Author Topic: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!  (Read 18431 times)

tooqk4u22

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WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« on: August 26, 2015, 07:23:14 AM »
I hit my 4% number two weeks ago and was going to give notice at the end of the month but now my 4% SWR is 4.3% and instead of 25 years of expenses I only have 23 (fortunately that is better than Monday morning).

This sucks, everything I have been working towards is a fallacy.....If I would have stopped a month ago I would be fine per the triniy study but now I am below it.

I can't take it, how can I live like this.


Bearded Man

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 07:39:37 AM »
I think it is risky to retire off 25 years savings alone. I think one should have a buffer and alternate source of income, such as a rental or two. I do, and this is the main part of my FIRE strategy. Already FI off rental income, by a good margin, however; I'm building enough of an index fund nest egg to be able to live off either source of income should things go wrong, or have extra money for serious health issues and other life events.

Another Reader

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2015, 07:48:00 AM »
You are on the wrong forum.  This place is full of overly optimistic 25-30 year-olds that have time to make changes if things go south.  Try early-retirement.org.  It's full of people your age with your responsibilities trying to make similar decisions.

If I depended on paper assets to fund a retirement over 30 years, there is no way I would use 4 percent.  The maximum I would use is 3 percent, with the idea that a lot of the funding for my expenses would come from dividend yield.  Even Kitces et al are now saying the 4 percent rule is untenable for long retirements.

smiller257

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2015, 07:49:20 AM »
I think you could retire now. Lots of studies I've seen says that you could up to 5% during good years and 3-4% in bad years of the market and have a very good chance (over 90%) of not outlasting the market. Markets correct about every 18 months anyways, ours is overdue (last correction was in 2011).

I say go with your plan, don't free out. I wrote a blog about this a few days ago after getting lots of questions about this: http://www.weretiredearly.com/Blog/2015/08/24/market-correction-dont-freak-out/

patrickza

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2015, 08:08:04 AM »
I think you guys never heard the sarcasm in his post!

Baron235

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2015, 08:15:14 AM »
I think you guys never heard the sarcasm in his post!

Sarcasm or a troll. 

2Birds1Stone

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 08:19:05 AM »
I think you guys never heard the sarcasm in his post!

100%

tooqk4u22

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 08:25:29 AM »
Sarcasm....for sure.  But nonetheless there is no doubt there are people having those thoughts this week.  A correction (10%) shouldn't make or break or change your plans, they are fairly normal historically, just not in the last several years. 

I just thought it would be a nice satirical post to reinforce that flexibility is key......well and have a bit of fun too. 

And just for full disclosure I have been on record through numerous posts that 3% SWR in the current environment (well past environment) makes more sense as I am a very big believer in regression to the mean - whether it be interest rates, PE, CAPE, divi yields, inflation, etc).  So my thesis is that my 3% is likely to become my 4% in a more normal (mean) market.

I am not saying that is right or smart or 4% is wrong....just that it is the right number for me and my tolerance. I also know I could make 4% work if I really wanted to.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 08:28:30 AM by tooqk4u22 »

fattest_foot

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 09:45:47 AM »
I think you could retire now. Lots of studies I've seen says that you could up to 5% during good years and 3-4% in bad years of the market and have a very good chance (over 90%) of not outlasting the market. Markets correct about every 18 months anyways, ours is overdue (last correction was in 2011).

I say go with your plan, don't free out. I wrote a blog about this a few days ago after getting lots of questions about this: http://www.weretiredearly.com/Blog/2015/08/24/market-correction-dont-freak-out/

I think this is probably the way I will go. 4% is probably "too much" for a long term retirement, in my opinion. As long as you adjust in down years, you're probably ok with retiring at a planned 5% rate.

I've run the numbers enough and $800k with a $40k draw pretty much won't fail once supplemented by social security.

Jack

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 10:01:06 AM »
I think you could retire now. Lots of studies I've seen says that you could up to 5% during good years and 3-4% in bad years of the market and have a very good chance (over 90%) of not outlasting the market. Markets correct about every 18 months anyways, ours is overdue (last correction was in 2011).

I say go with your plan, don't free out. I wrote a blog about this a few days ago after getting lots of questions about this: http://www.weretiredearly.com/Blog/2015/08/24/market-correction-dont-freak-out/

I think this is probably the way I will go. 4% is probably "too much" for a long term retirement, in my opinion. As long as you adjust in down years, you're probably ok with retiring at a planned 5% rate.

I've run the numbers enough and $800k with a $40k draw pretty much won't fail once supplemented by social security.

The thing to remember about the Trinity study is that it assumes a "normal" retirement age of 65 and thus a 15-30-year time horizon, and with (I think) a "normal" retiree-stage asset allocation (i.e., a lot of bonds). Neither of those assumptions holds true for a Mustachian, who would have a very long 40-50-year time horizon and, as a consequence, would rely less on capital preservation via bonds and more on growth via stocks, leading to a more aggressive asset allocation. For that reason, the "4% SWR" is not necessarily the correct number.

Eric

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 10:26:14 AM »
I think you could retire now. Lots of studies I've seen says that you could up to 5% during good years and 3-4% in bad years of the market and have a very good chance (over 90%) of not outlasting the market. Markets correct about every 18 months anyways, ours is overdue (last correction was in 2011).

I say go with your plan, don't free out. I wrote a blog about this a few days ago after getting lots of questions about this: http://www.weretiredearly.com/Blog/2015/08/24/market-correction-dont-freak-out/

I think this is probably the way I will go. 4% is probably "too much" for a long term retirement, in my opinion. As long as you adjust in down years, you're probably ok with retiring at a planned 5% rate.

I've run the numbers enough and $800k with a $40k draw pretty much won't fail once supplemented by social security.

The thing to remember about the Trinity study is that it assumes a "normal" retirement age of 65 and thus a 15-30-year time horizon, and with (I think) a "normal" retiree-stage asset allocation (i.e., a lot of bonds). Neither of those assumptions holds true for a Mustachian, who would have a very long 40-50-year time horizon and, as a consequence, would rely less on capital preservation via bonds and more on growth via stocks, leading to a more aggressive asset allocation. For that reason, the "4% SWR" is not necessarily the correct number.

The trinity study covers the full range of asset allocations.  While the longest time period they cover is 30 years, we can use tools like www.cFIREsim.com to see that at the end of those 30 years most portfolios have a ridiculous amount of money.  Not every portfolio that survived 30 will survive 50, but the vast majority will and will also have vast riches.

And of course those super high success rates can be boosted even higher by just a little flexibility.  IMO, the extended length of time is less of a risk than the chance for needing greater spending, probably based on health.

fa

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2015, 10:42:51 AM »
Actually, OP brings up a very good point.  4% SWR of what?  If we have a 50% bear market, that "safe" 4% just became 8% with the current savings.  So does that then double the time you need to save?   What about people who retired recently on 4% SWR?  Do they go back to work?  Bag the entire retirement plan for a decade?  These are serious questions and deserve a serious answer.

Anybody considering early retirement better think through these issues thoroughly.  You cannot anticipate everything, but severe bear markets are a fairly routine part of the stock market.  My strategy is to keep sufficient money in cash instruments to cover 4 years of a bear market at my current level of expenses.  My plan would be to not have to sell stock during such a market downturn.

Firecalc and other sites show what happens in almost any scenario, but certainly what happens in the very early portion of retirement has the most impact.  We are getting a really good reminder of that right now.

Eric

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2015, 11:10:35 AM »
Actually, OP brings up a very good point.  4% SWR of what?  If we have a 50% bear market, that "safe" 4% just became 8% with the current savings.  So does that then double the time you need to save?   What about people who retired recently on 4% SWR?  Do they go back to work?  Bag the entire retirement plan for a decade?  These are serious questions and deserve a serious answer.

Previous discussion of this topic on this informative thread:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/firecalc-and-cfiresim-both-lie/

Anybody considering early retirement better think through these issues thoroughly.  You cannot anticipate everything, but severe bear markets are a fairly routine part of the stock market.  My strategy is to keep sufficient money in cash instruments to cover 4 years of a bear market at my current level of expenses.  My plan would be to not have to sell stock during such a market downturn.

This will generally decrease your success rate:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/research-reveals-cash-reserve-strategies-dont-work-unless-youre-a-good-market-timer/

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2015, 12:11:51 PM »
Yes it is a good point the OP does bring up (even though it is satirical).

The point is its not just about getting to 4% or whatever your "sleep at night" number is. Its also about having a withdrawal strategy. I.e if you got to 4% but riding the stock market and you have nothing in bonds, cash, rental or pension income.. Well then I'd be worried too!

But if like us you have 7 years of cash and bonds, plus rental income, plus some pensions.. (OK we are a bit overkill) then in our case the stock market could go to zero and we'd still make it.

Eric

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2015, 12:26:57 PM »
But if like us you have 7 years of cash and bonds, plus rental income, plus some pensions.. (OK we are a bit overkill) then in our case the stock market could go to zero and we'd still make it.

I've got news for you Frank -- if the stock market goes to zero, then none of the rest of that is going to be worth anything either.  The USD would cease to exist.

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2015, 01:50:19 PM »
But if like us you have 7 years of cash and bonds, plus rental income, plus some pensions.. (OK we are a bit overkill) then in our case the stock market could go to zero and we'd still make it.

I've got news for you Frank -- if the stock market goes to zero, then none of the rest of that is going to be worth anything either.  The USD would cease to exist.

I was being Metaphorical"..:)

happy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2015, 04:12:33 AM »


Sarcasm or a troll.

Tookq4u22 a troll?  Funny.

Congrats Took on reaching 4%, and now uncongrats?

tooqk4u22

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2015, 06:59:46 AM »


Sarcasm or a troll.

Tookq4u22 a troll?  Funny.

Congrats Took on reaching 4%, and now uncongrats?

Uh oh....market was up yesterday and going up today.....maybe I am back!   Shit, now I have to change the title to WTF - I CAN retire now!

Haha. 

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2015, 11:30:05 AM »
You must retire with precisely 25 times annual expenses, to the PENNY!  No rounding@!  Otherwise its cheating.

marty998

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2015, 03:39:12 PM »
And you must withdraw and spend exactly 4% of that initial starting balance every year regardless of whether you need it or not!

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2015, 07:16:03 PM »
And you must withdraw and spend exactly 4% of that initial starting balance every year regardless of whether you need it or not!

Ahh shoot.. that's like 3 times what we spent last year...:)

flyingaway

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2015, 09:24:09 AM »
I have some problem with the many year cash camp. If you keep many years of cash, you miss good return when the market is going up. You do avoid the problems when the market is going down. This is a opportunity loss.

However, for those who do not keep any cash and invest all money, the (cash part) return goes up when the market is going up. It might just return to its original position when the market goes down.

I did not do any comparison and don't know which strategy is better. Maybe the final results would be similar.

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2015, 11:42:20 AM »
I have some problem with the many year cash camp. If you keep many years of cash, you miss good return when the market is going up. You do avoid the problems when the market is going down. This is a opportunity loss.

However, for those who do not keep any cash and invest all money, the (cash part) return goes up when the market is going up. It might just return to its original position when the market goes down.

I did not do any comparison and don't know which strategy is better. Maybe the final results would be similar.

You got to have some stability otherwise you won't sleep at night. We currently have about 1.5 years of cash.

patrickza

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2015, 04:41:29 PM »
I have some problem with the many year cash camp. If you keep many years of cash, you miss good return when the market is going up. You do avoid the problems when the market is going down. This is a opportunity loss.

However, for those who do not keep any cash and invest all money, the (cash part) return goes up when the market is going up. It might just return to its original position when the market goes down.

I did not do any comparison and don't know which strategy is better. Maybe the final results would be similar.

You got to have some stability otherwise you won't sleep at night. We currently have about 1.5 years of cash.
Wouldn't your dividend stream provide you with enough cash to last some time?

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2015, 04:47:13 PM »
Sure, unless you set your investments to automatically re-invest the dividend like I do.

Saves having to "manage" the income stream that way

Eric

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2015, 04:13:42 PM »
I have some problem with the many year cash camp. If you keep many years of cash, you miss good return when the market is going up. You do avoid the problems when the market is going down. This is a opportunity loss.

However, for those who do not keep any cash and invest all money, the (cash part) return goes up when the market is going up. It might just return to its original position when the market goes down.

I did not do any comparison and don't know which strategy is better. Maybe the final results would be similar.

Michael Kitces agrees with you:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/research-reveals-cash-reserve-strategies-dont-work-unless-youre-a-good-market-timer/

NoNonsenseLandlord

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2015, 06:41:37 AM »
Odds are, if you are cutting it that close, you are not financially ready to retire.

Indexmantra

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2015, 12:53:52 PM »
I hit my 4% number two weeks ago and was going to give notice at the end of the month but now my 4% SWR is 4.3% and instead of 25 years of expenses I only have 23 (fortunately that is better than Monday morning).

This sucks, everything I have been working towards is a fallacy.....If I would have stopped a month ago I would be fine per the triniy study but now I am below it.

I can't take it, how can I live like this.

Thanks for the good laugh

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2015, 02:50:31 PM »
Wow so when the market dipped I guess I was still getting dividends

Now the market is still 3.5% down, my NW is now higher that its ever been.

So I guess we CAN retire now..:)

G-dog

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2015, 07:48:14 PM »
Wow so when the market dipped I guess I was still getting dividends

Now the market is still 3.5% down, my NW is now higher that its ever been.

So I guess we CAN retire now..:)

You are such a tease with your retirement talk! Someday you will actually really retire...

Roland of Gilead

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2015, 08:25:12 PM »
I have no problem with the cash reserve strategy and I think the article is a bit misleading.

For one thing, just because you have a good bit of cash on hand, it doesn't mean you can't have it work a little bit for you.

Capital One was (still is?) offering $500 for depositing $50,000 for three months in an online account (4% annualized return) plus you earn 0.7% on the money deposited.

Plenty of other similar offers from online banks and brokerage houses.  You don't have to invest the money you deposit with a broker if they are going to give you $700 just for depositing XX amount.

Instead of 60% stocks 40% bonds, you might go 60% stocks 40% cash and end up with better returns, especially when 10 year Treasuries are paying 2%.  Or slightly higher in stocks, like 70% since the 30% you have in cash is very liquid.   Longer term bonds could easily lose 5% in a year while the cash will never lose (except to inflation, which eats away at a 2% bond with the same tenacity.)

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2015, 08:59:27 PM »
Wow so when the market dipped I guess I was still getting dividends

Now the market is still 3.5% down, my NW is now higher that its ever been.

So I guess we CAN retire now..:)

You are such a tease with your retirement talk! Someday you will actually really retire...

Hahaha.. Well look I can't give up my W2 hobby job until after Jan 1st cus that means I can get penalty free access to whatever 401k money I choose to roll into my current 401k plan.. Next year I will be 55 you see..;)

Jeremy E.

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2015, 09:11:20 PM »
Tldr, but just wanted to say I'll be using an average of a  4.5% withdrawal rate when I retire and I'm 99% sure I won't run out of money. But I think I must be weird in that I would rather be retired than work, as it seems most prefer working until they can have a 3% withdrawal rate, they must absolutely love their jobs.

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2015, 11:10:16 AM »
Tldr, but just wanted to say I'll be using an average of a  4.5% withdrawal rate when I retire and I'm 99% sure I won't run out of money. But I think I must be weird in that I would rather be retired than work, as it seems most prefer working until they can have a 3% withdrawal rate, they must absolutely love their jobs.

or fearful.. or didn't realize they were FI until they looked and ran some numbers.. I got my hands up for both of those..:)

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2015, 01:16:12 PM »
Tldr, but just wanted to say I'll be using an average of a  4.5% withdrawal rate when I retire and I'm 99% sure I won't run out of money. But I think I must be weird in that I would rather be retired than work, as it seems most prefer working until they can have a 3% withdrawal rate, they must absolutely love their jobs.
It's really familiarity and risk-aversion more than anything else. I'm probably the least institutionalized guy in my division and I still get nervous when I think about leaving... even though my side jobs are basically paying all my living expenses.

Mr. Green

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2015, 08:34:21 AM »
Tldr, but just wanted to say I'll be using an average of a  4.5% withdrawal rate when I retire and I'm 99% sure I won't run out of money. But I think I must be weird in that I would rather be retired than work, as it seems most prefer working until they can have a 3% withdrawal rate, they must absolutely love their jobs.
It's really familiarity and risk-aversion more than anything else. I'm probably the least institutionalized guy in my division and I still get nervous when I think about leaving... even though my side jobs are basically paying all my living expenses.
I think part of this is that, for most of us, our jobs become a part of our identity. So leaving your job means losing part of what has made you you, for better or worse. If we are the sum of our experiences then a 40 hour a week job equates to about a quarter of our identities. When we retire we're replacing that with blank space to fill, like that scene in the Matrix they're in the white space and can have anything. Some folks have become so used to having that space filled for them that the sudden ability to fill it with whatever they want is frightening because they've never exercised that muscle.

Exflyboy

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2015, 09:50:32 AM »
Tldr, but just wanted to say I'll be using an average of a  4.5% withdrawal rate when I retire and I'm 99% sure I won't run out of money. But I think I must be weird in that I would rather be retired than work, as it seems most prefer working until they can have a 3% withdrawal rate, they must absolutely love their jobs.
It's really familiarity and risk-aversion more than anything else. I'm probably the least institutionalized guy in my division and I still get nervous when I think about leaving... even though my side jobs are basically paying all my living expenses.
I think part of this is that, for most of us, our jobs become a part of our identity. So leaving your job means losing part of what has made you you, for better or worse. If we are the sum of our experiences then a 40 hour a week job equates to about a quarter of our identities. When we retire we're replacing that with blank space to fill, like that scene in the Matrix they're in the white space and can have anything. Some folks have become so used to having that space filled for them that the sudden ability to fill it with whatever they want is frightening because they've never exercised that muscle.

Exactly..:)

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2015, 11:21:02 AM »
I think part of this is that, for most of us, our jobs become a part of our identity. So leaving your job means losing part of what has made you you, for better or worse. If we are the sum of our experiences then a 40 hour a week job equates to about a quarter of our identities. When we retire we're replacing that with blank space to fill, like that scene in the Matrix they're in the white space and can have anything. Some folks have become so used to having that space filled for them that the sudden ability to fill it with whatever they want is frightening because they've never exercised that muscle.

Yes. This should be required reading for everyone heading toward FIRE...lest they become one of the "I'm bored in FIRE" contingent (they exist on this forum). Just leaving your job is not enough. Having a FULL life outsife of your job is very important.

Lnspilot

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2015, 11:29:22 AM »
That hits home.

This is exactly what I'm working on right now. My job has been so involving that it's left little time to pursue my interests, nonetheless keep doing the things I like to do. 

Gotta work on that before the RE part of FIRE :)

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2015, 12:28:35 PM »
I think part of this is that, for most of us, our jobs become a part of our identity. So leaving your job means losing part of what has made you you, for better or worse. If we are the sum of our experiences then a 40 hour a week job equates to about a quarter of our identities. When we retire we're replacing that with blank space to fill, like that scene in the Matrix they're in the white space and can have anything. Some folks have become so used to having that space filled for them that the sudden ability to fill it with whatever they want is frightening because they've never exercised that muscle.

Yes. This should be required reading for everyone heading toward FIRE...lest they become one of the "I'm bored in FIRE" contingent (they exist on this forum). Just leaving your job is not enough. Having a FULL life outsife of your job is very important.

I might be the exception to this, depending on how you define a full life. I think I strongly identified with my job, the value it added to society, or at least the company, puritanical hard work, type A personality, goal oriented, etc. My working life for the last 15 or so years has been go to work , come home, try to catch up on errands and tasks on the weekends. My social life dwindled, hobbies abandoned, etc. I've burned out several times in my working career, the last role really did it though. So, I found MMM a bit more than a year ago and started evaluating where I was financially, then set the goal to retire at 55yo, which I did this July.

And not an ExFlyBoy style retirement - real not working anymore retirement! As it happens, so far I am not bored, and am content not necessarily being really busy all the time. It could be too early to tell, maybe I am just still in a recovery phase ---- but I feel like I have a flyer life now (only doing what I want, when I want) than I did while working.

Maybe we are saying the same thing, just with different words - because I very much respect what ExFlyBoy has to say, but don't NOT retire just because you think you haven't established a full life outside of work.

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2015, 12:38:17 PM »
I volunteered at the free health clinics and see older doctors who keep volunteering because they are so tied into being a doctor. They don't even do it for the money anymore, they just don't know what else to do.

not that it isn't a worthwhile retirement activity... I'd probably join the peace corp or something and volunteer in FI for the first few years. Not that many volunteer groups need lab guys. They all seem to want people who work with patients (docs, nurses, etc). I kind of understand why, there aren't labs setup out in the middle of rural areas and without the lab equipment (outside of kit tests/manuals), I'm just a guy that stands around not knowing what else to do :D

I'm still waiting for the people (I think some talked about it a long time ago) to form a group of people to mentor MMM lifestyle in poorer areas, help them build up their own wealthy and help the area that way.

Reality.... I'm going to find a home, garden/homestead... and yell at the kids to get off my lawn. Or just travel the world and look like a bum. Instead of the $30k millionaires, I'll be the millionaire that lives on $30k and no one will be the wiser

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2015, 12:56:37 PM »
"I'll be the millionaire that lives on $30k and no one will be the wiser"

And it will be so, so good.

Cookie78

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2015, 01:05:29 PM »
"I'll be the millionaire that lives on $30k and no one will be the wiser"

And it will be so, so good.

:D
No kidding.

Really enjoying this thread lately.

I don't feel like my job is a huge part of my identity, but I still worry about lacking direction in FIRE. I am so goal driven and thrive on being productive and accomplishing meaningful things. I don't get that feeling of accomplishment very much in my career, but I do tons at home after work. I am still conscious that after I FIRE I may feel a lack of accomplishment day to day because there is more time. Either I will have to learn to deal with it or I will have to have ongoing projects to keep me busy. Or maybe a combination of the two. I'm looking forward to finding out what works. :D

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2015, 01:22:14 PM »
"I don't feel like my job is a huge part of my identity, but I still worry about lacking direction in FIRE. I am so goal driven and thrive on being productive and accomplishing meaningful things. I don't get that feeling of accomplishment very much in my career, but I do tons at home after work. I am still conscious that after I FIRE I may feel a lack of accomplishment day to day because there is more time. Either I will have to learn to deal with it or I will have to have ongoing projects to keep me busy. Or maybe a combination of the two. I'm looking forward to finding out what works. :D

Geeeez, you folks are my people.  Let's all meet up, be merry and revel in what's important in all of this.

:-D

Mr. Green

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2015, 01:42:50 PM »
I don't feel like my job is a huge part of my identity, but I still worry about lacking direction in FIRE. I am so goal driven and thrive on being productive and accomplishing meaningful things. I don't get that feeling of accomplishment very much in my career, but I do tons at home after work. I am still conscious that after I FIRE I may feel a lack of accomplishment day to day because there is more time. Either I will have to learn to deal with it or I will have to have ongoing projects to keep me busy. Or maybe a combination of the two. I'm looking forward to finding out what works. :D
I am also goal driven. For me FIRE is not about "doing nothing." It's about having complete control over what I fill the 25% of my identity that I have vacated due to terminating my employment. This is the part that really depends on the person and her personality. Ultimately I believe I will end up filling that time with a mix of leisure and, what I'll call, professional hobbies. That is, hobbies where I do something that ends up making money for the simple fact that I enjoy making money and creating things. I leave open the possibility that one or more of those hobbies could turn into a successful business but FIRE makes that totally discretionary so I never have to worry about a business taking more of a priority in my life than I want it to.

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2015, 01:56:30 PM »
"I don't feel like my job is a huge part of my identity, but I still worry about lacking direction in FIRE. I am so goal driven and thrive on being productive and accomplishing meaningful things. I don't get that feeling of accomplishment very much in my career, but I do tons at home after work. I am still conscious that after I FIRE I may feel a lack of accomplishment day to day because there is more time. Either I will have to learn to deal with it or I will have to have ongoing projects to keep me busy. Or maybe a combination of the two. I'm looking forward to finding out what works. :D

Geeeez, you folks are my people.  Let's all meet up, be merry and revel in what's important in all of this.

:-D
I picture organizing a Mustachian meetup much like herding cats. How do you schedule group activities with people who all want to go their own way?

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2015, 01:58:28 PM »
You don't.

I'm just a dreamer.

Cookie78

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2015, 02:11:13 PM »
I don't feel like my job is a huge part of my identity, but I still worry about lacking direction in FIRE. I am so goal driven and thrive on being productive and accomplishing meaningful things. I don't get that feeling of accomplishment very much in my career, but I do tons at home after work. I am still conscious that after I FIRE I may feel a lack of accomplishment day to day because there is more time. Either I will have to learn to deal with it or I will have to have ongoing projects to keep me busy. Or maybe a combination of the two. I'm looking forward to finding out what works. :D
I am also goal driven. For me FIRE is not about "doing nothing." It's about having complete control over what I fill the 25% of my identity that I have vacated due to terminating my employment. This is the part that really depends on the person and her personality. Ultimately I believe I will end up filling that time with a mix of leisure and, what I'll call, professional hobbies. That is, hobbies where I do something that ends up making money for the simple fact that I enjoy making money and creating things. I leave open the possibility that one or more of those hobbies could turn into a successful business but FIRE makes that totally discretionary so I never have to worry about a business taking more of a priority in my life than I want it to.

Absolutely agree! I have plenty of hobbies and I would enjoy the challenge of turning them into some casual income. I'm not sure how that'll work out, but it doesn't really matter.

I have SO many goals and dreams and directions I want to go that I'm sure I won't have a problem filling my time. I'm just conscious of it because of my constant need for achievement. It's not something I'm worried about, just something I'm aware of.

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Re: WTF - I Can't Retire Now!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2015, 02:02:24 PM »
I'm about 5 months from FIRE and think about what I want to do post-FIRE often.  Pre-FIRE I have started a side business that is 180 degrees from what I do for my main income (white collar and added small side blue collar/getting hands very dirt and callused).  I plan to continue to dabble in the side business post-FIRE, but Cookie78 reminded me of what else I have been doing.  That is, every time I have an idea of something I want to pursue post-FIRE I email that idea to myself with the heading - "Retirement - X" and then when I receive it I file it in a retirement email file.  I've been doing this for about 1 year and when I open that file I see pages of things I want to pursue - from writing books, to visiting certain National Parks, to working on organic farms, etc.  I was actually thinking about putting all this together in a little book for me (in a three-ring binder so that I could build on each idea as I research them more).