Author Topic: What to do after FIRE?  (Read 2090 times)

wageslave23

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What to do after FIRE?
« on: August 13, 2018, 09:10:03 AM »
I'm a few years away from FIRE and starting to plan my post career life, but I'm having trouble figuring out what would be fulfilling.  I am a financial advisor and tax professional, so a natural fit would be helping people with their finances.  However, in my experience it is very frustrating because most people who have a lot of money just want more of it so they can spend it and those who are struggling either won't listen to advice or won't follow it.  So its few and far between people who you can make a difference for.  I also have a bachelors in psychology and have a passion to help people in that area, but again I've found that few people have the mental intelligence to grasp, and motivation to implement, the kind of cognitive therapy I would be interested in.  Plus I would have to go to 4+ years of grad school.  Having a strong religious affiliation would help, but I would say my philosophy most closely resembles Stoicism and believe that in the end most of the "issues" facing people and the world don't really matter in the long run anyway. 

Is there a fix to my dilemma or is it a dilemma?  Can I just focus on pursuing different interests and exploring the world around me or will that get old and leave me feeling empty after a few years?  I would appreciate any thoughts from people who are older or have been FIRE'd for awhile. 

begood

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 09:49:41 AM »
If I were you, I'd spend the next few years working on empathy, active listening, and perspective. You have a lot of advantages, and your combination of interest in psychology and financial know-how could be very valuable in making a positive difference in the lives of people less fortunate. But you have to be willing to accept that your success rate will never be 100%. It might be 10%. The 90% may not improve their lives based on your intervention, but imagine how great it would feel to help that 10%.

Have you read @WhiteTrashCash's journal? He explains in vivid detail how people get to the point where they choose immediate gratification over saving for the future; how scarcity can lead to poor decision making; how one impulsive choice can lead to years of struggle. Meeting those people where they are with compassion, open ears, and an open heart should be the goal. It sounds like you're not quite there yet.


wageslave23

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 10:35:08 AM »
If I were you, I'd spend the next few years working on empathy, active listening, and perspective. You have a lot of advantages, and your combination of interest in psychology and financial know-how could be very valuable in making a positive difference in the lives of people less fortunate. But you have to be willing to accept that your success rate will never be 100%. It might be 10%. The 90% may not improve their lives based on your intervention, but imagine how great it would feel to help that 10%.

Have you read @WhiteTrashCash's journal? He explains in vivid detail how people get to the point where they choose immediate gratification over saving for the future; how scarcity can lead to poor decision making; how one impulsive choice can lead to years of struggle. Meeting those people where they are with compassion, open ears, and an open heart should be the goal. It sounds like you're not quite there yet.

I don't know that lack of empathy is my problem, some of the people that I have tried to help are family members who I love a lot.  I feel really bad for them when they are suffering.  Maybe lack of patience is the better diagnosis.  I feel like some people come to me with the same problem on a regular basis.  I give them all kinds of different mental exercises to help them frame their situations in a more helpful way and they don't seem to want to work on it.  The same goes for clients, they say that they want to change their finances and businesses, but then fail to simply respond to an email or phone call on a timely basis - let alone make financial changes.

begood

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 11:12:48 AM »
If I were you, I'd spend the next few years working on empathy, active listening, and perspective. You have a lot of advantages, and your combination of interest in psychology and financial know-how could be very valuable in making a positive difference in the lives of people less fortunate. But you have to be willing to accept that your success rate will never be 100%. It might be 10%. The 90% may not improve their lives based on your intervention, but imagine how great it would feel to help that 10%.

Have you read @WhiteTrashCash's journal? He explains in vivid detail how people get to the point where they choose immediate gratification over saving for the future; how scarcity can lead to poor decision making; how one impulsive choice can lead to years of struggle. Meeting those people where they are with compassion, open ears, and an open heart should be the goal. It sounds like you're not quite there yet.

I don't know that lack of empathy is my problem, some of the people that I have tried to help are family members who I love a lot.  I feel really bad for them when they are suffering.  Maybe lack of patience is the better diagnosis.  I feel like some people come to me with the same problem on a regular basis.  I give them all kinds of different mental exercises to help them frame their situations in a more helpful way and they don't seem to want to work on it.  The same goes for clients, they say that they want to change their finances and businesses, but then fail to simply respond to an email or phone call on a timely basis - let alone make financial changes.

I can definitely see how repeated encounters with people who do not make changes would be super frustrating, especially if they are family members! I wonder if there's a role to play in a nonprofit credit counseling organization (a legit one, not a skeevy one), where you could do an initial analysis and suggest a course of action that would then be followed up with by someone else. You could practice on the Case Studies board right here at MMM. :)

Altons Bobs

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 11:12:57 AM »
It sounds like you're moving towards another career, not FIRE, to me anyway.

You can do whatever you want when you retire, it's whatever that interests you. If only career choices interest you, probably you're not ready to fire yet? I don't know. There are endless possibilities on things to do when  you retire, they don't have to be another career.

wageslave23

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 11:37:16 AM »
It sounds like you're moving towards another career, not FIRE, to me anyway.

You can do whatever you want when you retire, it's whatever that interests you. If only career choices interest you, probably you're not ready to fire yet? I don't know. There are endless possibilities on things to do when  you retire, they don't have to be another career.

I totally agree and my original plan was just seek after whatever interested me at the moment.  I have a lot of interests and hobbies, but almost every blogger, youtuber, philosopher I have come across says that you have to have a purpose, a way of helping others, something you believe you were put on this earth for in order to feel fulfilled/happy.  I wonder if learning new skills, traveling, hobbies etc would start to feel empty after a couple decades.

Altons Bobs

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 11:57:39 AM »
It sounds like you're moving towards another career, not FIRE, to me anyway.

You can do whatever you want when you retire, it's whatever that interests you. If only career choices interest you, probably you're not ready to fire yet? I don't know. There are endless possibilities on things to do when  you retire, they don't have to be another career.

I totally agree and my original plan was just seek after whatever interested me at the moment.  I have a lot of interests and hobbies, but almost every blogger, youtuber, philosopher I have come across says that you have to have a purpose, a way of helping others, something you believe you were put on this earth for in order to feel fulfilled/happy.  I wonder if learning new skills, traveling, hobbies etc would start to feel empty after a couple decades.

You are allowed to have your own identity, you don't have to follow what every blogger, youtuber, philosopher does. You can let yourself be free, it's okay. :-D

We have quite a few retirees in our neighborhood. One of them is a neighbor a few doors down from us. She volunteers on everything, I mean everything. But on some of them, when she feels like she doesn't click with the cause or the people, she quits. That's ok. There is no right or wrong. Some like to travel a lot, and they're happy. So it's whatever that makes you happy, you don't have to follow what everyone else is doing.

Noodle

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 12:14:45 PM »
It sounds like a life purpose based on giving advice is not for you--which is fine...I think it's more unusual to be able to give advice to someone and then not get frustrated when it gets ignored.

What about considering non-profit work, either in your current skill set or something adjacent you could pick up? Non-profits, especially smaller or non-urban ones, are often really hurting for good staff because they can't compete on salary. Program staff will work for smaller salaries, but they have a hard time filling slots in areas like finance or IT where there is a lot of competition from the for-profit world and the work isn't glamorous--and they desperately need the help. Of course, some are deeply dysfunctional workplaces in their own special ways, but there are good ones too (and being FI would mean freedom to keep trying until you find the right fit, or to negotiate for hours and working conditions that suit you.)

Retire-Canada

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2018, 12:27:45 PM »
I wonder if learning new skills, traveling, hobbies etc would start to feel empty after a couple decades.

Only one way to find out for sure.

LoanShark

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2018, 02:25:42 PM »
What are your hobbies? Any activities that you like to do for fun?


Dusty Dog Ranch

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 06:39:57 PM »
Every nonprofit I've worked for has always wanted to have people with financial expertise volunteer on their board of directors, and those folks have always been hard to find. For some reason, there always seem to be plenty of lawyers on boards. I'd rather have someone who can read a financial statement and make informed comments on budgets than someone who enjoys arguing and/or worrying excessively about liability.

BTDretire

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 07:31:28 AM »
 This idea might fit your background.
I've had this fantasy of developing a financial education package for high school students.
 I would develop it so that there is an introduction to a subject, and then finer and finer detail.
This would allow different types of courses or a 10th grade introduction, 11th grade goes into more detail, 
and for 12th grade the student could build a portfolio with reasoned asset allocation.
The student by then would know about the high cost of management fees, risk, would have a minor understanding of the economy and where interest rates are and maybe make a decision about timing to buy a home, should be well versed on living below your means, understands tIRA, Roths, 401k and has gone through several 1040s so they understand how taxes are charged, and how savings can allow you to pay less taxes.
 I'm sure there would be plenty of input from this group.
 

wageslave23

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 08:02:30 AM »
This idea might fit your background.
I've had this fantasy of developing a financial education package for high school students.
 I would develop it so that there is an introduction to a subject, and then finer and finer detail.
This would allow different types of courses or a 10th grade introduction, 11th grade goes into more detail, 
and for 12th grade the student could build a portfolio with reasoned asset allocation.
The student by then would know about the high cost of management fees, risk, would have a minor understanding of the economy and where interest rates are and maybe make a decision about timing to buy a home, should be well versed on living below your means, understands tIRA, Roths, 401k and has gone through several 1040s so they understand how taxes are charged, and how savings can allow you to pay less taxes.
 I'm sure there would be plenty of input from this group.

That would be cool!

BTDretire

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2018, 01:57:41 PM »
This idea might fit your background.
I've had this fantasy of developing a financial education package for high school students.
 I would develop it so that there is an introduction to a subject, and then finer and finer detail.
This would allow different types of courses or a 10th grade introduction, 11th grade goes into more detail, 
and for 12th grade the student could build a portfolio with reasoned asset allocation.
The student by then would know about the high cost of management fees, risk, would have a minor understanding of the economy and where interest rates are and maybe make a decision about timing to buy a home, should be well versed on living below your means, understands tIRA, Roths, 401k and has gone through several 1040s so they understand how taxes are charged, and how savings can allow you to pay less taxes.
 I'm sure there would be plenty of input from this group.

That would be cool!

  After rereading my post, it seems even though developed with High Schoolers in mind, it would
also be valuable information for about 50% of the adult population.

kei te pai

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2018, 02:44:12 PM »
3 years post fire, its a grey wet thursday morning and Im sitting up in bed reading the forum. Its 8.30 and I probably should get up.
You are a human being, you do not have to be a human doing.
If you are organised and self controlled enough to reach FIRE, you are not likely to turn into a TV addicted couch potato when you stop work.
You do not have to plan the rest of your life, you do not need to be driven by a search for self actualization, greater meaning or eternal truth. Eat your vegetables, get some exercise, and be kind to the people around you. Thats about it. The rest will work itself out.

Moustachienne

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Re: What to do after FIRE?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2018, 03:34:07 PM »
Eat your vegetables, get some exercise, and be kind to the people around you. Thats about it. The rest will work itself out.

Hahaha!

One year after FIRE I can say that there is some top level truth telling!  I might make it "get some physical and mental exercise" but otherwise - that is really pretty much it.  It's enough and it's a lot.