Author Topic: Where did you retire abroad?  (Read 19462 times)

FranceFI

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: France
  • American couple FIREd to France in 2025
    • France-FI
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2025, 05:46:41 AM »
Where?
France - On the coast near Nice
My wife and I just moved here two months ago after a three month visit last year, so still settling in and figuring it all out

Why?
Mediterranean climate, beautiful nature, mountains, sea, accessible public transportation, car free lifestyle, great food, and easy flights from Nice to the rest of Europe
As for why France over Spain, Portugal, Italy, or Croatia:
- The tax treaty for Americans means we won't pay French taxes for 401k withdrawals or passive income under €46,000/yr
- An easy "retirement" visa to qualify for (VLS-TS)
- A path to citizenship and an EU passport after 5 years of residency (straight forward with the VLS-TS visa)
- Better infrastructure and a more developed feel than we got in Italy, Portugal, or Croatia.  We didn't get around to visiting Spain.
- Little to no anti-tourist/digital nomad rhetoric.  The South of France has been a destination for rich foreigners for over a hundred years, and a few new faces is unlikely to shift things.

Positives (immigration process, tax's, health care, COL, diversity, acceptance of foreigners?)?
Low taxes for Americans with the tax treaty, easy visa for early retirees, access to the healthcare system through that visa, path to EU citizenship

Negatives (immigration process, tax's, health care, COL, diversity, acceptance of foreigners)?
Higher COL than similar Mediterranean countries, constantly shifting tax and immigration laws, no visa allowing remote work for those not yet retired, and of course plenty of bureaucracy

Idlewild

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2025, 08:03:03 AM »
We definitely looked at France as a possibility before choosing Portugal. Nice is gorgeous.

Poeirenta

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2025, 09:18:13 AM »
I thought I had chimed in here before but I guess not!

We picked Portugal, moved here with the cat in late 2023. We did two 60+ day scouting trips and found a solid friend group through hiking and volunteering. I think that has made moving here a lot easier.

We also looked at France, and are still keeping it in mind for the tax treaty, especially when our 10 year tax incentive (NHR) runs out. We decided on Portugal for the more lenient time-out-of-country restrictions while pursuing permanent residency and/or citizenship. My understanding is that you need to be in France 10 months out of the year to qualify for PR. The current situation in the US has solidified our desire to pursue EU citizenship.

We'll be going back to the US soon to put our house on the market. Hopefully it will sell quickly. Our biggest unknown is what to do with the proceeds...possibly real estate here, although the Algarve prices aren't a great value these days. Going to take a look at property options in Brittany later this year.

2025 is our first year fully living off our 'stache...great timing, eh? Here's to a big fat cash stash for SORR.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


Idlewild

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2025, 09:41:40 AM »
@Poeirenta, property prices in Portugal are much more affordable outside the Algarve, Lisbon, and Porto. Be sure to explore beautiful Central Portugal! :)

Kapyarn

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2025, 10:01:42 AM »
What do you guys do for healthcare while waiting the 5 years for citizenship?  We currently take a medication that costs $11,000 per treatment in the USA, and have a MRI every 3 months, plus some other stuff.  We pay $2 a month for insurance because of the ACA.

I am going to assume another country wouldn't take us in?

flyingaway

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2025, 11:30:27 AM »
In Italy, houses for €1 are still available.

Poeirenta

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2025, 01:07:11 PM »
@Idlewild , oh I know. We do love exploring Portugal, but we did our time in the wet gray Pacific Northwest so the Algarve is our sunny abode for a while. Though certainly not lately! If it had been like this the first winter we came, we might not have come back a second time. We're in no rush to buy as we have a great rental and landlord, and he has offered us a 3 year lease.

@Kapyarn, we have private insurance (~300/mo) and can also use the public health system now that we have residency. We try to limit our use of the public system for various reasons, but some things have to be done in the public system. DH has a chronic condition; some of what he needs is free here, others we have to pay OOP, at least until he can get a needed piece of equipment from the public system (likely a 2 yr wait). We spent a fair bit of time looking into this before we moved. Labs and imaging are quire affordable; I just had an MRI with contrast and it was 80 euros (225 without insurance).

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


reeshau

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3903
  • Location: Houston, TX Former locations: Detroit, Indianapolis, Dublin
  • FIRE'd Jan 2020
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2025, 02:05:27 PM »
What do you guys do for healthcare while waiting the 5 years for citizenship?  We currently take a medication that costs $11,000 per treatment in the USA, and have a MRI every 3 months, plus some other stuff.  We pay $2 a month for insurance because of the ACA.

I am going to assume another country wouldn't take us in?

Cost differences are astounding, and you shouldn't base it at all off US costs, particularly for drugs.

What you should do is ask directly.  Contact a pharmacy in your target country and ask what the cost is, or make it a stop in your exploration visit.  Same with medical procedures, although you could get a confused answer, as it is typical to say "nothing."

For reference, our private insurance in Ireland had a prescription coverage benefit, 50% of costs...up to 25 euro a year.  We were very worried; we don't have 5-figure drugs, but we have 4-figure ones in the US.  We hardly used up our benefit each year.

Kapyarn

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2025, 05:10:43 PM »
I don't have the exact procedure name in front of me, but it involves cutting apart the skull, lifting out the brain, scrapping the optic nerve, then drilling out some bone around that nerve, then putting everything carefully back in place with titanium plates and screws.

We paid $45 I think.

Idlewild

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2025, 06:13:46 AM »
In Portugal, if you're a legal resident, you can apply for state health care and top that up by buying private insurance, which I recommend. It's still much more affordable than in many other countries. It's much cheaper if you start your private insurance before you turn 60.

Hula Hoop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1776
  • Location: Italy
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2025, 08:08:50 AM »
In Italy, houses for €1 are still available.

This is true but of course these houses generally need a lot of work and are in out of the way villages.  The work can cost a lot.

I live in Italy but am working and we live in a big city.  I speak fluent Italian but even I find organizing builders to work on our apartment to be pretty difficult.  I can't imagine how it would be if you were in a tiny village, didn't speak good Italian (or Sicilian or whatever the local dialect is) and needed building work done without being ripped off.

FIRE 20/20

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2025, 11:35:30 AM »
Good luck with your D7 visa, FIRE 20/20. I'm near Caldas da Rainha in the Oeste region.

Thanks, we just finalized our contract for a property near Ponte de Lima.  I fell in love with the area on our visit.  The property we found is gorgeous, the house is far more than what we need and in impeccable condition, and Ponte de Lima was my favorite town by far that we visited.  I'm really excited!

I am, however, extremely nervous about our D7 Visa application.  Our appointment with VFS Global is in about a month or so in San Francisco.  I'm hoping to move in June/July.  We exceed the requirements, but I can't help but feel really nervous that something is going to go wrong.  For instance, we don't have our Apostilled FBI background checks back yet!  Hopefully they'll arrive before our appointment. 

Kapyarn

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2025, 12:08:35 PM »
This is true but of course these houses generally need a lot of work and are in out of the way villages.  The work can cost a lot.

I live in Italy but am working and we live in a big city.  I speak fluent Italian but even I find organizing builders to work on our apartment to be pretty difficult.  I can't imagine how it would be if you were in a tiny village, didn't speak good Italian (or Sicilian or whatever the local dialect is) and needed building work done without being ripped off.

Are you allowed to do work yourself?  Framing, roofing, electrical, plumbing, drywall, that sort of thing?

Is there some sort of Home Depot in Italy?

Idlewild

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2025, 05:16:10 AM »
@FIRE 20/20, good luck! I came over on a UK passport before Brexit so I didn't have to jump through the same hoops for my visa. But I know lots of Americans living here and it worked out for them! :) I visited Ponte de Lima once and it was gorgeous. Right on the Caminho to Santiago, correct? I think you made an excellent choice! :)

lhamo

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3821
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2025, 09:34:26 AM »
In Italy, houses collapsing piles of stone, brick and timber for €1 are still available.

Fixed that for you.

My brother bought a house in Italy.  Base price was much more than 1 Euro because it was actually renovatable, even considering the gaping holes in the roof.  But the renovation process is VERY time consuming and expensive.  It is beautiful now, but it took them something like 3-4 years to get it to a liveable state, and they probably spent mid six figures on it, if not more. 

Edited to add (after reading the other replies):

The 1 Euro houses are pretty much all in remote hill towns with very little commercial infrastructure left.  That is why thy are selling so cheap -- local governments want to get more people back into the towns so they don't get completely abandoned.

Because of the remote location, you would typically have to drive a LOOONG way to find anything resembling even a small town hardware store, much less a Home Depot.

The bureaucracy is one of the reasons the restoration/building process takes so long there.  MAYBE you could do some of the work yourself, but you would have the extra hassle of figuring out how to get permits and inspections and what not on your own, in a foreign language.  Example of the land use bureaucracy:  after renovating the in town house, my brother and SIL have decided they want someplace that is more age-in-place-able -- this is a hill town, so the house is four stories tall.  They did consider putting an elevator into the house in town, but it wasn't feasible.  So they bought a piece of agricultural land on the edge of town -- it has a nice olive grove on it already, and my brother wants to put in the one kind of grape that will grow there and experiment with wine-making.  They will build a small one-story house to live in as they age on that property.  EXCEPT, in order to get the permits to build anything on agricultural properly, they have to get registered as farmers.  They knew this going in, and are seeing it as part of the adventure, but one of the reasons they were able to get the property for a reasonable price is that most people would not be willing to jump those hoops to get buildable land. 


As far as the actual work goes, what seems to happen in a lot of places (and pretty much what happened with my brother/SIL) is that a few expats find a nice town and settle in/embark on their renovation or rebuilding projects first.  They figure out which contractors are more reliable and do good work, often after a lot of false starts, and then those people become the go-tos for all the expats who come in a bit later.  Typically those guys already had good businesses beforehand (the expats typically find them through local friends), so they have more work than they can handle.  Which means waiting for them, and then scheduling delays when their other multiple projects get backed up for various reasons. 

There are some great Youtube channels of expats restoring properties in Italy -- of course they don't show ALL the headaches and hassles, but it can give you an idea of what is possible on your own if you want to try to attempt it.  It seems to be mostly single guys and couples without kids who take on these kinds of projects.  If you approach it as an adventure it could be great.  Or it could be a disaster.  I haven't watched all of their videos but this channel is pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8R2UodKA1M

If I were younger and wanting to explore something like this, I would probably try to connect with other people who are buying/renovating properties and offer to exchange labor for a place to stay.  Then you can see what it is like and what the problem areas are before you sink your own money into such a project. 

I have told my brother if things go to hell here I'll come and manage their kitchen garden and maybe herd a sheep or goat or two.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2025, 09:55:57 AM by lhamo »

reeshau

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3903
  • Location: Houston, TX Former locations: Detroit, Indianapolis, Dublin
  • FIRE'd Jan 2020
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2025, 05:54:59 AM »
Trentino will pay you to take one of their houses!

BECABECA

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 625
  • Age: 43
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2025, 08:58:51 AM »
Trentino will pay you to take one of their houses!
Seems like a great opportunity for a Mustachian intentional community town… I have a feeling a lot of us would want to move to Italy.

ROF Expat

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 522
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2025, 10:20:29 PM »
Trentino will pay you to take one of their houses!
Seems like a great opportunity for a Mustachian intentional community town… I have a feeling a lot of us would want to move to Italy.

There are a lot of wealthy Italians who live in cities.  The fact that they don't think it is a good idea to buy these properties to fix up as vacation properties or rentals seems significant. 

I have close friends who have bought and renovated properties in rural France and Spain.  They all talked about bureaucracy and high costs.  Some did some DIY work.  The professionals they hired often seemed to be a source of frustration.  I think trying to do a major renovation within a reasonable budget and timeframe without speaking the local language or having any local contacts would be a real challenge.  If that kind of challenge seems like an entertaining way to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and a few years of your life, go for it!  I think it would be a great adventure.  When my spouse retires in a couple of years, I could see us trying something like that (probably in Spain or Latin America, since we both speak Spanish), but I doubt it would be a particularly efficient use of our money.  I envision a cross between "Green Acres" and "The Money Pit" in a foreign language. 

Idlewild

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2025, 01:37:02 PM »
Quote
I have close friends who have bought and renovated properties in rural France and Spain.  They all talked about bureaucracy and high costs.  Some did some DIY work.  The professionals they hired often seemed to be a source of frustration.  I think trying to do a major renovation within a reasonable budget and timeframe without speaking the local language or having any local contacts would be a real challenge.  If that kind of challenge seems like an entertaining way to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and a few years of your life, go for it!  I think it would be a great adventure.  When my spouse retires in a couple of years, I could see us trying something like that (probably in Spain or Latin America, since we both speak Spanish), but I doubt it would be a particularly efficient use of our money.  I envision a cross between "Green Acres" and "The Money Pit" in a foreign language.

Also, in Southern Europe things happen at their own leisurely pace, and Northern European/American "hurry culture" does not exist. You need to be really patient and embrace the slow living vibe. People often don't show up on the agreed date, but somehow manifest three weeks later very early in the morning and wonder why you haven't opened the gate and made them coffee yet. It takes some getting used to! I remember the morning I woke up with eight guys outside our gate to finally install the mains water that they were supposed to install several months ago . . . Every day is a new adventure!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2025, 01:39:36 PM by Idlewild »

Reddleman

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 145
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2025, 01:21:50 PM »
Good luck with your D7 visa, FIRE 20/20. I'm near Caldas da Rainha in the Oeste region.

Just saw this.  My wife is a Portuguese citizen and I'm in my second year waiting for mine to clear.  We just bought an apartment in the Azores (same Island her mother lives on) and plan to move permanently in the next couple of years. 

That said, of everywhere we visited on the mainland, Caldas was our favorite place!  I tried to lobby for a place there, but family kept us in the Azores for now. 

Reddleman

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 145
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2025, 01:25:00 PM »
Where?
France - On the coast near Nice

- The tax treaty for Americans means we won't pay French taxes for 401k withdrawals or passive income under €46,000/yr


Just wondering why under 46k Euro? It was my understanding that for France income was only taxed in the country of origin.  Am I missing something?

FranceFI

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: France
  • American couple FIREd to France in 2025
    • France-FI
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2025, 08:11:10 AM »
Where?
France - On the coast near Nice

- The tax treaty for Americans means we won't pay French taxes for 401k withdrawals or passive income under €46,000/yr


Just wondering why under 46k Euro? It was my understanding that for France income was only taxed in the country of origin.  Am I missing something?

Above 46k Euro of passive income for a couple, France has a 6.5% social charge (CSM) for the medical system.  It is considered a social charge and not a tax so it gets around the tax treaty.

BringFuturamaBack

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2025, 08:51:25 AM »
Just curious. Do you find it affordable/reasonable to live there for 46,000 euro per year?

FranceFI

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: France
  • American couple FIREd to France in 2025
    • France-FI
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2025, 11:19:18 PM »
Yes, €46k will go quite far for a couple.  Price wise I find it similar to lower cost areas of the US like the mid-west or south-east where I used to live, but trade the detached home and two SUVs for a smaller apartment and maybe one economy sized hatchback.  This has been my experience in the Nice area of southern France, one of the more expensive areas outside of Paris:

Housing can be had for cheaper, but it will be much smaller, older, and lower quality fixtures than the US (no dryer, small fridge, no garbage disposal, only split unit AC, etc.).  Unfurnished 1 bedrooms go anywhere from €500/month up to €1500/month here.

Owning a car is expensive here: tolls add a significant cost to roadtrips, gas is more expensive, parking is often not free, and many apartments don't include parking.  But it's 100% feasible to live without a car, especially if you're not commuting daily.  The bus costs €2 or less, the train costs €5-20 and runs every 20 minutes, and it's so easy to walk everywhere when each business isn't separated by a massive parking lot.

Food costs are similar; there's no bulk discount options and meat can be pricey, but the food is higher quality, fresher, and mostly locally grown.  Some random examples: I pay about €13/kg for chicken breast, €3/kg for apples, and €28/kg for salmon (the best tasting salmon I've ever had)

Consumer goods cost about 20% more than the US (before tariffs).  Anything you'd buy on Amazon, in Target, or at the mall, costs about 20%-30% more here.  Mostly due to 20% VAT tax included in the price.  But there is often a local discount version available somewhere, if you know where to look.

People are less consumerist and tend to buy less here, and are more price conscious and averse to wasting money.  In the US it may be seen as normal to run your AC while you're away so your home is cool when you return, buy a bigger car than needed, pay more for brand name clothes or food, or order something on Amazon every week.  But here living a Mustachian life is much more normalized.  There is no stigma about riding the bus, shopping for used items, or cutting costs at the grocery store.

FLBiker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1968
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Canada
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #74 on: April 10, 2025, 10:57:22 AM »
Consumer goods cost about 20% more than the US (before tariffs).  Anything you'd buy on Amazon, in Target, or at the mall, costs about 20%-30% more here.  Mostly due to 20% VAT tax included in the price.  But there is often a local discount version available somewhere, if you know where to look.

People are less consumerist and tend to buy less here, and are more price conscious and averse to wasting money.  In the US it may be seen as normal to run your AC while you're away so your home is cool when you return, buy a bigger car than needed, pay more for brand name clothes or food, or order something on Amazon every week.  But here living a Mustachian life is much more normalized.  There is no stigma about riding the bus, shopping for used items, or cutting costs at the grocery store.

This is very similar to our experience in rural Nova Scotia as well.  The big difference would be that this are very car-centric here.  We are one of the only families I know that have one car.  At the same time, we chose our town because it is extremely walkable and bikeable, so that absolutely is doable.  And we have also absolutely found that people here are very comfortable with thriftiness, and getting things secondhand (or for free).  I've lived in a number of countries over the years, and it's interesting to see how so much of what's considered "normal" in the US is very abnormal globally.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 20613
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #75 on: April 10, 2025, 11:58:45 AM »
Consumer goods cost about 20% more than the US (before tariffs).  Anything you'd buy on Amazon, in Target, or at the mall, costs about 20%-30% more here.  Mostly due to 20% VAT tax included in the price.  But there is often a local discount version available somewhere, if you know where to look.

People are less consumerist and tend to buy less here, and are more price conscious and averse to wasting money.  In the US it may be seen as normal to run your AC while you're away so your home is cool when you return, buy a bigger car than needed, pay more for brand name clothes or food, or order something on Amazon every week.  But here living a Mustachian life is much more normalized.  There is no stigma about riding the bus, shopping for used items, or cutting costs at the grocery store.

This is very similar to our experience in rural Nova Scotia as well.  The big difference would be that this are very car-centric here.  We are one of the only families I know that have one car.  At the same time, we chose our town because it is extremely walkable and bikeable, so that absolutely is doable.  And we have also absolutely found that people here are very comfortable with thriftiness, and getting things secondhand (or for free).  I've lived in a number of countries over the years, and it's interesting to see how so much of what's considered "normal" in the US is very abnormal globally.

This is very true of most of eastern Canada. Frugality is quite the norm among Atlantic Canadians. That's a big part of why I love it out there.

I spend half my year in Newfoundland, and whenever I come back to urban Ontario, the consumerism is a bit of a mindfuck.

FLBiker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1968
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Canada
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2025, 11:55:49 AM »
Consumer goods cost about 20% more than the US (before tariffs).  Anything you'd buy on Amazon, in Target, or at the mall, costs about 20%-30% more here.  Mostly due to 20% VAT tax included in the price.  But there is often a local discount version available somewhere, if you know where to look.

People are less consumerist and tend to buy less here, and are more price conscious and averse to wasting money.  In the US it may be seen as normal to run your AC while you're away so your home is cool when you return, buy a bigger car than needed, pay more for brand name clothes or food, or order something on Amazon every week.  But here living a Mustachian life is much more normalized.  There is no stigma about riding the bus, shopping for used items, or cutting costs at the grocery store.

This is very similar to our experience in rural Nova Scotia as well.  The big difference would be that this are very car-centric here.  We are one of the only families I know that have one car.  At the same time, we chose our town because it is extremely walkable and bikeable, so that absolutely is doable.  And we have also absolutely found that people here are very comfortable with thriftiness, and getting things secondhand (or for free).  I've lived in a number of countries over the years, and it's interesting to see how so much of what's considered "normal" in the US is very abnormal globally.

This is very true of most of eastern Canada. Frugality is quite the norm among Atlantic Canadians. That's a big part of why I love it out there.

I spend half my year in Newfoundland, and whenever I come back to urban Ontario, the consumerism is a bit of a mindfuck.

Interesting.  I definitely don't have enough experience in other areas to know what is "Canadian" vs. what is "Atlantic Canadian".

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 20613
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2025, 12:18:28 PM »
Consumer goods cost about 20% more than the US (before tariffs).  Anything you'd buy on Amazon, in Target, or at the mall, costs about 20%-30% more here.  Mostly due to 20% VAT tax included in the price.  But there is often a local discount version available somewhere, if you know where to look.

People are less consumerist and tend to buy less here, and are more price conscious and averse to wasting money.  In the US it may be seen as normal to run your AC while you're away so your home is cool when you return, buy a bigger car than needed, pay more for brand name clothes or food, or order something on Amazon every week.  But here living a Mustachian life is much more normalized.  There is no stigma about riding the bus, shopping for used items, or cutting costs at the grocery store.

This is very similar to our experience in rural Nova Scotia as well.  The big difference would be that this are very car-centric here.  We are one of the only families I know that have one car.  At the same time, we chose our town because it is extremely walkable and bikeable, so that absolutely is doable.  And we have also absolutely found that people here are very comfortable with thriftiness, and getting things secondhand (or for free).  I've lived in a number of countries over the years, and it's interesting to see how so much of what's considered "normal" in the US is very abnormal globally.

This is very true of most of eastern Canada. Frugality is quite the norm among Atlantic Canadians. That's a big part of why I love it out there.

I spend half my year in Newfoundland, and whenever I come back to urban Ontario, the consumerism is a bit of a mindfuck.

Interesting.  I definitely don't have enough experience in other areas to know what is "Canadian" vs. what is "Atlantic Canadian".

New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, and Newfoundland. The Canadian Maritimes is the same provinces minus Newfoundland.

Idlewild

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2025, 10:42:16 AM »
@Reddleman , I LOVE the Azores! Which island?

Reddleman

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 145
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2025, 06:11:23 PM »
@Reddleman , I LOVE the Azores! Which island?

Terciera.  Wife's dad was from Faial and her mom's from Terciera.  We've visited both of them a few times now. 

I really loved the laid-back nature of Faial (not to mention the views of Pico!), but since her mom moved back to Terciera it made the decision much easier.  It's kind of a "party" island with constant rotation of festivals.  Might be a bit of a challenge for my introverted-ness, but I've been told I can spend some time out on Flores or Corvo if it gets to be too much! 

Idlewild

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2025, 04:21:59 AM »
How cool! I haven't made it there yet, but have fond memories of Faial and Sao Miguel. One day I hope to visit all the islands!

FLBiker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1968
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Canada
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #81 on: April 17, 2025, 08:32:32 AM »
Interesting.  I definitely don't have enough experience in other areas to know what is "Canadian" vs. what is "Atlantic Canadian".

New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, and Newfoundland. The Canadian Maritimes is the same provinces minus Newfoundland.

Ha, sorry -- I meant culturally not geographically.  In other words, I have a sense of my local culture (frugality, kindness, helpfulness, etc.) but I don't know what aspects of that culture are Nova Scotian vs. Atlantic vs. Canadian.  And, obviously, there is tremendous variety within that, but the ambient culture here definitely has a certain feeling that is different than other places I've lived.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 20613
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #82 on: April 17, 2025, 04:01:05 PM »
Interesting.  I definitely don't have enough experience in other areas to know what is "Canadian" vs. what is "Atlantic Canadian".

New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, and Newfoundland. The Canadian Maritimes is the same provinces minus Newfoundland.

Ha, sorry -- I meant culturally not geographically.  In other words, I have a sense of my local culture (frugality, kindness, helpfulness, etc.) but I don't know what aspects of that culture are Nova Scotian vs. Atlantic vs. Canadian.  And, obviously, there is tremendous variety within that, but the ambient culture here definitely has a certain feeling that is different than other places I've lived.

lol, gotcha. Yeah, Atlantic Canada is an entirely different cultural creature from the rest of the country. The rest of Canada is NOT like that.

Captain Cactus

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 589
  • Location: The Land of Steady Habits
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2025, 04:30:37 PM »
Yes, €46k will go quite far for a couple.  Price wise I find it similar to lower cost areas of the US like the mid-west or south-east where I used to live, but trade the detached home and two SUVs for a smaller apartment and maybe one economy sized hatchback.  This has been my experience in the Nice area of southern France, one of the more expensive areas outside of Paris:

Housing can be had for cheaper, but it will be much smaller, older, and lower quality fixtures than the US (no dryer, small fridge, no garbage disposal, only split unit AC, etc.).  Unfurnished 1 bedrooms go anywhere from €500/month up to €1500/month here.

Owning a car is expensive here: tolls add a significant cost to roadtrips, gas is more expensive, parking is often not free, and many apartments don't include parking.  But it's 100% feasible to live without a car, especially if you're not commuting daily.  The bus costs €2 or less, the train costs €5-20 and runs every 20 minutes, and it's so easy to walk everywhere when each business isn't separated by a massive parking lot.

Food costs are similar; there's no bulk discount options and meat can be pricey, but the food is higher quality, fresher, and mostly locally grown.  Some random examples: I pay about €13/kg for chicken breast, €3/kg for apples, and €28/kg for salmon (the best tasting salmon I've ever had)

Consumer goods cost about 20% more than the US (before tariffs).  Anything you'd buy on Amazon, in Target, or at the mall, costs about 20%-30% more here.  Mostly due to 20% VAT tax included in the price.  But there is often a local discount version available somewhere, if you know where to look.

People are less consumerist and tend to buy less here, and are more price conscious and averse to wasting money.  In the US it may be seen as normal to run your AC while you're away so your home is cool when you return, buy a bigger car than needed, pay more for brand name clothes or food, or order something on Amazon every week.  But here living a Mustachian life is much more normalized.  There is no stigma about riding the bus, shopping for used items, or cutting costs at the grocery store.

@FranceFI this is fascinating!  I lived in France for two years when I was younger and I loved it. Been trying to find a way to get back to work but sadly I have always failed in the effort.  That said, we are 6 years to the empty nest, and we will likely be moving at that point.  We are aiming for the south west, likely in the area west, north, and east of Toulouse where real estate tends to be quite affordable.

Would love to hear more about your experiences.

FranceFI

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: France
  • American couple FIREd to France in 2025
    • France-FI
Re: Where did you retire abroad?
« Reply #84 on: June 07, 2025, 08:21:23 AM »
@FranceFI this is fascinating!  I lived in France for two years when I was younger and I loved it. Been trying to find a way to get back to work but sadly I have always failed in the effort.  That said, we are 6 years to the empty nest, and we will likely be moving at that point.  We are aiming for the south west, likely in the area west, north, and east of Toulouse where real estate tends to be quite affordable.

Would love to hear more about your experiences.

We're planning a road trip near there this summer, to see the Pyrenees and the Basque country.  Are you just basing the move off of real estate prices, or is there something else about Toulouse you're interested in?