Post Fire on a small stache?

[Tom Bri]

Wondering what the lowest stashe anyone here has actually retired on.
I am in kind of a weird position, have a pretty good stash by non-mustachian standards, zero debt since 1994, house and cars bought with cash, but at age 54 just graduating from school and starting a new career, so not feeling like retiring just yet, till I get some use out of my expensive education.
But the lure of retirement is there. I can see myself selling the house and downsizing, trading in the big vehicle for a hybrid, and spending my afternoons writing novels (have one on Amazon, did fairly well). The spouse would object, but...the allure.
Any thoughts?

[RoseRelish]

If you could get your spending down to $10k/year, you could retire on $250k of a nest egg. That level of spending seems achievable if you're willing to cut to the bone and really simplify.

[Neustache]

My plan is to quit full-time work by the age of 45 to quit full time work and have both of us (DH plus me) work part-time to pay our yearly expenses of 40K and let our stash grow and not touch our rental income. 

Can you work part-time somewhere?

[forummm]

Jakob of Early Retirement Extreme retired with a $7000 annual spend and around $300k saved (more than he needed at that low of a spend rate). Last I saw he has something like 70x his annual spend saved up.

[UnleashHell]

If you could get your spending down to $10k/year, you could retire on $250k of a nest egg. That level of spending seems achievable if you're willing to cut to the bone and really simplify.

Depends on your age, when you can collect SS and how much that is. The SS payout for me and my wife would be about 30k. Thats more than our outgoings so we would only need to cover the years between now and when we collect.

your 10k a year and 250k nest egg would last 25 years to SS without it producing any extra income.
250k returning 5% a year and a 10k PA increasing at 3% would last for 36 years.
even 15k a year in expenses would last 20 years. In theory if someone is aged 47 and is going to collect SS that will cover their expenses in 20 years then 250k would be enough.  A few part time jobs for extras wouldn't hurt it though.

[Hank Sinatra]

Wondering what the lowest stashe anyone here has actually retired on.
I am in kind of a weird position, have a pretty good stash by non-mustachian standards, zero debt since 1994, house and cars bought with cash, but at age 54 just graduating from school and starting a new career, so not feeling like retiring just yet, till I get some use out of my expensive education.
But the lure of retirement is there. I can see myself selling the house and downsizing, trading in the big vehicle for a hybrid, and spending my afternoons writing novels (have one on Amazon, did fairly well). The spouse would object, but...the allure.   Any thoughts? 

Counting my personal bag o' money, monetizing my small pension, and including imputed market value of ex-employer provided medical policy I FIREd with between $750,000.00 and $800,000.00.  The medical policy value was a bit over $200,000 of that. 

[Hank Sinatra]

I've got my base-level expenses down to around $500 - $600/month. That includes everything for single, childless, debt free me like prop taxes and insurance on the paid off house, utilities, car insurance and tags, medical (free or low cost thru the VA for me), food (dog and I), and gas for the car. That allows me to have a nice FIRE life doing all sorts of fun things that don't cost very much or are free.  However that amount needs to be off set to cover unexpected things like home and car repairs, dental for me, vet care for the pup, or anything else that crops up. So while technically I can live on a small amount and thus could have a small stash, if the OP plans to live like that you need to have either extra income or a decent sized emergency fund to use when needed or structure your life so those emergency things will never crop up (like get rid of the car so you never have to worry about car repairs). I have both a larger stash as well as a larger income ($1500/month from government pension and VA benefit combined) and use the extra to cover those things  - or to travel or do more costly things if I want.

Definitely. I  sort of keep 2 sets of books to compare at year's end. How much it cost me to just live . Routine expenses. And everything else I had to spend on that's not routine or even predictable but without which I would not be able to have a life.

Your circumstances  sound a lot like mine. Single, no debt, small dog, but I'll be damned if I can get my monthly routine expenses  down that low. I life in an large empty low cost State too. Do you live in an unusually low cost area?  Or maybe I just count too many nit-noi expenses as "Routine"?

[Cookie78]

I haven't FIREd yet, but I wanted to post to follow. I've estimated I can get down to 14k/year, but I should have 500k-550k when I pull the plug. Some of the extra growth can be used for emergencies and the rest can continue to grow.

I am not sure I want to live on $14k/year forever since I also won't own my own house, but for the first 10 years minimum I don't expect any issues living on a low budget.

[2Birds1Stone]

My FI point will be ~$450k, though I plan on continuing to work in some capacity till I double that in order to be able to enjoy $18k a year on travel, hobbies, philanthropy etc.

[Cassie]

Can you work p.t. in your new career field?

[Dicey]

Wondering what the lowest stashe anyone here has actually retired on.
I am in kind of a weird position, have a pretty good stash by non-mustachian standards, zero debt since 1994, house and cars bought with cash, but at age 54 just graduating from school and starting a new career, so not feeling like retiring just yet, till I get some use out of my expensive education.
But the lure of retirement is there. I can see myself selling the house and downsizing, trading in the big vehicle for a hybrid, and spending my afternoons writing novels (have one on Amazon, did fairly well). The spouse would object, but...the allure.
Any thoughts?

Tough mustachian (not the real me) wants to stand arms akimbo and demand "Why the fuck did you just buy an expensive education if you want to retire early?"
Nicer mustachian (the real me) says, "Ooh, did you study something fun that you can do for the rest of your life?"

I've got my base-level expenses down to around $500 - $600/month. That includes everything for single, childless, debt free me like prop taxes and insurance on the paid off house, utilities, car insurance and tags, medical (free or low cost thru the VA for me), food (dog and I), and gas for the car. That allows me to have a nice FIRE life doing all sorts of fun things that don't cost very much or are free.  However that amount needs to be off set to cover unexpected things like home and car repairs, dental for me, vet care for the pup, or anything else that crops up. So while technically I can live on a small amount and thus could have a small stash, if the OP plans to live like that you need to have either extra income or a decent sized emergency fund to use when needed or structure your life so those emergency things will never crop up (like get rid of the car so you never have to worry about car repairs). I have both a larger stash as well as a larger income ($1500/month from government pension and VA benefit combined) and use the extra to cover those things  - or to travel or do more costly things if I want.

Any non-mustachian who lives in a  SoCal beach town would proclaim that what you're doing can't be done. You are a rock star, spartana!

[pbkmaine]

Spartana, I am curious. Why would you want to leave when you can live there so inexpensively?

[Tom Bri]

Wow, thanks, cool responses. I got the expensive education started before I ever considered early retirement, since I never ran the numbers and realized how close I am. Looking back, if I had understood this in 2005, I could have retired in about 2010. Wasted years.
I could do it now, but at a very low level. No thanks. Will work a few more years at least. Spouse and I have no problem saving and keeping costs low, been doing it together since mid 1990s.
My new career allows great flexibility, from full time to huge overtime to floating pool. So all cool, can retire and still get a good safe stream of occasional income.
Current part time income (full time student) is about 16000/yr, investment income jacks that up about $10k more, but that is mostly rolled back over.

[FIRE me]

Wondering what the lowest stashe anyone here has actually retired on.
I am in kind of a weird position, have a pretty good stash by non-mustachian standards, zero debt since 1994, house and cars bought with cash, but at age 54 just graduating from school and starting a new career, so not feeling like retiring just yet, till I get some use out of my expensive education.
But the lure of retirement is there. I can see myself selling the house and downsizing, trading in the big vehicle for a hybrid, and spending my afternoons writing novels (have one on Amazon, did fairly well). The spouse would object, but...the allure.
Any thoughts?

I think that for older Mustachians, you don't really need to save 25X your annual spending the way a 30 year old would. Because you are much closer to SS, and maybe even a pension if you are lucky.

I'm not actually retired yet. I plan to retire at age 59.5 with only 190k to 200k in cash. I figure that the 190k is more than enough to live on and supplement my SS.

[Tom Bri]

Fire Me, not to be nosy (but being nosy) what is your planned spending level? Sounds like we are in similar zone.

[pbkmaine]

Maine is incredibly beautiful, but rent for a couple of winters before you buy.  The winters are very tough if you don't love winter sports. I had a wonderful time there, but the winters were too tough for DH. Perhaps because he did more of the shoveling

[Rightflyer]

Not FIRE'd yet...next year hopefully.

Should be around $600k plus house (no mortgage). Less than 9 years to government pension (that's CPP...same as SS).

Following this with great interest.

[FIRE me]

Fire Me, not to be nosy (but being nosy) what is your planned spending level? Sounds like we are in similar zone.

From when I quit at age 59.5 until age 62 I plan to spend $1,200 per month, just as I do now. That will cover everything, except for major occurrences like a new furnace, roof, or central air. When a major pops up, I'll take it out of the stash, and also voluntarily live lean for a few months. Some months I get by on as little as $900.

So the 30 months from age 59.5 until age 62 will cost me about $36,000. I'll then have 154k left. At this point I'll have options.

108k would fund a draw down to zero of $450 per month for 240 months (20 years, my life expectancy is to age 82). Or I could put the 108k in Vanguard, and withdraw $360 monthly (4% annual) “forever”.

So once I'm 62, with SS (I won't get any pension) my spending could increase to $1,690 or $1,600 per month (draw down vs “forever”) and I will still have an additional $46k cushion. Of course, just because I can spend that much doesn't mean I will.

[Tom Bri]

Fire me,  pretty similar. Actually went back and looked at last six months spending, a bit more than I expected, running about 24K/yr, so after work income we were using some of the investment income. That will hopefully change abruptly this winter, after graduation and a new, much bigger income.
Had a lot of unusual expenses this year, with daughter starting college. She is paying for most of it herself via multiple scholarships, but still some incidentals.
Will be cutting back in some areas too, getting rid of the 'clown car' and replacing with a used Prius or something similar. Spouse wants to downsize homes, once child #2 is out in a couple of years.

[Prairie Gal]

I am planning to retire with a stash of $350,000, and a paid off house (worth about 250K). I think it will be doable with CPP, OAS and possibly GIS (Guaranteed Income Supplement). I might continue to do a few small bookkeeping jobs from home for the first few years.

[mohawkbrah]

see sig

[2Birds1Stone]

see sig

At your age I would highly suggest increasing your income. You could have a much more secure and enjoyable RE experience.....especially given that you have 11 years.

[Thegoblinchief]

I've got spreadsheets with some very low asset FI scenarios. A lot of it depends on where we end up living. Do we stay in our current urban lot, where I'd need to borrow pieces of yards to grow extra food, do we locate to acreage (assets tied up in buying it) or do we take over the family farm. My wife wants to do #2, as neither staying here nor the family farm are her ideal locations.

I think it's pretty likely we'll reach an as-yet-undefined FU threshold, she quits, we move, and then we cobble together PT income sources to float expenses while the stash compounds for a few more years/decade.

spartana - Maine, huh? That surprised me from what you've posted before, but I definitely agree with you about the 4 seasons.

[2Birds1Stone]

Fire Me, not to be nosy (but being nosy) what is your planned spending level? Sounds like we are in similar zone.

From when I quit at age 59.5 until age 62 I plan to spend $1,200 per month, just as I do now. That will cover everything, except for major occurrences like a new furnace, roof, or central air. When a major pops up, I'll take it out of the stash, and also voluntarily live lean for a few months. Some months I get by on as little as $900.

So the 30 months from age 59.5 until age 62 will cost me about $36,000. I'll then have 154k left. At this point I'll have options.

108k would fund a draw down to zero of $450 per month for 240 months (20 years, my life expectancy is to age 82). Or I could put the 108k in Vanguard, and withdraw $360 monthly (4% annual) “forever”.

So once I'm 62, with SS (I won't get any pension) my spending could increase to $1,690 or $1,600 per month (draw down vs “forever”) and I will still have an additional $46k cushion. Of course, just because I can spend that much doesn't mean I will.

If your life expectancy is "only" 20 years you would be fine withdrawing more from a 50/50 portfolio with Vanguard. Heck even 5-6% withdrawal rates have a great success chance over a period of 20-25 years.

[EvenKeeled]

Tom Bri--I'm 56 and trying to change careers myself. Didn't go back to university...too expensive. Been taking online courses. Getting the first job is looking to be tough.

I could supposedly FIRE today, but living on $16,000/year seems pretty low. I go back and forth about whether I think it's reasonable to expect SS to be there till I die (my grandfather lived to be 102).

It would feel strange to quit my trajectory towards a new job in a new field that's very exciting (user experience design), but I'd do it if I had enough money to provide what I spend now (about $20,000/year) plus a bit more for travel and fun.

I really need to reduce my expenses and see where that leaves my numbers.

[Mr. Green]

Tom Bri--I'm 56 and trying to change careers myself. Didn't go back to university...too expensive. Been taking online courses. Getting the first job is looking to be tough.

I could supposedly FIRE today, but living on $16,000/year seems pretty low. I go back and forth about whether I think it's reasonable to expect SS to be there till I die (my grandfather lived to be 102).

It would feel strange to quit my trajectory towards a new job in a new field that's very exciting (user experience design), but I'd do it if I had enough money to provide what I spend now (about $20,000/year) plus a bit more for travel and fun.

I really need to reduce my expenses and see where that leaves my numbers.

I think it's relatively impossible that SS won't be there. Too many people, likely the majority of the population, have become dependent on SS for a large portion of their retirement income. You can't just pull the rug out from under the majority of the country. I would certainly expect adjustments though. Another increase in retirement age is likely, as life expectancy continues to increase. Benefits might possibly decrease as well if taxes don't go up. I think the current trustees report says that if absolutely nothing is done then starting in 2033-ish they can only pay out 74 cents on the dollar of expected benefits until 2083-ish. I'm 32 so 2083 pretty well covers me. If you're my age or older I think your worst case scenario is you only see 75% of what your benefits statement says you're going to get.

[EvenKeeled]

I think it's relatively impossible that SS won't be there. Too many people, likely the majority of the population, have become dependent on SS for a large portion of their retirement income. You can't just pull the rug out from under the majority of the country. I would certainly expect adjustments though. Another increase in retirement age is likely, as life expectancy continues to increase. Benefits might possibly decrease as well if taxes don't go up. I think the current trustees report says that if absolutely nothing is done then starting in 2033-ish they can only pay out 74 cents on the dollar of expected benefits until 2083-ish. I'm 32 so 2083 pretty well covers me. If you're my age or older I think your worst case scenario is you only see 75% of what your benefits statement says you're going to get.

Mr. Green--Thanks for the SS info. I've read similar things...it just makes me nervous when I read the doomsday takes on the future of SS. One article I found online said the cut could come earlier since the projections have been wrong (in that direction) in past decades.

[Exflyboy]

So lets think about this,

While I am about as cynical as I can be that the corporations own the Governement etc etc. I have a hard time believing that significant cuts to SS won't result in the election of the party that promises to keep SS funded.

Of course we might see it nibbled on at the edges with increases in retirement age, reductions in benefits etc.. but a 25+ plus reduction for a huge swath of the population that will need it in the next decade?

Of course the boiling frog syndrome is that way they would cut it back.. I.e a little bit at a time.

I have no intention of relying upon It as a long term strategy however.

[Mr. Green]

I think it's relatively impossible that SS won't be there. Too many people, likely the majority of the population, have become dependent on SS for a large portion of their retirement income. You can't just pull the rug out from under the majority of the country. I would certainly expect adjustments though. Another increase in retirement age is likely, as life expectancy continues to increase. Benefits might possibly decrease as well if taxes don't go up. I think the current trustees report says that if absolutely nothing is done then starting in 2033-ish they can only pay out 74 cents on the dollar of expected benefits until 2083-ish. I'm 32 so 2083 pretty well covers me. If you're my age or older I think your worst case scenario is you only see 75% of what your benefits statement says you're going to get.

Mr. Green--Thanks for the SS info. I've read similar things...it just makes me nervous when I read the doomsday takes on the future of SS. One article I found online said the cut could come earlier since the projections have been wrong (in that direction) in past decades.

I'm basically using the worst case scenario in my projections. I assume I'll see 75% of what SS says I'm going to get, and even then I'm not setting myself up so that if it's a little less it causes me problems. If you wanted to be ultra-conservative I think you can assume you'll see at least 50% of what they say you'll get. Though, it really can't get that bad for the same economic reasons that it can't go away. The only thing that could possibly make that happen is if they put together a comprehensive plan to ween people off of SS over 30-40 years and train a new generation to rely on other incomes sources. Given that Congress can't even pass a budget every year, there's probably zero chance of them putting together a plan that focuses on that kind of timetable. They'll just keep patching it with stop gaps. Hell, just taking the income limit off (there's isn't one for medicare) would help a decent bit. That's probably the lowest hanging fruit that would garner the least amount of opposition for changing the program.

[LAGuy]

It's highly unlikely you see significant, direct cuts to SS. It's just not possible politically. What you're more likely to see is nibbling around the edges. Moving to the chained CPI method for determining COLA increases is a de facto benefit cut for current retirees that would probably be palatable as it won't obviously show up for several years. A slight increase in the retirement age, most likely only affecting those under 40 at the time the law goes into affect. An increase in the cap on the amount of income that's subject to SS tax. All relatively easy fixes even for our dysfunctional political system. Just letting the the thing run dry followed by a 25% cut in benefits would be political suicide for whoever is in power.

No, if you want to worry about your entitlements, I suggest you worry about Medicare. That ones going to be the tricky one to sort out.