Fat Fire health insurance costs reality has kicked in

[mboley]

I retired 7 years ago at age 55. With income and deductions from a multi- family rental property and a good chunk of cash I was able to manipulate my AGI enough to qualify for cheap health insurance through the ACA for six years.

Those days are over now. I couldnt wait any longer to get my rents back up to where they should be, I ran out of improvements to do and deduct, and my portfolio withdrawals now have more significant capital gains attached.

In 2021 my health insurance bill was about $9000 for my wife and I, which is at the 8.5% max of my Agi. This year I expect I'll be paying about the same. In 2023 if the current program(no income cliff) is not extended and the income cliff goes back to $62K, my premiums will likely be  $15,000 or more.

Adding to that, I read that if the current program is not extended, millions of new enrollees will no longer qualify, the pool will shrink, and rates will likely increase significantly.

Even when I turn 65 in 2024 and join Medicare, I'll be paying full price for my 58 year old wife for 7 years plus my Medicare premiums. I have a friend in that situation now, he spends $1,100 a month for him and his wife.

To summarize, I could very easily  spend $100,000 on health insurance premiums over the next seven years until my wife  turns 65.

Disgusting isn't  it?






 

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

[seattlecyclone]

Beats working until the younger spouse is 65 because you're uninsurable otherwise.

[Dicey]

Do you have enough money? Are these numbers significantly different than you used when you planned for FIRE? You won't need to pay that $100k all at once, so the majority of that money will still be invested, earning more money, right?

DH is retiring this year, so we're kind of in the same boat. We planned for it and it is what it is. Still 100% worth the price of freedom.

[Paul der Krake]

If either you or your wife have "burstable" employment skills (other than your rentals), consider running a small business that earns 15-20k a year.

[jim555]

NY the second lowest cost Silver plan in my area is about $600 per person, that is with no subsidies.  NY has no age rating so that price is the same for any age.

[Omy]

We will likely fall off the cliff next year as well. On the positive side, we will have enjoyed 3 really good ACA subsidized FIRE years that I wasn't expecting.

We specifically FAT-fired because of health insurance costs....to the tune of working 5 more years than we had to. I look at the 3 subsidized years as a nice bonus since our costs were SO much less than projected.

[terran]

In 2023 if the current program(no income cliff) is not extended and the income cliff goes back to $62K...

Presuming the income cliff comes back, which seems like a safe assumption or at least the correct worst case scenario to plan for, the income cliff for a household of 2 in 2023 for most of the country will be $18,310 FPL x 4 = $73,240.

One option you might consider is staggering your income, if possible. For example, in 2023 you might make a large Roth conversion or harvest capital gains, then in 2024 you do neither to get yourself under the cliff. Rinse and repeat by realizing income and paying full premiums one year and not for some number of following years. You might be able to do the same thing with itemized deductions. If you regularly give to charity this is especially easy through the use of a donor advised fund.

[bmjohnson35]

We are far from FAT fire and the ACA has been great for our first 2 yrs so far.  As long as we can afford the increases, I will pay the increases to avoid going back to the grind.  I'm expecting a big increase when my spouse hits 65 in a few years.  It is what it is.

[Steeze]

My employer sponsored plan is $3200 a month of which they cover 50% so... $1600/mo. ($19,000/yr) for the 3 of us. Luckily the max OOP is $17k so worst case scenario I’m out less than $40k. Granted this is a gold tier plan.

[Dicey]

Hmmm, I'm still thinking about this post. You gamed the system for six years, which is fine, but then you "couldnt wait any longer to get my rents back up to where they should be". How much additional revenue resulted? You made a choice to raise the rents, you knew what the impact would be on your income and health insurance, and you must have decided it was worth it.

Depending on the number of rentals you own, you could increase the rents an equivalent amount over the next seven years.

I'm just not sure what the problem is or why you're seeking sympathy here.

[mboley]

Hmmm, I'm still thinking about this post. You gamed the system for six years, which is fine, but then you "couldnt wait any longer to get my rents back up to where they should be". How much additional revenue resulted? You made a choice to raise the rents, you knew what the impact would be on your income and health insurance, and you must have decided it was worth it.

Depending on the number of rentals you own, you could increase the rents an equivalent amount over the next seven years.

I'm just not sure what the problem is or why you're seeking sympathy here.

Gamed the system? I legally took advantage of what was available to me just as any intelligent person would. In fact I didnt save any money, I spent the  money on improvements instead of premiums. That way at least I got something out of it; see how that works?

From reading these responses I should have added that I posted as a warning to others about what to expect as you approach Medicare. I also didnt want to comment how screwed up our health care system is.

I dont need sympathy or advise, and I knew the ridiculas premiums were coming. As the Title says, the reality has kicked in, its here, that's all.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

[Fishindude]

We've been paying similar for three years now with several more to go, so no sympathy here either :)
You have what are known as "high class problems".

Beats hell out of working !

[BeanCounter]

If either you or your wife have "burstable" employment skills (other than your rentals), consider running a small business that earns 15-20k a year.

@Paul der Krake can you explain this a bit further? Are you talking about buying a commercial plan through the small business?

[Paul der Krake]

If either you or your wife have "burstable" employment skills (other than your rentals), consider running a small business that earns 15-20k a year.

@Paul der Krake can you explain this a bit further? Are you talking about buying a commercial plan through the small business?

It doesn't even really have to be "through the business". You can just buy it on the individual ACA exchange like you normally would, then take the self-employment health insurance deduction. That way you pay for your plan with pre-tax dollars instead of post-tax. This assumes that you have an easy, kinda-sorta fun way to make the net business income necessary to pay for the premiums in the first place.

See "Self-Employed Health Insurance Deduction" for more details:
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p535#en_US_2021_publink1000208843

[seattlecyclone]

If either you or your wife have "burstable" employment skills (other than your rentals), consider running a small business that earns 15-20k a year.

@Paul der Krake can you explain this a bit further? Are you talking about buying a commercial plan through the small business?

It doesn't even really have to be "through the business". You can just buy it on the individual ACA exchange like you normally would, then take the self-employment health insurance deduction. That way you pay for your plan with pre-tax dollars instead of post-tax. This assumes that you have an easy, kinda-sorta fun way to make the net business income necessary to pay for the premiums in the first place.

See "Self-Employed Health Insurance Deduction" for more details:
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p535#en_US_2021_publink1000208843

"Fun" thing about the self-employed health insurance deduction is that it reduces your AGI, which increases your premium subsidy, which decreases your self-employed health insurance deduction, which increases your AGI, which decreases your premium subsidy, which increases your self-employed health insurance deduction, which reduces your AGI...

The official instructions for calculating the premium tax credit include an Iterative Calculation Method where you feed the AGI and net premium back into each other over and over again until the result changes by less than $1 each time. The interactions between these two parts of the tax code was not very well thought-out.

[DaMa]

Hmmm, I'm still thinking about this post. You gamed the system for six years, which is fine, but then you "couldnt wait any longer to get my rents back up to where they should be". How much additional revenue resulted? You made a choice to raise the rents, you knew what the impact would be on your income and health insurance, and you must have decided it was worth it.

Depending on the number of rentals you own, you could increase the rents an equivalent amount over the next seven years.

I'm just not sure what the problem is or why you're seeking sympathy here.

Gamed the system? I legally took advantage of what was available to me just as any intelligent person would. In fact I didnt save any money, I spent the  money on improvements instead of premiums. That way at least I got something out of it; see how that works?

From reading these responses I should have added that I posted as a warning to others about what to expect as you approach Medicare. I also didnt want to comment how screwed up our health care system is.

I dont need sympathy or advise, and I knew the ridiculas premiums were coming. As the Title says, the reality has kicked in, its here, that's all.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

On average health care costs more than $12,000 per year per person in the US.  You'll be paying $7500.  Seems like you are doing ok to me.

I retired 4 years ago at age 49 with $1000 per month budgeted for healthcare.

[Omy]

Thanks for the link to the Iterative Calculation Method, Seattlecyclone.

I was literally thinking about this today. DH and I were talking about taxes and I mentioned that we can deduct our health insurance this year...but it will change our agi... which will change our subsidy....and I had no idea how we would calculate that correctly.

[Another Reader]

Medicare may not fix the problem.  Look up IRMAA... 

[2sk22]

Medicare may not fix the problem.  Look up IRMAA...

Right - at a certain point in your journey to accumulate money, you keep discovering additional ways that you are going to be paying more than you expect in retirement :-) Still, these are all good problems to have - much better than being forced to work at age 70.

[better late]

Hmmm, I'm still thinking about this post. You gamed the system for six years, which is fine, but then you "couldnt wait any longer to get my rents back up to where they should be". How much additional revenue resulted? You made a choice to raise the rents, you knew what the impact would be on your income and health insurance, and you must have decided it was worth it.

Depending on the number of rentals you own, you could increase the rents an equivalent amount over the next seven years.

I'm just not sure what the problem is or why you're seeking sympathy here.

Gamed the system? I legally took advantage of what was available to me just as any intelligent person would. In fact I didnt save any money, I spent the  money on improvements instead of premiums. That way at least I got something out of it; see how that works?

From reading these responses I should have added that I posted as a warning to others about what to expect as you approach Medicare. I also didnt want to comment how screwed up our health care system is.

I dont need sympathy or advise, and I knew the ridiculas premiums were coming. As the Title says, the reality has kicked in, its here, that's all.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

I didn’t read your original post as seeking sympathy or advice but as a good reminder that health care costs are a massive consideration for early retirement and that I really need to stress-test my optimistic assumptions.

[Greystache]

I see it as a cautionary tale for those who are seeking fat FIRE. If you FIRE with a high income, you get no subsidies and pay way more for health insurance.  If you aim for a more modest FIRE income, you qualify for subsidies and you may end up with the same amount of disposable income as the person with a higher gross income.  In my case, I spend $60K a year with a MAGI of around $43K per year.  Over the last 7 years my ACA premiums have varied between $120 per month to $0 per month ( ACA bronze plan with HSA).  I would not recommend a bronze plan unless you are relatively healthy and do not consume a lot of healthcare services. A few years ago, I had an opportunity to take a part time job. The extra income would have taken me over the ACA cliff that existed at the time.  The increased ACA premiums would have nearly equaled the income from the part time job.

[Fishindude]

Last year, my state (IN) raised the allowable income levels at which you could still get subsidies.   For instance, we used $150k income when we signed up for 2022 and still received a considerable discount, lowered our premium approx. $500 per month -vs- 2021.   The broker that helped us set things up said the subsidies end at AGI $250k and above.

It varies wildly state to state.

[jim555]

Last year, my state (IN) raised the allowable income levels at which you could still get subsidies.   For instance, we used $150k income when we signed up for 2022 and still received a considerable discount, lowered our premium approx. $500 per month -vs- 2021.   The broker that helped us set things up said the subsidies end at AGI $250k and above.

It varies wildly state to state.

Actually the states do not set the allowed income levels at all.  That was set by the action by Congress to eliminate the 400% FPL cap for 2021 and 2022 and set the max SLCSP cost to 8.5%.  2023 it goes back to how it was.  BBB was supposed to extend it, but that died.


How much more will YOU pay if #AmRescuePlan subsidies AREN'T extended?
https://acasignups.net/22/03/17/how-much-more-will-you-pay-if-amrescueplan-subsidies-arent-extended

[Paul der Krake]

Thanks for the link to the Iterative Calculation Method, Seattlecyclone.

I was literally thinking about this today. DH and I were talking about taxes and I mentioned that we can deduct our health insurance this year...but it will change our agi... which will change our subsidy....and I had no idea how we would calculate that correctly.

Yeah circular calculations are a total joke. Fortunately the ACA has now been around for long enough, I assume most tax software can handle it by now.

[CurledMoss]

America. Where you get penalized for being responsible and working your butt off.

[less4success]

If you're planning to "fat FIRE", I think it's prudent to include the full sticker price of insurance (premiums + out of pocket). Worst case, you get some subsidy and can spend/donate more.

[Tempname23]

I retired 7 years ago at age 55. With income and deductions from a multi- family rental property and a good chunk of cash I was able to manipulate my AGI enough to qualify for cheap health insurance through the ACA for six years.

Those days are over now. I couldnt wait any longer to get my rents back up to where they should be, I ran out of improvements to do and deduct, and my portfolio withdrawals now have more significant capital gains attached.

In 2021 my health insurance bill was about $9000 for my wife and I, which is at the 8.5% max of my Agi. This year I expect I'll be paying about the same. In 2023 if the current program(no income cliff) is not extended and the income cliff goes back to $62K, my premiums will likely be  $15,000 or more.

Adding to that, I read that if the current program is not extended, millions of new enrollees will no longer qualify, the pool will shrink, and rates will likely increase significantly.

Even when I turn 65 in 2024 and join Medicare, I'll be paying full price for my 58 year old wife for 7 years plus my Medicare premiums. I have a friend in that situation now, he spends $1,100 a month for him and his wife.

To summarize, I could very easily  spend $100,000 on health insurance premiums over the next seven years until my wife  turns 65.

Disgusting isn't  it?

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

 And people thought I was crazy when I changed from a $2,500 deductible $9,900 premium to a HDHC plan with $10,000 deductible $4,320 premium. Then the ACA started. People were whining I can't afford a $6,500 deductible, I already had over $10,000 in my HSA. I wasn't for the ACA and have never used it. But it did cause my premiums to rise, it forced my policy to pay for things whether I used them or not.

[Bateaux]

When we retire in 2023 our monthly premium will be about $1000 a month for us both.  We co-pays and out of pocket health care will like be $1500 a month or more.  We have decided to work this last year to save more for healthcare costs. 

[evanc]

If you're planning to "fat FIRE", I think it's prudent to include the full sticker price of insurance (premiums + out of pocket). Worst case, you get some subsidy and can spend/donate more.

Agreed. The subsidies are by no means written in stone. A mere 12 years ago, ACA didn't even exist.

[bmjohnson35]

This post serves as a friendly reminder/warning.  If you live in the US, healthcare IS the financial wildcard for early retirement.  The ACA has been a huge benefit for FIRE seekers, but not guaranteed longterm.  For those not retired yet, strive to stay as healthy as possible & don't underestimate potential costs and risks of future healthcare insurance.  In the end, I figured working longer than required was its own risk/downside and decided it was time.  No regrets so far. 

[BeanCounter]

I see it as a cautionary tale for those who are seeking fat FIRE. If you FIRE with a high income, you get no subsidies and pay way more for health insurance.  If you aim for a more modest FIRE income, you qualify for subsidies and you may end up with the same amount of disposable income as the person with a higher gross income.  In my case, I spend $60K a year with a MAGI of around $43K per year.  Over the last 7 years my ACA premiums have varied between $120 per month to $0 per month ( ACA bronze plan with HSA).  I would not recommend a bronze plan unless you are relatively healthy and do not consume a lot of healthcare services. A few years ago, I had an opportunity to take a part time job. The extra income would have taken me over the ACA cliff that existed at the time.  The increased ACA premiums would have nearly equaled the income from the part time job.

Well wait a minute. It doesn't actually matter what your budget or spending are. What matters is where/how you get the money. If you have a pile of cash to use up or to subsidize RMDs that cash won't actually count as income for the ACA calculation. Am I thinking about this correctly?
Same with Roth RMDs they don't go into your AGI on your 1040 so they would not be included in the premium calculation correct?

[Greystache]

I see it as a cautionary tale for those who are seeking fat FIRE. If you FIRE with a high income, you get no subsidies and pay way more for health insurance.  If you aim for a more modest FIRE income, you qualify for subsidies and you may end up with the same amount of disposable income as the person with a higher gross income.  In my case, I spend $60K a year with a MAGI of around $43K per year.  Over the last 7 years my ACA premiums have varied between $120 per month to $0 per month ( ACA bronze plan with HSA).  I would not recommend a bronze plan unless you are relatively healthy and do not consume a lot of healthcare services. A few years ago, I had an opportunity to take a part time job. The extra income would have taken me over the ACA cliff that existed at the time.  The increased ACA premiums would have nearly equaled the income from the part time job.

Well wait a minute. It doesn't actually matter what your budget or spending are. What matters is where/how you get the money. If you have a pile of cash to use up or to subsidize RMDs that cash won't actually count as income for the ACA calculation. Am I thinking about this correctly?
Same with Roth RMDs they don't go into your AGI on your 1040 so they would not be included in the premium calculation correct?

Well, yes and no. You are correct that if you are spending cash, that does not affect your taxable income. When I retired, I set aside some cash and Roth money to use so I did not have to use so much of my taxable IRA money.  Most people don't have enough Roth or cash to completely fund their retirement, so they use it to strategically reduce their taxable income to qualify for ACA subsidies or stay out of the next higher tax bracket. The part I don't understand is that you keep referring to Roth RMDs. RMDs only apply to traditional IRA and 401Ks, they do not apply to Roth.  Also RMDs don't affect ACA subsidies because RMDs don't kick in until you are on medicare.  It seems to me like you are using RMD to describe any withdrawal from an IRA or 401K.

[BeanCounter]

I see it as a cautionary tale for those who are seeking fat FIRE. If you FIRE with a high income, you get no subsidies and pay way more for health insurance.  If you aim for a more modest FIRE income, you qualify for subsidies and you may end up with the same amount of disposable income as the person with a higher gross income.  In my case, I spend $60K a year with a MAGI of around $43K per year.  Over the last 7 years my ACA premiums have varied between $120 per month to $0 per month ( ACA bronze plan with HSA).  I would not recommend a bronze plan unless you are relatively healthy and do not consume a lot of healthcare services. A few years ago, I had an opportunity to take a part time job. The extra income would have taken me over the ACA cliff that existed at the time.  The increased ACA premiums would have nearly equaled the income from the part time job.

Well wait a minute. It doesn't actually matter what your budget or spending are. What matters is where/how you get the money. If you have a pile of cash to use up or to subsidize RMDs that cash won't actually count as income for the ACA calculation. Am I thinking about this correctly?
Same with Roth RMDs they don't go into your AGI on your 1040 so they would not be included in the premium calculation correct?

Well, yes and no. You are correct that if you are spending cash, that does not affect your taxable income. When I retired, I set aside some cash and Roth money to use so I did not have to use so much of my taxable IRA money.  Most people don't have enough Roth or cash to completely fund their retirement, so they use it to strategically reduce their taxable income to qualify for ACA subsidies or stay out of the next higher tax bracket. The part I don't understand is that you keep referring to Roth RMDs. RMDs only apply to traditional IRA and 401Ks, they do not apply to Roth.  Also RMDs don't affect ACA subsidies because RMDs don't kick in until you are on medicare.  It seems to me like you are using RMD to describe any withdrawal from an IRA or 401K.

Sorry, I was more thinking of my own personal situation. I have inherited accounts that I have RMDs on and no matter what they impact our taxable income. That and dividends. (Which is why I don’t understand why people still talk about dividend investing, it’s hell on taxes)
This is why I’m working on a pile of cash to help bridge the gap when my spouse retires and we need insurance. That and I started a small bookkeeping business (goal is $20k per year from it) so I can possibly deduct insurance costs there plus use SEP to offset some of the RMDs.

Edited to add- inherited ROTHs do have RMDs It’s just not part of taxable income.

[seattlecyclone]

I see it as a cautionary tale for those who are seeking fat FIRE. If you FIRE with a high income, you get no subsidies and pay way more for health insurance.  If you aim for a more modest FIRE income, you qualify for subsidies and you may end up with the same amount of disposable income as the person with a higher gross income.  In my case, I spend $60K a year with a MAGI of around $43K per year.  Over the last 7 years my ACA premiums have varied between $120 per month to $0 per month ( ACA bronze plan with HSA).  I would not recommend a bronze plan unless you are relatively healthy and do not consume a lot of healthcare services. A few years ago, I had an opportunity to take a part time job. The extra income would have taken me over the ACA cliff that existed at the time.  The increased ACA premiums would have nearly equaled the income from the part time job.

Well wait a minute. It doesn't actually matter what your budget or spending are. What matters is where/how you get the money. If you have a pile of cash to use up or to subsidize RMDs that cash won't actually count as income for the ACA calculation. Am I thinking about this correctly?
Same with Roth RMDs they don't go into your AGI on your 1040 so they would not be included in the premium calculation correct?

Right, it's about your (modified) AGI, not your spending. Money you pull from a savings account doesn't count here, nor do qualified Roth distributions, or the cost basis part of shares you sell in a taxable account. Conversely there are things you can do (such as Roth conversions) that do count toward your income for ACA subsidies but may have nothing at all to do with your spending.

[Fomerly known as something]

Health care is expensive.  My employer plan is $6,300 a year between my and my employers contributions. 

[BPA]

Hmmm, I'm still thinking about this post. You gamed the system for six years, which is fine, but then you "couldnt wait any longer to get my rents back up to where they should be". How much additional revenue resulted? You made a choice to raise the rents, you knew what the impact would be on your income and health insurance, and you must have decided it was worth it.

Depending on the number of rentals you own, you could increase the rents an equivalent amount over the next seven years.

I'm just not sure what the problem is or why you're seeking sympathy here.

Gamed the system? I legally took advantage of what was available to me just as any intelligent person would. In fact I didnt save any money, I spent the  money on improvements instead of premiums. That way at least I got something out of it; see how that works?

From reading these responses I should have added that I posted as a warning to others about what to expect as you approach Medicare. I also didnt want to comment how screwed up our health care system is.

I dont need sympathy or advise, and I knew the ridiculas premiums were coming. As the Title says, the reality has kicked in, its here, that's all.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

Most non-Americans think that the healthcare system in the US is screwed up. However, you said you Fat FIREd, so one would assume that you had enough.

You want to have subsidized health care but "couldn't wait any longer to get my rents back up where they should be"? Looks like you like "socialism" when it's working in your favour and despise it when it isn't.

Also, aren't people in this community already aware of the Medicare issues? I've learned a lot about it and I'm not even American.

[moneytaichi]

Nobody has mentioned COBRA yet. If you work for a company with a health insurance, CA allows you stay on COBRA for 3 years. It can be a nice option when COBRA is cheaper than ACA.

[LightStache]

This is a good argument for NOT doing a cost segregation for rentals and waiting to sell them between medicare age and RMDs. I guess it's also an argument to pay off your primary residence to reduce non-discretionary spending.

The key is to be able to time income. That's easy with selling taxable securities and Roth ladders, but not so much with real estate income, annuities, and pensions.

Of course, once you get up above $3M NW, you'll probably have trouble managing income to keep below ACA cliffs no matter what. That's OK though because you're rich! ;)

[ixtap]

Health care is expensive.  My employer plan is $6,300 a year between my and my employers contributions.

This is important to highlight. I have only paid premiums into student plans. Every job, and now DH's coverage, has covered 100%. That workplace coverage can be expensive, especially for families.

If the price of health insurance bothers you, vote. Like funding retirement, your health care options should be independent of your employer. I wish these SECURE proposals addressed that, rather than raising RMD age to benefit folks who already have plenty saved.

[seattlecyclone]

Health care is expensive.  My employer plan is $6,300 a year between my and my employers contributions.

This is important to highlight. I have only paid premiums into student plans. Every job, and now DH's coverage, has covered 100%. That workplace coverage can be expensive, especially for families.

If the price of health insurance bothers you, vote. Like funding retirement, your health care options should be independent of your employer. I wish these SECURE proposals addressed that, rather than raising RMD age to benefit folks who already have plenty saved.

Yeah the policies encouraging workplaces to provide insurance are nonsensical. There's no good reason that someone switching jobs should also need to switch up their family's whole network of health care providers just because the new job contracts with a different insurance company than the old one. Health insurance shouldn't be a tax-free benefit, and employers really shouldn't be subject to financial penalties for failing to provide it.

[LightStache]

Health care is expensive.  My employer plan is $6,300 a year between my and my employers contributions.

It depends. I pay $4,716 in unsubsidized premiums per year -- after SE tax deductions that's $3,146. I save $876/yr in tax from maxing HSA contributions, but then have around $750 out-of-pocket expenses. So that's $252/mo all in, which doesn't seem terribly expensive next to my $2,900/mo rent for a 1-br apt.

I'm considering WY for an RE homebase, but this thread caused me to lookup that they have the highest ACA premiums in the nation! Nevada's looking better in that regard. But I'll stay flexible enough to mitigate this cost risk.

[Bateaux]

The primary reason I'm working till age 55 is for health insurance.  Even with my company retirement insurance we'll pay $10000 a year just for premiums.  I'm predicted the end of the ACA and much higher premiums in 2025.  At our income level we'll pay the full load for Medicare at age 65.  Save more.  You'll need it.

[bmjohnson35]

The primary reason I'm working till age 55 is for health insurance.  Even with my company retirement insurance we'll pay $10000 a year just for premiums.  I'm predicted the end of the ACA and much higher premiums in 2025.  At our income level we'll pay the full load for Medicare at age 65.  Save more.  You'll need it.

What makes you think the ACA will be gone in 2025?

[Bateaux]

The primary reason I'm working till age 55 is for health insurance.  Even with my company retirement insurance we'll pay $10000 a year just for premiums.  I'm predicted the end of the ACA and much higher premiums in 2025.  At our income level we'll pay the full load for Medicare at age 65.  Save more.  You'll need it.

What makes you think the ACA will be gone in 2025?

November 2024

[seattlecyclone]

The primary reason I'm working till age 55 is for health insurance.  Even with my company retirement insurance we'll pay $10000 a year just for premiums.  I'm predicted the end of the ACA and much higher premiums in 2025.  At our income level we'll pay the full load for Medicare at age 65.  Save more.  You'll need it.

What makes you think the ACA will be gone in 2025?

November 2024

Are you suggesting that come January 2025 we're more likely than not to have 60 senators, 218 representatives, and a president who are interested in repealing the ACA? I mean, it's not impossible, but I wouldn't bet on that happening. Since the ACA was passed we've had three presidential elections and six Congressional elections. None of those elections resulted in a repeal of the ACA, nor have any of the legal challenges to the law succeeded in a full repeal.

[Abe]

$7.5k per person isn’t that much per year in premiums. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect richer people to pay more for insurance. I guess the other option is not increase rents and stay under the cliff?

[jim555]

For someone out of the subsidy range even if they repealed the ACA I don't see how that would lower premiums by a great amount, it will still be very expensive.  But the policy would probably be stripped of things like no lifetime limits, guaranteed issue not based on health.

[SuperNintendo Chalmers]

The primary reason I'm working till age 55 is for health insurance.  Even with my company retirement insurance we'll pay $10000 a year just for premiums.  I'm predicted the end of the ACA and much higher premiums in 2025.  At our income level we'll pay the full load for Medicare at age 65.  Save more.  You'll need it.

What makes you think the ACA will be gone in 2025?

November 2024

Are you suggesting that come January 2025 we're more likely than not to have 60 senators, 218 representatives, and a president who are interested in repealing the ACA? I mean, it's not impossible, but I wouldn't bet on that happening. Since the ACA was passed we've had three presidential elections and six Congressional elections. None of those elections resulted in a repeal of the ACA, nor have any of the legal challenges to the law succeeded in a full repeal.

I'm not the OP, and certainly no expert, but I think there's a decent chance that there will be enough elected "scorched-earth" congresspeople and president by that time that they will go through with a full repeal (because Obamacare), and successfully deflect the resulting negative impact to many households with culture-war issues. 

[mboley]

I'm  the OP. As Im sure most informed people here already know, the 8.5% of AGI premium deal for those of us who are over the former income cliff has been renewed for 3 years.Thank you Democrats!

From what I was reading, that saved me about $30,000 over the next two years for my wife and I. I'm then on Medicare but Ill be paying full boat for my wife for the following 5 years. Estimated health insurance premiums for the next seven years are about $12000 per year. Still steep but Ill take it!

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

[bmjohnson35]

The additional 3 yrs is definitely well received.  Spouse will go onto medicare in 3 yrs.  I'm expecting a huge cost increase at that time.  I'm 52, so I have a long time to get to medicare. 

Is there a site you use to perform future premium estimates?