Poll

Looking back, would you have fired on a smaller stache?

No
20 (27%)
Yes, because I’m still making money post-fire
11 (14.9%)
Not sure
8 (10.8%)
Other
2 (2.7%)
This question doesn’t apply to me
33 (44.6%)

Total Members Voted: 74

Author Topic: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?  (Read 6266 times)

Sonos

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I’ve read many stories about folks that fire, quit their job, but then keep making money via side hustles or passion projects.

For those of you that have fired, have you found this to be true and if so, would you have fired earlier (in other words on a smaller stache) knowing you’d still be making money?

spartana

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2019, 04:05:58 PM »
I think a lot of people on this forum have plans to do that. (or are doing it already) to pad the stache once FI and RE rather then wait to  retire once their investments meet all their current and future income needs. It is often called Barista FIRE here meaning you'll likely quit your career job (or reduce hours) and work a part time, seasonal, or occasion job for added income. I'm one of the few around here who has retired and chosen to do no paid work. 'Cause ya know that stuff will kill ya!

There's also the opposite effect here (and my personal experience) that once retired we spend much less then we though we would and wished we would have retired earlier.

jim555

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2019, 04:14:09 PM »
The whole Barista FIRE thing to me makes no sense.  My "real job" paid many times what a Barista would make so Barista FIRE is wasting my time since I would have to work much longer to get the same dollars.  It seems much easier to put in a few more years and never have to worry about the money problem again.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 04:16:51 PM by jim555 »

spartana

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2019, 04:25:54 PM »
The whole Barista FIRE thing to me makes no sense.  My "real job" paid many times what a Barista would make so Barista FIRE is wasting my time since I would have to work much longer to get the same dollars.  It seems much easier to put in a few more years and never have to worry about the money problem again.
That probably depends on what you make at your career job and also what you want to do once FIRE. If you don't make much its easy to replace that lost income with another lower wage Barista-type job. If you want to quit work to do things while younger that you can't put for a few years, then it makes sense.

Mr. Green

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2019, 05:26:10 PM »
I would not have retired earlier. I count the chance of sporadic earnings as a safety net.

flyingaway

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2019, 10:48:18 PM »
I don't understand FIRED earlier and make money post-FIRE.
If that is possible, I could consider my semi-retired status as FIREd, but keep my teaching job as a side gig.

Yes, yes. I just did not know I was FIRED long time ago. But it does not matter.

Greystache

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2019, 08:48:13 AM »
I had a very specific plan on when I wanted to retire and stuck to the plan. No regrets. I did not retire until age 55 and a big part of that was qualifying for a pension at that age (golden handcuffs). The other part was a desire to pay for my kids education so they could graduate debt free. I always knew that there was a good chance that I would continue to grow my net worth based solely on investment returns and asset appreciation without the need to work. It's only been five years since I retired but so far, that's how it has worked out. My net worth is greater now than when I retired and I haven't had any earned income in that time.

ixtap

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2019, 09:11:10 AM »
We would have gone cruising sooner of we hadn't found FIRE.

We were always leary of returning to work, because we have friends and relatives who took off without long term plans. FIRE math gave us a means to secure our long term future by putting off travel plans just a couple of years.

In short, you can't know that you will make money post FIRE. And while I may have minimum standards, excess money can always be used for good.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2019, 09:15:35 AM »
I’ve read many stories about folks that fire, quit their job, but then keep making money via side hustles or passion projects.

For those of you that have fired, have you found this to be true and if so, would you have fired earlier (in other words on a smaller stache) knowing you’d still be making money?

The "R" in FIRE stands for retirement that for me meant no more work for the rest of my life so my chosen FIRE date was not based upon the possibility of income from post-fire employment.



John Galt incarnate!

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2019, 09:24:18 AM »
never have to worry about the money problem again.

^

Barring a cataclysmic, black-swan event, this is what FIREd means to me.

EDIT: Also, I would not consider myself FIREd if I did not own my house (no mortgage).
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 05:00:06 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2019, 09:31:34 AM »
I always knew that there was a good chance that I would continue to grow my net worth based solely on investment returns and asset appreciation without the need to work.

I had, and continue to have  the same expectation.

 that's how it has worked out. My net worth is greater now than when I retired and I haven't had any earned income in that time.

The same for me.


« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 09:34:44 AM by John Galt incarnate! »

BECABECA

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2019, 10:45:30 AM »
My company went through layoffs two years before I was planning to FIRE, and I decided not to seek another job, with the knowledge that if money got tight I could just go on vacation and AirBnB out my house while I was gone. Living in a large house by the beach but having economical travel tastes, I’m in a bit of a unique situation where vacationing is a net positive pretty much everywhere I’ve gone.

So I voted yes, but it’s not “yes I would have”, it’s “yes I did”.

I haven’t needed to make any money in retirement so far though, since investments have done very well.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 10:48:02 AM by BECABECA »

MasterStache

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2019, 11:12:16 AM »
The whole Barista FIRE thing to me makes no sense.  My "real job" paid many times what a Barista would make so Barista FIRE is wasting my time since I would have to work much longer to get the same dollars.  It seems much easier to put in a few more years and never have to worry about the money problem again.

I have a nice little "side gig" doing home renovations. I love the work, I work whenever I want and it's extremely rewarding. Far more than my original corporate Engineering gig. It's not necessary as we certainly don't need the money. For me the "Barista" thing is awesome. Different strokes for different folks ( :

Cassie

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2019, 11:16:25 AM »
I voted no because my side gig is sporadic.

jim555

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2019, 12:45:19 PM »
The whole Barista FIRE thing to me makes no sense.  My "real job" paid many times what a Barista would make so Barista FIRE is wasting my time since I would have to work much longer to get the same dollars.  It seems much easier to put in a few more years and never have to worry about the money problem again.

I have a nice little "side gig" doing home renovations. I love the work, I work whenever I want and it's extremely rewarding. Far more than my original corporate Engineering gig. It's not necessary as we certainly don't need the money. For me the "Barista" thing is awesome. Different strokes for different folks ( :
What you are doing is not Barista FIRE.  Barista FIRE is you need the money and HAVE TO do the side gig or you will financially fail.  Getting a side job when you are FI isn't the same.  These people want to half ass the accumulation and jump right to "retired" at an earlier age.

Paul der Krake

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2019, 02:11:16 PM »
Disclaimer: I'm less than 3 weeks into my Barista FIRE, so I know nothing.

I left a very lucrative job that could have easily added a million dollars to our assets for just 3-5 years of work, but would require a 40 hour workweek.

But free time isn't a fungible currency that I can bottle up and drink out of later. There are fast diminishing returns to it. I'd rather work a less lucrative path on a reduced schedule longer and have the free time now, rather than more free time later.

YMMV. Ask me in 3 years.

sui generis

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2019, 02:26:43 PM »
I'm only about a year and a half into FIRE, so I marked Not Sure, just because I hate being wrong and who knows what will happen to prove me wrong in the next 7 years, or 17 or (given medical advances) 70!

But I FIREd planning never to have to work again and I have so far not earned any significant remuneration during my FIRE. (I have to admit, some volunteer gigs are, essentially, covering some of my transportation costs or lunch or those types of things, which means I have gotten a few bucks so I can't say I haven't earned anything.)  I do have a conflicting desire to both never earn money again and for some wild thing to present itself to me that would be worth me giving up some measure of freedom again.  I mean, whatever it would be would have to be pretty amazing, so I can't help but think about it!

So if that happened, maybe I would wish I hadn't bothered with a last couple years or so of work and associated things I could have avoided.  Seems pretty far-fetched, but to be very careful and honest in my early stages, I went ahead and marked Not Sure.

TartanTallulah

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2019, 01:25:41 AM »
I marked "other". I'd have left my job earlier if I'd known I could slip into my current freelance gig so easily because it's a much more pleasant job, but when I FIREd it was with the intention of never working again apart, perhaps, from some seasonal work for reasons other than needing the money, and if I'd made the move much earlier it would have been a job move because I wasn't FI.

I suspect I was also offered the freelance work because otherwise I'd have been lost to an overstretched workforce and if I'd made enquiries while I was still working the response would have been, "We'd prefer you to stay in your current role."

PhilB

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2019, 02:59:58 PM »
I marked no.  My part time job is much more bearable and stress-free precisely because of the fact that I don't actually need it.

RWTL

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2019, 05:59:22 AM »
I'm not FIRE'd yet, and appreciate hearing from those who have already started.  I always anticipated that I would earn extra money, but am not planning on it.  It's interesting to hear the feedback from the group.

Trifele

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2019, 07:11:19 AM »
I marked "no."  I'm almost a year into FIRE working a small side gig.  I've had this side gig for almost twenty years and I knew it would be there, so that assumption was baked into my timing. 

frugal_c

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2019, 02:32:33 PM »
I wouldn't retire earlier but I plan to continue to work part time after I retire. It will keep my foot in the door, increase the chance that my stash lasts and I really don't think I would mind it.  I plan to do that for 2 to 5 years.  However that is just more of a precautionary measure against SORR. I would wait until I have at least 25x expenses without counting the part time income so tldr no.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 02:34:52 PM by frugal_c »

BigMoneyJim

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2019, 02:48:24 PM »
I'm sort of in the middle of this process now. I retired a couple of months ago. I may or may not need to earn income again depending on how much I spend and how the stock market goes in the next few years.

I'm way short of my original stash goal, but I got laid off in 2017 and it occurred to me then that I might downshift to cover expenses for 5-7 years.

I didn't have a plan, though, and wound up jumping at a full time gig offer in early 2018 that matched my interests and skills after 4-6 months off work.

20 years ago when I started thinking about retirement planning I completely left out my pension and SS from planning, assuming they weren't to be counted on. But late last year I realized they're only now-5.5 years and now-12 years away, and I feel more confident they'll be there when I get there. So I looked up what the amounts would be, did the calculations and realized a straight retirement now is reasonably survivable, especially when the failure scenario is more than double poverty income through the annuitized benefits.

So here I am, retired at 49.5 "in my 40s". Or maybe semiretired. But I do plan on spending down the stash if and when needed and am poking at ways I might make passive or leisurely income in ways that I'd enjoy. I feel like the biggest danger to my stash is a big market drop in the first few years, but I'm hoping I'm young enough to get back to decent-paying work if it happens in that time frame if I need to ride out a long dip.

So I guess my answer is that I did just retire earlier (as measured by stash size) than planned. Partially due to the pension & SS feeling more secure which is one form of "making money" I guess, and partially because the idea started as downshifting but still earning enough income to cover expenses and now see the potential to earn "side hustle" money as a supplement or even an enjoyable hobby.

I've journaled the situation since my 2017 layoff here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/laid-off-at-47-but-can-i-can-semi-retire-now-several-years-earlier-than-plan

soccerluvof4

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2020, 05:58:33 AM »
I marked yes only because I was doing nothing for 4.5 years and was looking for something to do. Now I work if, when I want and at most 25 hours a week when I do helping my friend flip houses and doing window, siding and stone work so learning new things as well. The truth of the matter is doing it more for peace of mind as the math does work on what I fire'd with but no one knows what the future will bring and like i said I am enjoying it but only time will tell if I "Needed" to or not. I also dont see me doing it much longer but we will see as 4 kids going through the college years has thrown some curve balls at me as well as some other things.

davisgang90

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2020, 06:14:13 AM »
I marked No because my retirement from the military was timed with kids and school and such.  We were living in a HCOL area and could not have afforded it on my pension alone.

I timed my retirement (which included a move to a lower cost of living area) with my youngest starting high school and my middle son having 2 years of education/vocational training left for the new locale (he has autism).


jfer_rose

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2020, 07:08:43 AM »
I picked not sure. I recently quit my job at about 3.5% of my annual expenses. However, my annual expenses are so minimal that I wanted a little bit more buffer before completely abandoning earned income, and I also wanted to learn some new mustachian life skills. As a result, I went into a one-year technical school program to learn woodworking. I plan to get a part-time job after I graduate to earn some buffer income and eventually to start my own business. My goal is to earn about 10K income per year, which should be fairly easy to achieve.

Villanelle

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2020, 01:00:54 PM »
The whole Barista FIRE thing to me makes no sense.  My "real job" paid many times what a Barista would make so Barista FIRE is wasting my time since I would have to work much longer to get the same dollars.  It seems much easier to put in a few more years and never have to worry about the money problem again.

It may not make sense for you, but for many people it does.  yes, your hourly rate is higher at your "real" job.  But in most cases, you have to sell 40+ hours a week to get that rate.  For Barista FIRE, you can sell perhaps 8-20.  That can be worth a lower, or even much lower rate, as can additional flexibility.

I suspect I will be a substitute teacher in FIRE.  That means that if I want to travel for 3 weeks, I don't have to make any arrangements, get any permission, find anyone to cover a shift, do any prep work to prepare projects or clients, or anything else.  I just don't accept any jobs. 

And the name can be misleading.  For many people, it's not anything remotely resembling "barista" work.  My father, for example, did consulting.  At one point, he was on retainer, making [IIRC]$60k a year and most months that meant dialing in to a weekly phone con and traveling (a ~60 min. flight or 4.5 hour drive) once a month for usually 1 meeting to the city where my sister happened to lived so he could visit her.  Hardly minimum wage salary! 

Evgenia

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Re: would you have fired earlier knowing you’d make money post-fire?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2020, 04:31:48 PM »
Yes, probably at about $500k less than the total savings we had at FIRE.