Author Topic: NYS low income Internet back in play  (Read 33179 times)

jim555

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NYS low income Internet back in play
« on: April 28, 2024, 03:59:13 AM »
NYS $15 25Mbps/$20 200Mbps Internet law back due to a decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-to-require-internet-providers-to-charge-low-income-residents-15-for-broadband/5358042/

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/04/court-upholds-new-york-law-that-says-isps-must-offer-15-broadband/

When the law originally passed it was paused in the courts due to ISPs challenging it. Now it can again move forward.

"April 16, 2021 Press Release...

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today signed legislation establishing the first-in-the-nation requirement for affordable internet for qualifying low-income families, as proposed in the 2021 State of the State. This legislation requires providers operating in New York State to offer $15/month high-speed internet to low-income families across the state. New Yorkers qualifying for this affordable internet program include households who are eligible or receiving free or reduced-price lunch, supplemental nutrition assistance program benefits, Medicaid benefits, the senior citizen or disability rent increase exemptions, or an affordability benefit from a utility.  "

Ron Scott

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2024, 05:05:02 AM »
This kind of government coercion leaves a bad taste in my mouth for 2 reasons. First, it puts private companies in the business of levying “taxes” as they see fit, since they will be raising rates on others to cover their revenue loss. The state politicians get to claim they provided more entitlements without raising taxes…which is an obnoxious form of bullshit they find cute.  Second, I’m sure poorer areas will get shafted on service and upgrades in the future since it will make no economic sense to invest more there. And new competitors won’t even service those areas.

All this sounds good, like you’re rooting for the underdog, until you think about how these things play out in real time.

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2024, 06:28:48 AM »
Cry me a river, Verizon made $33 billion for the quarter and has monopoly Internet pricing.  I guess that 6.7% dividend is too low for poor shareholders.

This is just in time since the Affordable Connectivity Program (ACP) is expiring next month.  Getting 300/300 Verizion FIOS right now with Fios Forward for $0 a month after the ACP.  My other costs are NYS Essential Plan $0 a month.  PSEGLI $12 a month (after household assistance rate), $0 Lifeline cell phone, at age 60 $23 SNAP benefit with income under $30K.  SNAP gets the phone, Internet, and electric at discount rates.

bacchi

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2024, 08:31:26 AM »
Cry me a river, Verizon made $33 billion for the quarter and has monopoly Internet pricing.  I guess that 6.7% dividend is too low for poor shareholders.

This is just in time since the Affordable Connectivity Program (ACP) is expiring next month.  Getting 300/300 Verizion FIOS right now with Fios Forward for $0 a month after the ACP.  My other costs are NYS Essential Plan $0 a month.  PSEGLI $12 a month (after household assistance rate), $0 Lifeline cell phone, at age 60 $23 SNAP benefit with income under $30K.  SNAP gets the phone, Internet, and electric at discount rates.

And we've had these types of programs for decades and the moral hazards haven't appeared (or they're so small that it's a waste of time worrying about them). They do what they're meant to do, which is to get services into the hands of those who need them.

Ron Scott

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2024, 08:49:52 AM »
Cry me a river, Verizon made $33 billion for the quarter and has monopoly Internet pricing.  I guess that 6.7% dividend is too low for poor shareholders.

Well I’m not crying for Verizon, but don’t be naive and think there’s a free lunch here. The money’s gonna come out of someone’s pocket.

You talk about dividends? Let’s say a few thousand people get an average of $100 less a year due to dividend freeze/reductions. Feels like an mindless tax to me, buried in politician bullshit about “holding the line on taxes”.

If the state wants to give more entitlements based on income, be honest about it and pay for it with taxes. At least with a tax increase there’s some thought about who should pay. When you smack businesses around like this, the issue of who pays is hidden from public oversight. I guess you can fool some of the people all of the time. Not my cup.

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2024, 03:03:12 PM »
ISP groups renew ACP push as New York mandates $15 broadband

With a federal appeals court upholding New York's affordable broadband law, industry groups are urging Congress to 'maintain support for low-income Americans on a nationwide basis.'

April 29, 2024

https://www.lightreading.com/broadband/isp-groups-renew-acp-push-as-new-york-mandates-15-broadband
--------------------------------
Other states may start to regulate in this area after this ruling.

FireLane

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2024, 09:14:53 AM »
NYS $15 25Mbps/$20 200Mbps Internet law back due to a decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-to-require-internet-providers-to-charge-low-income-residents-15-for-broadband/5358042/

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/04/court-upholds-new-york-law-that-says-isps-must-offer-15-broadband/

When the law originally passed it was paused in the courts due to ISPs challenging it. Now it can again move forward.

Thanks for the tip. I looked up this law, but it's unclear to me who qualifies for it. Maybe that clarity is coming now that the courts have upheld it.

I doubt I would be eligible, since my wife is still working, but I have some older relatives on fixed incomes who are paying outrageous prices for home internet/TV service.

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2024, 12:24:35 PM »
NYS $15 25Mbps/$20 200Mbps Internet law back due to a decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-to-require-internet-providers-to-charge-low-income-residents-15-for-broadband/5358042/

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/04/court-upholds-new-york-law-that-says-isps-must-offer-15-broadband/

When the law originally passed it was paused in the courts due to ISPs challenging it. Now it can again move forward.

Thanks for the tip. I looked up this law, but it's unclear to me who qualifies for it. Maybe that clarity is coming now that the courts have upheld it.

I doubt I would be eligible, since my wife is still working, but I have some older relatives on fixed incomes who are paying outrageous prices for home internet/TV service.
This press release was made when it was passed.  The original has since been removed so I had to use the archive site.
https://archive.is/X2uJs

"New Yorkers qualifying for this affordable internet program include households who are eligible or receiving free or reduced-price lunch, supplemental nutrition assistance program benefits, Medicaid benefits, the senior citizen or disability rent increase exemptions, or an affordability benefit from a utility."

Mariposa

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2024, 12:28:35 PM »
The entire NYC public school system qualifies for free lunch. Does that mean we would qualify for this even if our income is >$200k?

bacchi

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2024, 02:15:35 PM »
The entire NYC public school system qualifies for free lunch. Does that mean we would qualify for this even if our income is >$200k?

Probably not. The federal NSLP lunches cut off at 185% of the FPL. It looks like Universal Free Meals is a state program.

Quote from: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nyed.463483/gov.uscourts.nyed.463483.1.3.pdf
whose household: (a) is eligible for free or reduced-priced lunch through the National School Lunch Program;
(bolded)

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2024, 02:35:52 PM »
Other levels are Medicaid is 138% FPL ($20,782 house of 1), SNAP is 130% FPL ($19,578 house of 1), SNAP 60 or older is 200% FPL ($30,120 house of 1).  NSLP lunches are 185% FPL ($27,861 house of 1).

Mariposa

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2024, 07:42:27 PM »
The entire NYC public school system qualifies for free lunch. Does that mean we would qualify for this even if our income is >$200k?

Probably not. The federal NSLP lunches cut off at 185% of the FPL. It looks like Universal Free Meals is a state program.

Quote from: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nyed.463483/gov.uscourts.nyed.463483.1.3.pdf
whose household: (a) is eligible for free or reduced-priced lunch through the National School Lunch Program;
(bolded)

Thanks for the clarification.


jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2024, 04:37:17 AM »
Looks like this law will become effective, the Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/12/big-loss-for-isps-as-supreme-court-wont-hear-challenge-to-15-broadband-law/

Missy B

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2025, 02:39:08 PM »
Telcos in Canada were forced to do this decades ago when phone lines were recognized as an essential service; it didn't stop them from making money hand over fist.
Internet is now what the phone used to be. It is essential to function. You can't find or apply for a job without benefits. Getting information and accessing programs - already there or getting there. Banking. Educating yourself on a vast number of topics. Connecting with people and organizations that can help you.

As for my getting less dividends, i think the difference is going to be very small.

Forcing our very large, wealthy infrastructure providers to have an accessible option to people with proven need is cheap way to help people who are struggling leverage their resources and level up.
It doesn't serve me as a relatively comfortable middle class person to have increasingly frustrated, exhausted and desperate people in my orbit who would be less frustrated and beat up if they had affordable, reliable internet access that would help them access jobs, programs and other resources online. For many, that initial internet help will mean they disqualify themselves from cheap internet much faster.

Gaurdians and traders. when the gaurdians step in, the traders whine.

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2025, 10:34:45 AM »
"The New York law requiring Internet providers to offer cheap plans to people with low incomes will take effect on Wednesday this week following a multi-year court battle in which the state defeated broadband industry lobby groups."

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/01/new-york-starts-enforcing-15-broadband-law-that-isps-tried-to-kill/

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2025, 06:30:06 AM »
Looks like it has started, press release...

"Under the ABA, qualifying New York households can access high-speed internet at two price points:

    $15 per month for speeds of at least 25 megabits per second
    $20 per month for high-speed service of at least 200 megabits per second

These discounted rates are permanent, though providers may adjust prices once every five years. Any price increase must be announced 30 days in advance to customers and regulators, and are limited to the lesser of either the most recent consumer price index change or a maximum of two percent per year.

New Yorkers can qualify for these low-income broadband plans if they participate in any of the following programs:

    Free or reduced-priced lunch through the National School Lunch Program
    Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program
    Medicaid
    Senior citizen rent increase exemption
    Disability rent increase exemption
    Affordability benefit from a utility"

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-major-digital-access-initiatives-launch-affordable-broadband-act-and

FireLane

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2025, 01:08:33 PM »
According to this story on Ars Technica, the $15 broadband law is in effect, but ISPs are trying to pretend it doesn't exist and/or claiming people aren't eligible for reasons that aren't permitted by the law:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/01/isp-failed-to-comply-with-new-yorks-15-broadband-law-until-ars-got-involved/

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2025, 08:18:53 AM »
According to this story on Ars Technica, the $15 broadband law is in effect, but ISPs are trying to pretend it doesn't exist and/or claiming people aren't eligible for reasons that aren't permitted by the law:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/01/isp-failed-to-comply-with-new-yorks-15-broadband-law-until-ars-got-involved/
Verizon says let us transfer to the right group, then it hangs up.  The chat says it can only be done with a phone call.  Time to file a complaint, $1K fine for each complaint in the law.

uniwelder

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2025, 08:37:40 AM »
I'm not in New York, but lost cost internet is available where I live.  Comcast Xfinity has a $15 plan that we qualify for and have been using.  https://www.xfinity.com/learn/internet-service/internet-essentials  I don't know if its difficult to apply for, since we had carried over from the Affordable Connectivity Program.  Rather than cancel the service, they renamed it without the government subsidy. 

Most people where I am (poor rural Appalachia) like to complain about not affording internet, but they all seem to opt for the expensive plans, rather than the basic service, or apply for the $15 one.  I'd be curious to know how difficult it is to apply for now and whether we'd still get it if it hadn't been for the fact we'd been rolled over automatically into it.

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2025, 09:33:00 AM »
I finally got through after an hour and a half to a Supervisor, they will drop my bill to $20. 

FIREin2018

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2025, 06:53:03 AM »
Cry me a river, Verizon made $33 billion for the quarter and has monopoly Internet pricing.  I guess that 6.7% dividend is too low for poor shareholders.

This is just in time since the Affordable Connectivity Program (ACP) is expiring next month.  Getting 300/300 Verizion FIOS right now with Fios Forward for $0 a month after the ACP.  My other costs are NYS Essential Plan $0 a month.  PSEGLI $12 a month (after household assistance rate), $0 Lifeline cell phone, at age 60 $23 SNAP benefit with income under $30K.  SNAP gets the phone, Internet, and electric at discount rates.
My retired mom lives in nyc.
She's paying $300/month for fios home and cell phone.
How can she do what you're doing?

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2025, 06:25:28 PM »
Cry me a river, Verizon made $33 billion for the quarter and has monopoly Internet pricing.  I guess that 6.7% dividend is too low for poor shareholders.

This is just in time since the Affordable Connectivity Program (ACP) is expiring next month.  Getting 300/300 Verizion FIOS right now with Fios Forward for $0 a month after the ACP.  My other costs are NYS Essential Plan $0 a month.  PSEGLI $12 a month (after household assistance rate), $0 Lifeline cell phone, at age 60 $23 SNAP benefit with income under $30K.  SNAP gets the phone, Internet, and electric at discount rates.
My retired mom lives in nyc.
She's paying $300/month for fios home and cell phone.
How can she do what you're doing?
If she can get Medicaid or SNAP that will qualify for the Internet discount and the Lifeline cell phone.  She may also qualify for a lower electric rate.

moustachebar

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2025, 07:03:02 AM »
I was looking into this, since our ISP keeps raising rates post contract (though not giving us the speeds associated with higher rates).

Internet essentials wants proof in the form of a letter that you are eligible for free lunch.

School districts with free lunch for all students won't process a school lunch form/ provide a letter. Is there another way without signing up for an additional program I don't need?

jim555

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Re: NYS low income Internet back in play
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2025, 11:52:30 AM »
I was looking into this, since our ISP keeps raising rates post contract (though not giving us the speeds associated with higher rates).

Internet essentials wants proof in the form of a letter that you are eligible for free lunch.

School districts with free lunch for all students won't process a school lunch form/ provide a letter. Is there another way without signing up for an additional program I don't need?
The ISP has to give you the discount if you are in any of the programs listed in the law, not just school lunch. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!