Author Topic: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?  (Read 10748 times)

andkar

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The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« on: January 16, 2024, 11:33:30 AM »
Hello!

It's almost six years since my girlfriend and I FIREd and it's been six amazing years. The nine years I focused on the goal felt so long, but now time flies. The only downside, really.

In May 2018 we left Sweden and traveled around Europe, loving every moment and each other. Our spending has been in line with our SWR, about $3000 USD per month (*) and today we have about a $100k more than when we FIREd.

Before I became a mustachian my idea of how much I made was the paycheck, but then I realized the amount didn't matter if I had zero to show for it at the end of the month and “how much I made” became equivalent to how much I saved. Now, the SWR is what I consider my income.

For two years we traveled before the pandemic hit and we got stuck in an apartment in Portugal. A nice apartment for sure, and due to the sudden death of tourism we got it for a quarter of the usual rent. In quarantine I killed time cooking and I transformed from someone who viewed food just as sustenance into someone who enjoyed spending time creating a tasty meal. Having a great apartment in Algarve eating great food is probably one of the better ways to endure a pandemic, but we still got frustrated and after about a year we needed to do something different. Something completely different.

In 2021 we applied for work in northern Sweden, above the arctic circle. Despite being Swedish we had never been further north than a third of our own country and Lapland was totally foreign to us. A different culture and a different climate. We weren't sure how we would handle the darkness and the cold. It turned out to be an amazing experience and we are currently working a winter season (november-march) for a second time.

We are working at an upscale hotel / restaurant. I am working at the activity / information desk and my gf is a guest host, making sure the guests gets dressed in warm clothing, starting the fire, being an all around caretaker. Compared to my prior work as an IT-consultant, it's like night and day and there's been quite a few realizations. First, the pay is $15/hour, as close to minimum wage you can get around here, and I only work 70% which makes my net pay rather low to say the least. The guests are almost always happy, in stark contrast to the eternal complaints in my previous career. However, some conduct that would have resulted in a police report in other fields are tolerated, including staff issues. In IT, most of my coworkers personalities were somewhat similar compared to the wide range of different people I have learned to know in the service industry. At first I was a bit shocked about how disorganized everything was compared to my previous jobs, but after a season I have learned how they view the guest experience above all and things like the horrible software they use and staff issues comes a distant second. It has been interesting, to say the least. My boss actually told me I am the best recruitment she has ever done! Apparently finding mature people with life experience to work for minimum wage north of the arctic circle isn't easy. Who would have thought?

While the pay is low, the job comes with a lot of perks. The staff food (a first for me) is the same excellent food served for lunch in the fancy restaurant. I get deducted $5 for the food but I eat on paid time (another first) so I practically get paid to eat. I also am a friend with the chefs, so I often get served on off days as well. The hotel provide a small room for me and my GF with shared kitchen and while $330/month is a bit much for what you get it is still just a third of what we usually spend on lodging. Rent includes utilities and everything you'd need, the only thing I need to pay for is detergent.

Then there are the excursions. Since I sell them I get to do them for free and I use this opportunity to the fullest. I don't keep exact count but I think we have done about $8000 worth of excursions so far, and that doesn't include the fact that I get to be here and experience Lapland, which is usually not the cheapest vacation people can have.

Despite making so little money, I still manage to save about half of my income. I must say a lot more of my coworkers here seem to handle money well and saves despite their low pay, compared to my IT-friends, who spend a ton on expensive stuff. But then again, there are also plenty in the other extreme, being indebted and digging the hole deeper by gambling, drinking and doing drugs. As I said, it's been interesting!

I could probably save even more if I cut down on beer, as I really don't have any expenses at all except breakfast and detergent.

It “feels” like I make an additional $3000/month since I am not withdrawing any money. Also, due to how the taxes work in Sweden, I work so little in a calendar year that I never reach the point where I own the government any money. The taxes my employer pays goes directly into reducing my tax-debt from my capital gains, which makes it feel like I am making even more money!

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Life is great is what I am trying to say.

Cheers!

(*) I'll use USD for simplicity, trying to be as correct as possible with the exchange rate at the time mentioned. For instance, I was making about 500k SEK final year of working which then translated to ~80k USD but today sounds a lot less since the same amount in SEK gets you less than 50k USD.



Learning to cook at our roof terrace in Olhão, Portugal.


Bartendering the Ice-bar!


Feeding the reindeers!


Piloting a dogsled.


Aurora borealis, something we never get tired of seeing.


Hiking with snow-shoes.


Reindeer sledding with the Sami, the indigenous people of Lapland!


Snowmobiling. Yes, she has a proper snowmobile drivers license!


Ice-fishing.


Ice-wall climbing.


Dogsledding!

NotJen

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2024, 12:42:39 PM »
Looks beautiful there!

I've been doing the same thing in the US for the past 3 years - working at hotels in national parks for the summer.

Do you work year-round (moving from job to job as the season changes), or do you have a home base for your off-time?

This past summer, I only spent 11% of my earnings while on the job, but I don't consider that I "saved" 89% because it goes towards living expenses when I'm not working.  That being said, just earning a little bit of money helps because it reduces how much I have to take from my investments each year.

MinouMinou

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2024, 12:46:47 PM »
Wow, how incredible! Thank you for taking the time to post your story and pictures, it tickles my imagination with all the possibilities post-FIRE....!

glacio09

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2024, 12:49:01 PM »
Looks beautiful there!

I've been doing the same thing in the US for the past 3 years - working at hotels in national parks for the summer.

Do you work year-round (moving from job to job as the season changes), or do you have a home base for your off-time?

This past summer, I only spent 11% of my earnings while on the job, but I don't consider that I "saved" 89% because it goes towards living expenses when I'm not working.  That being said, just earning a little bit of money helps because it reduces how much I have to take from my investments each year.

Funny enough I just came from your journal and between that and this, I have new goals for five years from now.

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2024, 01:23:27 PM »
Looks beautiful there!

I've been doing the same thing in the US for the past 3 years - working at hotels in national parks for the summer.

Do you work year-round (moving from job to job as the season changes), or do you have a home base for your off-time?

This past summer, I only spent 11% of my earnings while on the job, but I don't consider that I "saved" 89% because it goes towards living expenses when I'm not working.  That being said, just earning a little bit of money helps because it reduces how much I have to take from my investments each year.
It's amazingly beautiful in my opinion. That said, it's very exotic to me. Some of the locals have a different opinion and drug and alcohol abuse is rampant. The economy of the city of Kiruna is basically dependent of the extremely profitable iron ore mine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna_mine

Most locals work in the mine straight out of highschool and the pay is great. The tourism industy has great difficulty attracting people.

We have only worked two winter seasons; 21-22, and now, 23-24. We don't have a home base but travel around, all our belongings fit in our backpacks. Since FIRE we have lived in a half dozen countries. Last winter we lived in Cuba, studying spanish and salsa. I struggle with Spanish but I have become a pretty good salsa-dancer :)

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2024, 01:33:50 PM »
Wow, how incredible! Thank you for taking the time to post your story and pictures, it tickles my imagination with all the possibilities post-FIRE....!
There sure are possibilities! Even though a lot has not gone according to the plan, mostly due to the pandemic, it has been amazing all the time. Being self-reliant just makes everything so much easier, even working!
 

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2024, 03:06:30 PM »
Looks beautiful there!

I've been doing the same thing in the US for the past 3 years - working at hotels in national parks for the summer.

Do you work year-round (moving from job to job as the season changes), or do you have a home base for your off-time?

This past summer, I only spent 11% of my earnings while on the job, but I don't consider that I "saved" 89% because it goes towards living expenses when I'm not working.  That being said, just earning a little bit of money helps because it reduces how much I have to take from my investments each year.
Just read a bit about you working in Grand Teton! Looks amazing! Our plan after this working season, starting in May, is to travel by bicycle from Tuktoyaktuk, Yukon, down to Cabo San Lucas, Baja California. Grand Teton is on the route, possibly. Depending on if we are able to get a US visa permitting a longer stay than three months. Since I have lived in Cuba I must apply for a proper visa, normally Swedish citizens can travel to the US without hassle and I have done so many times in the past.

spartana

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2024, 03:14:04 PM »
Fantastic photos and story! I love that area and spent a couple of months up the road from you in Narvik, Norway. I love the northern most areas and have longed to visit again someday.

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2024, 03:37:30 PM »
Fantastic photos and story! I love that area and spent a couple of months up the road from you in Narvik, Norway. I love the northern most areas and have longed to visit again someday.
Thanks! Yeah, the area is amazing! I cycled from the south of Sweden and Norway summer of 22, through Lofoten and Narvik into Kiruna. I must say I prefer the winter up here though :)

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2024, 07:23:01 AM »
Thanks for sharing!  It isn't all about being idle or traveling.

I've enjoyed 11.5  years of being idle and am now applying for non-profit roles.  Time to give back and have 'purpose' that was lacking when I worked oilfield service industry.

FireLane

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2024, 08:59:59 AM »
What incredible photos! I've always wanted to see the northern lights, and the ice hotel and reindeer sledding look like amazing experiences too.

I've never been to Sweden, but I think it just went up a few places on my life list.

StarBright

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2024, 09:05:39 AM »
Thank you for sharing this super cool post!

Newday

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2024, 10:56:36 AM »
Wow! What a way to live post-fire!! Congratulations!

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2024, 11:13:27 AM »
Thanks for sharing!  It isn't all about being idle or traveling.

I've enjoyed 11.5  years of being idle and am now applying for non-profit roles.  Time to give back and have 'purpose' that was lacking when I worked oilfield service industry.
Exactly! I love the freedom of choice. My gf and I quickly become bored if we don't do anything, and the quarantine took its toll both mentally and physically. For the longest time afterwards I couldn't stand Netflix!

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2024, 11:17:49 AM »
What incredible photos! I've always wanted to see the northern lights, and the ice hotel and reindeer sledding look like amazing experiences too.

I've never been to Sweden, but I think it just went up a few places on my life list.
Thank you for sharing this super cool post!
Wow! What a way to live post-fire!! Congratulations!
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, we are pretty happy with our life! When we get paid for it, even better! :)

weebs

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2024, 02:39:01 PM »
Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I'm an outdoor junkie, so your post and pictures are truly inspiring.

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2024, 02:24:42 AM »
Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I'm an outdoor junkie, so your post and pictures are truly inspiring.
We're spending a lot of time in RE outdoors. The longer I worked in IT the more I wanted to get out of the office.


Metalcat

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2024, 06:45:08 AM »
This is AWESOME! Thanks so much for sharing!

halfling

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2024, 11:55:41 AM »
I could probably save even more if I cut down on beer, as I really don't have any expenses at all except breakfast and detergent.

I really got a kick out of this! Sometimes it feels like breakfast foods, beer, and detergent are all I really need in life, too.

LifeHappens

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2024, 12:06:52 PM »
Love this thread. What an amazing post-FIRE job.

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2024, 08:22:33 AM »
This is AWESOME! Thanks so much for sharing!

My pleasure :)

I really got a kick out of this! Sometimes it feels like breakfast foods, beer, and detergent are all I really need in life, too.

For sure! I don't need or want a lot of stuff. I recently replaced my 4 year old phone but even that felt like a luxury. Beer however, is a necessity.

Love this thread. What an amazing post-FIRE job.

It is amazing! Being FIRE makes it even better! Most coworkers chase more hours and are constantly looking for seasonal jobs while I like my 30 hour work week and find 5 months a little bit too long :)

Metalcat

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2024, 08:54:37 AM »
This is AWESOME! Thanks so much for sharing!

My pleasure :)

I love all the photos. If I had the patience to post mine I would, but I hate having to resize everything.

But we spend half our year living somewhere not dissimilar, we bought a very old, little house in a rural Newfoundland fishing village popularly referred to as both "the iceberg capital of the world" and "the edge of the earth."

The area is often described as a crazy cross between Ireland, Norway, and Iceland. I picked up a part time job in retirement as well, but it's remote specifically so that I can go live out there.

My quality of life has RADICALLY improved since spending so much of my time in overwhelmingly beautiful nature every day. Even if the weather is batshit insane a lot of the time. That's part of what makes it overwhelming and beautiful.

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2024, 02:36:07 PM »
I love all the photos. If I had the patience to post mine I would, but I hate having to resize everything.

But we spend half our year living somewhere not dissimilar, we bought a very old, little house in a rural Newfoundland fishing village popularly referred to as both "the iceberg capital of the world" and "the edge of the earth."

The area is often described as a crazy cross between Ireland, Norway, and Iceland. I picked up a part time job in retirement as well, but it's remote specifically so that I can go live out there.

My quality of life has RADICALLY improved since spending so much of my time in overwhelmingly beautiful nature every day. Even if the weather is batshit insane a lot of the time. That's part of what makes it overwhelming and beautiful.
Nice! Newfoundland is on "the list". So far the furthest north I've been on the east coast of N America is Cape Neddick, Maine.

ToughMother

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2024, 07:58:33 PM »
What an awesome experience! Thanks so much for sharing your adventures. The northern lights, snowshoeing, ice climbing, all activities I love. The ice bar doesn’t look too bad either. Hope you’ll post about your bike trip when you’re on it too. Thanks!

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2024, 06:55:33 AM »
Wow! Amazing pictures of amazing experiences. :)

Living in Cuba for a winter sounds interesting! I guess a tourist visa would be good for 6 months?  Living expenses would have been quite low I'm guessing? They seem to be experiencing a lot of shortages from what I've heard (water, fuel, etc.). 

Metalcat

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2024, 07:58:50 AM »
Wow! Amazing pictures of amazing experiences. :)

Living in Cuba for a winter sounds interesting! I guess a tourist visa would be good for 6 months?  Living expenses would have been quite low I'm guessing? They seem to be experiencing a lot of shortages from what I've heard (water, fuel, etc.).

Last I was there, living expenses in Cuba were quite high. Nothing was inexpensive, and most things were hard to get. It's a very, very different economic system that can be hard for folks to wrap their minds around. Just because folks there are poor doesn't mean the basics of life are cheap.

One of my family members was debating between a trip to Thailand and Cuba and ended up choosing Cuba because he didn't really research it properly. He had planned to stay for at least a month or two and ended up leaving after just a few days because he was so shocked at what it was like trying to live there. He really should have gone to Thailand, that was actually what he was looking for.

I personally LOVE Cuba though, I could easily see myself spending several months there.

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2024, 11:39:35 AM »
What an awesome experience! Thanks so much for sharing your adventures. The northern lights, snowshoeing, ice climbing, all activities I love. The ice bar doesn’t look too bad either. Hope you’ll post about your bike trip when you’re on it too. Thanks!
It's been awesome for sure! I'll try to post some pics during my next trip. Here is one from cycling through Sweden, from June 2022:


andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2024, 12:02:06 PM »
Wow! Amazing pictures of amazing experiences. :)

Living in Cuba for a winter sounds interesting! I guess a tourist visa would be good for 6 months?  Living expenses would have been quite low I'm guessing? They seem to be experiencing a lot of shortages from what I've heard (water, fuel, etc.).

Interesting is the correct term. As Metalcat writes, it's not very cheap. The locals have a ration-card allowing them to buy stuff once a month for cheap, but they don't have a lot to choose from. With a ration-card a loaf of bread might cost 2 pesos, while I had to shop in other stores and paid 350 pesos for the same bread.  While regulations have eased the last couple of years, they now can run restaurants, hostels and taxis, everything else is government owned and operated. Farmers, for instance, don't get to keep any of there produce and thus Cuba doesn't produce a lot of anything. Many Cubans don't have a concept of supply/demand and were annoyed with the current government for not providing for them. The black marker is huge and inflation is rampant, everything was about 50% more expensive when we left than when we arrived.

The main problem, for me, was that even though having money obviously helps, it doesn't matter when you have to queue for 30 minutes just to find that the bread now is sold out. I've seen fights erupt over a pack of frozen chicken. After a month of trying to cook for ourself we gave up and ate at restaurants. Queuing in Cuba is another interesting matter and before I realized that you need to ask the group of people for "el ultimo" and keep track of your position yourself I thought they were just rude and cut in front of the stupid westerner. As a Swede I'm accustomed to wait quietly in a proper line...

There were constant power-outages, you could only refuel 10 litres (less than 3 gallons) at a time after having been in line to the gas station for 30 minutes and taxis constantly broke down or ran out of fuel.

I could write a thick book about their so called "system", there is so much more.

Our initial visa was for one month and when we went to the migrations office to extend it we were told we could stay for one more month. As in told, literally. He didn't give us a new visa or anything in writing. No need, he assured us. After two months in Havana we did a visa run to Mexico for two weeks and our new visa was valid for three months. After Mexico we moved to Trinidad de Cuba, a city I enjoyed a lot more than Havana.

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2024, 06:23:51 AM »
This is such an inspiring post, thank you!

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2024, 10:26:02 AM »
I picked up a relatively seasonal agricultural job after FIRE as well.  Similar pay and similar experience.  No regrets. 

The funny thing is one of my first big travels after FI was to walk the Camino in Spain. . .  where I met someone who did seasonal work in Grand Teton! 

I realized that many jobs like this go unfilled because it's very hard to "make a living" doing them, despite their other attractions.  I work mainly with 20 somethings who haven't figured out a career yet, 30-40 somethings who figured out that they didn't want the career they had, and homeschool kids.  Great group of people actually.

I would feel some real insecurity if this had to be my real career path, but since the money is not really needed it works out really well.  I'd recommend it to anyone. 

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2024, 05:34:25 AM »
This is such an inspiring post, thank you!
Thank you and you're welcome :)

andkar

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2024, 05:41:51 AM »
I picked up a relatively seasonal agricultural job after FIRE as well.  Similar pay and similar experience.  No regrets. 

The funny thing is one of my first big travels after FI was to walk the Camino in Spain. . .  where I met someone who did seasonal work in Grand Teton! 

I realized that many jobs like this go unfilled because it's very hard to "make a living" doing them, despite their other attractions.  I work mainly with 20 somethings who haven't figured out a career yet, 30-40 somethings who figured out that they didn't want the career they had, and homeschool kids.  Great group of people actually.

I would feel some real insecurity if this had to be my real career path, but since the money is not really needed it works out really well.  I'd recommend it to anyone.
Good observations! I could never have this job as a career even though I have enjoyed the experience. The season is approaching its end and I am feeling pretty finished with it. But who knows, and I now have much higher confidence in trying out new kinds of work.

I am glad I have the option, few others are as fortunate. There are plenty here who dream about getting a big fortune and become easy targets for get rich quick schemes, like binary trading and such.


Metalcat

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2024, 05:47:02 AM »
I picked up a relatively seasonal agricultural job after FIRE as well.  Similar pay and similar experience.  No regrets. 

The funny thing is one of my first big travels after FI was to walk the Camino in Spain. . .  where I met someone who did seasonal work in Grand Teton! 

I realized that many jobs like this go unfilled because it's very hard to "make a living" doing them, despite their other attractions.  I work mainly with 20 somethings who haven't figured out a career yet, 30-40 somethings who figured out that they didn't want the career they had, and homeschool kids.  Great group of people actually.

I would feel some real insecurity if this had to be my real career path, but since the money is not really needed it works out really well.  I'd recommend it to anyone.

Indeed.

I was reading Nomadland all about the folks who live in RVs and the ones who work at campsites for free spots. It sounds like a horrid, high risk lifestyle if you depend on that for survival, but if you're a mustachian slow-traveler who loves the lifestyle of living at campsites, it could be fantastic.

Warlord1986

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2024, 01:15:02 PM »
That was such a great read, thanks for sharing!
Haven't been to Sweden, but Portugal is fantastic. Lisbon is one of my favorite cities, and I'm crazy jealous that you got to spend so much time in the Algarve.
Sweden looks gorgeous, and it's awesome you've found something to pay the bills and is so much fun at the same time. :)

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Re: The joy of working post-FIRE, or how much do I make really?
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2024, 04:10:58 PM »
This is really neat and impressive. I had to go back to the top and look to see if it was in journals because I was hoping it would be so I could keep up with the fun. Thanks for sharing!