Author Topic: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work  (Read 13217 times)

Freedomin5

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #100 on: January 29, 2021, 11:43:26 PM »
I make more than double what DH makes, working fewer hours. DH has already given notice. I donít think we will get much flack, but if we do get asked if Iím okay with that, I plan on just looking at the person quizzically, and saying, ďSure, why not? Itís not like we need the money.Ē If theyíre going to be a bit snarky and judgy, Iím okay with a subtle putdown.

In terms of the power shift, DH has already offered to do all the cooking and whatever else needs doing around the house, not because I asked him to, but because he wants to.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #101 on: January 30, 2021, 01:41:53 AM »
I'm posting to follow as I am in the inverse situation. My wife is the primary breadwinner and loves her job.

But I am wondering how much flak I will get from our circle of people when I quit and she works.

As for dividing chores I would personally be ok with a 60/40 split in my direction. I love cooking and listening to e-books so I would probably do most of it voluntarily.

Anyway, even though I'm not the wife here thanks for all your posts and insights. They have been useful.

A very gentle and non-personal reminder that in many relationships, when the chores are split 50/50 each person thinks they are doing considerably more than 50%. In straight relationships, men have more of a tendency (on average, with many exceptions) to assess their contribution as higher than it is.

It sounds like you are already being very thoughtful about approaching household tasks and I hope you have an excellent retirement.

Imma

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2021, 03:23:39 AM »
It will really depend on the type of people that you socialize with and what you consider "flack".

I guess I'm pretty thick-skinned and my close circle of friends would understand why I prefer not to work.

I do have one example that surprised me:

Imagine being at a birthday party at a friends place with a lot of people that you only barely know. Well, plans were being discussed what people were doing and careers, when I was asked about my plans I told them that I was planning a 3 month sabbatical to exercise and relax. The reaction of two women was priceless. They both turned to my wife and asked indignantly "and you are just okay supporting him like THAT?". The undercurrent being that any man who didn't make any money was not worth keeping.

Afterwards my wife and I were pretty certain that they wouldn't have said anything if my wife had taken 3 months off from work. Ohh the irony.. :)

Lol, yes, my previous ex was unemployed for a period and I got a lot of flack as to why on earth I would date him, that is, until they figured out how rich his family was...which was also hilarious because it's not like he was getting a cent from them.

Oh the silly assumptions people make.

That said, my ex was a fucking asshat who should have just gotten a damn job, so they weren't wrong on their first judgement. Lol.

People are often genuinly baffled when they find out what kind of work Mr Imma does. Especially coworkers, because I can't be vague around my job title/salary around them like I usually am. They know his income must be lower and his job has very little status. They don't really know what to say. From their expressions I think they are either feeling sorry for me that I'm stuck with such a lazy, deadbeat guy or they think he must have had a mental break or something.  People are very, very nasty to men who don't work or earn less than their female partner - both women and other men.

Actually, what I admire about him is that he has many talents and that he chooses to apply them to what brings him most joy, not to what society thinks he should be doing. He gets negative reactions all the time about being a "kept" man. We are actually both financially self-sufficient and he could live perfectly well on his income only. But that's besides the point. Even if I paid the bills, that would be totally acceptable if he was female. A lot of my male coworkers have SAH wives.

Interesting.

I made more than double what DH made until I retired last year. No one ever blinked about it. However, that's probably because we both made 6 figures. Had he been working a lower than median income job, it may have been different, although a number of my female colleagues have low earning spouses and it's not perceived poorly in my social circles. There are a number of stay at home dads as well.

I caught flack for my ex because there was no reason for him to be depressingly jobless and everyone knew it.

I'm a highly specialized professional and he's a blue collar worker, I do think people feel that's different than, say, a surgeon or cardiologist with a spouse who is a (relatively) lowly paid GP. We also live in a lower middle class neighbourhood. It's a great place to live and I'm certainly not interested in spending twice as much for a similar house but in a suburb with neighbours who all went to college. But people are surprised about that sometimes.

It's a great way to filter out the secretly prejudiced "progressives" though. This relationship has cost me one of my oldest friendships. I'm sad about it, but it was the right thing to do. They are a member of the socialist party, open minded, etc etc etc but when I started dating a blue collar worker (who literally saved my life early on in the relationship) they kept trying to set me up with random acquintances that have a PhD in molecular biology or something. For me, intellectual curiosity is important, but it's totally irrelevant whether that has led to a degree or not. What attracted me to Mr Imma is that he pursued what he loved most. If for someone that's molecular biology, great, but for him it was something else.

Megs193

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #103 on: February 14, 2021, 08:05:31 PM »
But that reasoning assumes there's still a need for money. So before FI. That seems fair. But what if you are FI (together) and one half of the couple decides to quit work, but the other loves their job and doesn't want to quit? I can imagine I wouldn't be too happy doing most of the chores if I was retired while my s/o could retire (and pick up his fair share of chores) but didn't? At that point work would be more like a hobby and not necessarily a more important hobby than those of the FIRE'd woman?

This is essentially the situation I am in. My DH could RE but he loves his job and has zero desire. We balance things by paying someone to clean our house, having groceries delivered and eating more take out than we should. I donít mind cooking so I do 100% of the cooking. I also donít mind laundry because I listen to a podcast while Iím doing it so I do 100% of that as well. My DH knows how much I hate dishes so we take turns and he drops our kids off at school most of the time so I donít have to rush and get ready in the morning. I do more chores than him but the fact that he does the stuff I hate works for me. I quit working 3.5 months ago and I havenít felt any shift in power yet. We make decisions together and he doesnít seem to resent the free time I have. My biggest issue is going to be convincing him to retire when our kids graduate high school so we can travel more.

Imma

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2021, 10:21:34 AM »
I just read an article in Dutch news about domestic abuse. Having encountered this in my life both as a victim (from a parent) a direct witness (when my mother was abused) and an indirect witness (two friends went through it in their marriages) I know domestic abuse happens not just in lower economic classes but everywhere in society. But what I noticed is that this article actually listed becoming FI as a strong trigger for domestic abuse where it hadn't happened previously, because some men feel so emasculated by a financially independent woman.

This is also in a nutshell what my friend went through, she was not FI but previously her husband was the breadwinner, then she started working again and she instantly made way more than he did. It hurt him very deeply and lead first to jealousy and rows, then to abuse, then to stalking. My feeling is their marriage wasn't great before this happened. I personally can't see this happening in my own situation, I'm hyper alert for any early warning signs of abusive behaviour and I've not come across them, but I wondered if that's something other women have been worried about. I had no idea that a woman becoming FI (in the FIRE sense) seperately from her husband happened so often that it had become officially listed as a trigger, but of course it happens quite a lot that when one person loses their job, the other starts to work more hours, and I suppose inheritances are not uncommon either. In my country it's pretty much standard practice that inheritances to not become part of the marital assets. Is this something any of you have ever worried about?

Linea_Norway

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #105 on: February 22, 2021, 11:08:43 AM »
I don't worry about this, because my DH is not so driven by status and being masculin.

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #106 on: February 22, 2021, 11:25:05 AM »
I'm grateful I don't think I have to worry about this either, but I'm always on alert.  You never know even with the best of people how a trauma or health problem might change something and change a relationship.  I don't want to get complacent. 

But, I definitely see this risk from a prior relationship of my own.  It was just a risk, but there were definitely some red flags around things that would make him feel emasculated.  Our society is just so fucked up to raise boys to be so fragile and precarious in their self-worth.  I feel pretty bad for them except for the fact that the people they take it out on suffer even more than they do.

And I absolutely agree that this is a problem that crosses economic class.  Even though society has gotten better about encouraging and opening spaces to female achievement, it has not gotten much better (IMO) about the implicit ways girls are taught to defer to males, to please males, and to placate males.  Therefore, even if you are doing something that is celebrated, a male in your life expressing displeasure means something is wrong with what you're doing and it's a priority to resolve that conflict.  But this is the best time to prevent controlling and abusive behaviors before they get started.

Until all women, of all classes, aren't intimidated by male anger, this is a risk people need to be aware of.

charis

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #107 on: February 22, 2021, 10:57:36 PM »
I just read an article in Dutch news about domestic abuse. Having encountered this in my life both as a victim (from a parent) a direct witness (when my mother was abused) and an indirect witness (two friends went through it in their marriages) I know domestic abuse happens not just in lower economic classes but everywhere in society. But what I noticed is that this article actually listed becoming FI as a strong trigger for domestic abuse where it hadn't happened previously, because some men feel so emasculated by a financially independent woman.

This is also in a nutshell what my friend went through, she was not FI but previously her husband was the breadwinner, then she started working again and she instantly made way more than he did. It hurt him very deeply and lead first to jealousy and rows, then to abuse, then to stalking. My feeling is their marriage wasn't great before this happened. I personally can't see this happening in my own situation, I'm hyper alert for any early warning signs of abusive behaviour and I've not come across them, but I wondered if that's something other women have been worried about. I had no idea that a woman becoming FI (in the FIRE sense) seperately from her husband happened so often that it had become officially listed as a trigger, but of course it happens quite a lot that when one person loses their job, the other starts to work more hours, and I suppose inheritances are not uncommon either. In my country it's pretty much standard practice that inheritances to not become part of the marital assets. Is this something any of you have ever worried about?

My spouse will frequently joke about our salary difference, and I have never been worried about abusive behavior.  But we clearly value each other's contributions to the household and finances equally regardless of who makes what and there is no chance that either of us will reach FI separately because all of our income/assets are marital and we've never had separate finances. I earn more now, but if I reduced my hours greatly at some point, he may be the breadwinner. Plus all non-financial contributions to the relationship are as highly valued as the financial contributions, as they should be (this cuts both ways).  Neither of us is immune to being carried by the other - one of us could become disabled at any moment.  This may not answer your question as there never, ever an excuse for abusive behavior.  But I feel very strongly about being a unit as a couple, so that neither person should feel that their non-financial contributions are seen as being of lesser value.

Malcat

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2021, 06:26:53 AM »
I don't worry about this, because my DH is not so driven by status and being masculin.

Same, I have absolutely zero concerns of abuse from my DH, and I'm not sure it's possible to emasculate him.

He's an extremely confident man, but little of that confidence is fueled by traditional masculine value. He has no issue with me holding more traditionally masculine roles in our marriage, he rather enjoys observing people's sexist reactions to us, like when people ask why he took my last name, he'll often reply "would you ask her that?" or if he's feeling less confrontational he'll say "Have you met my wife? Wouldn't you?"




Dreamer40

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2021, 11:00:47 AM »
This thread has been interesting. One week from now, I'll be a retired woman with a husband still working. We haven't quite reached our FI number so he will stick it out a few more years while I take over more of the household work. Sounds like a good deal to me! I do most of our cooking anyway because I enjoy it. Cleaning doesn't really bother me, especially if I'm not trying to fit it around work responsibilities. My career got stared earlier than his and all our finances have always been shared. I contributed more early and he'll contribute more late. He also mostly likes his work so there shouldn't be a ton of resentment if I spend all day eating bonbons.

I'm not at all concerned about abuse. His mother worked at a domestic violence nonprofit for years, and she lives down the street. :) She raised her son well. We've always had the kind of relationship where we're a team and take care of each other. I'm honestly excited about the idea of being a "housewife." And after all the stresses we've gone through in the past year (covid, wildfires, 87-hour power outage, medical stuff, etc), I'm pretty sure we'll be fine with me quitting my terrible job!

bye-bye Ms. FancyPants

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #110 on: March 26, 2021, 11:15:36 AM »
I think this is a pretty wise question. While I believe the folks who say this hasn't been an issue in their marriage, I suspect they are unicorns.

I am not FIRED but part of our family plan is eventually for me to leave my job while DH still works. One of the things that has me nervous about it is the balance of power. I noticed a shift when I began a remote work job a decade ago while I was supporting DH through another graduate degree and career change. It got worse with kids, and COVID has exacerbated it further. I have always been the main breadwinner and do more than 50% of house stuff (though DH contributes to household chores far more than either of our fathers ever did).

The world is just built for men's jobs to be more "important" and fighting the status quo is really hard. More than just hard, I find fighting the status quo to be exhausting. I'd say you have to have the discussions up front, and then keep openly communicating about what you agreed to.  DH and I have serious and uncomfortable discussions about this pretty regularly (we've been doing this for a decade) and it STILL REVERTS to an imbalance of power.

For what it is worth - while StarHus and I have always said we are committed to equality in our marriage we were both raised in families that operated on traditional gender roles, so I suspect we find it harder to break the patterns than people who were raised differently.

I have always been very independent and am currently the breadwinner in our marriage and the thought of this TERRIFIES me. My husband will continue to work bc he likes his job but also because it offers great insurance that covers us both. But I don't ever want to feel "stuck" or reliable on someone else.

Morning Glory

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2021, 11:52:19 AM »
I think this is a pretty wise question. While I believe the folks who say this hasn't been an issue in their marriage, I suspect they are unicorns.

I am not FIRED but part of our family plan is eventually for me to leave my job while DH still works. One of the things that has me nervous about it is the balance of power. I noticed a shift when I began a remote work job a decade ago while I was supporting DH through another graduate degree and career change. It got worse with kids, and COVID has exacerbated it further. I have always been the main breadwinner and do more than 50% of house stuff (though DH contributes to household chores far more than either of our fathers ever did).

The world is just built for men's jobs to be more "important" and fighting the status quo is really hard. More than just hard, I find fighting the status quo to be exhausting. I'd say you have to have the discussions up front, and then keep openly communicating about what you agreed to.  DH and I have serious and uncomfortable discussions about this pretty regularly (we've been doing this for a decade) and it STILL REVERTS to an imbalance of power.

For what it is worth - while StarHus and I have always said we are committed to equality in our marriage we were both raised in families that operated on traditional gender roles, so I suspect we find it harder to break the patterns than people who were raised differently.

I have always been very independent and am currently the breadwinner in our marriage and the thought of this TERRIFIES me. My husband will continue to work bc he likes his job but also because it offers great insurance that covers us both. But I don't ever want to feel "stuck" or reliable on someone else.

I went into my career with that feeling after seeing the stress my mom went through while going back to school after a divorce.  I did not want that to happen to me, and still don't. Now I feel equally "stuck" because everyone relies on me.  I get a lot of anxiety about job security because I am the one that supports everyone and provides health insurance.   This has led me to be overly cautious about some career decisions, including staying in bad situations longer than I should have because I needed the insurance and paycheck.  My husband does not have the skills to get a high-paying job if something happens and I am unable to work. If I divorce him I will probably have to pay spousal support or child support, even if we split custody 50-50.  I would like for him to go back to school and/or get a job so that I feel like I have a choice, even if I ultimately decide to stay with him.

Malcat

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #112 on: March 26, 2021, 02:27:39 PM »
I think this is a pretty wise question. While I believe the folks who say this hasn't been an issue in their marriage, I suspect they are unicorns.

I am not FIRED but part of our family plan is eventually for me to leave my job while DH still works. One of the things that has me nervous about it is the balance of power. I noticed a shift when I began a remote work job a decade ago while I was supporting DH through another graduate degree and career change. It got worse with kids, and COVID has exacerbated it further. I have always been the main breadwinner and do more than 50% of house stuff (though DH contributes to household chores far more than either of our fathers ever did).

The world is just built for men's jobs to be more "important" and fighting the status quo is really hard. More than just hard, I find fighting the status quo to be exhausting. I'd say you have to have the discussions up front, and then keep openly communicating about what you agreed to.  DH and I have serious and uncomfortable discussions about this pretty regularly (we've been doing this for a decade) and it STILL REVERTS to an imbalance of power.

For what it is worth - while StarHus and I have always said we are committed to equality in our marriage we were both raised in families that operated on traditional gender roles, so I suspect we find it harder to break the patterns than people who were raised differently.

I have always been very independent and am currently the breadwinner in our marriage and the thought of this TERRIFIES me. My husband will continue to work bc he likes his job but also because it offers great insurance that covers us both. But I don't ever want to feel "stuck" or reliable on someone else.

I can tell you from my personal experience having been a ferociously independent woman, and the main breadwinner in my marriage, it's really a non issue if your partner is cool.

My DH just keeps telling me to simmer down because I've worked enough for multiple lifetimes and he's just catching up with me. This morning he said "I fucked off to Europe in my summers during undergrad and spent the rest of the time high and occasionally going to class, you worked 100 hour weeks, took extra courses and studied on Friday nights. You've always sucked at resting, so simmer down and get started on the backlog of chilling out that you've been neglecting your entire life. The world will still be there to save tomorrow, don't worry, we won't fuck it up too badly in the meantime."

bye-bye Ms. FancyPants

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #113 on: March 26, 2021, 07:53:36 PM »
I think this is a pretty wise question. While I believe the folks who say this hasn't been an issue in their marriage, I suspect they are unicorns.

I am not FIRED but part of our family plan is eventually for me to leave my job while DH still works. One of the things that has me nervous about it is the balance of power. I noticed a shift when I began a remote work job a decade ago while I was supporting DH through another graduate degree and career change. It got worse with kids, and COVID has exacerbated it further. I have always been the main breadwinner and do more than 50% of house stuff (though DH contributes to household chores far more than either of our fathers ever did).

The world is just built for men's jobs to be more "important" and fighting the status quo is really hard. More than just hard, I find fighting the status quo to be exhausting. I'd say you have to have the discussions up front, and then keep openly communicating about what you agreed to.  DH and I have serious and uncomfortable discussions about this pretty regularly (we've been doing this for a decade) and it STILL REVERTS to an imbalance of power.

For what it is worth - while StarHus and I have always said we are committed to equality in our marriage we were both raised in families that operated on traditional gender roles, so I suspect we find it harder to break the patterns than people who were raised differently.

I have always been very independent and am currently the breadwinner in our marriage and the thought of this TERRIFIES me. My husband will continue to work bc he likes his job but also because it offers great insurance that covers us both. But I don't ever want to feel "stuck" or reliable on someone else.

I can tell you from my personal experience having been a ferociously independent woman, and the main breadwinner in my marriage, it's really a non issue if your partner is cool.

My DH just keeps telling me to simmer down because I've worked enough for multiple lifetimes and he's just catching up with me. This morning he said "I fucked off to Europe in my summers during undergrad and spent the rest of the time high and occasionally going to class, you worked 100 hour weeks, took extra courses and studied on Friday nights. You've always sucked at resting, so simmer down and get started on the backlog of chilling out that you've been neglecting your entire life. The world will still be there to save tomorrow, don't worry, we won't fuck it up too badly in the meantime."

Aww, what a great guy! LOL @Simmer down..... I know my worry is 100% mine. Although a man of few words, my husband is similar.

Malcat

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Re: Women mustachians whose husbands/SOs still work
« Reply #114 on: March 27, 2021, 09:39:50 AM »
I think this is a pretty wise question. While I believe the folks who say this hasn't been an issue in their marriage, I suspect they are unicorns.

I am not FIRED but part of our family plan is eventually for me to leave my job while DH still works. One of the things that has me nervous about it is the balance of power. I noticed a shift when I began a remote work job a decade ago while I was supporting DH through another graduate degree and career change. It got worse with kids, and COVID has exacerbated it further. I have always been the main breadwinner and do more than 50% of house stuff (though DH contributes to household chores far more than either of our fathers ever did).

The world is just built for men's jobs to be more "important" and fighting the status quo is really hard. More than just hard, I find fighting the status quo to be exhausting. I'd say you have to have the discussions up front, and then keep openly communicating about what you agreed to.  DH and I have serious and uncomfortable discussions about this pretty regularly (we've been doing this for a decade) and it STILL REVERTS to an imbalance of power.

For what it is worth - while StarHus and I have always said we are committed to equality in our marriage we were both raised in families that operated on traditional gender roles, so I suspect we find it harder to break the patterns than people who were raised differently.

I have always been very independent and am currently the breadwinner in our marriage and the thought of this TERRIFIES me. My husband will continue to work bc he likes his job but also because it offers great insurance that covers us both. But I don't ever want to feel "stuck" or reliable on someone else.

I can tell you from my personal experience having been a ferociously independent woman, and the main breadwinner in my marriage, it's really a non issue if your partner is cool.

My DH just keeps telling me to simmer down because I've worked enough for multiple lifetimes and he's just catching up with me. This morning he said "I fucked off to Europe in my summers during undergrad and spent the rest of the time high and occasionally going to class, you worked 100 hour weeks, took extra courses and studied on Friday nights. You've always sucked at resting, so simmer down and get started on the backlog of chilling out that you've been neglecting your entire life. The world will still be there to save tomorrow, don't worry, we won't fuck it up too badly in the meantime."

Aww, what a great guy! LOL @Simmer down..... I know my worry is 100% mine. Although a man of few words, my husband is similar.

What's the basis of the fear then?
Does it feel like a legitimate fear, or an irrational fear?