Who here has been FIREd for a long time, or the longest of all?

[austin944]

Who here on the MMM forums has been FIREd for say 10 years or longer?  Anyone close to that?  If not, who has gone the longest?

I frequently read about forum members being FIREd for a few years, but I can't recall reading about anyone who's been FIRED for a much longer time.

Is it just natural that more people will have been FIREd for a shorter time?  Do the long-timers exist and I just haven't seen them post yet?  Do they not join the MMM forums or simply stop participating after a few years?  Do many of them wind up going back to full-time work, or simply fall off the map in other ways (hopefully good)?

I guess it bothers me a little that I don't hear from many long-timers.

I realize that the long-timers may have FIREd before the MMM forums even existed, or even before the term was invented.

[DreamFIRE]

spartana, not sure who else.

[Mr. Green]

I've heard of quite a few people from this forum hitting FIRE and then not posting here anymore. They get involved in whatever their freedom has bought them and visiting a forum on the internet falls off the priority list. Good for them, I say, though I'm also thankful for those that do stick around and continue providing their input on stuff.

[CowboyAndIndian]

@spartana, @Dicey, our fearless leader  Mr Money Mustache himself.

Those who are FIRE'ed feel less need to be on the forum as FIRE has gone from very high on their priority list to an item on their checked-off list.

I FIRE'ed at the start of 2018 and I am finding that I get on the forum about 4 times a week compared to about 4 times a day. I even took a month off the forums from mid-April to mid-May, which I have never done before.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

I will hit the 6 year mark on 12OCT2018.

[erutio]

I will hit the 6 year mark on 12OCT2018.

By the way you write the date, are you military (or ex-military)?

[secondcor521]

John Greaney (intercst) retired in 1994 at age 38.  He's the person responsible for www.retireearlyhomepage.com, one of the earliest websites about FIRE.

There are a lot more long-time retired people over at www.early-retirement.org.  That forum has been around longer and seems to be on average an older and wealthier group of folks.

I've been FIREd about 2.5 years.  My interest and participation in the forums are waning.  I have already read through and decided most of the questions about FIRE as they apply to my life - whether to pay off the mortgage, when to take SS, how to invest, how to live off my portfolio, taxes, etc.  Many of the threads here are, for me and other long-timers, rehashing old topics and do not provide any new information.

For a while I was giving back and answering questions, and that felt good, but now I'm not as interested in that - others answer the questions just fine usually.  I also no longer feel the need to correct every mistaken post on the Internet - life's too short.

[jim555]

For me, this fall will be 4 years.

[Mrs. Rocker]

We are on year five of being FIRE'd. It took us awhile to find our path and settle into a groove but that's to be expected with a major life change. Love the FIRE'd life!

[Financial.Velociraptor]

I will hit the 6 year mark on 12OCT2018.

By the way you write the date, are you military (or ex-military)?

I used to work for a very multinational company in accounting.  There were a few slip ups when the non-US accountants read American date format as European date format and missed deadlines.  I adopted the DDMMMYYYY format to eliminate confusion.

[Nords]

Who here on the MMM forums has been FIREd for say 10 years or longer?  Anyone close to that?  If not, who has gone the longest?

I frequently read about forum members being FIREd for a few years, but I can't recall reading about anyone who's been FIRED for a much longer time.

My spouse and I reached FI in 1999 (in retrospect) and I retired from active duty 16 years ago in 2002. 

Is it just natural that more people will have been FIREd for a shorter time? 

I sure hope so.  That means we authors, bloggers, podcasters, and vloggers are doing our job to spread the word and help show more people how to reach FI.

Do the long-timers exist and I just haven't seen them post yet?  Do they not join the MMM forums or simply stop participating after a few years?

Yes.  Many of my FI readers don’t want to discuss it publicly, for various reasons like remaining The Millionaire Next Door or “stealth FI”.

Do many of them wind up going back to full-time work, or simply fall off the map in other ways (hopefully good)?

Um.

Jacob Lund Fisker declared FI on an extremely high savings rate (and extremely low expenses) yet opted to go back to work for the intellectual challenge.  I can’t decide whether he was truly FI or else decided to take a tactful exit.  He was never so much about FI as he was about sustainable lifestyle.  I think he actually passed the torch to MMM in 2011.

One of my in-laws achieved FI in the early 1990s but then shorted the Internet stock market so hard and for so long that he ended up right back in the workforce by 1998.  (He’s the poster child for the truism “The stock market can remain irrationally exuberant for longer than you can remain solvent.”)  He reached a sustainable FI in 2004 and has been fine since then. 

In the early 2000s another poster on E-R.org declared his FI and then freaked out over (1) portfolio volatility and (2) watching his cash account balance drop as he made withdrawals per the 4% SWR.  At some point he declined into a pernicious troll with possible bipolar health issues.  He never seemed to go back to work but rather bounced across the U.S. in a series of ever-cheaper apartments, seeking a lower cost of living.  He caused quite a bit of trouble for the E-R.org moderators.

Dixonge on Early-Retirement.org posted about accelerating his FI with his options-trading tactics.  He understood the risk and did quite well for over a year until market volatility blew him up almost overnight.  To his credit, he and his spouse bounced back, spent a few years vagabonding in a trailer while freelancing, and today are either FI or very close to it.

In 2008 another E-R.org FI poster had a portfolio heavily concentrated in Bank of America’s dividends.  As the stock began to sink, he kept backing up the truck to buy the dips.  When BofA cut their dividend to a penny, he was un-FI overnight.  I’m pretty sure he hung on to the stock and I think he returned to some sort of employment until the rest of his portfolio recovered.  Today he’s FI again.

I realize that the long-timers may have FIREd before the MMM forums even existed, or even before the term was invented.

John Greaney (intercst) retired in 1994 at age 38.  He's the person responsible for www.retireearlyhomepage.com, one of the earliest websites about FIRE.

There are a lot more long-time retired people over at www.early-retirement.org.  That forum has been around longer and seems to be on average an older and wealthier group of folks.

Yep. 

There’s also Billy & Akaisha Kaderli (since 1991 in their late 30s) at RetireEarlyLifestyle, and Paul & Vicki Terhorst (since 1984, also late 30s).  The poster Jarhead on Early-Retirement.org claims that he reached FI in the 1980s (in his 40s?  50s?)  but he no longer posts and we fear that he’s passed away.  I think that poster Haha on E-R.org reached FI in the 1980s also. 

I’m not sure when Vicki Robin declared her FI but Joe Dominguez reached it in 1969.  He passed away from cancer in 1997. 

I believe that Amy Dacyczyn reached FI in the 1980s (her spouse is a retired Navy E-6) but the Internet Retirement Police would’ve been pretty unhappy with her subsequent revenue from her Tightwad Gazette newsletters & books.  A couple of bloggers & podcasters tracked down Amy a few years ago but she’s firmly declined all interview offers and says she’s really retired now.

My interest and participation in the forums are waning.  I have already read through and decided most of the questions about FIRE as they apply to my life - whether to pay off the mortgage, when to take SS, how to invest, how to live off my portfolio, taxes, etc.  Many of the threads here are, for me and other long-timers, rehashing old topics and do not provide any new information.

I’m still developing better answers to the usual questions.  I’m interested in new twists to the classic perpetual debates, but you can only slice a salami so thin.

I’m also “spreading out” rather than focusing on individual forums.  The most military readers seem to be on the Military Finance subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryFinance/) and a half-dozen Facebook groups. 

I stopped reading every post here years ago and now only check in weekly or when I’m tagged.  (Thanks, @spartana!)

@austin944, if you're wondering whether the 4% SWR really works or whether FI people get bored and go back to paid employment, then the answers are "almost always" and "I know of a few".  I also know several FI bloggers who are still bloggers and still building online businesses and seem unlikely to ever stop.

[soccerluvof4]

3.5 years in. So far so good!

[Stachey]

Ernie Zelinski wrote "How to Retire Happy Wild and Free" many decades ago when he retired as a young man.  I think he's been retired this whole time but not positive.  I don't know if he's on this forum anywhere.

It's two years for me.

[austin944]

@austin944, if you're wondering whether the 4% SWR really works or whether FI people get bored and go back to paid employment, then the answers are "almost always" and "I know of a few".  I also know several FI bloggers who are still bloggers and still building online businesses and seem unlikely to ever stop.

Yes, I had those questions in mind, and also if anybody had remained in ER through the 2008-2009 great recession.

BTW I just added a poll to this thread.

[secondcor521]

@austin944, if you're wondering whether the 4% SWR really works or whether FI people get bored and go back to paid employment, then the answers are "almost always" and "I know of a few".  I also know several FI bloggers who are still bloggers and still building online businesses and seem unlikely to ever stop.

Yes, I had those questions in mind, and also if anybody had remained in ER through the 2008-2009 great recession.

BTW I just added a poll to this thread.

I was not FIREd in 2008-2009.  But my impression of the people at early-retirement.org who did live through that time period as an early retiree is as follows:

Many (most?) became nervous, hunkered down, cut discretionary spending, stayed the course investment-wise, and have since recovered just fine.  A subset of these got nervous enough to go back to work for a few years.  An even smaller subset noticed that the cost of cruises and home improvement projects were very cheap and ended up spending more on these items.

Some panicked (reasonable conclusion - I was concerned but then I still had a job) and sold out at or near the bottom and returned to work.  These people nearly universally did not get back in for years afterward and missed most or all of the 2009-present recovery, and are mostly still working.

Some discovered that their AA going into the recession was too aggressive and they dialed back.  I don't know how these people turned out.

It is hard to tell the true relative proportions since people who survived that period are more likely to talk about it on a FIRE forum.  Those who panicked or failed in some way are less likely to discuss it (or even be on a FIRE forum any more in the first place).

I think if you're wondering how to prepare for the next downturn, it's simple:  make sure your AA is set so you can stay the course, and have a plan that is historically safe enough for your liking.  For me at age 49 that means a 90/10 AA and a 1.11% net WR with about a dozen contingency plans.  I think if I were hit with another 2008/2009, I would hunker down and stay the course.  I might get a job if my net WR got above 4%.  I don't think I would have the guts to go on a cruise or remodel my house.

[Nords]

@austin944, if you're wondering whether the 4% SWR really works or whether FI people get bored and go back to paid employment, then the answers are "almost always" and "I know of a few".  I also know several FI bloggers who are still bloggers and still building online businesses and seem unlikely to ever stop.

Yes, I had those questions in mind, and also if anybody had remained in ER through the 2008-2009 great recession.

Recessions are a great time to reach FI.  Interestingly, if you have enough assets during the depth of a recession to (still) meet the 4% SWR, then you'll probably have a 100% success ratio over the next three decades... and possibly for the rest of your life.

Meanwhile the peak of a bull market is much more likely to raise asset values to FI levels, only to savage the portfolio a few years later with sequence-of-returns risk.  I'm not suggest that we're at the peak of a bull market... not yet... but that's the history of FI during bull markets.  Anyone who declared FI in December 1999 and slavishly followed the 4% SWR during the next two recessions will probably run out of money before 2029, despite the "great recovery" after the Great Recession.

I had very low barebones expenses when I FIREd with a paid off house, free medical thru the VA, no debt and low expenses. I had enough in cash (laddered CDs and bonds) to last me thru the recession so didn't need to touch the much diminished stash, didn't need go back to work or earn any extra money. I tightened the belt a bit and just did a lot of fun things that were mostly free or very low cost. To be honest it was one of the best times I had while FIREd and also one of the most informative as I learned just how little money I needed to live a great life.

As Spartana says, one defense against sequence-of-returns risk is keeping two years' expenses in cash for the first decade of FI. 
http://the-military-guide.com/survive-stock-market-crash/

By the end of that portion of FI, the portfolio will have ideally grown faster than inflation.  The resulting spending (as a percentage of the larger portfolio) will have dropped below the 4% SWR.  If it drops to 3%-3.5% then it might be bulletproof.  Holding on during 2008-09 was not easy or fun, but it's more than paid off by now:
http://the-military-guide.com/hey-nords-hows-net-worth/

Many (most?) became nervous, hunkered down, cut discretionary spending, stayed the course investment-wise, and have since recovered just fine.
[...]
An even smaller subset noticed that the cost of cruises and home improvement projects were very cheap and ended up spending more on these items.

We did that. 

It wasn't so much that we were throwing all of our dry powder at the stock markets, cruise ships, or home improvement-- it's that these things were on sale and we could afford them on our existing budget. 

Another "nice" thing about a recession is that contractors actually return your phone calls and even put in competitive bids.  That's hard to accomplish during a bull market.

[GuitarBrian]

I FIREd last year at 29.
My parents FIREd in 1996 at 36/38.
My grandfather retired at 48, back in the 70s. He's now 90.

[Village Farang]

 I stopped working 24 years ago at age 40 but I had no idea I was firing at the time, as I had never heard the term.   I wandered around the site bit at first but there really wasn’t anything relevant to me in here so I pretty much just moved on.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Who will be the first to retire in the womb off the proceeds from selling their amniotic fluid?!?

[BZB]

Who will be the first to retire in the womb off the proceeds from selling their amniotic fluid?!?

Prenatal financial coaching for high-achieving fetuses - now there's a business opportunity!

[amoose]

My 10-year FIREversary will be next week (on 08/01/2018).

FIRE hasn't been perfect (nothing ever is), but it sure beats working for a living! 

[terran]

My 10-year FIREversary will be next week (on 08/01/2018).

FIRE hasn't been perfect (nothing ever is), but it sure beats working for a living!

Looks like you were right in the middle of the things going to hell in a hand basket just then. What can you tell us about what it was like to retire when everyone was freaking out? How did you make the decision that it would be ok? Or was it more of a forced retirement? In which case, when and how did you decide you could make it permanent?

[amoose]

Looks like you were right in the middle of the things going to hell in a hand basket just then. What can you tell us about what it was like to retire when everyone was freaking out? How did you make the decision that it would be ok? Or was it more of a forced retirement? In which case, when and how did you decide you could make it permanent?

My retirement was voluntary and had been in the works for several years. In early 2008, I moved all my 401k into cash since i would soon be moving it into rollover IRAs. Most of my other assets were also in cash (or real estate) at that time. My plan was to retire first and then decide post-retirement how much in equities to include in my asset allocation. So by pure dumb luck i missed the downturn in equities.

My decision that i could retire for good was based on basic math. Back then I'd never heard about the 4% rule. I just took our household net worth and divided it by our average annual expenses (since 1997, I'd kept track of every penny spent). This bone-headed calculation showed that as long as our investments stayed even with inflation my wife and i had accumulated enough wealth to both make it past age 100 (and that's before accounting for any social security benefits).

[terran]

Looks like you were right in the middle of the things going to hell in a hand basket just then. What can you tell us about what it was like to retire when everyone was freaking out? How did you make the decision that it would be ok? Or was it more of a forced retirement? In which case, when and how did you decide you could make it permanent?

My retirement was voluntary and had been in the works for several years. In early 2008, I moved all my 401k into cash since i would soon be moving it into rollover IRAs. Most of my other assets were also in cash (or real estate) at that time. My plan was to retire first and then decide post-retirement how much in equities to include in my asset allocation. So by pure dumb luck i missed the downturn in equities.

My decision that i could retire for good was based on basic math. Back then I'd never heard about the 4% rule. I just took our household net worth and divided it by our average annual expenses (since 1997, I'd kept track of every penny spent). This bone-headed calculation showed that as long as our investments stayed even with inflation my wife and i had accumulated enough wealth to both make it past age 100 (and that's before accounting for any social security benefits).

Wow, lucky indeed! Although, as they say, the problem with market timing is you have to be right twice. I assume you've gotten back into the market at this point?

[amoose]

I'm afraid i was lucky/right once only.

Since the Great Recession, i've under-weighted equities. But despite this, our net worth is still up 20+ percent from year-end 2008—not too bad an increase after paying for 10 years of living expenses. More importantly, my bone-headed retirement plan continues to work. As of 2018, we still have enough on hand to both make it past age 100 (and that's not accounting for any social security benefits we'll receive).

[Ozstache]

I've been FIREd about 2.5 years.  My interest and participation in the forums are waning.  I have already read through and decided most of the questions about FIRE as they apply to my life - whether to pay off the mortgage, when to take SS, how to invest, how to live off my portfolio, taxes, etc.  Many of the threads here are, for me and other long-timers, rehashing old topics and do not provide any new information.

For a while I was giving back and answering questions, and that felt good, but now I'm not as interested in that - others answer the questions just fine usually.  I also no longer feel the need to correct every mistaken post on the Internet - life's too short.

+1

I've been FIREd nearly 5 years and rarely post here anymore for the above reasons. I stick around mainly to find out about local meetups and to occasionally read the post-FIRE forum to see if a really new question comes up, like this one, and throw in my two bob's worth. There are a lot on this forum who have only seen a rising market in their FIRE investing time span so I am also curious as to how the mood of the community will change once we enter a bear phase again.

[davisgang90]

I'm a FIRE newb, 1.5 months.  So far it has been really busy with moving, vacation and getting a new home setup, so it hasn't felt like much of a retirement yet!

I think when the kids go back to school and the unpacking is (mostly) complete, it will start to feel more real.  I've already got a side-hustle or two lined up as well and I'm getting established in the new community so that will bring new opportunities as well.

[Happily Irrelevant]

I stopped working 10 years ago, and retired from my job 6 years ago.  Funny how that happens with the government.

[thunderball]

I stopped working 10 years ago, and retired from my job 6 years ago.  Funny how that happens with the government.

LOL.  Classic!

I try to keep that mindset but it's a challenge some days.  Maybe after FI!

[BigMoneyJim]

I'm hopefully semi-retire-FIRE'd for about negative 6 months.

But the thing with forums is that the vast majority of folks are lurkers, even those who stick around a lot.

And the thing about financial forums is that once you figure your situation out you don't really need to keep going back, and the questions start to seem repetitious and not relevant anymore.

And another thing is that once you retire, (I presume) you don't need the escapism / future-borrowing you get from reading forums like this and have your own adventure to pursue.

And then if a FIREd person truly does want to share their adventure, they might have a side hustle doing on a blog instead.

So the long-timer FIREd people who stick around we might deduce are side-hustling, addicted to forums, or just really generous people who love to help others towards their FIRE goals. And I'm thankful for all of them!

[Dicey]

Dicey here. My six year FIRE-versary will be on 05DEC2018.

My life post-FIRE looks nothing like I planned. When DH's dad died, we realized his mom has ALZ. We bought a lovely clown house to suit her needs and moved in together. We can't travel as we'd like, so DH keeps working. I am actively engaged in my community and enjoying a different life than I imagined. Staying connected here helps my sanity. I am also deeply, intensely, immensely grateful for the guidance I received here in the early days of the blog. I stay in hopes of making the path to FIRE easier for others.

Yes, there are people I truly miss (@serpentstooth, @Cheddar Stacker, @dagiffy, @PJ, @FLA. Hell even @arebelspy, @lifejoy, and @ysette9 are scarce these days, to name a few. The last three have new (-ish) babies, so there's that, but still...). Plus all the illustrious alumnae who have chimed in above, of course. And many more whose names escape me at the moment...

When I think of them, I always imagine that they've reached their goals and off living their best life.

Some day, when DH retires and his mom is gone and we've downsized, I may well ride off into the sunset. But for now, it helps me to help others. I am so, so grateful for this community!

[ysette9]

I’m alive, Dicey!

You are right about falling off a bit. There is the baby thing but actually what has been happening recently is a combo of interviewing and then accepting a new job (yet to start) and our daycare closing. I am still looking for alternative childcare arrangements while finishing up a 14-year career and prepping to start a new job in a totally new industry. Ack!

I still love all of you though. I’m just doing more navel-gazing right now than normal. Like you, I am very grateful for this corner of the Internet. I really appreciate the community of smart, supportive, respectful, and challenging people here. This is the first time ever in my history of being on the internets that I have ever felt I’ve made true personal connections to random internet strangers.

[Dicey]

I’m alive, Dicey!

You are right about falling off a bit. There is the baby thing but actually what has been happening recently is a combo of interviewing and then accepting a new job (yet to start) and our daycare closing. I am still looking for alternative childcare arrangements while finishing up a 14-year career and prepping to start a new job in a totally new industry. Ack!

I still love all of you though. I’m just doing more navel-gazing right now than normal. Like you, I am very grateful for this corner of the Internet. I really appreciate the community of smart, supportive, respectful, and challenging people here. This is the first time ever in my history of being on the internets that I have ever felt I’ve made true personal connections to random internet strangers.

Ooh, can't wait to hear more!

[Cheddar Stacker]

I’m alive, Dicey!

+1.

The job change a couple years back drastically changed my forum habits. Mostly just a reader/lurker now. Still working and will be for at least a few more years. Despite that, trying to live my best life while stashing.

For funsies last week I did a 72 hour fast. That was much harder than expected after doing multiple 48 hour ones. Hope to join the FIRE ranks within the next few years.

[Nords]

I do often wonder if anyone actually wants to hear about the long term FIRE experiences though.

Of course once we’ve crossed the FI finish line, it’s simply the start of a fun-run marathon...

[Ladychips]

I do often wonder if anyone actually wants to hear about the long term FIRE experiences though.

Oh, I absolutely want to hear.  I've done the math a million times, but that's not the same as KNOWING it can work.  I'm really grateful when those who have navigated fire share their experiences.  Please continue!!

[TempusFugit]

I do often wonder if anyone actually wants to hear about the long term FIRE experiences though.

Oh, I absolutely want to hear.  I've done the math a million times, but that's not the same as KNOWING it can work.  I'm really grateful when those who have navigated fire share their experiences.  Please continue!!

I'm not as interested in the finances post-fire (I mean, I'm interested, but just the normal amount) as I am the psychology/emotional/social aspects.  I want to hear what people have found to invest their time and energy into. 

[Cassie]

We retired 6 years ago. Me voluntarily at 58 and DH at 53 due to a lay off. In all that time he has had 2 consulting projects that lasted a year each. He would prefer to be working. About a year after retiring I was offered a chance to teach a online college class. I love it and can teach from anywhere with a internet connection.  We enjoy traveling, reading, movies, eating out, events, festivals, volunteering and our family and friends. We also have 3 dogs. Life is good.

[Ladychips]

I do often wonder if anyone actually wants to hear about the long term FIRE experiences though.

Oh, I absolutely want to hear.  I've done the math a million times, but that's not the same as KNOWING it can work.  I'm really grateful when those who have navigated fire share their experiences.  Please continue!!

Guess this means I get to keep yapping about FIRE ;-)! I also find I still deal with a lot of the social and emotional stuff that comes with retiring early and find coming here to read about others experiences very helpful.

+1

[MsRichLife]

I've heard of quite a few people from this forum hitting FIRE and then not posting here anymore. They get involved in whatever their freedom has bought them and visiting a forum on the internet falls off the priority list. Good for them, I say, though I'm also thankful for those that do stick around and continue providing their input on stuff.

This was me. FIREd nearly two years ago and have spent this long finding my groove in FIREd land. I realised just this week that I really missed this forum, so figured I'd come back and say Hi.

[happy]

Hi Ms Rich Life!. I was just thinking about you the other day. Nice to see you posting.