it.

Not having WiFi at home does pose a problem to utilizing it cheaply/freely while there. For the sake of not completely threadjacking the topic, if you want to PM me the details on your home internet connection, I might be able to make some frugal suggestions from there, and I'd also suggest giving a look at the communications guide. That said though, don't feel obligated to spend more money on setups that have already worked well for you in the past and you have no real desire to change.

Finally, no worries. It's what I do. :)