Thinking about a post-FIRE employment opportunity

[Blackeagle]

Earlier this year I FIREd to pursue a hobby job as a whitewater rafting guide (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/found-my-hobby-job-and-fired/msg3012570/#msg3012570).

Recently, a potential opportunity landed in my lap: a small company looking for someone with the intersection of three pretty specialized skillsets.  I check all three boxes and a mutual acquaintance recommended me to them.  I’m dedicated to being a river guide, so I’m not looking for full-time work, but guiding is a seasonal gig.  I told them I’d only be interested in something part-time, and only until the next rafting season (the company is already 100% remote, so no need to insist on that). 

I was a bit surprised that they seem not just amenable, but downright enthusiastic about hiring me on those terms.  They potentially need someone for a limited-duration project that really fits the bill.  Not a done deal yet, but it seems like this could turn into a solid offer within the next week.

In that case, I’ll actually have to decide whether this is something I want to do.  As I consider the possibility I’m finding that my feelings vary depending on how I frame it in my mind:

If I think about it as, “going back to work,” there’s a little voice in the back of my head saying that “unretiring” like this represents a FIRE failure (though real Internet Retirement Police might already say I failed at FIRE because I’m making a bit of money from the river guide work). 

On the other hand, if I think about this as the common FIRE contingency plan of going back to work in the event of a downturn it doesn’t sting as much.  There’s some truth to that framing too; I don’t know that I’d be as interested in this opportunity if the market were higher and inflation was lower. 

Maybe the most encouraging framing is MMM’s idea that once you achieve FIRE, opportunities to earn some extra money tend to drop into your lap.  This definitely fits that mold as well.

Finally, thinking about this from a different perspective, some sort of off-season work is completely normal for a river guide.  Working on ski patrol during the winter is pretty common enough to be almost stereotypical, but I’ve met others who do everything from bookkeeping to apartment maintenance, to renovating houses when they’re not on the water.

I’m curious how other FIREees might have thought about opportunities like this.

[dandarc]

Make sure you price in "I don't need any job at all" in the negotiations if you decide to do it. Crazy how much people will pay you and put up with other stuff when they know you really, truly, do not need the money.

[logjammin]

Tough call! Whether or not to go through with it varies by person obviously, but here are my thoughts.

Don't work:
I'm also FIREd, for 18 months now. One of the nicest things about being fired is the pro/con balance. Maybe 100% literally, the ONLY con is I don't get paid money anymore -- which isn't all that huge of a con because I don't "need" money and I'm not even fully convinced more money would make me happier.

Work
Contrast that with working again, even part time. There are definite pros, but there are also very real cons, even if you like the job. "Having" to wake up, report to work, appease a boss, appease clients. Even if you try to half-ass it, everyone has at least some part of their brain that feels pressure to perform well, do a good job, push yourself, etc.

My verdict: I think it comes down to, can you take this job with 1. a minimum of stress and 2. an easy opt-out strategy if you find you don't like it. Doing something, finding it sucks and isn't what you hoped, and quitting is often actually a good thing in disguise, because at least you learned and you got to experience something. new. Would this be like that? Or would this be something you'd potentially actually regret?

There's no way to know of course. But at least for me, it comes mostly down to, does the benefit of trying something new and getting paid to do it, outweigh the cons of it potentially being not fun and a return to the prior crummy days of working.

Sorry, to be honest, that all just seems like a long way of saying "who knows."

[Fru-Gal]

Having gone through something like this debate based on my unique skill set I have an opinion. If you were going to find the money sufficient and the actual work interesting then you might as well do it. But if it’s going to re-introduce you to stressors and corporate inefficiencies or a career or profession you’re no longer interested in I’d say skip it.

[Blackeagle]

2. an easy opt-out strategy if you find you don't like it. Doing something, finding it sucks and isn't what you hoped, and quitting is often actually a good thing in disguise, because at least you learned and you got to experience something. new.

Good insight there.  One of the things that appeals to me about this possibility is having an end date built into it.  Of course, having FU money means I could walk away at any time, but having a built-in stopping point has the advantage of forcing me to make a decision rather than just continuing due to inertia.

[Blackeagle]

Make sure you price in "I don't need any job at all" in the negotiations if you decide to do it.  Crazy how much people will pay you and put up with other stuff when they know you really, truly, do not need the money.

Definitely!  It’s already played a role: I made clear from the beginning that the only way I’d do this is to do it part-time and outside the rafting season.  Honestly, I was a bit shocked when they came right back to continue pursuing me after I laid those cards on the table.  Crazy indeed.

[Omy]

I would go back to work if:

1) I thought I'd enjoy the work, or
2) I felt like I needed the money or healthcare benefits.

Anything else would be ego driven or selling my precious time for money I don't need.

These type of opportunities have fallen into my lap a few times in the past 3 years of being FIREd, and I expect to have future opportunities. Each time I've been flattered to be considered, but I quickly realize these opportunities don't meet the above criteria and I graciously decline.

[Blackeagle]

Having gone through something like this debate based on my unique skill set I have an opinion. If you were going to find the money sufficient and the actual work interesting then you might as well do it. But if it’s going to re-introduce you to stressors and corporate inefficiencies or a career or profession you’re no longer interested in I’d say skip it.

This brings up a couple of interesting considerations.  First, I didn’t really FIRE because I was no longer interested in my career.  I FIREd because I found something I was more interested in (being a river guide).  Absent that, I probably would have been content to keep working towards an ever-fatter FIRE for at least a few more years.  I should probably take that into account thinking about opportunities like this.  As long as it doesn’t detract from the river guide work that persuaded me to FIRE in the first place, maybe I should be more open to work opportunities than someone who FIREd to get away from their previous job or the working world in general.

Second, part of what tweaked my interest in this job is that it would actually be pretty different than what I was doing pre-FIRE.  It would be in the private sector rather than quasi-governmental.  It would also be more technical than my previous job (avoiding the compliance, public meetings, and dealing with elected officials and government staff aspects that sometimes frustrated me about the old job) as well as giving me a chance to exercise some skills that I really haven’t used since grad school.  Actually, I might have found this oppurtunity interesting even if I were still working at the old job (probably not enough to overcome the aforementioned inertia, but still).

[bmjohnson35]

Having gone through something like this debate based on my unique skill set I have an opinion. If you were going to find the money sufficient and the actual work interesting then you might as well do it. But if it’s going to re-introduce you to stressors and corporate inefficiencies or a career or profession you’re no longer interested in I’d say skip it.

This brings up a couple of interesting considerations.  First, I didn’t really FIRE because I was no longer interested in my career.  I FIREd because I found something I was more interested in (being a river guide).  Absent that, I probably would have been content to keep working towards an ever-fatter FIRE for at least a few more years.  I should probably take that into account thinking about opportunities like this.  As long as it doesn’t detract from the river guide work that persuaded me to FIRE in the first place, maybe I should be more open to work opportunities than someone who FIREd to get away from their previous job or the working world in general.

Second, part of what tweaked my interest in this job is that it would actually be pretty different than what I was doing pre-FIRE.  It would be in the private sector rather than quasi-governmental.  It would also be more technical than my previous job (avoiding the compliance, public meetings, and dealing with elected officials and government staff aspects that sometimes frustrated me about the old job) as well as giving me a chance to exercise some skills that I really haven’t used since grad school.  Actually, I might have found this oppurtunity interesting even if I were still working at the old job (probably not enough to overcome the aforementioned inertia, but still).

First of all, going back to work is not a FIRE failure........if it's due to personal interest and not necessity.  It sounds like it does interest you, it won't interfere with your rafting guide gig and it's relatively short-term........sounds like an obvious choice to me.

[Rubyvroom]

As a person who just recently went back myself (I wasn't looking, I too was contacted), my advice would be to not worry at all about categorization or perception of what working again might mean to you or others. Worry more about whether or not you are ok with another person's/people's priorities constantly interrupting your own.

Also, price it like you don't want it - they'll likely pay.

Last, be ready for scope creep... they may say all the right things about flexibility just to get you to join them but when it comes down to actually granting you those things, they may take a less flexible stance. If you're an employee it's easy enough to just walk in that situation, but if you're contracting, make sure your contract allows you to exit for any reason with a notice term that's acceptable to you.

Every day except payday I pretty much regret going back, even though I enjoy the people and the work isn't terribly hard. I just miss the freedom. I really love the cash infusion right now though. We blew our budget this year so it's helping to right the ship.

[Ladychips]

I'm a card-carrying member on the IRP, and I think it sounds like a great opportunity. It uses your unique skill set, does so in a new way, meets your needs for flexibility, and is of a finite duration. Money is an extra perk.

Why wouldn't you try it? If you don't like it, you can either grit it out for the short term or walk away. You hold all the cards.

On a side note, I'd love an update/details on the river gig!! I can't believe I'm the only one...

[NoEllipsis]

I retired 18 months ago. I was working in software before I retired but I found a part time seasonal job working with wildlife a month ago that I thought just sounded too interesting to pass up. Because of my volunteer work with animals I was able to get the job. It's 6 hours a day and 5 days a week (more days than I would like), but it's SEASONAL. I really like getting to work with racoons, opossums, bottle feeding squirrels, herding ducks. It's wild[life], I never completely know what my day will be like but it's fun to get to do something that I enjoy and knowing there's an end date makes it easy to not get frustrated or mad at inconveniences of the job.

You sound like you have a similar situation, you get to do something you love, you get to be outdoors, meet new people, teach some people some new stuff, get some exercise built into the job. Sure there's probably some not as fun parts to the job such as making meals for the groups that are rafting, worrying about peoples safety and what not. But it's something you think you'll like. I say this is the perfect opportunity to go for it.

Best case scenario: you love it and want to keep doing it for a few more seasons.

Middle case scenario: you think it's kinda fun, you enjoy parts of it but there are some parts you don't love but it's really not that bad. You stick it out the season and have some stories to tell in the future about being a rafting guide.

Worst case scenario: It sucks, you don't like it, and unfortunately have to quit. It's a job, people quit jobs, there's always someone looking for a summer gig who needs it. Businesses deal with people quitting gigs all the time, they will deal with it.


From my experience so far, I really love parts of my seasonal job. I'm highly considering going back next year but the season does go throughout all the summer when I would normally do a bunch of other camping trips. So I'm conflicted only because I have some other random vacations that I might need to reconsider.

I vote that you try it :)

[ChpBstrd]

I'm reading a lot about how they need you, but the best reason you have for doing the job is that it's interesting.

Well, being retired is interesting too.

If you are significantly less than 25x now and you'd like to solidify your retirement, this is definitely a good deal. If your portfolio is fine, and another 25% drop wouldn't phase you, then maybe reconsider it.