Pre-ER Guilt

[Dawg Fan]

By all of my analysis/paralysis, I am 4 - 5 yrs (55) from ER, but am already suffering from a combination of guilt/fear/pre-OMY syndrome. My profile is different than most of the MMM truests, but I none the less try and subscribe (relatively speaking) to many of the MMM principles with a further goal of weaning off as much of my useles shit as I can over the next 5 yrs. A quick backround which plays into my jitters...

- Married, 4 kids, 2 out of college, 2 in college, 1 getting married (yes, girl $$$!), wife has been a home mama for over 25 yrs... we are an old school traditional valued family where daddy hunts, kills the food, and brings it home.
- Been self employed for over 28 yrs so my income varies, but averages mid + 6 figures... don't judge me MMM purest, but this plays into my dilemma.
- Being self employed means all my future retirement income comes from my investments (I.e. Real estate, stocks/bonds), no pension.
- Big saver, always lived below my means

So, my math says I should be able to generate my projected income goals when I turn 55 (last kid graduates college) and short of 3 more weddings (2 more girls... SOB!!), my heavy lifting should be done. My hope is I use the next 4-5 yrs to minimize these concerns, which are frankly more emotionally driven, but when you have been "pulling the sled" your whole life, I am having a hard time "removing the straps" as there is this feeling of always being responsible for making sure everything/everyone is taken care of. I don't hate my work, but frankly want to do other things (not 100% sure what that is yet) while I am younger/healthier. The flip side is I feel like I could be leaving significant $ on the table and if I do put my business down, it would be tough to jump back in a few yrs later and replace what I currently can generate. So some of the guilt/fear/OMG comes from 1) leaving during "productive years", 2) mindset of always "taking care of everyone/thing" and giving up some of that perceived security by not working 3) guilt of if I am not working, I'm not productive... feeling a little self focused/entitled.
So my plan is to work thru most of this the next few years (before I go to a therapist!) and make peace with it, but would love to hear from others on how they tackled these demons.

[RoseRelish]

Can you find somebody to run your business for a salary? This way you'll still get some income from the business and retain the option of re-joining if things go south and/or you get bored?

[Rosbif]

Firstly, pour yourself a beer and give yourself a hefty pat on the back. You've achieved a lot!

Financially, it sounds like you're set.

If you bankrolled your kids through college and paid for weddings, then you've launched them in a way most couldn't dream of. My own view is that it's not our jobs as parents to carry kids their whole lives, but to raise productive adults who can fend for themselves. If you have a provider mindset, I can see that this may be tough for you.

Leaving money on the table is something that will happen one day, if you choose to retire. The only question is when. Assuming your work takes up time in your life, you'll stop thinking of it as leaving money on the table when your desire to have more free time outweighs your desire to have more money. Then, it'll become "amazing, I have enough put by to do what I like without wasting time on work".

As for the lack of productivity / feeling selfish (despite a life spent providing for others ;) ), pour that energy into a (non-ruinous) hobby, or maybe charity work?

Right, now you've read all that, you probably deserve two beers :)

[Financial.Velociraptor]

When I went FIRE, the boss man and more senior boss men tried to talk me out of leaving the company.  They put together a spreadsheet showing a conservative projected future income (my low six figures with 3% annual raises) from my intended FIRE date at age 40 to just a traditional 55 retirement.  Assumed investing a portion in bonds with a 6% annual return.  It was pretty clear that I was walking away from literally millions of dollars.

I got over it.

You can too.

FIRE since 5OCT2012 and couldn't be happier.  I live entirely off passive income (dividends, interest, and other distributions) and haven't sweated it. 

You have this.

[brooklynguy]

OP, your post reads like a cry for MMM-style face-punch-filled help, so that's what I'm going to give you.

This is a website designed to awaken the masses to the possibility of reclaiming their lives from corporate wage slavery and expose Western society's unwritten rule against early retirement for the sham it actually is.  Each of the concerns you have expressed is part of the set of elementary fears surrounding the idea of early retirement held by the uninitiated and has already been extensively addressed in MMM's blog posts (not to mention the forum and the wider financial independence blogosphere).

Leaving money on the table?  Who gives a shit!  Once you've got "enough," what good does having more do you?  Moreover, if you were to voluntarily choose to retire at the ripe old age of 99, you'd still be leaving money on the table!

Possible end of personal productivity?  Don't be unproductive in retirement!  (Or do, if that's what you want.)

Your fears are especially overblown in light of your targeted early retirement date.  You are shooting for an early retirement commencing a mere ten years before traditional retirement age, for crying out loud!  My goal is to pull the plug in 3ish years, at 38, with a then 6-year old and 9-year old, and I'm on the conservative side of the spectrum around here!  We're surrounded by badass twenty-somethings with plans to retire at 30 (or younger) and first start making babies after commencing retirement.  Listen to the advice of those who have let go of their reservations and done it already, and use the means at your disposal (earned through your history of making good decisions) to take control and live the life you want to live.

[Cathy]

OP says that she or he has been earning "mid + 6 figures" for 28 years. The midpoint of "6 figures" would be around $500,000 per year. I am interpreting the plus symbol as saying it was higher than that. But even if it was only $500,000 per year, and even if we assume a 50% average tax rate, a very high spending rate of $70,000 per year, and 0% investment return over the entire 28 years, then OP would now have an investment portfolio worth over $5 million, with a withdraw rate of about 1.4%. And that doesn't even include OP's business equity, which is probably worth millions of dollars.

OP, why aren't you already retired?

[Rollin]

By all of my analysis/paralysis, I am 4 - 5 yrs (55) from ER, but am already suffering from a combination of guilt/fear/pre-OMY syndrome. My profile is different than most of the MMM truests, but I none the less try and subscribe (relatively speaking) to many of the MMM principles with a further goal of weaning off as much of my useles shit as I can over the next 5 yrs. A quick backround which plays into my jitters...

- Married, 4 kids, 2 out of college, 2 in college, 1 getting married (yes, girl $$$!), wife has been a home mama for over 25 yrs... we are an old school traditional valued family where daddy hunts, kills the food, and brings it home.
- Been self employed for over 28 yrs so my income varies, but averages mid + 6 figures... don't judge me MMM purest, but this plays into my dilemma.
- Being self employed means all my future retirement income comes from my investments (I.e. Real estate, stocks/bonds), no pension.
- Big saver, always lived below my means

So, my math says I should be able to generate my projected income goals when I turn 55 (last kid graduates college) and short of 3 more weddings (2 more girls... SOB!!), my heavy lifting should be done. My hope is I use the next 4-5 yrs to minimize these concerns, which are frankly more emotionally driven, but when you have been "pulling the sled" your whole life, I am having a hard time "removing the straps" as there is this feeling of always being responsible for making sure everything/everyone is taken care of. I don't hate my work, but frankly want to do other things (not 100% sure what that is yet) while I am younger/healthier. The flip side is I feel like I could be leaving significant $ on the table and if I do put my business down, it would be tough to jump back in a few yrs later and replace what I currently can generate. So some of the guilt/fear/OMG comes from 1) leaving during "productive years", 2) mindset of always "taking care of everyone/thing" and giving up some of that perceived security by not working 3) guilt of if I am not working, I'm not productive... feeling a little self focused/entitled.
So my plan is to work thru most of this the next few years (before I go to a therapist!) and make peace with it, but would love to hear from others on how they tackled these demons.

I was where you are once (just one less kiddie), but in time it'll come together.  It just doesn't happen all of a sudden, but over time with your working towards FIRE you'll finally realize that there doesn't need to be OMY.  Then, you'll take that leap!

[mandy_2002]

Please, for the love of your daughters, put the first one on a budget with her wedding.  There's a statistic out there that the more you spend on a wedding (basically, the more fairy tale it is), the higher the rate of divorce.  ("Specifically, the study found that women whose wedding cost more than $20,000 divorced at a rate roughly 1.6 times higher than women whose wedding cost between $5,000 and $10,000.") 

Give each of the girls the same amount (a friend of mine did $5,000, another $10,000), but you can do $30k, $50k, or more if you so desire.  The great thing about this is that they can each decide how to spend it when the time comes.  If they want a $10,000 dress and a $30,000 wedding with a $50k budget, they get $10k for a honeymoon or a chunk for a house downpayment.  If they get married with a justice of the peace, they get ~$49,900 for their new life together.  You could even tack a growth rate on if you're worried about inflation being an issue. 

[Dawg Fan]

I knew I would get kicked in the nuts by some of you when I mentioned my income which I brought up only because I think the higher your income, the harder sometimes it is to give it up. And no, it has not been 28 yrs, but plenty of yrs of high income to fund a high consumption (by MMM terms), yet strong savings rate to get me to my target. As mentioned, my objective is to try and wean off much of my (and wife's) consumer life style and focus on spending $$ on experiences (i.e. trips, family gatherings, bucket list) while getting rid of the shit. I have always lived below my means subscribing to the Millionaire Next Store approach to life (before I discovered MMM), but we do reward ourselves with certain luxuries without sacrificing the end game. Life is about balance folks and one person's balance may look different than another's. I was interested to hear how some particularly higher earners and those who might have run a similar family structure path mental/emotionally made the transition.
I appreciate some of the constructive feedback so far. And yes, I know daughter 2 & 3 are watching where the "number" is so I am playing my hand accordingly.

[Cathy]

I knew I would get kicked in the nuts by some of you when I mentioned my income...

I think you might misunderstand. I'm impressed that you've built a business that generates a relatively high income. That's a good thing and no negative judgment is being made. I encourage everybody to earn as much money as possible in order to reach retirement faster. It's possible to retire with a working career earning only $100,000 or even $30,000 per year, but why would you want to, when you could be earning more instead? I applaud your successful efforts to maximise your income.

What is surprising, however, is that you are contemplating working for several more years before being ready to retire, even though you already have more than enough money to retire with a luxurious lifestyle.

[StockBeard]

Just like Cathy mentioned, have you done the math? Maybe you already have more than 25 times your expenses by now? In which case, you are already providing for your family through passive income, therefore you can remove that guilt out of the equation?

Based on your description it does sound like you probably already have enough that you could retire even without changing your lifestyle?

[Basenji]

OP, your post reads like a cry for MMM-style face-punch-filled help, so that's what I'm going to give you.

This is a website designed to awaken the masses to the possibility of reclaiming their lives from corporate wage slavery and expose Western society's unwritten rule against early retirement for the sham it actually is.

Beautiful, perfect.

[Dawg Fan]

Yes, I have run some different math models, but I am also still playing around with different income levels I want to sustain relative to what kind of life post FIRE I want to support. This is part of what I want to further define as I explore some of my perceived post FIRE wants over the next 4 - 5 yrs... to basically see if I really want to make them part of my future life style overhead. I have a number pegged right now, but that could go up/down depending upon where I settle on my number. On paper, I have certain ideas (i.e. live 3 - 5 month's in Italy) that cost $$$ I may want to indulge in..., but maybe not. Yes, I know... "rich people" problems... I am not complaining. 55 has always been my target date as that is when my last kid graduates college and most of my heavy lifting will be done. Mentally, I just want to see my overhead/cash flow drop to post-kid life expenses before I FIRE. Plus, I am enjoying my work presently, but can see 55 as a year where I may be less interested in running the race. I realize I am not traditional MMM material compared to most people on this site, I none the less appreciate the general philosophy/approach and look to learn from others and apply it to my world. The principles are the same regardless of income and assets as far as I am concerned.

[StockBeard]

I realize I am not traditional MMM material compared to most people on this site

I think you can set the limits you are comfortable with, and still be "mustachian". Some of us target 25'000 yearly budgets, others, I'm sure, target 10 times that.

[Eric]

You may be interested in this thread:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/%27one-more-year%27-strikes-the-rich-the-hardest/

[Dawg Fan]

@eric. Good stuff. I must have missed this when I was looking for a similar subject matter before posting. Most of the MMM profiles I have seen on this site seem to be singles or 2 income married folks. I have not read of many that are loaded up with kids and had made certain choices to have mama stay at home. Not judging the 2 working parent families as this was my choice. The point I am trying to make is supporting a family of 6 on 1 income and saving for ER (in my case, 55 feels like ER), takes some effort. Having experienced/experiencing the cost of kids from 13 - out of college/wedding), I can tell you braces, cars, car accidents, insurance, private school (special needs kid), proms, computers, college, ... need I go on, will hit your budget hard. Yes, I could live in a tee pee, grow my own veggies, only ride bikes, home school, and use recycled toilet paper, but I don't think that is how most of us really want to live. I commend you super young FIRE-ees (under 40) who have kids, but be warned of the snowball of kid expenses rolling down the hill... you may be in for an ER surprise.
I know the MMM hard asses get off on seeing who can be the frugal king, but as mentioned earlier, there is a live now/live later personal balance we all need to figure out and for some of the hard asses out there, you may be giving up some of the fruits of your labor to say you won the game at 30, 40. Look, for some their job is a bitch and the trade off of not working again is worth a minimalist life style... Fantastic! Again, personal choices, so no judgement here, just suggesting there might be some experiences, and yes, even some materialistic bullshit you may want experience/have in your younger more active years that you are forfeiting in exchange for ER bragging rights and super frugal life style... Balance, balance.
Shit! I just re read this and I sound like an anti-mustacian! Forgive me, I am selling everything tomorrow and buying a ten speed!
Don't get pissed off, just an opinion.

[Rollin]

I knew I would get kicked in the nuts by some of you when I mentioned my income which I brought up only because I think the higher your income, the harder sometimes it is to give it up. And no, it has not been 28 yrs, but plenty of yrs of high income to fund a high consumption (by MMM terms), yet strong savings rate to get me to my target. As mentioned, my objective is to try and wean off much of my (and wife's) consumer life style and focus on spending $$ on experiences (i.e. trips, family gatherings, bucket list) while getting rid of the shit. I have always lived below my means subscribing to the Millionaire Next Store approach to life (before I discovered MMM), but we do reward ourselves with certain luxuries without sacrificing the end game. Life is about balance folks and one person's balance may look different than another's. I was interested to hear how some particularly higher earners and those who might have run a similar family structure path mental/emotionally made the transition.
I appreciate some of the constructive feedback so far. And yes, I know daughter 2 & 3 are watching where the "number" is so I am playing my hand accordingly.

I may be wrong, but we don't see many of you high earners here :) - and I think that is great that you are!  It just goes to show one that the need to jump off the work treadmill at sometime can be the same regardless of income level.  Like you said though, at your pay rate it would be a tougher choice.  I even think that at my rate because in my circle it is considered high as well.

However, at the rate at which you earned and the likely higher level of consumption I would think reducing unneeded expenditures and selling off some unneeded valuables might be easier because there is likely a lot to shoot at (or as I say sometimes a "target rich environment).

Glad you are here.

[Rollin]

@eric. Good stuff. I must have missed this when I was looking for a similar subject matter before posting. Most of the MMM profiles I have seen on this site seem to be singles or 2 income married folks. I have not read of many that are loaded up with kids and had made certain choices to have mama stay at home. Not judging the 2 working parent families as this was my choice. The point I am trying to make is supporting a family of 6 on 1 income and saving for ER (in my case, 55 feels like ER), takes some effort. Having experienced/experiencing the cost of kids from 13 - out of college/wedding), I can tell you braces, cars, car accidents, insurance, private school (special needs kid), proms, computers, college, ... need I go on, will hit your budget hard. Yes, I could live in a tee pee, grow my own veggies, only ride bikes, home school, and use recycled toilet paper, but I don't think that is how most of us really want to live. I commend you super young FIRE-ees (under 40) who have kids, but be warned of the snowball of kid expenses rolling down the hill... you may be in for an ER surprise.
I know the MMM hard asses get off on seeing who can be the frugal king, but as mentioned earlier, there is a live now/live later personal balance we all need to figure out and for some of the hard asses out there, you may be giving up some of the fruits of your labor to say you won the game at 30, 40. Look, for some their job is a bitch and the trade off of not working again is worth a minimalist life style... Fantastic! Again, personal choices, so no judgement here, just suggesting there might be some experiences, and yes, even some materialistic bullshit you may want experience/have in your younger more active years that you are forfeiting in exchange for ER bragging rights and super frugal life style... Balance, balance.
Shit! I just re read this and I sound like an anti-mustacian! Forgive me, I am selling everything tomorrow and buying a ten speed!
Don't get pissed off, just an opinion.

Make sure you get that used, needing a little work that you learn to do yourself, and that it has room for a rack/baskets, and fenders : ) !

[Dawg Fan]

Just here to learn from those who have gone before me...

I will also get a tow hitch for my ten speed to tow my gas guzzling luxury SUV!

Seriously, the principles are same regardless of where you are on the asset/income spectrum. While I probably look like a capitalist pig to most on this site, the ER $20K - $30K/yr spenders look like pigs to much of the rest of the world (particularly, 3rd world countries). We are all "rich" to live in the USA (and/or other free societies). When you really think about it, we are all damn lucky to be able to make these choices and control some of our destiny.

[Lucky Girl]

OP, I am possibly more like you than many of the posters here as we have a high income level and lifestyle.  I only have two kids and we are dual earner family, and I am also a bit younger at 37.

My DH is the main earner, and for a while I worked part time.  We have always treated his as the critical job and mine as secondary, so I think I can appreciate that provider mentality.  I think the point you need to see is that you have done it!  You provided for your family.  Mission accomplished.  Anything else you are bringing in is more than enough.  In some ways, choosing to spend more could be detrimental (big, spendy, wasteful weddings that are bad for the environment and give your kids a sense of entitlement perhaps?)

You mentioned that parents of young kids who retire early may not be prepared, but I think you may not be giving mustachians enough credit.  At our current income level we send two kids to private school, and could buy them a car when they are 16, send them to the best camps/colleges, and rescue our kids with money at every step.  But that is not going to teach my kids independence, resiliency, or the ability to make a buck and save it now will it?

My parents raiied me to appreciate the value of a dollar, and I will do the same for my own children, by not buying them everything I could.  I had loans for college and grad school, and some of those loans my parents provided at a low (but reasonable for them) interest rate.  My dad retired at 54.  He consults for fun now when he wants, and does all the travel he can within a reasonable budget.  They are happy, and I am independent and successful (as are my two sisters).  Win-win.

[Dawg Fan]

@Lucky Girl. When it comes to instilling your values on your kids you are definitely thinking the right way. My guess is your kids are under 10 -12? I come from very Midwest blue collar stock and married a girl who had a much more entitled life than I did. My kids worked since they were 14/15, had responsibilities, dad gifted them a used car with 100K mi when they graduated high school, I paid for their in state college and so far I have 2 out of college with jobs who are good citizens and don't call me for $. However, their peers drove new BMWs, never had a job growing up, got all the bling/clothes, etc and too your point, do not have a "tool kit" to do life on their own. I hope you stick to your guns as you navigate the interesting teenage to young adult years, but until you run that gauntlet never say never. I ended up doing many things I said I would never do (I.e. I said I would NEVER have 6 cars in my driveway... and guess what?). What I can say so far is I have good kids who seem to be equipped (so far) to do life. One other point I would suggest to you... when you come from lesser means/status/class and work hard/smart to create a better life there is a little battle that goes on inside of you that wants to reward the loved one's in your life with the fruits of your labor. Not sure that is a bad thing if appropriately done and properly communicated.

[Pika]

My background is not that dissimilar to yours - I was in commercial real estate finance for about twenty years before I pulled the rip cord last year and retired.  My spending and assets are quite a bit higher than the norm for this board, but I would agree that the math is all the same.

I find it really telling that you started this thread by calling it "Pre-ER Guilt" instead of "Pre-ER Fear" or something else. Part of your ER journey is going to have to be getting over that guilt that you won "the game" and others did not.  I am sure that you didn't succeed by just sitting back and waiting for the deals to roll in.  There are also many others that also earned the big bucks, but didn't chose to buy a new car every other year instead of saving your windfalls.  How many of your colleagues have ever lived below their means like you did?! I can tell you that next to none of mine did.  I am sure you just got lucky sometimes, but luck has a strange way of favoring the prepared.  You probably earned what you got, so you just have to get over the guilt.  Besides, retirement will give you the time that you probably lacked before to give back to society.

Secondly, if you still like what you do, don't retire.  FI and ER are two different things.  Maybe try just being FI, and tailoring your work to only take on jobs you want to do and clients that you actually respect.  Don't let your fear hold you back here - once people know that you can walk away from the game, your time becomes more valuable in other peoples' eyes.  You could also try going part-time and becoming a consultant or a broker - even if you don't do any actual work, this is a great transition step to actual retirement.  Your colleagues will be less freaked out by your change, and it could conceivably keep your foot in the door if you change your mind.

If you find that work is boring you, get out.  Once you are FI, your motivation is going to drop through the floor unless you actually like what you do.  Get out of the business before your game slips, even if you don't know what you next move will be.

Keep in mind that your goal of downsizing is a worthy one in and of itself, and you should probably be pursuing it regardless of your financial path.  With kids leaving the house, you are doing to need to part with a bunch of stuff anyway.  Just make sure your wife leads the charge on this - for years, the home has probably been her domain and she does not want you messing with it.  (I learned the hard way on that one.)  Sign her up for a "Real Simple" magazine subscription, and see if she takes to it.  If not, back off and wait until the time is right.  I imagine that she is going through her own life crisis as well with almost all of her children being out of college.

I can't emphasize enough that you need to get a game plan worked out together with your wife instead of in isolation.  Divorces are statistically much more common than 50% market corrections, but the impact on your net worth can be the same.

Sorry - don't want to end on a negative note.  It sounds like you rocked it on the financial side, now just do the same on your personal life. 

[Dawg Fan]

@Pika
Good thoughts. As official empty nesters now, plans are to start doing some dry runs on ER. I still have to get thru 1 wedding next month, but wife and I are going to start doing more on our bucket list to see if what we envisioned on paper is really how we want to run in ER. Short of 3 more weddings (2 more girls), I feel like the heavy lifting is done. Still need to get 2 more thru college, but that has been addressed financially. No doubt I am very thankful for all my good fortune in life, so this post was not meant to be a complaint. All the ERs on this site are pure inspiration to me, regardless of what their annual budgets are. Point I was trying to get across is when you are one man (PC... person) pulling the financial sled since kid 1 was born and its loaded with 6 peeps and the day comes when you are ready to pull the cord, there is this a force that keeps you second guessing and asking "what if". Maybe its the Matrix, not sure, but there is something about shutting down the machine that makes me feel a little vulnerable. Yes, I could find some quasi part time way to generate income, but as you said, once FI, motivation will drop and I foresee that. I think this is more about choosing the right pill and getting out of the Matrix.

[Pika]

I know exactly what you mean.  A job isn't just a source of income, but of identity as well.   Right now, you probably are a player in your field.  Once you retire, you become just another retired guy, which can actually be pretty rough on the ego.   That being said, you will probably become a much better husband, father, friend, etc., which will likely be much better for your sense of self in the long run. 

[FrogStash]

I can't wait until I'm FIRED and some asks the tired old cocktail party question, "So, what do you do?"  I make a conscious effort not to be defined by my paying job but now I usually play along and answer their question in hopes of steering the conversation somewhere interesting.  After FIRE, I may just answer, "I breathe an awful lot, and blink pretty often too.  What do you do?"

[Gone Fishing]

"I breathe an awful lot, and blink pretty often too.  What do you do?"

Good one!

[CommonCents]

Why does it matter whether you have girls or boys as far as paying anything towards weddings?  Presumably you'll be inviting about the same number of relatives to the son's wedding as you do to the daughters' weddings, so the "cost" to them is about the same.  Why does the gender matter?  Honestly, it's terrifically outdated notion that the brides parents pay for the wedding (and a dowry!) because they were getting rid of a dependent that the husband would need to support.  Now both men and women have jobs (and we recognize that contributions at home are valuable too).  Please treat all of your kids equally - whether that's giving nothing or giving the same "something" towards their weddings (adjusted for inflation or however else you like).

[Fishingmn]

Why does it matter whether you have girls or boys as far as paying anything towards weddings?  Presumably you'll be inviting about the same number of relatives to the son's wedding as you do to the daughters' weddings, so the "cost" to them is about the same.  Why does the gender matter?  Honestly, it's terrifically outdated notion that the brides parents pay for the wedding (and a dowry!) because they were getting rid of a dependent that the husband would need to support.  Now both men and women have jobs (and we recognize that contributions at home are valuable too).  Please treat all of your kids equally - whether that's giving nothing or giving the same "something" towards their weddings (adjusted for inflation or however else you like).

This is very true.

We have budgeted the same amount for both children (boy & girl) and friends we know are planning the same.

[Miss Prim]

I agree about the wedding bit.  My parents paid for my college education, but they would not pay for my wedding and I never expected them to.  My husband and I were both working so we paid for our own wedding.  I've followed the same plan with my kids. 

We did give my daughter $3000 toward her wedding and the grooms parents gave them $5000.  They came up with the rest on their own.  When my son decides to get married, we will give him the same amount of money.  Honestly, if they have to pay for it themselves, they tend to not spend as much and that is good.  And seriously, if they have to pay for it, I would hope that they would be sure that their partner is the right one for them.

                                                                  Miss Prim

[PhysicianOnFIRE]

Like you, I could see myself retiring in 5 years (at age 45), but may very well work a few more.  It can feel selfish to walk away in one's prime, but I look at how much I give up right now, sacrificing sleep and family time every week. 

To defeat that guilt, I plan to beef up my donor advised fund to 10% of my nest egg, and I'll be able to give from that indefinitely when I'm not earning a paycheck.  Donating while I have a high income will be advantageous from a tax standpoint.  It will cost me about 60k for every 100k I donate.  And I'll be donating my mutual funds that have the most capital gains (assuming they have some gains by then!)

I will also be superfunding my boys' 529s so that they could pay for undergrad and grad school and perhaps still have some seed $ left over to fund their kids' education someday.

[asauer]

The good news is that your anxiety is coming from a good place!  You want to make sure everyone is taken care of.  So, I just think that some reframing is all you need.  Let's take them one by one:
1) leaving during "productive years": Yes- these years ARE productive!  Is this work the ONLY way you can be productive?  Is your only role to make money?  What about the emotional support and care you provide to your adult children?  You would now be able to channel more energy to that.  What about passion projects that may not exactly be $ earners.  Productivity can come from helping an organization achieve a goal through your work and energy.

2) mindset of always "taking care of everyone/thing" and giving up some of that perceived security by not working: You're not changing the fact that you want to take care of everyone, just how you do it.  Now, you get to take care of your wife and your marriage by pouring more quality time into it- doing the things you put off b/c of work etc.  Also, your kids are adults now (hooray!) so you get to now take care of them in a different way- supporting them with advice, emotional support.  Doesn't have to be $ now b/c they're making their own.  Also, remember that now you get to take care of yourself in a way that perhaps you haven't been able to do in a very long time.  Taking care of you is going to ensure that you're around to provide all this emotional care for the others in your life (and grandchildren someday?)

3) Guilt of if I am not working, I'm not productive- see above.  There are SO many ways of defining productivity that don't earn a paycheck.  For example, take your wife.  You said that she doesn't earn a paycheck.  Is she not productive?  I know a retired person who volunteers 20hrs/ week at Habitat for Humanity for capital campaigns doing web design which has increased site traffic 20%- is that not productive? 

Seems like you need to take some time to do some redefining and reframing.  Good luck!!

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Sounds like you are more up against time than money.  I'm in a similar situation, but being younger it is not quite as clearly defined as you (feel more obligated to pull the sled until the kids start college, although if I get laid off I won't be in any hurry to find a job).  There have been similar threads (probably lots of them) discussing this recently here and here.

I especially like the concept of the ER 'tipping point' in the second link.  I think most retired folks pass a point when they feel 100% ready to let go (or get laid off and give other ventures or ER a spin).  Spend some time with the idea of retirement as a reality (maybe take more time off if you can) and see if you prefer pursuing your own interests and being retired.  Also, start getting the family prepared for the idea that you plan to retire soon to pursue x, y, z if that's where you decide you are headed...  Good luck!   

[YeahNo]

I knew I would get kicked in the nuts by some of you when I mentioned my income which I brought up only because I think the higher your income, the harder sometimes it is to give it up. And no, it has not been 28 yrs, but plenty of yrs of high income to fund a high consumption (by MMM terms), yet strong savings rate to get me to my target. As mentioned, my objective is to try and wean off much of my (and wife's) consumer life style and focus on spending $$ on experiences (i.e. trips, family gatherings, bucket list) while getting rid of the shit. I have always lived below my means subscribing to the Millionaire Next Store approach to life (before I discovered MMM), but we do reward ourselves with certain luxuries without sacrificing the end game. Life is about balance folks and one person's balance may look different than another's. I was interested to hear how some particularly higher earners and those who might have run a similar family structure path mental/emotionally made the transition.
I appreciate some of the constructive feedback so far. And yes, I know daughter 2 & 3 are watching where the "number" is so I am playing my hand accordingly.

Exactly my friend. My advice is to not give a sh*t about the opinions of these guys who'v never even made a quarter of what you have made yearly. I'm highly confident that barely any of them would actually live on those 25k/year expenses if they were bringing in 600k/year. For some perspective, I've made about what you've made for the last 5-6 years and I feel like I am very aggressive with saving. We live on around 100k/year (that includes mortgage w/ extra principle). Don't judge yourself based on the expenses of someone that brings in 80k/year income.

[Rollin]

@Pika
Good thoughts. As official empty nesters now, plans are to start doing some dry runs on ER. I still have to get thru 1 wedding next month, but wife and I are going to start doing more on our bucket list to see if what we envisioned on paper is really how we want to run in ER. Short of 3 more weddings (2 more girls), I feel like the heavy lifting is done. Still need to get 2 more thru college, but that has been addressed financially. No doubt I am very thankful for all my good fortune in life, so this post was not meant to be a complaint. All the ERs on this site are pure inspiration to me, regardless of what their annual budgets are. Point I was trying to get across is when you are one man (PC... person) pulling the financial sled since kid 1 was born and its loaded with 6 peeps and the day comes when you are ready to pull the cord, there is this a force that keeps you second guessing and asking "what if". Maybe its the Matrix, not sure, but there is something about shutting down the machine that makes me feel a little vulnerable. Yes, I could find some quasi part time way to generate income, but as you said, once FI, motivation will drop and I foresee that. I think this is more about choosing the right pill and getting out of the Matrix.

Dawg Fan - I re-read this thread and am seeing something different.  Maybe not.  Anyway, I don't read anything about you taking care of yourself.  Are you feeling selfish for wanting to pull the cord on ER?  You are pulling the sled for the others in your life (granted, you are benefitting), but when you "stop' are you worried about being perceived as quitting?  If those two emotions/thoughts are what is really under all this let us know, because I am sure many here have experienced those and can offer guidance.

[rockstache]

Please treat all of your kids equally - whether that's giving nothing or giving the same "something" towards their weddings (adjusted for inflation or however else you like).

+1

If you plan on treating your kids equally regarding inheritance, and not giving the male heir the whole estate (tongue in cheek - I'm hoping you don't really intend to do that), then you should probably give him the same amount for his wedding.

[Dicey]

It's been six months, I wonder what dang fan has decided to do.

[arebelspy]

It's been six months, I wonder what dang fan has decided to do.

He posted he was still years from FIRE, just trying to work through some of this.. so probably still that.  :)