Ramit interviews Carl and Mindy Jensen

[lhamo]

Really interesting episode for those of us in a similar situation (and those who aim to be one day):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm3jlsW7W34

If anybody here knows them in person, PLEASE encourage Mindy to take that fabulous bike trip.  They can certainly afford it and there are only so many years you can do that kind of stuff with your kids.  The SO is currently on a bike on his way down 101 to meet up with our son in California.  Had a bit of a mishap yesterday when he lost his phone.  I sent him the link to this video when he was griping about having to buy a new one.  In the grand scheme of things it is a small price to pay for what will certainly be a lifetime of memories.

[sisto]

This is great, thanks for posting! I can really relate to them. It's so hard to move away from our frugal ways. I've been learning, it's a long slow process.

[Log]

I've definitely seen the sentiment here that Ramit is a less "advanced" financial content creator than the FIRE gurus. Just like Ramit says, the guiding virtue of the FIRE community is spending less, no additional context or detail needed. If Ramit tells you to spend more and MMM tells you to spend less, then MMM is clearly "better."

Ramit is good about catering the level of his advice to the person in front of him, so when he works with someone who's clueless, what he's saying might seem simplistic and not aggressive enough for our tastes. But when he works with cheap rich people, and it should become obvious to us that he's operating at a higher level.

But just look at this thread to see a bunch of people on this very forum writing with great conviction about how spending more is bad. And as Pete already quoted in the post in question: "what got you here won't get you there."

[jim555]

"We achieved FIRE with $4.3 M" - Not wasting my time with that.  An idiot can FIRE with 4.3M, pointless.

[lhamo]

"We achieved FIRE with $4.3 M" - Not wasting my time with that.  An idiot can FIRE with 4.3M, pointless.

They hit their FIRE number several years ago -- IIRC it was originally around 1mill.  Carl stopped working for a salary at that point (though he continued to blog/podcast and flip houses).  Mindy started working for Bigger Pockets and enjoyed it so kept earning.  They had a bunch of money in tech stocks (including Tesla) and their 1 mill went to 2 mill, then 4 mill, then down a bit and lately back up again.  Carl discusses some of these details on the latest episode of Mile High FI, the podcast he co-hosts.

Many of us who FIRED 5-7 years ago have seen a similar trajectory.  We had a higher nest egg when we stopped working, and have a lot in cash so it hasn't grown quite as exponentially, but we certainly have more now than we had then and waaaaay more than we need to live comfortably. 

I hope that they can get to a point similar to where I am now.  I don't spend frivolously but I have made a point about not denying myself when there is something I need or would value.  I bought some gear to make camping in my car feasible last year -- that will pay for itself if it allows me a couple more nights of not paying for a motel.  I have gone to more concerts and theater events.  I treat friends and family to meals out a few times a month.  I'm planning to increase my travel once my daughter is in college. But I don't spend where I don't have to. Gardening is my biggest hobby and I spend around $100-200/season on it -- that covers my community garden fee, compost/fertilizer, and seed starter mix/potting soil.  I source seeds and plants from free sources -- you can get an amazing amount of plants from local gardening groups if you are patient. I have a backyard full of prolific berry bushes (strawberries, raspberries, and even a blueberry bush) all sourced for free.  I actually find getting plants for free to be MUCH more fun/challenging than spending hundreds (or thousands) of dollars on them at the nursery.  And if they don't survive I don't feel nearly as bad!

[xbdb]

This is why I am such a big fan of the book "Die With Zero."  Carl and Mindy have, sadly, missed out on great experiences running on auto-pilot.

https://www.diewithzerobook.com/welcome

[Frankies Girl]

Did a skim of the article and things that stood out to me is them talking about being cheap and also how they're living sub-optimally, and being scared of spending money in general.


I mean, I get it. I grew up with hoarder/poor parents that warped my own relationship with both money and things, and I know what actual cheap looks like. Carl & Mindy never read as being cheap... frugal-ish sure but I've read their blog for years and over that time, I've seen them spending on LOTS of things that were definitely wants and not needs.

I definitely have started opening up my spending, but I'm still always going use my money mindfully with a slight frugal bent, which to me doesn't mean stop looking a the best deal or optimizing things. I just won't over-obsess about things as much. And I do think it's fine to spend on things that bring you real happiness and make your life better.

[jim555]

Yahoo Finance has an article on this...

https://news.yahoo.com/couple-retired-early-4-3-130000806.html

[stoaX]

This is great, thanks for posting! I can really relate to them. It's so hard to move away from our frugal ways. I've been learning, it's a long slow process.

Yes, thanks to the OP for alerting us to this. 

One nuance I have experienced is that I retain many of my frugal ways, even though I don't have to from a financial point of view, because they are more environmentally sound and I just don't like waste.

[Metalcat]

This is great, thanks for posting! I can really relate to them. It's so hard to move away from our frugal ways. I've been learning, it's a long slow process.

Yes, thanks to the OP for alerting us to this. 

One nuance I have experienced is that I retain many of my frugal ways, even though I don't have to from a financial point of view, because they are more environmentally sound and I just don't like waste.

My spending inflation is usually geared to living even more in line with my values. So for example, being able to spend more means I can prioritize local, artisanal, and sustainable products.

Most of our lifestyle inflation is actually care services to offset my increasing disability. So paying someone to cook or clean, which often involves paying a local SAHM quite well for her part time work.

One can spend more and increase their quality of life while adhering even closer to their ethical values.

[iris lily]

There is nothing wrong with continuing frugal ways past FIRE.

It gives me the icks when I spend money on crap that doesn’t bring me pleasure.

Now in Fat Fire I spend freely, but will not do some of the dumb things Ramit advises. I swear once I heard him tell a couple my age to pretty much spend for the sake of spending. Maybe that is an exaggeration, but…doh.

I’ve never heard Ramit talk about end of life nursing home care expenses either. I’m just not entirely on board when he’s telling couples who have $300,000 in the bank that they should go spin freely. $300,000 is not very much money.

[Metalcat]

There is nothing wrong with continuing frugal ways past FIRE.

It gives me the icks when I spent money on crap that doesn’t bring me pleasure.

Now in Fat Fire I spend freely, but will not do some of the dumb things Ramit advises. I swear once I heard him tell a couple my age to pretty much spend for the sake of spending. Maybe that is an exaggeration, but…doh.

I’ve never heard Ramit talk about end of life nursing home care expenses either. I’m just not entirely on board when he’s telling couples who have $300,000 in the bank that they should go spin freely. $300,000 is not very much money.

100%, we're not really frugal to save money, we have plenty of money and will have too much money in not too long from now. We're frugal because making frugal choices frequently makes our quality of life better.

My frugal mindset tends to drive me to engage in more healthy and fulfilling activities rather than trying to drown myself in consumerist over-stimulation, which started boring me to tears when I was living that way.

What I take issue with is Ramit's presumption that spending more is what it takes to live a more exciting and fulfilling life, when really, in our consumerism-obsesses culture, most are over-dependent on consumerism as a mechanism for trying to be happy, while things that really matter like health and deep adult friendship are sorely missing from so many people's lives.

That's why I always liked Pete's message about using frugality as a tool to build your best life. When done right, frugality doesn't detract from quality of life, it adds to it.

That said, I never see or read Ramit and think "that guy seems truly happy." So there's that.

[iris lily]

This is great, thanks for posting! I can really relate to them. It's so hard to move away from our frugal ways. I've been learning, it's a long slow process.

Your phrase “moving away from frugal ways” reminded me that a couple years ago I tried to get DH to think about a new way that we could spend money. I wanted to set up a general plan to gift charity, but also to realistically look at our assets and decide what to do with them.

He would not budge. He put his head down and said  “we will spend money on what we need to spend it on. “

Well, a couple years later it’s all fine because we ended up doing a major renovation to a little old house we bought to live in, and oh yes, the money has been flowing out of our coffers quite freely! I still did get him to agree to a set sum for charitable giving this year. I also took out the same amount from my own personal  Retirement funds for a donation  over which he has no say.

My whole approach to our stash is “die broke “but I have to hold back enough money for nursing home costs.

[2sk22]

This is great, thanks for posting! I can really relate to them. It's so hard to move away from our frugal ways. I've been learning, it's a long slow process.

Your phrase “moving away from frugal ways” reminded me that a couple years ago I tried to get DH to think about a new way that we could spend money.

Morgan Housel addresses this very nicely in his new podcast. He says that we need to keep trying new things to figure out what actually gives us pleasure.

On a recent vacation in Southern California, we stayed in a couple of $500+ per night hotels. I have never before stayed in such expensive hotels and was curious as to what they could offer to justify their high rate. I paid for the hotels with credit card points - of which we have accumulated a huge number. The hotels were super comfortable and luxurious - they even had Kombucha on tap in the lobby 😀. We enjoyed our stay but concluded that Hampton Inn or Home2 would have been almost as nice. This was an experience definitely worth trying.

[This is Apple Podcast link but you can access it on all podcast platers.]
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/little-ways-the-world-works/id1675310669?i=1000610784057

He suggests trying out a whole bunch of things

[iris lily]

This is great, thanks for posting! I can really relate to them. It's so hard to move away from our frugal ways. I've been learning, it's a long slow process.

Your phrase “moving away from frugal ways” reminded me that a couple years ago I tried to get DH to think about a new way that we could spend money.

Morgan Housel addresses this very nicely in his new podcast. He says that we need to keep trying new things to figure out what actually gives us pleasure.

On a recent vacation in Southern California, we stayed in a couple of $500+ per night hotels. I have never before stayed in such expensive hotels and was curious as to what they could offer to justify their high rate. I paid for the hotels with credit card points - of which we have accumulated a huge number. The hotels were super comfortable and luxurious - they even had Kombucha on tap in the lobby 😀. We enjoyed our stay but concluded that Hampton Inn or Home2 would have been almost as nice. This was an experience definitely worth trying.

[This is Apple Podcast link but you can access it on all podcast platers.]
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/little-ways-the-world-works/id1675310669?i=1000610784057

He suggests trying out a whole bunch of things

Five star hotels are my new luxury. But I’m not talking about five-star hotels in the big expensive cities like London, New York City, etc. Five star hotel in Prague was wonderful. With limited traveling to Europe I’m going to do in the future definitely five star hotels are in my future.

We stayed in Scottish castles that were $500 per person per night. I have zero regrets for that.

It was funny that in our last big trip to Scotland my cousin booked Airbnb rooms in a place I used to stare at longingly when I was 25 years old and traveling on a shoestring. This was in Inverness, so an Airbnb in Inverness it’s not gonna be very expensive but back then it was beyond  me.

First class tickets on the other hand will never be worth it to me, the cost for that is obscene.

[reeshau]

Five star hotels are my new luxury. But I’m not talking about five-star hotels in the big expensive cities like London, New York City, etc. Five star hotel in Prague was wonderful. With limited traveling to Europe I’m going to do in the future definitely five star hotels are in my future.

We stayed in Scottish castles that were $500 per person per night. I have zero regrets for that.

It was funny that in our last big trip to Scotland my cousin booked Airbnb rooms in a place I used to stare at longingly when I was 25 years old and traveling on a shoestring. This was in Inverness, so an Airbnb in Inverness it’s not gonna be very expensive but back then it was beyond  me.

First class tickets on the other hand will never be worth it to me, the cost for that is obscene.

I like Rick Steve's philosophy, that luxury travel often separates us from the culture we are supposedly trying to visit.  That is certainly true of a lot of city center luxury hotels, and first class travel.

A Scottish castle, though, totally gets a pass in my book, for the same reason.  Particularly for visitors from the US, I think that kind of immersion is great.  Even if the castle has running water and wi-fi, it will be different enough from suburbia to make an impression.

Re: flights.  My in-laws are crazy planners.  They are planning 2025 trips now, and out from there.  They often snag business class / first class seats for about full coach price for people planning 6-9 months out.  They are older, and so the discomfort of airline seats means more.  If you wanted to try it, planning that far ahead is probably the biggest discount you can get, other than traveling during a global recession.

[iris lily]

Five star hotels are my new luxury. But I’m not talking about five-star hotels in the big expensive cities like London, New York City, etc. Five star hotel in Prague was wonderful. With limited traveling to Europe I’m going to do in the future definitely five star hotels are in my future.

We stayed in Scottish castles that were $500 per person per night. I have zero regrets for that.

It was funny that in our last big trip to Scotland my cousin booked Airbnb rooms in a place I used to stare at longingly when I was 25 years old and traveling on a shoestring. This was in Inverness, so an Airbnb in Inverness it’s not gonna be very expensive but back then it was beyond  me.

First class tickets on the other hand will never be worth it to me, the cost for that is obscene.

I like Rick Steve's philosophy, that luxury travel often separates us from the culture we are supposedly trying to visit.  That is certainly true of a lot of city center luxury hotels, and first class travel.

A Scottish castle, though, totally gets a pass in my book, for the same reason.  Particularly for visitors from the US, I think that kind of immersion is great.  Even if the castle has running water and wi-fi, it will be different enough from suburbia to make an impression.

Re: flights.  My in-laws are crazy planners.  They are planning 2025 trips now, and out from there.  They often snag business class / first class seats for about full coach price for people planning 6-9 months out.  They are older, and so the discomfort of airline seats means more.  If you wanted to try it, planning that far ahead is probably the biggest discount you can get, other than traveling during a global recession.

I don’t know if I am necessarily wanting to be immersed in the cultures I visit. I really go to see the architecture. So that’s why I like five star hotels in the city center, they have to be OLD buildings. And then if I’m in the city center is easy enough to be around coffee, shops, and small restaurants in at Cetera.

The small family hotels probably impart more of the culture, he’s right there. There’s a level of formality in the five star hotels that strike me as universally European, not local practices necessarily.

[reeshau]

The most striking place I see the difference is on the train.  In second class, it seems there is always someone who wants to talk, even if it isn't everyone.  Also, there are more kids, who might be more active--moving through the car,

In first class, people have paid for their room, and maybe their privacy.  Much more difficult to strike up a conversation, unless it is very full and you have close neighbors.

[Metalcat]

The most striking place I see the difference is on the train.  In second class, it seems there is always someone who wants to talk, even if it isn't everyone.  Also, there are more kids, who might be more active--moving through the car,

In first class, people have paid for their room, and maybe their privacy.  Much more difficult to strike up a conversation, unless it is very full and you have close neighbors.

Yep, last time I was in coach on the train I was sitting next to a young man who very, very much wanted to chat.

He stank of cigarettes, looked exactly like the serial killer from Mr. Mercedes, and was reading an extremely well worn and heavily highlighted copy of a book on human torture.

Lol, I upgraded to business class for my return trip, and you're right, there is NO chit chat there.

[englishteacheralex]

I thought that interview was eye-opening and fascinating.

[Cassie]

Since I started taking tours to Europe versus traveling on my own the hotels that I have been at are much nicer. Like IL I go to see the architecture versus being immersed in the culture.

[reeshau]

Another tell is restaurants that have English menus.  Nope, not if I can help it.  You will get "tourist-ized" food, and again won't be authentic.  Probably priced to tourist expectations, too.

Even in the heart of Munich, I can walk 2 blocks off of Marienplatz, down a side street, and walk into a place where the food is cheap, the people are in a boisterous, good mood, and I might have to point at others' dishes to order.  Usually they don't mind--they are entertained immensely by the tourist among their midst, and generally helpful.

While you do get the occasional something you can't handle--too spicy, condiments you don't like, etc. it's a much more rewarding experience.  And quite often, so cheap you can order again, and still be money ahead.

One thing I am entertained throughout Europe:  when beer and/or wine is prices less than a Coke.  You know who orders the Coke, and what is the preferred local drink.

[Dicey]

Ha, we just returned from two weeks in CO. We went to help out our kids and hang with the grandkids. We stayed at free rest stops along the way, because they're super convenient and...free. OTOH, we spent a fair chunk of money (~$1500) on things we knew would help their business (which they don't know about yet - the suspense is killing us!) We also took our granddaughter for an overnight in the RV. We took her to Costco and Walmart. She's growing, but tends to wear her stuff into the ground. We bought her two dresses, new shoes, lots of socks and underwear. Oh, and some hair trinkets. She loved the attention and we didn't care what any of it cost.

One of the aspects of FIRE we appreciate is the flexibility. We can continue our frugal ways *and* we can splash out when we choose. The freedom of that us delicious.

[mustachian816]

Five star hotels are my new luxury. But I’m not talking about five-star hotels in the big expensive cities like London, New York City, etc. Five star hotel in Prague was wonderful. With limited traveling to Europe I’m going to do in the future definitely five star hotels are in my future.

We stayed in Scottish castles that were $500 per person per night. I have zero regrets for that.

It was funny that in our last big trip to Scotland my cousin booked Airbnb rooms in a place I used to stare at longingly when I was 25 years old and traveling on a shoestring. This was in Inverness, so an Airbnb in Inverness it’s not gonna be very expensive but back then it was beyond  me.

First class tickets on the other hand will never be worth it to me, the cost for that is obscene.

I like Rick Steve's philosophy, that luxury travel often separates us from the culture we are supposedly trying to visit.  That is certainly true of a lot of city center luxury hotels, and first class travel.

A Scottish castle, though, totally gets a pass in my book, for the same reason.  Particularly for visitors from the US, I think that kind of immersion is great.  Even if the castle has running water and wi-fi, it will be different enough from suburbia to make an impression.

Re: flights.  My in-laws are crazy planners.  They are planning 2025 trips now, and out from there.  They often snag business class / first class seats for about full coach price for people planning 6-9 months out.  They are older, and so the discomfort of airline seats means more.  If you wanted to try it, planning that far ahead is probably the biggest discount you can get, other than traveling during a global recession.

I don’t know if I am necessarily wanting to be immersed in the cultures I visit. I really go to see the architecture. So that’s why I like five star hotels in the city center, they have to be OLD buildings. And then if I’m in the city center is easy enough to be around coffee, shops, and small restaurants in at Cetera.

The small family hotels probably impart more of the culture, he’s right there. There’s a level of formality in the five star hotels that strike me as universally European, not local practices necessarily.

You can find 4-5* locally run boutique inns and b&b in pretty much every major european city.  You'll get more of a taste of local cultures compared to staying in an intercontinental hotel that happens to be in an old building but with most of the same comforts and conveniences.  Rick steves offers some usually locally run higher end accomodations in the $300-500/nt range if you want some suggestions.

[Fomerly known as something]

I will say listening to a Ramit did affect my Labor Day plans yesterday.  I decided I’d like to go visit my parents somewhat last minute, which is a cross US flight.  I looked at flights and went, hmm oh expensive.  But then I remembered I have the money for this so go see Mom and Dad darn it.  I don’t think if I wasn’t looking to consciously spend more because I have I would have booked the flights.  Labor Day is basically the last time I’ve got opportunity to visit before Christmas.

[2sk22]

I will say listening to a Ramit did affect my Labor Day plans yesterday.  I decided I’d like to go visit my parents somewhat last minute, which is a cross US flight.  I looked at flights and went, hmm oh expensive.  But then I remembered I have the money for this so go see Mom and Dad darn it.  I don’t think if I wasn’t looking to consciously spend more because I have I would have booked the flights.  Labor Day is basically the last time I’ve got opportunity to visit before Christmas.

I have also definitely loosened up a little on spending within the past year, especially after I turned 60. Both Ramit and Morgan Housel have shaped my thinking on spending - I think for the better.

I think Ramit has a good mix of guests at both ends of the spectrum - confused spendthrifts as well as wealthy tightwads. I find the second variety to be especially interesting as they are more relevant to my situation.

[iris lily]

I will say listening to a Ramit did affect my Labor Day plans yesterday.  I decided I’d like to go visit my parents somewhat last minute, which is a cross US flight.  I looked at flights and went, hmm oh expensive.  But then I remembered I have the money for this so go see Mom and Dad darn it.  I don’t think if I wasn’t looking to consciously spend more because I have I would have booked the flights.  Labor Day is basically the last time I’ve got opportunity to visit before Christmas.

I have also definitely loosened up a little on spending within the past year, especially after I turned 60. Both Ramit and Morgan Housel have shaped my thinking on spending - I think for the better.

I think Ramit has a good mix of guests at both ends of the spectrum - confused spendthrifts as well as wealthy tightwads. I find the second variety to be especially interesting as they are more relevant to my situation.

I was listening last week to an older podcast of Ramit’s. I hope I get these numbers right, but I was actually shocked at what he said and I thought it was extremely dumb.

He was counseling a young couple who had $450,000 in debt. The debt was dental school debt. The dentist had a plan to pay it back, I guess it was based on that income program, in 10 years. The wife had already paid down her school debt,  something like $60,000 and she was now wanting to tackle the big debt. In fact, she was shocked that their overall debt had increased since she last talked to her husband about it.

Also her husband had stopped paying their health insurance some months ago because “they didn’t need it and use it during Covid. “

I was dumbfounded at this couples’ plight:

1. Giant debt
2. Debt increasing
3. Srsly, no freaking health insurance?

And do you know what Ramit and the husband spent the entire podcast talking about? The both of them kept trying to assuage the wife’s fears. The husband kept saying he wanted his wife to enjoy her life and get busy with her arts and crafts, enjoy their child because it all will work out.

I wonder if anyone remembers that episode and if my interpretation is way off base? I will admit that I run in and out of the house when these podcasts are on, so maybe I missed some major information but I can just imagine this couple coming on MMM forum where that would be seen as a hair on fire emergency, and about a stupid as you can get with the health insurance.

[Metalcat]

I will say listening to a Ramit did affect my Labor Day plans yesterday.  I decided I’d like to go visit my parents somewhat last minute, which is a cross US flight.  I looked at flights and went, hmm oh expensive.  But then I remembered I have the money for this so go see Mom and Dad darn it.  I don’t think if I wasn’t looking to consciously spend more because I have I would have booked the flights.  Labor Day is basically the last time I’ve got opportunity to visit before Christmas.

I have also definitely loosened up a little on spending within the past year, especially after I turned 60. Both Ramit and Morgan Housel have shaped my thinking on spending - I think for the better.

I think Ramit has a good mix of guests at both ends of the spectrum - confused spendthrifts as well as wealthy tightwads. I find the second variety to be especially interesting as they are more relevant to my situation.

I was listening last week to an older podcast of Ramit’s. I hope I get these numbers right, but I was actually shocked at what he said and I thought it was extremely dumb.

He was counseling a young couple who had $450,000 in debt. The debt was dental school debt. The dentist had a plan to pay it back, I guess it was based on that income program, in 10 years. The wife had already paid down her school debt,  something like $60,000 and she was now wanting to tackle the big debt. In fact, she was shocked that their overall debt had increased since she last talked to her husband about it.

Also her husband had stopped paying their health insurance some months ago because “they didn’t need it and use it during Covid. “

I was dumbfounded at this couples’ plight:

1. Giant debt
2. Debt increasing
3. Srsly, no freaking health insurance?

And do you know what Ramit and the husband spent the entire podcast talking about? The both of them kept trying to assuage the wife’s fears. The husband kept saying he wanted his wife to enjoy her life and get busy with her arts and crafts, enjoy their child because it all will work out.

I wonder if anyone remembers that episode and if my interpretation is way off base? I will admit that I run in and out of the house when these podcasts are on, so maybe I missed some major information but I can just imagine this couple coming on MMM forum where that would be seen as a hair on fire emergency, and about a stupid as you can get with the health insurance.

Jeebus fucking Christ.

I worked for a financial firm that advised dentists and doctors. No one, and I mean NO ONE who understands the economics of dentistry would tell a young dentist not to stress about that level of debt.

[iris lily]

I will say listening to a Ramit did affect my Labor Day plans yesterday.  I decided I’d like to go visit my parents somewhat last minute, which is a cross US flight.  I looked at flights and went, hmm oh expensive.  But then I remembered I have the money for this so go see Mom and Dad darn it.  I don’t think if I wasn’t looking to consciously spend more because I have I would have booked the flights.  Labor Day is basically the last time I’ve got opportunity to visit before Christmas.

I have also definitely loosened up a little on spending within the past year, especially after I turned 60. Both Ramit and Morgan Housel have shaped my thinking on spending - I think for the better.

I think Ramit has a good mix of guests at both ends of the spectrum - confused spendthrifts as well as wealthy tightwads. I find the second variety to be especially interesting as they are more relevant to my situation.

I was listening last week to an older podcast of Ramit’s. I hope I get these numbers right, but I was actually shocked at what he said and I thought it was extremely dumb.

He was counseling a young couple who had $450,000 in debt. The debt was dental school debt. The dentist had a plan to pay it back, I guess it was based on that income program, in 10 years. The wife had already paid down her school debt,  something like $60,000 and she was now wanting to tackle the big debt. In fact, she was shocked that their overall debt had increased since she last talked to her husband about it.

Also her husband had stopped paying their health insurance some months ago because “they didn’t need it and use it during Covid. “

I was dumbfounded at this couples’ plight:

1. Giant debt
2. Debt increasing
3. Srsly, no freaking health insurance?

And do you know what Ramit and the husband spent the entire podcast talking about? The both of them kept trying to assuage the wife’s fears. The husband kept saying he wanted his wife to enjoy her life and get busy with her arts and crafts, enjoy their child because it all will work out.

I wonder if anyone remembers that episode and if my interpretation is way off base? I will admit that I run in and out of the house when these podcasts are on, so maybe I missed some major information but I can just imagine this couple coming on MMM forum where that would be seen as a hair on fire emergency, and about a stupid as you can get with the health insurance.

Jeebus fucking Christ.

I worked for a financial firm that advised dentists and doctors. No one, and I mean NO ONE who understands the economics of dentistry would tell a young dentist not to stress about that level of debt.

I found the episode, it aired August 10, 2021 and title is “My wife didnt know I have $450,000…”

And it is even worse. They now have $600,000 of debt.

[JupiterGreen]

I will say listening to a Ramit did affect my Labor Day plans yesterday.  I decided I’d like to go visit my parents somewhat last minute, which is a cross US flight.  I looked at flights and went, hmm oh expensive.  But then I remembered I have the money for this so go see Mom and Dad darn it.  I don’t think if I wasn’t looking to consciously spend more because I have I would have booked the flights.  Labor Day is basically the last time I’ve got opportunity to visit before Christmas.

I have also definitely loosened up a little on spending within the past year, especially after I turned 60. Both Ramit and Morgan Housel have shaped my thinking on spending - I think for the better.

I think Ramit has a good mix of guests at both ends of the spectrum - confused spendthrifts as well as wealthy tightwads. I find the second variety to be especially interesting as they are more relevant to my situation.

I was listening last week to an older podcast of Ramit’s. I hope I get these numbers right, but I was actually shocked at what he said and I thought it was extremely dumb.

He was counseling a young couple who had $450,000 in debt. The debt was dental school debt. The dentist had a plan to pay it back, I guess it was based on that income program, in 10 years. The wife had already paid down her school debt,  something like $60,000 and she was now wanting to tackle the big debt. In fact, she was shocked that their overall debt had increased since she last talked to her husband about it.

Also her husband had stopped paying their health insurance some months ago because “they didn’t need it and use it during Covid. “

I was dumbfounded at this couples’ plight:

1. Giant debt
2. Debt increasing
3. Srsly, no freaking health insurance?

And do you know what Ramit and the husband spent the entire podcast talking about? The both of them kept trying to assuage the wife’s fears. The husband kept saying he wanted his wife to enjoy her life and get busy with her arts and crafts, enjoy their child because it all will work out.

I wonder if anyone remembers that episode and if my interpretation is way off base? I will admit that I run in and out of the house when these podcasts are on, so maybe I missed some major information but I can just imagine this couple coming on MMM forum where that would be seen as a hair on fire emergency, and about a stupid as you can get with the health insurance.

Jeebus fucking Christ.

I worked for a financial firm that advised dentists and doctors. No one, and I mean NO ONE who understands the economics of dentistry would tell a young dentist not to stress about that level of debt.

I found the episode, it aired August 10, 2021 and title is “My wife didnt know I have $450,000…”

And it is even worse. They now have $600,000 of debt.

Wow! I was listening to the recent episode with the former addict who got clean. Why did Ramit not parse the numbers more and also not go harder on this guy? I mean good for him for overcoming his addiction but I would have like to hear Ramit strongly address the spending issues and the behavioral one where the guy never consults his wife before making crazy purchases (wife does all the money managing and makes more than hubs). The guy bought a four wheeler without asking wife and pushed wife into a BMW. The wife sounded like a saint (or a sucker not sure which) and Ramit was just mild on his response. I was like save WAY more and sell all that useless high priced shit you bought, it's an effin emergency bro! /end rant

[Metalcat]

Wow! I was listening to the recent episode with the former addict who got clean. Why did Ramit not parse the numbers more and also not go harder on this guy? I mean good for him for overcoming his addiction but I would have like to hear Ramit strongly address the spending issues and the behavioral one where the guy never consults his wife before making crazy purchases (wife does all the money managing and makes more than hubs). The guy bought a four wheeler without asking wife and pushed wife into a BMW. The wife sounded like a saint (or a sucker not sure which) and Ramit was just mild on his response. I was like save WAY more and sell all that useless high priced shit you bought, it's an effin emergency bro! /end rant

I have to say, I've never listened to this guy. I watched a few minutes of his Netflix show but found him utterly unwatchable.

The more I read about him here, the more I feel like my instinct not to waste time on him was correct.

[Miss Piggy]

I found the episode, it aired August 10, 2021 and title is “My wife didnt know I have $450,000…”

And it is even worse. They now have $600,000 of debt.

OMG. I'm damn near hyperventilating at this.

[iris lily]

I found the episode, it aired August 10, 2021 and title is “My wife didnt know I have $450,000…”

And it is even worse. They now have $600,000 of debt.

OMG. I'm damn near hyperventilating at this.

I listened carefully to the entire episode again. I wanted to make sure I didn’t miss something. Ramit never once addressed the husband’s plan to pay down the debt in 10 years. Will it work? Who knows, and neither I nor the wife have any factual reference for the plan. He never once addressed the stupidity of dropping health insurance.

They both went on and on kind of picking on the wife about her concern about not having enough money to have another child, certainly a legitimate concern, because she is a working mom, she is also a dentist. The husband went off a fight of fancy as to what he wants to buy in the future: a house, a house for his parents, long intimate vacations with his wife, have a nanny, etc. etc. Ramit likes these “ dream big!” Ideas. Ugh.

This was the most anti-MMM show I’ve ever heard. Granted, not all of Ramit’s  podcast are this crazy.

[Log]

Wow! I was listening to the recent episode with the former addict who got clean. Why did Ramit not parse the numbers more and also not go harder on this guy? I mean good for him for overcoming his addiction but I would have like to hear Ramit strongly address the spending issues and the behavioral one where the guy never consults his wife before making crazy purchases (wife does all the money managing and makes more than hubs). The guy bought a four wheeler without asking wife and pushed wife into a BMW. The wife sounded like a saint (or a sucker not sure which) and Ramit was just mild on his response. I was like save WAY more and sell all that useless high priced shit you bought, it's an effin emergency bro! /end rant

I have to say, I've never listened to this guy. I watched a few minutes of his Netflix show but found him utterly unwatchable.

The more I read about him here, the more I feel like my instinct not to waste time on him was correct.

The Netflix show was definitely trash.

His interviews with, as another poster put it, “wealthy tightwads” are of genuine value and would benefit a lot of people on these forums stuck. He says very similar things to what you say about worthwhile luxuries.

[guy in the chair]

I found the episode, it aired August 10, 2021 and title is “My wife didnt know I have $450,000…”

And it is even worse. They now have $600,000 of debt.

Long time reader, first time poster. I thought I'd chime in before we throw Ramit completely under the bus.

The transcript for that episode is here:
https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/004-wendy-john/

The crucial piece of info is this bit:

Ramit Sethi: [00:21:12] Here’s what John is saying. Because of his income-based repayment plan, the debt is going to be forgiven in a matter of years, he just has to keep paying some amount towards it. So, to him, it makes no sense to pay extra when it’s going to be forgiven anyway.

It sounds like the husband is on a loan repayment program where he pays a certain percentage of his salary every month, and after something like 20 years, whatever loan amount remaining is forgiven. Perhaps it's one of these programs:
https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/repayment/plans/income-driven

So it's not a $450k (or $600k) loan, it's an obligation to pay $2000 per month over the next 10 years. Any additional loan payments would be throwing money away. Highlighting the outstanding balance is misleading, and a bit clickbaity. I'm not commenting on whether this was a good plan to begin with, but it's what they have.

It seems to me that the episode is more about the lack of communication between husband and wife. If he's banking their financial future on this repayment program, and she's the type of person who wants all the details wrapped up, she's definitely going to want to see paperwork and documentation that will prove to her that his plan is sound.

But the no health insurance thing? During COVID?? WTF

[iris lily]

I found the episode, it aired August 10, 2021 and title is “My wife didnt know I have $450,000…”

And it is even worse. They now have $600,000 of debt.

Long time reader, first time poster. I thought I'd chime in before we throw Ramit completely under the bus.

The transcript for that episode is here:
https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/004-wendy-john/

The crucial piece of info is this bit:

Ramit Sethi: [00:21:12] Here’s what John is saying. Because of his income-based repayment plan, the debt is going to be forgiven in a matter of years, he just has to keep paying some amount towards it. So, to him, it makes no sense to pay extra when it’s going to be forgiven anyway.

It sounds like the husband is on a loan repayment program where he pays a certain percentage of his salary every month, and after something like 20 years, whatever loan amount remaining is forgiven. Perhaps it's one of these programs:
https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/repayment/plans/income-driven

So it's not a $450k (or $600k) loan, it's an obligation to pay $2000 per month over the next 10 years. Any additional loan payments would be throwing money away. Highlighting the outstanding balance is misleading, and a bit clickbaity. I'm not commenting on whether this was a good plan to begin with, but it's what they have.

It seems to me that the episode is more about the lack of communication between husband and wife. If he's banking their financial future on this repayment program, and she's the type of person who wants all the details wrapped up, she's definitely going to want to see paperwork and documentation that will prove to her that his plan is sound.

But the no health insurance thing? During COVID?? WTF

Thank you for this, and I figured it was one of those mysterious student loan payment plans but I would really like a second opinion that is a viable plan and would like to know what the “gotchas” are tied into the plan. I’m like the wife, I would be unsatisfied with the payment plan without knowing all the details about it.

It could be seen as financially stupid to start paying down the school debt in amounts beyond the minimum payments required.

But also, why the hell has their debt increased? There seems to be debt up to $600,000 that is not all school debt. Somehow it increased from 450,000 to 600,000.  (?)

See, I don’t think he’s very responsible with money from this interview, and he would scare the crap out of me as a spouse.

[Metalcat]

I found the episode, it aired August 10, 2021 and title is “My wife didnt know I have $450,000…”

And it is even worse. They now have $600,000 of debt.

Long time reader, first time poster. I thought I'd chime in before we throw Ramit completely under the bus.

The transcript for that episode is here:
https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/004-wendy-john/

The crucial piece of info is this bit:

Ramit Sethi: [00:21:12] Here’s what John is saying. Because of his income-based repayment plan, the debt is going to be forgiven in a matter of years, he just has to keep paying some amount towards it. So, to him, it makes no sense to pay extra when it’s going to be forgiven anyway.

It sounds like the husband is on a loan repayment program where he pays a certain percentage of his salary every month, and after something like 20 years, whatever loan amount remaining is forgiven. Perhaps it's one of these programs:
https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/repayment/plans/income-driven

So it's not a $450k (or $600k) loan, it's an obligation to pay $2000 per month over the next 10 years. Any additional loan payments would be throwing money away. Highlighting the outstanding balance is misleading, and a bit clickbaity. I'm not commenting on whether this was a good plan to begin with, but it's what they have.

It seems to me that the episode is more about the lack of communication between husband and wife. If he's banking their financial future on this repayment program, and she's the type of person who wants all the details wrapped up, she's definitely going to want to see paperwork and documentation that will prove to her that his plan is sound.

But the no health insurance thing? During COVID?? WTF

I'm no expert on this, but over the years I have read literally hundreds of threads with people warning to be very, VERY careful about depending on loan forgiveness plans.

Also, the dude is a dentist. Aren't those plans depending on working for some kind of government organization??

If so, the chances of a dentist wanting to do that for 20 years instead of being self employed are extremely slim, because it would horribly limit their career and earning potential.

Ramit just sounds in way over his head on this. I literally advised new dentists in how to manage their debt professionally, and to me, this sounds like a terrible plan.

Again, I'm not an expert on US loans, loan forgiveness, or even the intricacies of US dentists, but it sounds just dumb to me.