Tolerance for commute traffic

[SunnyMoney]

I live in Silicon Valley and the commute traffic here is pretty bad.  Between 7:30am - 10am and 3:30pm - 7:00pm it is not uncommon to find yourself driving at 15 mph or less on the freeway for several miles.  Thankfully, now that I am FIREd I can arrange my schedule to avoid commute traffic but on occasion I can't.  When I'm stuck in it it brings back all those old angry knots in my stomache  and mental murmurs of what a waste of time this is.  Anyone else notice that since they are FIREd their tolerance for getting stuck in traffic is even lower than while they were working?

[jim555]

That is one of the great perks of ER, the ability to avoid rush hour traffic.  Fortunately I have avoided the problem so it is not an issue.

[Another Reader]

Traffic in general in Silly Valley is an order of magnitude worse than it was at the depths of the recession.  Public policy is to build only high density housing, which dramatically increases the number of cars in the area.  I don't know how many double digit units to the acre projects have been built since 2009, but I'm sure it's thousands. 

FIRE folks here compete with the work from home folks and the stay at home parents that drive themselves and their kids places throughout the day.  In the middle of the day, it can take three lights to go through one intersection I use frequently.  I have to go to the grocery store today.  If I go after 10 AM, it will be difficult to get a parking space anywhere near the door.  My COL is relatively low, because I bought my house almost 30 years ago for less than the least expensive condo today.  Quality of life has dropped dramatically over those same 30 years, however, due to overcrowding and the resulting 24/7 traffic.  I have very little tolerance for the traffic and the bad public policy that causes it.

[Daisy]

I think my commute is the worst part of my non-FIREd life. Just the other day I got to work from home but then had an appointment 10 miles away at 530pm. What a mistake. I had to go in traffic (not against traffic which is my normal commute) and it took me way too long to get there. Rush hour traffic, bridges going up and backing traffic up, train  crossings coincidentally during the drive. It was awful.

I have a self imposed commute because I am living in an ideal FIRE location. Just need to a finally FIRE to get to enjoy it properly. Or more work from home days....but management doesn't like that.

I purposefully go in to work later and leave later to avoid traffic. I work out close to work as well. Thank goodness for flexible time.

[AlwaysBeenASaver]

I live in the Bay Area too, but fortunately I have not had to drive during commute hours since FIRE. However I've had to drive on Silicon Valley highways outside commute hours several times since FIRE and my tolerance for the insane driving style has definitely gone down!

[o2bfree]

I don't mind the slow driving as much as the rudeness and impatience of drivers who think they're so much more important than everyone else that they'll put others in danger just to get a couple cars ahead. I'm still working and my office is close to home, but sometimes I need to drive, and even this short commute can be frustrating. People driving 40 on neighborhood streets posted at 25, using the left turn lane as a passing lane, racing around you only to slam on their brakes at the red light clearly visible 1/2 block away, plus the talkers and texters dawdling and drifting. Hard to maintain a sense of humor sometimes.

[slackmax]

My once-Shangrila suburb is now ruined with excess traffic. "Progress" has, of course, in contrast to the promise of *lower* taxes, resulted in  more traffic, nowhere to park, crowded stores, and much higher taxes. There's all sorts of new businesses going up, and new housing, but it sure as heck doesn't benefit most of the already existing folks, whose quality of life keeps dropping. Everyone knows it, too, but it just keeps happening all over.

I'm not sure there is any better alternative, but the mantra seems to be "Oh look, there's a really great place to live, let's all go move there and ruin it! Yay!!!!! "   
   

[ronindeniro]

Avoid commute is being probably the second best part of FIRE. Whenever I got a job, I always moved as close as possible to it. But even walking 15 minutes it is a waste of time if I count the time before leaving and after arriving at home. Everything can sum up to one hour per day. This is 5 hours per week! Consider what you could do with this time.

[SeanMC]

Anything that removes you from the commute - FIRE, work from home, flex hours, bike/walk to work - seems to reduce tolerance for traffic and commuting.

I've gone from being able to avoid commute/traffic to having to deal with it on a part-time basis, and it's much worse (though the traffic itself is the same).

I also have very low tolerance for making plans (social, entertainment) that require long drives and sitting in traffic. I am amazed to reflect on how much time my father spent doing this for my family when I was growing up. I suspect it was a combination of him 'sucking it up' for the family and the fact that he already had a daily traffic/commuting situation for work on M-F, so I guess his tolerance was higher than mine is now.

[Kitsunegari]

I commute by metro, 1 hour, and honestly I like it. It's the only time in the day, and often in the week, where I can read in almost peace.

[Adventine]

I never had a high tolerance for commuting, but I endured it for the first five or so years of my career because I didn't earn enough to move closer to work. Now that the office is a 15 minute walk away, I'm a much happier person overall.

[deborah]

I finde that retirement has actually helped my tolerance for traffic. It doesn't matter. I am not in a hurry to get somewhere, so if I manage to participate in traffic hell, I just take longer to get there.

I think it is partly because I only get into traffic infrequently now - rather than having it every day.

[seattlecyclone]

I have a pretty quick bus ride to work. It's great. A few times a year I have some need to drive on the freeways at rush hour and it's so infuriating. I honestly don't know how people do it every day. Surely a fancy house in the suburbs isn't worth putting up with that on a daily basis?

[SeanMC]

I have a pretty quick bus ride to work. It's great. A few times a year I have some need to drive on the freeways at rush hour and it's so infuriating. I honestly don't know how people do it every day. Surely a fancy house in the suburbs isn't worth putting up with that on a daily basis?

This. I just had to drive in rush hour for a one-off professional obligation & what amazed me was that some people do this every workday.

[SunnyMoney]

I finde that retirement has actually helped my tolerance for traffic. It doesn't matter. I am not in a hurry to get somewhere, so if I manage to participate in traffic hell, I just take longer to get there.

I think it is partly because I only get into traffic infrequently now - rather than having it every day.

Nice, I like your zen-like thinking deborah.  I will try and remind myself that "it doesn't matter, I am not in a hurry" next time if feel my anger rising while sitting in traffic.

[deborah]

I find that retirement has actually helped my tolerance for traffic. It doesn't matter. I am not in a hurry to get somewhere, so if I manage to participate in traffic hell, I just take longer to get there.

I think it is partly because I only get into traffic infrequently now - rather than having it every day.

Nice, I like your zen-like thinking deborah.  I will try and remind myself that "it doesn't matter, I am not in a hurry" next time if feel my anger rising while sitting in traffic.

It helped a lot when I took my niece to Los Angeles for a week. I didn't mind the traffic. However, my niece's navigation skills left something to be desired on the day our car GPS broke down, and nearly caused several accidents. "Can't you just do a U turn?" is not appropriate when you are in the inside lane of a choked six lane road, even if it isn't a freeway. We spent 4 hours that evening going around in circles (I think we got a fair way to SF when we were aiming for the south of LA). These were not the incidents that nearly caused accidents. She is NEVER going to navigate for me again. She is lucky I didn't throttle her.

[Abel]

Traffic in general in Silly Valley is an order of magnitude worse than it was at the depths of the recession.  Public policy is to build only high density housing, which dramatically increases the number of cars in the area.  I don't know how many double digit units to the acre projects have been built since 2009, but I'm sure it's thousands.

I suspect that the greater problem is the incredible *shortage* of high density housing, especially in places like the Bay Area, especially where public transit might be very efficient. Where housing supply is so inadequate, buyers are pushed to the periphery far from public transit, and cover ever greater distances through suburban sprawl in their cars in order to afford living near job opportunities. Low-density, detached single family homes on big lots are great if that's your thing...but when it's forced on a place via zoning or legislation, when that place would be more pleasant with high-density, walkable mixed-use neighborhoods, I always shake my head. There's a better way.

Regarding tolerance for commute traffic: having lived off of the frequently choked I-5 artery in southern California, it makes a huge difference to your quality of life to have alternatives at hand. Need to go visit friends? It's great when you're not car-dependent on the freeway to do that, just in case traffic is bad. Living close to friends, activities, a nice place to take a walk after dinner, etc.

One of my biggest takeaways from MMM has been just how soul-sucking it is to sit in a clown car for significant amount of time and cost each day. If it's necessary, it should be viewed as a necessary evil. I have sympathy for those with no other options, and I constantly encourage my friends to experience the joy of ditching congestion and car commutes for a smaller lifestyle that can be supported by walking and biking.

[Another Reader]

The vast majority of people here prefer to live in low density single family neighborhoods and drive.  Most don't get to do that now.  Housing prices prevent that. 

Now we have people shoehorned into high density apartments and condominiums they can "afford" but really don't want and a city government that is schizophrenic about cars.  There is almost no public transit.  It's slow, inconvenient, dirty, and in many areas unsafe to ride. 

Thousands of acres of vacant land to the south that could be used to provide the housing people want are "preserved for jobs."   That land has been "preserved" for 40 years.  No jobs-related development yet and none contemplated.  Meanwhile cities to the north absorb the new employment by building denser, taller commercial structures.  A lot of the people living in the high density housing here drive to those jobs.  There are no major transportation improvements planned to accommodate these folks.

This was a pleasant, safe, and low stress place to live 30 years ago.  Quality of life was high.  Not any longer. 

[Taran Wanderer]

It's mildly annoying when I have to stop for the school bus which is going the other way.  It makes the 2.5 mile commute take 5 minutes instead of 4.5.

I'm kidding, of course, about being annoyed.  I really don't miss suburb and city commuting.

[seattlecyclone]

The car-oriented low-density suburban design can work, but it has its limits. You've built up your city with everything so spread out that a car is the only reasonable form of transportation. When every house has a half acre of land to itself, the number of buildings that can be reached without hopping in a car is necessarily very limited. The zoning segregates work areas and housing, which makes the average trip even longer.

You'd better be strict about rules requiring each house having a certain amount of land to itself, because once the population density reaches a certain point, the roads fill up. You can add lanes to freeways here or there, but this really only pushes the problem around a bit, delaying the inevitable gridlock. Here's where the real problem starts. You've designed your transportation network around personal automobiles being the one-size-fits-all transportation solution, your population is too high for that to be a viable option anymore, and yet there's a long way to go before you have a high enough population density to support a transit network robust enough that anyone would choose to use it if they own a car.

This, in a nutshell, is why no amount of money could cause me to take a job in Silicon Valley.