Three year post-retirement update

[2sk22]

Its hard to believe that its been three years since I retired so I thought I would jot down a few notes.

1. Happiness
Overall, I am a lot happier after I retired. Not a day goes by when I am not thankful to be retired. That said, I have to agree with research that says that one does get eventually adapted to events, both good and bad. For the first couple of months after I retired, it felt a little unreal but you do get used to it.

This paper
 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352827319302204?via=ihub#!
agrees with my experience:

Affective hedonic adaptation to all positive events occurred by two years but monetary gains and retirement had ongoing benefits on cognitive wellbeing.

2. Family
My immediate family (wife and daughters) have all been very supportive. In return, I have much more time and mental capacity to help them out in various ways. For example, when my older daughter’s apartment developed some serious structural problems, I was able to fly out immediately and help her move.

3. Socializing
I joined a model train club last year and I am glad I did - even though it’s an unpleasant 15 mile drive in heavy traffic. It has genuinely been interesting to get to know the club members and they have been very grateful for the help I have been able to give them with computers ands electronics. Also, they inhabit a different world than the one that I am used to. Although some of them are retired, they have generally not had smooth transitions into retirement - they were generally forced to quit due to health or got laid off. I am a bit a of a curiosity to them since I retired on my own terms when I was younger.

4. Guilt
I thought I would be immune to this but I have to confess that I do feel a twinge of guilt at times which manifests in a couple of ways:
- Having fun on a weekday: Everyone else is at work but here I am having fun on a weekday morning
- Being able to retire early: Especially after getting to know the members of my train club and the various problems they have.

5. Freedom and choice
I was recently offered a position: fully remote, good money and I could set my own hours. I had no problem turning it down. One of the main ways that retirement has changed me is that I have come to enjoy the freedom to do what I want - It’s really hard to imagine working for someone else now.

I do sometimes get paralyzed by choice. I many hobbies and interests but these are all so compelling that I sometimes wind up doing none of them :-) After much trial and error, I have come up with a simple approach to deal with this. I have a simple text file called “What’s next” with a lit of projects and the next few actions for each project - this seems to reduce the friction for getting started.  I am now mostly able to find some project that I want to be doing.  And if nothing appeals to me, that’s fine too. I have learned not to be hard on myself.

6. Asymmetrical retirement
I am retired but my wife is a SWAMI - she likes her work and will likely not retire for another couple of years. But my retirement has not really changed things very much. I am pretty self-contained and can look after myself. I don’t need company all the time - I am pretty happy being by myself at home during the daytime. I mostly worked from home for the last twenty years so I am very used to heading down to my basement after breakfast - only difference is that I do whatever I want nowadays.

It also helps that I am not obsessed by travel. In fact, I would say that I am pretty indifferent to it. I am happy to be at home working on projects but I don’t mind going on trips either. We have done several fun trips after I retired - we had to work around my wife’s schedule but that hasn’t been very hard.

7. Schedule
My schedule has not changed a lot after I retired. I have always gotten up some time between 4am and 5am and I continue to do this. My biggest pleasure every day is doing nothing after lunch. Ever since I can remember, afternoons have been a dead zone. I used to drink a lot of caffeine to keep myself going but not any more. I just relax for a couple of hours doing pretty much nothing - it’s great.

[flyingaway]

Happy to know that you are doing well in your retirement. I am about 2.5 years in retirement and have not made a penny from any work and don't plan to do so. I don't have any schedule, just don't want to have anything reminding me of work.

[Ron Scott]

Graduations! Time does fly…

6 1/2 years in!

I had a great job and enjoyed it very much. I feel the same about retirement. It’s just a continuum for me. It was never a goal. Only a different phase in life.

Happiness? So long as your environment isn’t truly horrendous, happiness is a personal choice. When I get lazy and allow myself a day or two of grouchiness and irritability, I am not happy. When I snap out of it and get back to the normal me, happy as a lark. Retirement didn’t seem to change that one bit thank god.

[2sk22]

Happy to know that you are doing well in your retirement. I am about 2.5 years in retirement and have not made a penny from any work and don't plan to do so. I don't have any schedule, just don't want to have anything reminding me of work.

I'm right with you on that - I also just don't wan't to be even reminded of work!

One of my friends who is a tech VC recently asked me how I could possibly sit out all the excitement in AI. The truth is that I just don't feel motivated to work anymore. I still enjoy writing code for my own projects but I won't do it for anyone else.

I am reminded of a wonderful quote from my favorite book "The soul of a new machine" by Tracy Kidder. This book follows the lives of a  team of developers trying to build a new computer in the early 1980s. One of the team members who quits from burnout says:

I'm going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season

[2sk22]

Happiness? So long as your environment isn’t truly horrendous, happiness is a personal choice. When I get lazy and allow myself a day or two of grouchiness and irritability, I am not happy. When I snap out of it and get back to the normal me, happy as a lark. Retirement didn’t seem to change that one bit thank god.

Interesting how we adapt to free time in different ways! It took a few months for me to discover what really makes me happy: making things with my hands. After I retired, there were a few days when I just passively browsed the web or watched videos. That just made me depressed. I find that even just an hour in my workshop building something can snap me out of a bad mood.

[Metalcat]

I'm closing in on 4 years retired and my DH still works. We're very leanFI and he has a pension, so he'll work another 10 years for government.

I've done my decompression and hobbies and I've learned that the hobbies I enjoy most look a lot like work, lol.

But I loved my career. I studied for over a decade to do it and didn't choose to leave. I was forced to medically retire. As much as I'm happy to be out because it was literally destroying my body, I miss so much of it.

My main hobbies in retirement have been unpaid work, reading educational books, writing, and taking online courses. After a few years of that, I finally figured out that I should just get a new degree and a new body-friendly career and just go back to work, lol.

So for the past nearly 2 years I'm still reading, writing, and taking online courses, and I'm starting my unpaid work in January. But then I'll have a new credential and a whole new career.

DH and I are both work forever people. We LOVE the kind of work we do and it really is our hobby.

I've tried just about everything in my years, and I know what I like. I'm pretty jazzed about starting work next year. But chill, solo, part time work on my own terms.

[weebs]

@2sk22 - It's good to hear that retirement is treating you well and thanks for sharing.  As someone who is looking to pull the plug in a couple years, it's helpful to read about your experiences over the last 3 years.  As a techie, I think it's interesting that you mention AI.  I would have been all in 20 years ago and pushed hard to come up to speed in the field.  I find it interesting, but I just can't find the energy to devote much time to learning/reading about it.  Throughout my career I've pushed hard to stay current and keep my skills sharp, but it just feels like I'm out of gas.

Has inflation over the last couple years changed your plans?  I definitely thought about punching out after reading some of the responses to my initial case study 18 months ago, but I'm glad I didn't.

DH and I are both work forever people. We LOVE the kind of work we do and it really is our hobby.

I admire people in your position.  I like what I do (mostly), but the thought of doing it forever fills me with dread.

[FireLane]

Congrats on the milestone! I'm just entering my third year of retirement.

I know the feeling about being paralyzed by choice. There are so many things I want to do with all my free time, and I struggle to not overschedule myself. It's a challenge to leave time for leisure when I have so many projects. I like your idea about the "what's next" file.

I am reminded of a wonderful quote from my favorite book "The soul of a new machine" by Tracy Kidder. This book follows the lives of a  team of developers trying to build a new computer in the early 1980s. One of the team members who quits from burnout says:

I'm going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season

Fantastic quote! I'm going to remember that one.

[Metalcat]

DH and I are both work forever people. We LOVE the kind of work we do and it really is our hobby.

I admire people in your position.  I like what I do (mostly), but the thought of doing it forever fills me with dread.

To be fair, I've spent my entire life figuring out what work I want to do most, studied forever to do it, did it, had to stop, had to regroup and figure out what else I wanted to do, study again, and start again. It hasn't exactly been an efficient path.

I never aimed to have a "good job" and make "good money," which is why I have a hell of a lot less money than I would have had I made what most people would consider smarter choices. Had I not pursued my passions, I would have been able to retire in my 30s quite wealthy. Instead I'm 41 and DH is 50 and we're very leanFI.

So there are pros and cons. But I haven't been bored with work since I was 19 working in mall retail and I've done some mindblowingly cool shit along the way.

[2sk22]

@2sk22 - It's good to hear that retirement is treating you well and thanks for sharing.  As someone who is looking to pull the plug in a couple years, it's helpful to read about your experiences over the last 3 years.  As a techie, I think it's interesting that you mention AI.  I would have been all in 20 years ago and pushed hard to come up to speed in the field.  I find it interesting, but I just can't find the energy to devote much time to learning/reading about it.  Throughout my career I've pushed hard to stay current and keep my skills sharp, but it just feels like I'm out of gas.

Has inflation over the last couple years changed your plans?  I definitely thought about punching out after reading some of the responses to my initial case study 18 months ago, but I'm glad I didn't.

DH and I are both work forever people. We LOVE the kind of work we do and it really is our hobby.

I admire people in your position.  I like what I do (mostly), but the thought of doing it forever fills me with dread.

I worked mostly in AI for the past 15 years and actually did one of the first ever PhDs on neural networks back in the early 1990s (I deliberately stay slightly ambiguous to avoid doxing myself). I agree that it is a struggle to keep up with the latest advances. That despair was one of the reasons for my quitting early.

Also, I don't feel proud of the applications to which some of my work has been applied such as trying to replacing low-paid receptionists with AI. It's more than a little ridiculous how much I got paid for knowing a little linear algebra and calculus. After so many years in the field, I am heartily sick of it and prefer learning about human cognition.

Regarding inflation, I have to frankly say that it hasn't been much of a concern. We have saved such a ridiculously large stache that my main worry is gigantic RMDs. My hobbies are very inexpensive as you can see in my journal :-)

[2sk22]

Congrats on the milestone! I'm just entering my third year of retirement.

I know the feeling about being paralyzed by choice. There are so many things I want to do with all my free time, and I struggle to not overschedule myself. It's a challenge to leave time for leisure when I have so many projects. I like your idea about the "what's next" file.

Thanks! I am very interested to hear that you also struggle with the problem of nearly unlimited choice. I read a lot about retirement before I actually retired and did not come across any reference to this in all my reading. Mostly the books just exhort retirees to develop some interests at all :-)

[Metalcat]

Congrats on the milestone! I'm just entering my third year of retirement.

I know the feeling about being paralyzed by choice. There are so many things I want to do with all my free time, and I struggle to not overschedule myself. It's a challenge to leave time for leisure when I have so many projects. I like your idea about the "what's next" file.

Thanks! I am very interested to hear that you also struggle with the problem of nearly unlimited choice. I read a lot about retirement before I actually retired and did not come across any reference to this in all my reading. Mostly the books just exhort retirees to develop some interests at all :-)

N'ah, I relate as well. It took awhile for me to not feel the weight of all of the things I *could* do.

[2sk22]

N'ah, I relate as well. It took awhile for me to not feel the weight of all of the things I *could* do.

Every month, I get a printed catalog from a company called Micromark that sells tools and supplies for modelers and crafters. Earlier today, I was looking at a gorgeous kit for building a scale model of a schooner. I was tempted to order the kit for a couple of seconds and then I looked at my "What's next" list which is already overflowing with stuff. So I went and dumped the catalog in recycling :-)

[weebs]

So there are pros and cons. But I haven't been bored with work since I was 19 working in mall retail and I've done some mindblowingly cool shit along the way.

Way cool.  To me, that's a more meaningful measure of success.

I worked mostly in AI for the past 15 years and actually did one of the first ever PhDs on neural networks back in the early 1990s...

That's awesome.  It sounds like you finished up shortly before I started.  I only did my BS.  I got a job writing code while I was still in school and was seduced by the siren song of a good paycheck.

Also, I don't feel proud of the applications to which some of my work has been applied such as trying to replacing low-paid receptionists with AI

I feel you.  I've spent most of the last 15 years focused on automation.  Shortly after getting hired on at my current employer, I demo'd a prototype for my boss and his response was something along the lines of "That's great...I can let go of Dave".  It's only a matter of time before I'm 'Dave'.

[FireLane]

Thanks! I am very interested to hear that you also struggle with the problem of nearly unlimited choice. I read a lot about retirement before I actually retired and did not come across any reference to this in all my reading. Mostly the books just exhort retirees to develop some interests at all :-)

Ha! I don't know who those books are aimed at. I can't relate to that problem at all.

In the last few years before I retired, I put together a bucket list of all the things I wanted to do. Two-plus years in, I've barely scratched the surface. It's going to be a lifelong project, and even so, I probably won't get to all of them.

It feels condescending to say, but... if someone has the whole world to explore, and all they want to do is sit on the couch watching TV, they must lead a small and sad life. There's so much amazing stuff to see and do!

[Metalcat]

So there are pros and cons. But I haven't been bored with work since I was 19 working in mall retail and I've done some mindblowingly cool shit along the way.

Way cool.  To me, that's a more meaningful measure of success.

I always knew I didn't want kids, so I had a lot more freedom and flexibility to focus on my own life satisfaction. I could pick up and move to a new city for school, I could then pick up and move for work. I could dedicate 80-100hrs/week for school and then give everything I had to my career.

I did the heaviest lifting in those years where women typically need to make hard choices because of fertility.

If my goal had been to get married, have kids by a certain age, and provide them with a stable, secure life, I would have made very different decisions.

Not that folks with kids don't make the same career choices I have, they do, but they often pay dearly for it. They also usually start down the path younger than I did.

I took my time and tried out everything I could possibly be interested in before coming to a decision about what to do. Even after I retired and had a very obvious plan of what to do next, I spent two years trying things and seeing if it's what I *really* wanted to do with my time and energy.

I take spending my time and energy resources very, very seriously.

[shrimpwd]

and all they want to do is sit on the couch watching TV,

It's been a little under a year for me, but the urge to sit on the back porch and read a book is strong most days. 3 years of 60 hr/week retail at the end made me want to slow down. I'd still love to go hiking and travel a bit, but to relax and enjoy the scenery is also amazing.

[Moustachienne]

Yeah, the amount of books and blogs exhorting retirees to do something, anything is crazy.  All hail the great god "busy"!   

I heard a great line from a freelance counselor facilitating "handling stress" workshops. When she was asked if she was busy, she would reply "I'm as busy as I want to be". Her mission was to show us that we had more choices than we thought in how we spent our time on the job and in life, and in how we described it to ourselves and others. But she was fighting uphill against the cult of busy!

I've been enjoying posts about "simple and unbusy retirement" from this blog - https://www.crestingthehill.com.au/search/label/simple%20slow%20unbusy

I feel the pressure of too many choices and too many things I want to do, which ends up being demotivating. The Depth Year idea and follow up is very helpful for me - https://www.raptitude.com/2018/12/why-the-depth-year-was-my-best-year/

[Cassie]

I retired at 58 and 11 years later I have worked part time 8 of those years. I taught an online college class for 8 years and consult in my field. I absolutely love evaluating clients and writing reports to help them obtain their vocational goals. I will work as long as I enjoy it.

I had a late start to my career staying home with 3 kids until the youngest started school and then having obtained a BA, MSW and working 4 years in that field. Then went back to school for another master’s and PhD. I book my own clients and set my own schedule so it’s perfect.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

I retired at 58 and 11 years later I have worked part time 8 of those years. I taught an online college class for 8 years and consult in my field. I absolutely love evaluating clients and writing reports to help them obtain their vocational goals. I will work as long as I enjoy it.

I had a late start to my career staying home with 3 kids until the youngest started school and then having obtained a BA, MSW and working 4 years in that field. Then went back to school for another master’s and PhD. I book my own clients and set my own schedule so it’s perfect.

@Cassie

MSW is master's social work?  I've considered going back for this.  Leaning towards Master's certification in non profit management.  Would it be worthwhile for a former accountant who wants to 'do well by doing good' but only at a maximum of 40 hours per week?

[JupiterGreen]

Excellent, I love these updates. Clever strategy with the "what's next" list!

[Cassie]

I retired at 58 and 11 years later I have worked part time 8 of those years. I taught an online college class for 8 years and consult in my field. I absolutely love evaluating clients and writing reports to help them obtain their vocational goals. I will work as long as I enjoy it.

I had a late start to my career staying home with 3 kids until the youngest started school and then having obtained a BA, MSW and working 4 years in that field. Then went back to school for another master’s and PhD. I book my own clients and set my own schedule so it’s perfect.

@Cassie

MSW is master's social work?  I've considered going back for this.  Leaning towards Master's certification in non profit management.  Would it be worthwhile for a former accountant who wants to 'do well by doing good' but only at a maximum of 40 hours per week?

Yes it’s a master’s in social work. When I worked for the state part of my job was career counseling. My state had something called the Nevada Career Information System which gave the job outlook, educational requirements and the type of experience needed and pay for various occupations. You should look and see if your state has something similar because it should be available for anyone to use. That would give you an idea if either masters degree is valuable in your area.

Once you have the masters and a SW license you can work in many positions. If you want to be a therapist many hours of clinical practice are necessary as well as passing either state or national licensing exams. In some states the MSW is very valuable and others not so much. Don’t depend on the university’s statistics for job placement results because some count every student that finds a job even if it’s not in their field.

[2sk22]

Excellent, I love these updates. Clever strategy with the "what's next" list!

Glad you liked my post - I was wondering if anyone would find it useful since it lacks drama :-)

To retain my sanity, I find it necessary to stay away from most social media and news on the web. Which is why I try to keep myself immersed in my hobbies as much as possible. Thats what led to the "What's next" file.

[2sk22]

I retired at 58 and 11 years later I have worked part time 8 of those years. I taught an online college class for 8 years and consult in my field. I absolutely love evaluating clients and writing reports to help them obtain their vocational goals. I will work as long as I enjoy it.

I had a late start to my career staying home with 3 kids until the youngest started school and then having obtained a BA, MSW and working 4 years in that field. Then went back to school for another master’s and PhD. I book my own clients and set my own schedule so it’s perfect.

Nothing wrong with continuing to work in a field you so clearly like! In my case, I was completely burnt out from professional software development so I was eager to retire.

[spartana]

Congrats!! Always nice to hear stories from Other happy and fulfilled FIREees. Keep the updates coming.

[2sk22]

Congrats!! Always nice to hear stories from Other happy and fulfilled FIREees. Keep the updates coming.

Thanks - not a day goes by when I'm not happy to be retired :-)

[Jack0Life]

I chuckled at #4 on your list.
Why would you have guilt during retirement ??
I mean "did you win a lottery" or "receive a huge inheritance" ? NO, I'm pretty sure you worked hard, save and wisely invest your money like the rest of us right ??
If you did all those right things, then why feel guilty.
I actually feel the opposite, especially at my work place.
They all have the same job, make the same money, why aren't they FIRE like I am ? I didn't do anything special. Except no spend foolishly like most of them do.
Nah, zero guilt for me.

[2sk22]

I chuckled at #4 on your list.
Why would you have guilt during retirement ??
I mean "did you win a lottery" or "receive a huge inheritance" ? NO, I'm pretty sure you worked hard, save and wisely invest your money like the rest of us right ??
If you did all those right things, then why feel guilty.
I actually feel the opposite, especially at my work place.
They all have the same job, make the same money, why aren't they FIRE like I am ? I didn't do anything special. Except no spend foolishly like most of them do.
Nah, zero guilt for me.

I was thinking about this recently. If you want to retire early, you have to be frugal and save and invest but you also need some luck:
- Having financial alignment with your spouse.
- Not having health problems (both physical and mental).
- Having a steady income.
- Making enough so you can save and invest.

I know we worked really hard to get where we are but I think the guilt comes from acknowledging that luck played a part. One incident comes to mind.

About thirty years ago, when I started working, we were living in NY City on the upper west side. I was walking down Broadway and randomly bought a few used books from a seller on the sidewalk (this used to be pretty common back then). One of the books was the Wall Street Journal's Guide to Personal Finances.

I read the book cover to cover and it was a complete revelation. I was completely clueless about money at that point - I had just been putting my 401K contributions into a money market fund! I immediately maxed out my 401K and switched to an index fund, opened a brokerage account and started shoveling extra money into it. And 28 years later, I was able to retire. Wonder what would have happened if I hadn't bought that book.

[GilesMM]

I'm nearing the three-year retirement mark as well and have similar observations. 


I  was recently lured out of retirement for a flexible management consulting gig which I agreed to because 1) the project, client and location are fascinating to me and I neatly fill a huge gap it the team expertise, 2) I am allowed to work on it as and when it suits me and never have to deal with normal work BS (I basically just give my opinion when asked), and 3) the location is on the opposite side of the planet so the travel add-ons are almost infinite.  I have already done side trips to Cyprus and Dubai. Next up Oman, Goa and Europe.  When the rainy winter weather at home turns mild in spring I will either quit the project or raise my rates high enough that I can't refuse it.  We will earmark all the income from the project for future travel splurges.  Downsides to this arrangement: jet lag, spouse handling home affairs while I'm away (3-5 weeks at a time), autistic dog.

[2sk22]

I'm nearing the three-year retirement mark as well and have similar observations. 


I  was recently lured out of retirement for a flexible management consulting gig which I agreed to because 1) the project, client and location are fascinating to me and I neatly fill a huge gap it the team expertise, 2) I am allowed to work on it as and when it suits me and never have to deal with normal work BS (I basically just give my opinion when asked), and 3) the location is on the opposite side of the planet so the travel add-ons are almost infinite.  I have already done side trips to Cyprus and Dubai. Next up Oman, Goa and Europe.  When the rainy winter weather at home turns mild in spring I will either quit the project or raise my rates high enough that I can't refuse it.  We will earmark all the income from the project for future travel splurges.  Downsides to this arrangement: jet lag, spouse handling home affairs while I'm away (3-5 weeks at a time), autistic dog.

Thats a pretty cushy assignment. Before I retired, I thought it might be fun to work in part-time job like yours. But once I retired, I decided I like independence so much that I am just ruined for any kind of work. My wife on the other hand is a bit of a workaholic and will likely look for some kind of a consulting position - she is an expert in her field.

[FireLane]

About thirty years ago, when I started working, we were living in NY City on the upper west side. I was walking down Broadway and randomly bought a few used books from a seller on the sidewalk (this used to be pretty common back then). One of the books was the Wall Street Journal's Guide to Personal Finances.

I read the book cover to cover and it was a complete revelation. I was completely clueless about money at that point - I had just been putting my 401K contributions into a money market fund! I immediately maxed out my 401K and switched to an index fund, opened a brokerage account and started shoveling extra money into it. And 28 years later, I was able to retire. Wonder what would have happened if I hadn't bought that book.

Isn't it funny how a chance event can totally change the course of your life?

I had a similar moment. In my case, it was a news article in 2015 about Mr. Money Mustache. I was always pretty frugal, but I knew almost nothing about investing. That article hit me like a bolt from the blue. It explained the concept of FIRE and the math behind it in a way that made it seem so obvious, I was kicking myself for not figuring it out on my own.

If I hadn't stumbled across that article, I might still be working today, instead of being two and a half years into retirement. It's shocking how easy it is to go through life without learning this stuff. I learned more about economics and finance from the MMM blog, these forums and some other FIRE blogs than I did from high school, college and grad school combined.

[2sk22]

...
If I hadn't stumbled across that article, I might still be working today, instead of being two and a half years into retirement. It's shocking how easy it is to go through life without learning this stuff. I learned more about economics and finance from the MMM blog, these forums and some other FIRE blogs than I did from high school, college and grad school combined.

Although that book on personal finances put us firmly on the path to FI, I have to thank Mr Money Mustache for the second revelation which was the "RE" part 😀

After a particularly frustrating time at work in 2017, I came across his blog and then got introduced to the idea of FIRE. After diving deep into FIRE blogs and Bogleheads, it slowly dawned on me that we were already FI by any standard I could quit anytime I wanted. It still took a couple of years before I retired though. I had to get my financial stuff into order  (consolidating accounts and canceling a ridiculous whole life policy) and get used to the idea of retirement.