Author Topic: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated  (Read 123082 times)

Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #300 on: February 23, 2023, 04:53:26 PM »
As a kid, I lived all over the place including two European countries. I was a military brat and didn't like changing schools and friends all of the time. As a teenager and in my early twenties I settled into the area I currently live in.

Then I married adventure boy and we had some great adventures during the 15 years we were together. We sailed to Bermuda and Florida and lived on a boat for years. We also lived in an RV and traveled the US. From age 25 to 40, we had a ton of different experiences. After we divorced, I embraced a much more stable life and eventually married a much more stable guy.

Our married life was much more work centered than my previous marriage. We had a good social life and spent lots of time on activities with friends. Then we retired and covid happened and our social activities dried up.

At age 60, I don't have the same drive to try new things that I did in my 20s and 30s. I don't think it's fear-based (though I'm still avoiding covid so that may be some of it).

Lots to think about. I definitely want to stay active and become more socially engaged again.

So it's not a fear of unknown, it just sounded a lot like it the way you described it.

I wonder why that is??

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #301 on: February 23, 2023, 06:03:04 PM »
I feel like it's inertia more than fear. If someone suggests something interesting, I'll happily do it - even if it seems intimidating. But it's hard for me to come up with a list of interesting or challenging new things to try. I guess I need to brainstorm and work through that.


TreeLeaf

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #302 on: February 23, 2023, 06:50:47 PM »
Some ideas for things to do...

Sometimes when I'm bored I will just walk around a place I have never been to before.

I recently discovered that my local Fedex has a side entrance that is hidden but not gated at all. I spent an hour sitting under a tree in the woods outside of the Fedex with my eyes closed.

Last summer I took my hammock into the woods one day after the rare stressful week at work and simply laid in the hammock all day staring at the sky, contemplating life.

I also spend an absurd amount of time just visiting with people and socializing.

My brother in law spent the last 7 years sitting in his bedroom playing video games and watching tv. Sometimes he leaves to go across the hall to the bathroom. He seems pretty happy...I assume. He never says much when I try to talk to him.

When I get really bored I watch this video. https://youtu.be/9v99hclktVA (This is Youtube, but you may or may not want to watch this at work. I sent it to my manager and he found it hilarious.)

You can practice striking up random conversations with strangers. That could be fun, or not, depending on who you wind up talking with.

There are a ton of card games to be played. I like euchre and spades the most. Cards against humanity is also fun to play...imo.

You could move to Hawaii for a year or two and sit on the beach. That sounds like fun to me.

You can follow the lacking ambition guy and buy a small plot of land in the desert for 5k or so and live there for a year, reading books from the local library and contemplating life.

There are always the van dwellers...if you are into that sort of thing. It would make slow travel pretty easy and covid friendly since you live in your own van.

You can talk with random internet strangers.

I could go on forever...

Would you rather do something that is relaxing or exciting or challenging or social?


lhamo

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #303 on: February 23, 2023, 06:51:40 PM »
RE: trying new things on a menu, is your partner a bit more adventurous?  When I go out with others I am often the one who is willing to try something unusual, and I'm happy to let whoever I am eating with try a bite or two.  For places you intend to go back to, that is one way to get out of an ordering rut.

Sometimes I will also change what I was planning to order because the other person is thinking of ordering the same thing, and it is more interesting to have two different dishes to try.

AlanStache

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #304 on: February 23, 2023, 07:20:53 PM »
When ordering food could you order your favorite and something else, with the intention of taking food home in a box.  Personally any restaurant food in the fridge will get eaten relatively quickly. 

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #305 on: February 23, 2023, 09:08:16 PM »
The menu story is a metaphor for my life. At every restaurant, I usually order the same thing...and it's usually fairly healthy and reasonably priced. I want to start ordering without paying attention to price, and I want to be more experimental (in life and in restaurants.)

I'm realizing that I'm waiting for excitement/fulfillment to show up, but I'm not actually doing the work to figure out what it is I actually want to do.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 07:36:55 AM by Omy »

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #306 on: February 23, 2023, 10:42:30 PM »
Trying new things, especially new experiences, seems like a broadly valuable goal. I actually had to turn off the Mad Fientist interview, though - Sethi’s got that salesman smarm, exhaling every breath with a catchphrase, for one thing, but I couldn’t stand his message either; it seemed to hinge on the idea that spending was somehow necessary to happiness or fulfillment, which feels disordered, bound for the hedonic treadmill. I’d rather simply behave as if everything in life were free & then act in accordance with my values: eschew waste, create meaning. If I’m not going to get more value out of the expensive experience I’d rather buy the cheap version & donate the difference. The world is not improved when I go from 400 thread count to 800 thread count sheets; it is improved when I give that extra $100 to a food bank.

I understand the inertia, though. There was actually a study on this that unless you’re very novelty-seeking, ordering a favorite menu item tended to result in higher-rated experiences overall. Some people aren’t just chomping at the bit for unexpected reward dopamine - that’s not only okay, it’s a healthy way to live - though the fact that it’s much less profitable for others creates a lot of pressure against it.

The one bit of the Mad Fientist interview I liked was Brandon’s idea to get private tutoring in pourover brewing - taking classes is something I’ve done a little of & want to do much more of as it opens whole new categories of things you didn’t know you didn’t know to go learn about. I also like what Treeleaf said about just finding an unexplored place to go experience with focused attention & Metalcat’s “surprise me” restaurant orders a lot. I was excited about Alanstache’s idea to order a favorite PLUS a new dish ... but have just realized that’s actually something I already always do every (rare) time we order family-style Chinese or Thai takeout or delivery, with great results, so I’ll upgrade from “excited” to “wholeheartedly endorse.”

Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #307 on: February 24, 2023, 06:30:54 AM »
The menu story is a metaphor for my life. At every restaurant,
I usually order the same thing...and it's usually fairly healthy and reasonably priced. I want to start ordering without paying attention to price, and I want to be more experimental (in life and in restaurants.)

I'm realizing that I'm waiting for excitement/fulfillment to show up, but I'm not actually doing the work to figure out what it is I actually want to do.

Lol, I got that it was a metaphor and I hope you got that I used my own restaurant example as a metaphor in response.

I'm very interested by all of this because the way you are talking shoes a distinct dissatisfaction with some degree of stagnancy. I fully misinterpreted your menu metaphor as meaning you get overwhelmed due to fear, which is incredibly common, but you've clarified that's not it.

Your current explanation makes it sound more like you've experimented a lot in life and have settled into routines that work for you and are generally quite good, but you've kind of gotten stuck in them.

This I can very much relate to. Not for myself, I can't even live in the same house for more than 3 years without getting ansty. But my DH is older and after a few years in our current place had really optimized a great routine for himself, but he kind of got stuck in it.

Then we had a conversation with my parents. My step dad had been cajoled into joining a darts league. And my mom talked about how impressed she was that he actually went because it was "so far out of his comfort zone." Um...They live in a small town. They owned a pet food store, so they know everyone in town. They're very sociable people. The darts games are held at a pub they frequent. My step dad has had many adventures in his life including running off by himself to live in Jamaica. He spent decades on the road as a traveling sales executive and then bailed to run a homeless shelter.

This is NOT a man who should feel intimidated by joining a darts league. But he was because his routine for the past decade had become so ingrained.

I looked at my DH with his ever increasingly metaphorically well worn path in the grass of his day-to-day lifestyle and said "we need to shake this shit up."

Then I impulse bought a house in rural Newfoundland (neither of us had ever been there) and dragged us out there for all of last summer.

He saw whales for the first time.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #308 on: February 24, 2023, 07:36:11 AM »
Lol, I got that it was a metaphor and I hope you got that I used my own restaurant example as a metaphor in response.
Yes...I got that you got it.
Quote
I'm very interested by all of this because the way you are talking shoes a distinct dissatisfaction with some degree of stagnancy. I fully misinterpreted your menu metaphor as meaning you get overwhelmed due to fear, which is incredibly common, but you've clarified that's not it.

Your current explanation makes it sound more like you've experimented a lot in life and have settled into routines that work for you and are generally quite good, but you've kind of gotten stuck in them.
Yes...exactly right.

I've eaten just about every type of food and love it all. If someone else is doing the ordering at a new place, I will try anything. If I'm ordering, I will likely get the same thing I ordered last time at that restaurant (this is more literal than metaphorical but I'm starting to see that pattern in my life as well).
Quote
This I can very much relate to. Not for myself, I can't even live in the same house for more than 3 years without getting ansty. But my DH is older and after a few years in our current place had really optimized a great routine for himself, but he kind of got stuck in it.

Then we had a conversation with my parents. My step dad had been cajoled into joining a darts league. And my mom talked about how impressed she was that he actually went because it was "so far out of his comfort zone." Um...They live in a small town. They owned a pet food store, so they know everyone in town. They're very sociable people. The darts games are held at a pub they frequent. My step dad has had many adventures in his life including running off by himself to live in Jamaica. He spent decades on the road as a traveling sales executive and then bailed to run a homeless shelter.

This is NOT a man who should feel intimidated by joining a darts league. But he was because his routine for the past decade had become so ingrained.

I looked at my DH with his ever increasingly metaphorically well worn path in the grass of his day-to-day lifestyle and said "we need to shake this shit up."

Then I impulse bought a house in rural Newfoundland (neither of us had ever been there) and dragged us out there for all of last summer.

He saw whales for the first time.

Yes. I feel a need to see some metaphorical whales. (I've seen whales and dolphins lots of times and never tire of it...from whale watching boats and from the boat that ex and I had together).

I have no problem playing in leagues or taking a class or buying a house. I realize I may experience an uncomfortable or awkward moment for anything new that I try, but I'm willing to try most things.

DH and I would both love to shake things up a bit (we're both bored with this covid-avoidance routine we've gotten ourselves into), but neither of us is good at taking the lead to do so. He's dabbled in some things, I've dabbled in some things, but we both need to dive deeper on this topic.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #309 on: February 24, 2023, 07:44:43 AM »
Trying new things, especially new experiences, seems like a broadly valuable goal. I actually had to turn off the Mad Fientist interview, though - Sethi’s got that salesman smarm, exhaling every breath with a catchphrase, for one thing, but I couldn’t stand his message either; it seemed to hinge on the idea that spending was somehow necessary to happiness or fulfillment, which feels disordered, bound for the hedonic treadmill. I’d rather simply behave as if everything in life were free & then act in accordance with my values: eschew waste, create meaning. If I’m not going to get more value out of the expensive experience I’d rather buy the cheap version & donate the difference. The world is not improved when I go from 400 thread count to 800 thread count sheets; it is improved when I give that extra $100 to a food bank.

I understand the inertia, though. There was actually a study on this that unless you’re very novelty-seeking, ordering a favorite menu item tended to result in higher-rated experiences overall. Some people aren’t just chomping at the bit for unexpected reward dopamine - that’s not only okay, it’s a healthy way to live - though the fact that it’s much less profitable for others creates a lot of pressure against it.

The one bit of the Mad Fientist interview I liked was Brandon’s idea to get private tutoring in pourover brewing - taking classes is something I’ve done a little of & want to do much more of as it opens whole new categories of things you didn’t know you didn’t know to go learn about. I also like what Treeleaf said about just finding an unexplored place to go experience with focused attention & Metalcat’s “surprise me” restaurant orders a lot. I was excited about Alanstache’s idea to order a favorite PLUS a new dish ... but have just realized that’s actually something I already always do every (rare) time we order family-style Chinese or Thai takeout or delivery, with great results, so I’ll upgrade from “excited” to “wholeheartedly endorse.”

I read the transcript instead of watching the video so I didn't pick up on the smarm. I identified with their points of spending more when it adds value. Traditionally, I spend a lot of time and energy trying to find deals on a hotel...when I should just stick with decent brands and pay a bit more. An extra $50-100 night won't break us and will likely add value to the trip.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #310 on: February 24, 2023, 08:13:56 AM »
Some ideas for things to do...

Sometimes when I'm bored I will just walk around a place I have never been to before.

I recently discovered that my local Fedex has a side entrance that is hidden but not gated at all. I spent an hour sitting under a tree in the woods outside of the Fedex with my eyes closed.

Last summer I took my hammock into the woods one day after the rare stressful week at work and simply laid in the hammock all day staring at the sky, contemplating life.

I also spend an absurd amount of time just visiting with people and socializing.

My brother in law spent the last 7 years sitting in his bedroom playing video games and watching tv. Sometimes he leaves to go across the hall to the bathroom. He seems pretty happy...I assume. He never says much when I try to talk to him.

When I get really bored I watch this video. https://youtu.be/9v99hclktVA (This is Youtube, but you may or may not want to watch this at work. I sent it to my manager and he found it hilarious.)

You can practice striking up random conversations with strangers. That could be fun, or not, depending on who you wind up talking with.

There are a ton of card games to be played. I like euchre and spades the most. Cards against humanity is also fun to play...imo.

You could move to Hawaii for a year or two and sit on the beach. That sounds like fun to me.

You can follow the lacking ambition guy and buy a small plot of land in the desert for 5k or so and live there for a year, reading books from the local library and contemplating life.

There are always the van dwellers...if you are into that sort of thing. It would make slow travel pretty easy and covid friendly since you live in your own van.

You can talk with random internet strangers.

I could go on forever...

Would you rather do something that is relaxing or exciting or challenging or social?

I'd love van life (but DH is less enthusiastic) so we haven't pulled the trigger on that yet. I'm still working on it though.

I'm a water person (and he isn't) so I bought a kayak for myself and go out with friends at least weekly for 7 months of the year.

I will probably buy a hammock and work on landscaping projects this spring.

I enjoy games and social activities with friends. This part of my life was stifled by covid but seems to be opening up again.

I like hiking and camping (DH is not a great tent camping companion...low tolerance for discomfort).

I have taken painting, pottery, and glass classes and enjoyed them all for a period of time.

I have joined leagues and been quite competitive.

Before FIRE and covid, these activities and adventures (on top of a job I really enjoyed) made up a pretty busy/fulfilling life. I now have a lot more time on my hands...

lhamo

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #311 on: February 24, 2023, 08:22:14 AM »

I identified with their points of spending more when it adds value. Traditionally, I spend a lot of time and energy trying to find deals on a hotel...when I should just stick with decent brands and pay a bit more. An extra $50-100 night won't break us and will likely add value to the trip.

Or you can do what I have started doing -- if you are using a search engine like Hotels.com, sort the results by guest rating, pick a few that seem to be a good value for money (I will pay more for a central location, or easy/free parking if I am traveling with a car), read the first 10-20 reviews to look for major warning signs, and then book one of those.  I won't even look at hotels that don't have a guest rating average of 8 or higher anymore -- the ones that get dinged simply don't offer the level of service/quality/value for money that I am looking for.

You can find some really nice experiences this way, while getting more variety.  On my road trip to Moab/Longmont, they included:

A cute western themed mom and pop place outside Twin Falls, Idaho
A nice higher end chain in a convenient location in Denver (we walked to some fabulous food, including a great pizza place and the best ice cream in Denver)
A really funky, fun bicycle themed complex just outside Colorado Springs
A safe, clean campground in Billings, MT where I slept in the back of my car for the first time
A chain place in Couer D'Alaine that was nothing special but a good place to crash and walk to a nice bowl of pho after a long day on the road.

Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #312 on: February 24, 2023, 09:27:38 AM »
Lol, I got that it was a metaphor and I hope you got that I used my own restaurant example as a metaphor in response.
Yes...I got that you got it.
Quote
I'm very interested by all of this because the way you are talking shoes a distinct dissatisfaction with some degree of stagnancy. I fully misinterpreted your menu metaphor as meaning you get overwhelmed due to fear, which is incredibly common, but you've clarified that's not it.

Your current explanation makes it sound more like you've experimented a lot in life and have settled into routines that work for you and are generally quite good, but you've kind of gotten stuck in them.
Yes...exactly right.

I've eaten just about every type of food and love it all. If someone else is doing the ordering at a new place, I will try anything. If I'm ordering, I will likely get the same thing I ordered last time at that restaurant (this is more literal than metaphorical but I'm starting to see that pattern in my life as well).
Quote
This I can very much relate to. Not for myself, I can't even live in the same house for more than 3 years without getting ansty. But my DH is older and after a few years in our current place had really optimized a great routine for himself, but he kind of got stuck in it.

Then we had a conversation with my parents. My step dad had been cajoled into joining a darts league. And my mom talked about how impressed she was that he actually went because it was "so far out of his comfort zone." Um...They live in a small town. They owned a pet food store, so they know everyone in town. They're very sociable people. The darts games are held at a pub they frequent. My step dad has had many adventures in his life including running off by himself to live in Jamaica. He spent decades on the road as a traveling sales executive and then bailed to run a homeless shelter.

This is NOT a man who should feel intimidated by joining a darts league. But he was because his routine for the past decade had become so ingrained.

I looked at my DH with his ever increasingly metaphorically well worn path in the grass of his day-to-day lifestyle and said "we need to shake this shit up."

Then I impulse bought a house in rural Newfoundland (neither of us had ever been there) and dragged us out there for all of last summer.

He saw whales for the first time.

Yes. I feel a need to see some metaphorical whales. (I've seen whales and dolphins lots of times and never tire of it...from whale watching boats and from the boat that ex and I had together).

I have no problem playing in leagues or taking a class or buying a house. I realize I may experience an uncomfortable or awkward moment for anything new that I try, but I'm willing to try most things.

DH and I would both love to shake things up a bit (we're both bored with this covid-avoidance routine we've gotten ourselves into), but neither of us is good at taking the lead to do so. He's dabbled in some things, I've dabbled in some things, but we both need to dive deeper on this topic.

Yeah, I'm totally getting you now.

You're a lot like my DH, willing to do anything, but easily sucked into comfortable routine, which is fine, there is zero need for changing a routine that is making you optimally happy, but like him, you sound like it's dragging you down.

What I told him was that he was becoming an old man, while he's normally a perpetually youthful energy kind of person. Our BIG shake up last year catapulted him back to being his young, spritely, bright eyed and bushy tailed self.

But if you don't have a compulsive adventure seeker attached to you and the two of you are prone to settling in a little too readily, then it can be hard to get dragged out of the cozy duvet of routine.

Just like spending too much time in bed, too much comfortable routine can start to feel psychologically convalescent.

You metaphorically need something to motivate you to get out of your comfy bed.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #313 on: February 24, 2023, 09:55:22 AM »
Quote
You metaphorically need something to motivate you to get out of your comfy bed.
Lol...I am literally under the duvet listening to the howling wind. Laundry and meal prep are not very motivating at the moment.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #314 on: February 24, 2023, 10:00:50 AM »

I identified with their points of spending more when it adds value. Traditionally, I spend a lot of time and energy trying to find deals on a hotel...when I should just stick with decent brands and pay a bit more. An extra $50-100 night won't break us and will likely add value to the trip.

Or you can do what I have started doing -- if you are using a search engine like Hotels.com, sort the results by guest rating, pick a few that seem to be a good value for money (I will pay more for a central location, or easy/free parking if I am traveling with a car), read the first 10-20 reviews to look for major warning signs, and then book one of those.  I won't even look at hotels that don't have a guest rating average of 8 or higher anymore -- the ones that get dinged simply don't offer the level of service/quality/value for money that I am looking for.

You can find some really nice experiences this way, while getting more variety.  On my road trip to Moab/Longmont, they included:

A cute western themed mom and pop place outside Twin Falls, Idaho
A nice higher end chain in a convenient location in Denver (we walked to some fabulous food, including a great pizza place and the best ice cream in Denver)
A really funky, fun bicycle themed complex just outside Colorado Springs
A safe, clean campground in Billings, MT where I slept in the back of my car for the first time
A chain place in Couer D'Alaine that was nothing special but a good place to crash and walk to a nice bowl of pho after a long day on the road.
Exactly this...filtering out 7s and below has made our last few trips so much more pleasant all around. I intend to start trying more 10s to see if the experience is even better. If not, I will probably go back to 8s and 9s.

Leseratte

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #315 on: February 24, 2023, 12:11:44 PM »
https://juliacameronlive.com/books-by-julia/its-never-too-late-to-begin-again/

Hi OMY, I found this book years ago in the library and really enjoyed reading it.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #316 on: February 24, 2023, 01:16:56 PM »
Thanks...I will check it out!

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #317 on: February 24, 2023, 04:06:43 PM »
@Metalcat, I was outside doing yardwork and thought my silly "what am I going to do with my life?" issues must seem so trivial and privileged to somebody who's stuck in bed for months and months waiting for her body to heal.

I just wanted you to know that I appreciate the time and energy that you put into your posts.

Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #318 on: February 24, 2023, 06:58:03 PM »
@Metalcat, I was outside doing yardwork and thought my silly "what am I going to do with my life?" issues must seem so trivial and privileged to somebody who's stuck in bed for months and months waiting for her body to heal.

I just wanted you to know that I appreciate the time and energy that you put into your posts.

My 64 year old mom retired this year and just today had a massive brain bleed that has blown out the entire front left part of her brain.

So even I feel like my little broken femur isn't that big a deal today.

Don't compare your problems and conclude that they're trivial. Do the opposite, take it *more* serously. Thank your fucking stars that your legs work and your brain isn't being decimated by an uncontrollable bleed, and go figure out how to have some god damn fun.

Don't waste your capacity for fun and adventure because you can lose it at any time.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #319 on: February 24, 2023, 07:48:08 PM »
I'm so sorry...that's just devastating. I will heed your advice.

TreeLeaf

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #320 on: February 25, 2023, 06:28:49 AM »
I'm sorry @Metalcat - it really does put things into perspective...

TomTX

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #321 on: February 25, 2023, 10:33:47 AM »
My 64 year old mom retired this year and just today had a massive brain bleed that has blown out the entire front left part of her brain.
Gentle *HUGS* Metalcat!

This is the perfect example of why OMY can be a very bad choice. My Dad retired fairly early - by the time he was 70, his mobility was noticeably impaired due to Parkinson's. At least my parents had 14 years of relatively easy travel in retirement.

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #322 on: February 25, 2023, 12:33:26 PM »
@Metalcat I'm sorry..:(

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #323 on: March 10, 2023, 09:40:19 PM »
I just finished Die With Zero. It really helped me rethink the way I look at money. So much so that I shocked DH. He said "Talk me out of spending $1400 on new irons." I said "Why?" 

It was one of those "who are you and what have you done with my wife?" moments but I truly didn't care if he spent the money.

I've been doing a lot of reflecting (and rereading everybody's recent posts on this thread). I've come up with some ideas (section hiking a lengthy trail, kayaking new bodies of water, taking regular road trips, painting, and experimenting with new restaurants). I'm actively filling up my calendar and buying supplies and generally shaking the dust off my predictable life.

I also attended my first super spreader after 3 years of avoiding large inside gatherings. At least 8 of 100+ people ended up with covid, but we somehow squeaked by unscathed (despite hugging some of the peeps who later tested positive). We're both tired of limiting our lives and it feels like it's time to start taking a little more risk in that regard.

Anyway...thanks for all of the ideas and for the kick in the rear end...I really needed it.

Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #324 on: March 11, 2023, 07:34:15 AM »
This is a great update to read.

I can just feel the zippy life energy coming out of it.

Enjoy the new menu items of life! And when you have to spend to do it, that's great, you have money!

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #325 on: March 12, 2023, 09:37:24 PM »
Thanks for the kind words.

I finally ordered a new kitchen table and chairs. DH bought the current set 30ish years ago. It's old and clunky and doesn't work well in the space. We've talked about replacing it for years, but my frugality always got in the way....even though I hated the damn thing.

I'm so freaking excited.

Reader

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #326 on: March 12, 2023, 10:24:41 PM »
been quietly following your posts over the years.
happy for you that you're enjoying your money and life.
looking forward to the updates!

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #327 on: March 13, 2023, 07:23:32 AM »
Thank you. It feels a little obnoxious to be discussing this as a problem.  Poor thing, she's stuck and can't figure out how to spend money...boo hoo. But if it's been a challenge for me, it's probably a challenge for others as well.

Ladychips

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #328 on: March 13, 2023, 07:39:39 AM »
I'm totally walking with you. I've been surprised at how hard it is to undo a lifetime of saving (especially with the market decrease at the start of my retirement!). But like you, I've worked pretty hard to change my mindset.  Also, like you, we bought new furniture.  For the first time in my life (I'm 56), I'm going to have matching living room furniture.  I'm excited!!

I don't want you to feel bad.  First, it's your journal...you can talk about whatever you want.  And second, you are absolutely right that its hard for us innate frugal people to spend money.  PhilB talks about the same thing in his journal.  You are not alone!!!

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #329 on: March 13, 2023, 07:57:13 AM »
Thanks. Sounds like I should check out PhilB's journal.

How do I go about moving this to the journal section? Or should I even bother? I'm well past the initial question but feel weirdly intimidated to start a journal from scratch.

LightTripper

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #330 on: March 13, 2023, 08:14:23 AM »
I feel like we are struggling with the same thing @Omy so love reading about how you are handling it.

And yes, "struggling" is probably putting it too strongly.  But that's why we write about it here instead of complaining to people in real life who might have UPP (unMustachian People Problems) rather than merely MPP.

Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #331 on: March 13, 2023, 08:20:50 AM »
Thank you. It feels a little obnoxious to be discussing this as a problem.  Poor thing, she's stuck and can't figure out how to spend money...boo hoo. But if it's been a challenge for me, it's probably a challenge for others as well.


This is a very valid topic here, we've all talked about the inner bag lady for years.

This is where it's so important to distinguish between frugal and cheap. Not replacing your dining room table that you hate isn't frugal, it's cheap. Now you could be frugal about replacing it, you could look for a used option, maybe one that you refinish yourself, or you could even build one. I did both of these things last year because I wasn't willing to pay Newfoundland furniture prices for tables.

Or you could go the more spendy option and replace it with new furniture in the event that you want something very specific and perhaps aren't handy enough to make. I also did this 3 years ago when I wanted a very specific size of convertible table for my small apartment.

It's so important to distinguish between frugality and being cheap. The difference is that frugality maximizes your quality of like and being cheap lowers it. Frugality pushes you to make your money work as hard for you as possible. Being cheap means not allowing your money to work for you optimally.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 08:22:55 AM by Metalcat »

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #332 on: March 13, 2023, 08:48:04 AM »
Interesting, Mcat. My challenge was that it was an expensive table in its day (but just not my taste) so it seemed wasteful to get rid of it.

I actually have two different family members who are interested in taking it off my hands and DH thinks someone will pay actual dollars for it if my family decides they aren't interested in it for free.

DH has always liked it. He picked it out 30 years ago and has never understood my aversion to it but agrees it is dated and too wide for the current space. He joked that it's only fair that I get a new table since he's getting new golf clubs. So I guess it wasn't just my cheapness that created the inertia in this case.

And yes, LightTripper, I'd get serious eye rolls if I whined to my family and friends about not being able to spend my money lol.

Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #333 on: March 13, 2023, 10:04:33 AM »
Interesting, Mcat. My challenge was that it was an expensive table in its day (but just not my taste) so it seemed wasteful to get rid of it.

I actually have two different family members who are interested in taking it off my hands and DH thinks someone will pay actual dollars for it if my family decides they aren't interested in it for free.

DH has always liked it. He picked it out 30 years ago and has never understood my aversion to it but agrees it is dated and too wide for the current space. He joked that it's only fair that I get a new table since he's getting new golf clubs. So I guess it wasn't just my cheapness that created the inertia in this case.

And yes, LightTripper, I'd get serious eye rolls if I whined to my family and friends about not being able to spend my money lol.

It's rarely *just* cheapness at play. Life is complicated and nuanced.

However, it's not so much the reason for keeping it that matters, it's why you feel *bad* about replacing it that's important.

You shouldn't feel guilty about doing something that doesn't hurt anyone. That's crazy talk. If you sell it or give it away, someone will actually benefit, which is awesome. I just benefitted from a used table out in Newfoundland and it made me SO HAPPY.

If you should beat yourself up for anything, it's for agreeing to buy an expensive table you didn't like in the first place. But that was a long time ago, your spouse really liked it, and you probably assumed you would just get used to it. Well, lesson learned, don't agree to buy expensive tables you really don't like.

That's not a huge life mistake, you can forgive yourself for that and move on. But using that to shame yourself for getting a new table that you actually like us kind of bonkers.

Here's the thing, there's nothing saintly about being cheap. There's no medal for putting up with a crappy table. As I said already, if you want to be frugal about replacing it, you could hunt for a used table, you could build a new table, you could just take the top off and build a new table top. There are TONS of minimally wasteful, inexpensive options for improving your table situation. 

This nonsense sunken cost thing makes no sense. If someone offered you a free table that was perfect, would you feel bad getting rid of your expensive table? No, of course not!
[If you answered yes, you might have issues]

There is literally nothing to feel guilty about by not keeping the table. So settle that issue in your mind.

The next issue is whether or not it's worthwhile to spend on a new table. Well, let's put it this way. Let's assume I'm back in Newfoundland last year when I was looking for a table. A neighbour offers me a table that I hate and it's the wrong size for my house, his cousin is very happy to take the table if I don't. I can either accept that awful table, buy a used table, build a table, or buy a new one. I can readily afford any of my options.

Should I feel guilty about not taking the free table??

Because that's basically the situation you are in. You spent money on this table years ago. That's a mistake that's in the past that you just need to let go of. Your table is not an expensive table, it's a free table you have as an option because of an expensive mistake you made in the past that you won't ever make again. Cool. It's a free table.

Is the fact that your table is free more valuable than having a table that works? If you had no table, would you choose this awful free table over other better tables that cost money?

And why would guilt play any role? Who are you hurting by choosing to spend a bit of money on a table that works for you rather than choosing a free table that doesn't?

I personally will almost never pay full price for a table, they're obscenely expensive. Even the new table I bought for the apartment was patio table from Ikea for only $130.

I wouldn't feel guilty or "bad" spending $3000 on a table and chair set, I just would never do it because there are other things I would rather spend on and too many used tables out there that I could modify if needed.

But that's not because I'm cheap or because I'm "good" that's just because tables just aren't valuable enough for me to ever spend that much on them. I've never looked at a table and though "I would prefer that to a beach vacation in the dead of winter."

You just need to figure out what a better table is worth to you. Is it worth $200 and waiting to find the right one on Craigslist? Is it worth custom ordering a $10000 piece from a high end furniture making artisan? Is it worth ordering a $1000 dining set from Ikea?

I don't know. It's up to you to decide what value having a good, functional table is for you. But don't cloud the equation with nonsense guilt about the mistake you made buying the original table or some misplaced sense of shame about spending money.

And DEFINITELY don't get into the habit of "well if he's going to spend on clubs, I get to justify spending on a table." That is pure consumerist justification.

A new table is either worth spending on compare to a crappy free table you hate or it isn't. There's no morality or guilt involved, it's a basic financial value assessment. What would you be willing to pay for a good table vs a free crappy table.

Answer that question and then act accordingly.

Shame and guilt are feelings that should only be reserved for when someone gets hurt by your actions (including yourself). Otherwise feeling them is some weird narcissistic, self flagellating shit that just pointlessly makes your life worse for no reason.

Remember, you were the one who decided to focus on saving money in the first place. It makes no sense to feel guilty about modifying a priority that you set for yourself. You're not betraying anyone, you're not breaking any rules. You're just assessing your current situation for the best course of action.

If the best course of action is to keep the crappy table, then keep the crappy table. There might be MUCH better things out there to spend your money on. But keeping the table out of some bizarre self-shaming that doesn't serve anyone's needs is just...well...crazy.

This is a practical decision, not a moral one.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #334 on: March 13, 2023, 11:30:35 AM »
I very much appreciate your thoughts, and I need to spend some time really dissecting your last post because there's lots of gold in there.

There are a couple of points I should clarify. DH bought this kitchen set ten years before we met. He also had some other nice (but ugly IMO) living room furniture that he ditched when we moved in together. I loved his bedroom set and we kept that.

For whatever reason, he is attached to that kitchen set. We've talked about replacing it for years but nothing ever happens because I'm cheap and he thinks it's perfectly fine....so stalemate. He loves the big, comfy rolling chairs that always end up being in the way and slowing me down.  So part of the problem is that I don't want to unilaterally change something just because it doesn't work for ME.

After this discussion, I'm thinking about refinishing the wood to a darker color (I'm not a fan of orange-y oak tones), reupholstering the chairs, and using it in the basement as a game table. It would work great for that.

DH lit up when I suggested that. He smiled and said he might start eating his breakfast in the basement. What a dork.

Also, his joke about me buying a table since he was buying golf clubs was his way of being funny in a "making fun of the stereotypical gender roles" sort of way. We have never had a tit for tat approach. For the most part, we've been minimalists and on the same page about spending/consuming.


Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #335 on: March 13, 2023, 12:23:17 PM »
Lol. Yep, asi said, these things are always nuanced. But again, it's important to separate out those very rational factors from the vague, weird guilt/shame associated with spending.

Your DH loving his table is a legit reason to keep it, but it's totally irrelevant as to whether or not it would be okay to spend on a table. You could feel 100% comfortable with spending thousands on a new table and still decide to stick with the old one to make your partner happy. They're separate factors.

I'm so happy to hear you might be able to refinish and repurpose the table if he loves it. It sounds like a great way for both of you to be happy.

Now to figure out how much, if anything, you want to spend on a new table and chairs.

Just FYI, used tables are about the BEST value out there. People are always replacing them because they're an item that frequently is the wrong size if someone moves. If you are comfortable with refinishing, you can get a set that would easily cost thousands to buy new for next to nothing, often for actually nothing if they need refinishing.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #336 on: March 13, 2023, 01:14:17 PM »
I ordered a new set last night. It was a bit impetuous, but we both like it. The chairs aren't rolly or as comfy as the old ones but DH agreed it would fit the space (and style) of our house better.

Waiting for a used set that we both liked...and dealing with strangers and asking for dimensions, condition, borrowing a truck, hauling it away, etc. would mean that it would be put off indefinitely. And I'm on a mission to die with zero...ha!

I appreciate your help in getting me to dig deeper. It has sparked some interesting conversations with DH as well. He jokingly asked ME to hit submit to buy his clubs. So I asked him "What exactly is holding you back?"  ; )

AlanStache

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #337 on: March 13, 2023, 02:30:42 PM »
Waiting for a used set that we both liked...and dealing with strangers and asking for dimensions, condition, borrowing a truck, hauling it away, etc. would mean that it would be put off indefinitely. And I'm on a mission to die with zero...ha!

The goal should be to be happy in life* not to die with zero :-) 

happy in life*: done responsibly and without undo harm to others etc...

TreeLeaf

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #338 on: March 13, 2023, 02:35:25 PM »
Waiting for a used set that we both liked...and dealing with strangers and asking for dimensions, condition, borrowing a truck, hauling it away, etc. would mean that it would be put off indefinitely. And I'm on a mission to die with zero...ha!

The goal should be to be happy in life* not to die with zero :-) 

happy in life*: done responsibly and without undo harm to others etc...

I'm not even sure how one guarantees they die with zero outside of spending down all assets and living off social security in old age?

Maybe I should read that book also.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #339 on: March 13, 2023, 04:47:00 PM »
It's more of a mindset than anything else. The goal is to have maximum "experience points" and realize when you should be spending down the stash. It's impossible to make it to exactly zero, but the point is to be intentional when spending as you are when you're accumulating. The older you get the less time and health and interest you have in spending. If you die with millions you LOST the game since you wasted too much time and energy working to accumulate.

The book was a bit of a wakeup call to me since I've never considered dying with money to be a negative thing. It helped me realize that it's better to give to charities and friends and family members before I die so they can use the money when it can actually benefit their lives. I recommend the book. It would have been even more helpful if I'd read it at age 40 instead of age 60.

TomTX

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #340 on: March 13, 2023, 04:54:41 PM »
Here's the thing, there's nothing saintly about being cheap. There's no medal for putting up with a crappy table.
Okay, being a smartass here - it's really easy to make up a "CRAPPY TABLE" medal these days...

http://www.getamedal.com/index.php

Metalcat

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #341 on: March 13, 2023, 05:09:54 PM »
Here's the thing, there's nothing saintly about being cheap. There's no medal for putting up with a crappy table.
Okay, being a smartass here - it's really easy to make up a "CRAPPY TABLE" medal these days...

http://www.getamedal.com/index.php

If you have to make your own medal though...

TreeLeaf

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #342 on: March 13, 2023, 05:19:09 PM »
Here's the thing, there's nothing saintly about being cheap. There's no medal for putting up with a crappy table.
Okay, being a smartass here - it's really easy to make up a "CRAPPY TABLE" medal these days...

http://www.getamedal.com/index.php

If you have to make your own medal though...

Where I work we can create digital medals to give to each other for...whatever reasons.

Both HR and management encourage us to use this system to reward and recognize employees for hard work. They used to give people physical medals but figured out the digital medals are cheaper.

I'm not sure it has the same psychological benefit HR seems to think it does...but I suddenly have an urge to give one of my coworkers a medal for 'crappy table' and watch their confusion.

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #343 on: June 03, 2023, 03:39:15 AM »
It's been a minute since I last updated. We've been busy...and not so much in the fun way.

Both of our living parents have been going through fairly serious health problems that involve a fair amount of out of state travel to help out. One parent is in their 90s and seems to be declining relatively quickly. We've also had to kick in funds to help support that parent (and expect that to continue until they pass). It's hard to know how long they will be with us, but I'm glad to have the funds to be able to help out. FatFIRE for the win.

At the same time, our long term tenants announced that they were moving out. After much debate we decided to sell our rental and not do a 1031 exchange as I had always planned to do. Die With Zero and a bunch of forum members helped me come to the conclusion that simplifying life was more important than optimizing tax consequences this year.

Selling this property (which should net us around $410k after renovations and expenses) will likely result in a $50k tax bill (which includes the loss of ACA credits for 2023). The month of May was crazy, but we are officially under contract and crossing our fingers until it settles.

Both of these stressors have taken a bit of a toll on our relationship. We are bickering (which we rarely do), and we need to fix that asap. I'm hoping the sale of the rental will take off some of the pressure. If not, we will need to invest in counseling to help us deal with the challenges we're facing with our ailing parents and help us reset back to our normally peaceful marriage.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #344 on: June 03, 2023, 09:27:27 AM »
You deserve a word of encouragement: gogogogogogogogogogo @Omy!

I think you are making the right choice to sell the rental.  As  you are already at FF, you could put it all in fixed income and armor plate your portfolio.  Perhaps "NVG"?  That is a closed end fund invested in AMT free municipals.  Bullet proof against default risk and yields almost 4.5% fed tax exempt?   Profit of 350,000 would produce annual tax exempt income of $15,575.  And it pays distribution monthly!

Hope you find a good counselor.

Oh and: gogogogogogogogogo!

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #345 on: June 03, 2023, 11:26:34 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement...and thanks for the recommendation!

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #346 on: July 03, 2023, 07:26:43 AM »
What a difference a month makes!

Sold the rental house last week so that's a huge relief.

One parent is recovering nicely. The other parent is still declining, but we have a lot more help so that has taken some pressure off.

Checked our financials and we've had a surprising recovery from the lows we experienced last year. That gave us a nice little morale boost.

Overall things are moving in the right direction and the bickering has stopped (thank GAWD!) It's so much more fun to talk about our next vacation than about stressful crap!

Dicey

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #347 on: July 04, 2023, 12:57:50 PM »
Yay!

BicycleB

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #348 on: July 05, 2023, 06:10:01 PM »
Just dropped in after long absence. @Omy, congrats on kitchen table, selling the house, and so on. Best wishes with your parents. :)

Omy

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Re: Serious "one more year" syndrome - advice appreciated
« Reply #349 on: July 07, 2023, 07:20:38 AM »
Thanks for checking in!