Author Topic: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?  (Read 11668 times)

Rollin

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Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« on: February 19, 2016, 12:07:19 PM »
I'm pretty committed to being FIRE come 8/1/2016.  In fact I was going to be FI and RE back when I was 47 (I think I'm 55 now), but got married and committed to more years (added a few expenses with a DW and 3 kiddies).  More recently I was going to go October 2015, which was my 21 year anniversary with the company.  However, we got a new head guy in June and I didn't want to leave him stranded, as I was interim for 4.5 years and knew the job well among other reasons.  It was my choice not to apply for the top job as I knew I was going to RE. I also needed a few more $$ just to make me feel more confident that my calculations were correct (mainly expenses) so I wanted to stay into 2016 a ways.

So, I really like the new guy and feel he's going to take my leaving hard. I think we've become good friends and I feel for his situation.  Our smallish staff has changed so much recently, with three top retirements, and another leaving for a new job (all unrelated to the new guy).  He does not expect me to retire, although he worries that another firm wants to hire me away (they tried, I told them no, and let him know about it).

So, I'm having a hard time breaking the news to him, but as each week goes by there is more and more that he is depending on me for. I feel like I am deceiving him when I don't speak up.  I really want to see him and the organization succeed, but I just can't bring myself to stay much longer, even though it is a great job with good $$/benefits.  I almost committed to asking for a 3 month sabbatical and then return with a shorter work week (30 hours/week), but I just couldn't bear the thought that I'd have to come back after 3 months (this time is for a long bicycle ride and I do not want a schedule or daily goal of mileage). I think that it would bother me regularly that my freedom to do as I please from 8/1 on would be tainted.

So, how did you break the news?  Was your situation similiar?  Any advice or insights?

Gone Fishing

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2016, 12:26:25 PM »
Depends on the industry and company culture.  I'm to the point were I am scheduling meetings and discussing what I am going to do on projects past my FIRE date which makes me pretty uncomfortable .  I like my boss and our busy season is coming up, but sadly, I do not feel like I can give notice yet. Bonuses are to be paid next month and I could honestly see someone finding some technicality to reduce or eliminate my bonus if I give notice now.  Others who have resigned have been asked to pack their stuff and been escorted out.  So hush is the word until the bonus cash hits the account.  If your company is anything like this, I'd wait.  If not, I'd say give them all the notice possible.     

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2016, 03:26:41 PM »
So Close:

Sounds like a similar situation, except for there bonus. I do want to give as much notice as possible.  That way I can start the hiring process to replace "me" and likely have someone that I can get in and train a little before I leave. I can also agree to a list of priorities to accomplish before I leave.  I think that will help the organization out (and the new guy).

Funny how there are always little financial events that make me want to delay the announcement, such as your bonus.  For me I'd like to get my taxes done, but there are no other financial items upcoming that I'm aware of. One of the reasons I wanted to delay to 2016 was another payment from my employer into my HSA, as well as more years/points for my pension.

DoofusOfErasmus

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2016, 03:46:20 PM »
Rollin: I'm with So Close.  It sounds like you have a great working relationship with your manager, which is wonderful - we should all be so lucky.  But the bottom line is that you're working for a company that most likely follows employment-at-will, so just as they can let you go at any time, so can you walk away when you damn well please, correct?  Besides the 40 hours per week that they pay you for, you don't owe them anything.  If your boss had built this company from the ground up, then maybe consider returning after a sabbatical to help the guy out.  Otherwise, do what is in your best interests, which sounds like keeping your plans to yourself, collecting your bonus, going forward with FIRE, enjoying your time off without the constraints of a forced schedule, and never looking back!

Every time I hear people with dilemmas like this, I want to ask them, "What if the shoe was on the other foot?"  Suppose the higher-ups decided it was in the company's best interest to let you go.  Would any of them care for a second about how that might affect your plans?  Would they check with you first to find out how best to proceed?  Would they wring their hands and fret over how this news would impact you?  Of course not.  They would make a decision based on THEIR best interests and carry it out without hesitation.  You should do the same.  And don't feel the least bit guilty about it. 

My eyes were opened a couple of years ago when I was almost terminated after ten years at my previous company.  I had consistently done good work and was the most knowledgeable and experienced member of our team.  I won't go into the details, but our CEO suddenly wanted to fire me for cause for a completely bogus reason.  Fortunately, my supervisor defended me and I was given a final, written warning instead.  It turned out to be a moot point as my group was in the process of being outsourced and I accepted an offer from my current employer shortly thereafter.  But the fact that they were ready to let me go for no good reason after a decade of service was all the proof I needed that when it comes to a corporate office, loyalty is not a virtue.  Look out for yourself first and foremost.  You've already given them 21 years.  You don't owe them anything else.

livingthedream

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2016, 04:33:53 PM »
I gave ample 1.5 months notice and offered to do thorough transition with my replacement. I also offered to be flexible on my departure date if needed. Worked out well. I think it's best to just be honest.

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2016, 05:08:24 PM »
Although I've yet to reach the level of FI to RE I've taken two shorter retirements now. I gave the first company two months notice and the second one 6 weeks. In both cases they were very happy to have extra notice and I didn't have any problems. I was financially prepared to be shown the door but they both asked me to stay longer if possible. My wife and I are probably both leaving our respective jobs in May. This time we told them as soon as it looked likely (4 months out). It felt a little awkward because the community is tiny, and most coworkers are also friends, but everyone seems pretty understanding.

Where are you planning your bike trip? That's what I did after my last departure. My wife has sold me on a long walk this time...

I'm to the point were I am scheduling meetings and discussing what I am going to do on projects past my FIRE date which makes me pretty uncomfortable.
That sounds a bit rough. You're probably wise to wait before telling anyone, but I'm sure it would bother me as well.

Exflyboy

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2016, 05:28:14 PM »
Just tell him what your plans are.. this is not rocket science.. Just tell him!

Today...

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2016, 05:48:10 PM »
Rollin: I'm with So Close.  It sounds like you have a great working relationship with your manager, which is wonderful - we should all be so lucky.  But the bottom line is that you're working for a company that most likely follows employment-at-will, so just as they can let you go at any time, so can you walk away when you damn well please, correct?  Besides the 40 hours per week that they pay you for, you don't owe them anything.  If your boss had built this company from the ground up, then maybe consider returning after a sabbatical to help the guy out.  Otherwise, do what is in your best interests, which sounds like keeping your plans to yourself, collecting your bonus, going forward with FIRE, enjoying your time off without the constraints of a forced schedule, and never looking back!

Every time I hear people with dilemmas like this, I want to ask them, "What if the shoe was on the other foot?"  Suppose the higher-ups decided it was in the company's best interest to let you go.  Would any of them care for a second about how that might affect your plans?  Would they check with you first to find out how best to proceed?  Would they wring their hands and fret over how this news would impact you?  Of course not.  They would make a decision based on THEIR best interests and carry it out without hesitation.  You should do the same.  And don't feel the least bit guilty about it. 

My eyes were opened a couple of years ago when I was almost terminated after ten years at my previous company.  I had consistently done good work and was the most knowledgeable and experienced member of our team.  I won't go into the details, but our CEO suddenly wanted to fire me for cause for a completely bogus reason.  Fortunately, my supervisor defended me and I was given a final, written warning instead.  It turned out to be a moot point as my group was in the process of being outsourced and I accepted an offer from my current employer shortly thereafter.  But the fact that they were ready to let me go for no good reason after a decade of service was all the proof I needed that when it comes to a corporate office, loyalty is not a virtue.  Look out for yourself first and foremost.  You've already given them 21 years.  You don't owe them anything else.


That's not good!  !0 years is a long time and that must have taken a lot for you to adjust to the potential for pulling the rug out from under you.  My job is political and we can be criticized (politically and from the public) from so many angles.  At the same time if I had anyone (including my boss) get unreasonable with me and my job they'd feel a lot of heat, as I have a reputation for being honest, hard working, and trustworthy.  The politics though are one of the reasons I'm happy to retire.  No more BS from all the unhappy people that LOVE to criticize and complain (and often do the expedient thing or be selfish).  After 30 years (9 at my previous job) I have gotten very good at dealing with it, but it does wear on you after awhile.

I gave ample 1.5 months notice and offered to do thorough transition with my replacement. I also offered to be flexible on my departure date if needed. Worked out well. I think it's best to just be honest.

Mine would be about a 5 month notice, and I do plan on leaving in late July/early August, which is our slowest time of the year.  Your last statement is best though.  That's why I am so uncomfortable now because I feel I am not being honest by not telling him.  He's planning on upping my pension credits soon too and I don't want him to do that for me if I'm leaving, as this is not an easy step to take.

Just tell him what your plans are.. this is not rocket science.. Just tell him!

Today...

Ahhhhhh!  That is scary, but you are right and I really need to do this sooner rather than later.  I think that would be the respectful thing to do, not stay longer out of respect.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2016, 05:58:04 PM »

Where are you planning your bike trip? That's what I did after my last departure. My wife has sold me on a long walk this time...


I just abandoned a trip up the Sierra-Cascades route of the Adventure Cycling Association due to the heavy snow in the higher elevations.  Was worried that I couldn't get through.  I was going at the end of April, after a week in the desert near Joshua Tree (saving on airfare by just eating from there).  Longish story, but I has a FIRE date of April to do this.

Now I'm looking to leave from the Pacific in Oregon and head across the TransAmerica trail over to the Bitterroot  Mountains (Montana) to do some hiking with my cousin.  After that I'd like to keep heading east and catch onto another route, possibly the Lewis and Clark, then down the Underground Railroad.  Ultimately, riding to the Atlantic and then back to the Gulf of Mexico home.  I have wanted to cross the country by bicycle since I was about 10 or 12.  I'm not fully committed to that yet, but I know once I get the "announcement" for FIRE out of the way I can put more mental energy into it.

I have the bike I want and recently rode it across Florida.  I just want to enjoy the ride, and again, not have any deadlines that stress me while I am experiencing all that space and time.

What did you do? Where did you go?  Where are you going?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 05:59:53 PM by Rollin »

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2016, 05:59:24 PM »
Exactly! I got the big puppy eyes and the "I can't believe your leaving" crap... for like 2 minutes when he realised that was going nowhere.

I mean WTF?... is his business going to implode?... Tell him now so he can look for a replacement and have a nice long handover.

Even if his business WAS going to explode this means he simply didn't staff the place properly in the first place.

It is what it is.. your a cog in the wheel.. find a new freaking cog!

Its 5pm Friday.. call your boss now.

DoofusOfErasmus

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2016, 06:17:37 PM »

Where are you planning your bike trip? That's what I did after my last departure. My wife has sold me on a long walk this time...


I just abandoned a trip up the Sierra-Cascades route of the Adventure Cycling Association due to the heavy snow in the higher elevations.  Was worried that I couldn't get through.  I was going at the end of April, after a week in the desert near Joshua Tree (saving on airfare by just eating from there).  Longish story, but I has a FIRE date of April to do this.

Now I'm looking to leave from the Pacific in Oregon and head across the TransAmerica trail over to the Bitterroot  Mountains (Montana) to do some hiking with my cousin.  After that I'd like to keep heading east and catch onto another route, possibly the Lewis and Clark, then down the Underground Railroad.  Ultimately, riding to the Atlantic and then back to the Gulf of Mexico home.  I have wanted to cross the country by bicycle since I was about 10 or 12.  I'm not fully committed to that yet, but I know once I get the "announcement" for FIRE out of the way I can put more mental energy into it.

I have the bike I want and recently rode it across Florida.  I just want to enjoy the ride, and again, not have any deadlines that stress me while I am experiencing all that space and time.

What did you do? Where did you go?  Where are you going?

That sounds awesome!  Maybe I'll add a cross-country bike ride to my bucket list.  Do you stay in hotels along the way or camp out?  Or a combination of both?

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2016, 06:18:38 PM »
Exactly! I got the big puppy eyes and the "I can't believe your leaving" crap... for like 2 minutes when he realised that was going nowhere.

I mean WTF?... is his business going to implode?... Tell him now so he can look for a replacement and have a nice long handover.

Even if his business WAS going to explode this means he simply didn't staff the place properly in the first place.

It is what it is.. your a cog in the wheel.. find a new freaking cog!

Its 5pm Friday.. call your boss now.

I agree with you!  (except the call right now :).  I may schedule it for next week though. 

mandy_2002

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2016, 07:08:03 PM »
Depends on the industry and company culture.  I'm to the point were I am scheduling meetings and discussing what I am going to do on projects past my FIRE date which makes me pretty uncomfortable .  I like my boss and our busy season is coming up, but sadly, I do not feel like I can give notice yet. Bonuses are to be paid next month and I could honestly see someone finding some technicality to reduce or eliminate my bonus if I give notice now.  Others who have resigned have been asked to pack their stuff and been escorted out.  So hush is the word until the bonus cash hits the account.  If your company is anything like this, I'd wait.  If not, I'd say give them all the notice possible.   

I feel like we may be twins (or at least working for the same company). The only difference is that I do not like my leader. He is the type of person who should not be the leader of people who can think for themselves (he once asked me what I thought of our conversation, and after about 3 minutes I realized he just wanted me to reply back to him what he just said, word for word). If this year's bonus time line is the same as last year, I'll be giving about 5 weeks notice.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 10:45:29 AM by mandy_2002 »

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2016, 02:51:06 AM »

I just abandoned a trip up the Sierra-Cascades route of the Adventure Cycling Association due to the heavy snow in the higher elevations.  Was worried that I couldn't get through.  I was going at the end of April, after a week in the desert near Joshua Tree (saving on airfare by just eating from there).  Longish story, but I has a FIRE date of April to do this.

Now I'm looking to leave from the Pacific in Oregon and head across the TransAmerica trail over to the Bitterroot  Mountains (Montana) to do some hiking with my cousin.  After that I'd like to keep heading east and catch onto another route, possibly the Lewis and Clark, then down the Underground Railroad.  Ultimately, riding to the Atlantic and then back to the Gulf of Mexico home.  I have wanted to cross the country by bicycle since I was about 10 or 12.  I'm not fully committed to that yet, but I know once I get the "announcement" for FIRE out of the way I can put more mental energy into it.

I have the bike I want and recently rode it across Florida.  I just want to enjoy the ride, and again, not have any deadlines that stress me while I am experiencing all that space and time.

What did you do? Where did you go?  Where are you going?

That sounds awesome. I'd like to do a cross country bike trip, I think i might still be a few years. A couple summers ago I made an 800 mile "proof of concept" bike tour around the state of Alaska. It was pretty awesome and I learned a lot. Next time I'll probably select a bit more for comfort over speed but also bring less stuff.

We're in the planning stage of doing walking Camino de Santiago this summer. Then I'm hoping to do a circuit around Mt. Blanc after we finish.

jim555

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2016, 05:54:48 AM »
Why give any notice at all?  Just announce and leave the same day.  How much notice do companies give when they fire someone, none.  It is corporate brainwashing that wants you to believe that you owe them notice.  Unless you need a reference for another job I don't see the point.

Zamboni

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2016, 06:12:45 AM »
It's your call, but given your age I would give him some notice but not 6 months (2 months, tops.) You could drop hints like "what would you do if I got hit by a bus?Someone else needs to be trained to do this" but that's not the same as announcing a date.

People seem to react better to long notices on leaving when the person leaving is older . . . like normal retirement age. For anyone younger than that, you run the risk that the person will view your FIRE as a personal insult to their ideas about how long people should work. Also, unfortunately people you think are great people can really turn on you once they decide that you are being disloyal by leaving their company. The worst case I saw was a married couple of coworkers in their 40's who kindly gave a YEAR notice of their FIRE. They had essential positions and losing them both instantly at the same time would have been a problem, so they didn't get walked out early. But, while some people were happy for them, many more were pissed, and I would say some folks did their best to make their last year of work as miserable as possible. I'm certain they both regret giving the extra notice.

Just this past year I had a co-worker announce in January that it was her last year and she would be retiring in December. Like you, she was hoping to ease the transition by training her replacement in her last few months. Where I work things get scheduled pretty far out in advance (as far out as 1-2 years), so she wanted to be a nice person and help with that planning. I certainly appreciated her not leaving unexpectedly since that work might have gotten dropped in my lap, but it ended up backfiring on her. They got her replacement hired in the spring, and as soon as they had a replacement lined up they told her that May 31st would be her last day. Summary: the company kept her less than half of the time that she was planning for the transition.
Lesson: don't tell him until you are in a position for it to be your last day . . . which might already be the case for you, but make sure your finances are ready for this outcome.

Also, I twice given 2 months notice for a transition from different jobs. One time it was fine, but the other time (just like lhamo) it ended up causing me a ridiculous amount of work. Both times I thought my boss was kind and reasonable. . . a friend, really . . . so you just never know who it will go.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2016, 06:25:52 AM »
Why give any notice at all?  Just announce and leave the same day.  How much notice do companies give when they fire someone, none.  It is corporate brainwashing that wants you to believe that you owe them notice.  Unless you need a reference for another job I don't see the point.
Because it's a dick move and runs against the societal expectation? Unless OP's company has a history of firing people on the spot with no severance pay whatsoever, there is no need to be a dick.

jim555

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2016, 06:44:17 AM »
Why give any notice at all?  Just announce and leave the same day.  How much notice do companies give when they fire someone, none.  It is corporate brainwashing that wants you to believe that you owe them notice.  Unless you need a reference for another job I don't see the point.
Because it's a dick move and runs against the societal expectation? Unless OP's company has a history of firing people on the spot with no severance pay whatsoever, there is no need to be a dick.
"societal expectation" = brainwashed corporate drone. 
I guess my experiences with corporations have left me jaded.

ender

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2016, 07:07:23 AM »
One thing that is helpful to realize is that no matter how important you think you are, it's probably a lot more important than how important you actually are.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2016, 07:15:49 AM »
Why give any notice at all?  Just announce and leave the same day.  How much notice do companies give when they fire someone, none.  It is corporate brainwashing that wants you to believe that you owe them notice.  Unless you need a reference for another job I don't see the point.
Because it's a dick move and runs against the societal expectation? Unless OP's company has a history of firing people on the spot with no severance pay whatsoever, there is no need to be a dick.
"societal expectation" = brainwashed corporate drone. 
I guess my experiences with corporations have left me jaded.
I believe it goes both ways.

If an office mate of 10 years gets dragged into a room and given a cardboard box and two weeks pay, 2 weeks is all they should get.
If they fired the same office mate on the spot in front of the whole company, quitting in similar fashion is justified.

But that doesn't sound like OP's company. He's worked there for 21 years, has a high level whose job it is to look out for company direction months in advance. He is smitten with the rest of management. And he is at an age where retirement, while certainly early, wouldn't be earth shattering news.

Unless he has reasons to believe that they would cut ties prematurely as soon as he indicates intention to leave (some industries have no choice but to behave that way), the reasonable thing to say would be something along the lines of:

"Hey boss, just so you know, I am planning to leaving in about 6 months to pursue some projects of mine outside of traditional employment. You should probably start thinking about how to handle the transition. Let me know if I can help."

It's not a question of what you owe them.

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2016, 07:18:49 AM »
I was (and still am) very good friends with my boss. I let him know during my review.
"What are your goals for next year?"
"My goal is to retire next year. How much notice do you want?"
"6 months."

And I gave him 6 months notice to hire and train someone. Of course, companies are terrible at following through. He wanted someone in quickly and it ended up taking them 5 months to hire someone due to slow moving upper management and a low number of qualified applicants.

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2016, 11:29:32 AM »
For me it has always depended on the employer. I've never worked in corporate America so my MO may not apply to your situation. I work in non-profit and education and my focus has always been on mitigating the impact on the people I serve. In general, I've collaborated with my supervisor to transition in a way that worked for me and the clients/students. That said, I'm always very mindful of the employer and don't put myself in harm's way (there are many dysfunctional non-profits out there). At the worst one, I got my ducks in a row and only then gave the required two-weeks notice. I got things in as good shape as I could for my replacement and very happily left.

One last note: having had some close calls in my life, I know that crazy stuff happens and, therefore, have made sure to stay organized and document my job so that, if someone had to come in due to an emergency, they'd be able to keep things moving. This approach has the added benefit of me knowing that the person who comes in after me (whenever that may be) will have the information to get up and running as well as succeed. In other words, it has freed me from the worry about leaving the people I serve (and co-workers) in the lurch.

Hope this POV helps a bit. Best of luck!

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2016, 11:32:36 AM »
I would wait until I was comfortable with walking away that day if need be, then give some extra notice: 1-6 months depending on the job, corporate culture.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2016, 01:45:12 PM »
Why give any notice at all?  Just announce and leave the same day.  How much notice do companies give when they fire someone, none.  It is corporate brainwashing that wants you to believe that you owe them notice.  Unless you need a reference for another job I don't see the point.
Because it's a dick move and runs against the societal expectation? Unless OP's company has a history of firing people on the spot with no severance pay whatsoever, there is no need to be a dick.
"societal expectation" = brainwashed corporate drone. 
I guess my experiences with corporations have left me jaded.
I believe it goes both ways.

If an office mate of 10 years gets dragged into a room and given a cardboard box and two weeks pay, 2 weeks is all they should get.
If they fired the same office mate on the spot in front of the whole company, quitting in similar fashion is justified.

But that doesn't sound like OP's company. He's worked there for 21 years, has a high level whose job it is to look out for company direction months in advance. He is smitten with the rest of management. And he is at an age where retirement, while certainly early, wouldn't be earth shattering news.

Unless he has reasons to believe that they would cut ties prematurely as soon as he indicates intention to leave (some industries have no choice but to behave that way), the reasonable thing to say would be something along the lines of:

"Hey boss, just so you know, I am planning to leaving in about 6 months to pursue some projects of mine outside of traditional employment. You should probably start thinking about how to handle the transition. Let me know if I can help."

It's not a question of what you owe them.

Paul der Krake

You summed up my situation pretty well.  I can add to this in response to your post and to a few others that there are 3other people retiring and they told him 3 months in advance (gone in March), 10 months in advance (may), and the last one about 1.5 years in advance (she hasn't gone yet, so probably 2018). They are all of retirement age, unlike me, but they have not been asked to leave.

In addition, I may want to do a little consulting in the future (same profession) and will not burn any bridges.  Even if I wasn't, I have many friends who are in the business and will be spending time with them in the future.  I don't want to be looked at as a bone head/selfish person.

I also like the way you stated the leaving, somewhat matter of fact, but not cold.  I may practice that one.  I would start with "hey, you know every _____ in our profession, I bet you could whip out that Rolodex (uh, smartphone to many of you :) and call up anyone you want to fill my high level position - and pay them 20% less than me!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 01:57:09 PM by Rollin »

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2016, 01:47:08 PM »
Why give any notice at all?  Just announce and leave the same day.  How much notice do companies give when they fire someone, none.  It is corporate brainwashing that wants you to believe that you owe them notice.  Unless you need a reference for another job I don't see the point.

Although I am an "at will" employee (he can fire me tomorrow) he'd have some heck to explain why.  I've built some very good relationships over the past 30 years.  Also, I'd never do that.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2016, 01:48:18 PM »
One thing that is helpful to realize is that no matter how important you think you are, it's probably a lot more important than how important you actually are.

This is funny, and so true.  i need to be reminded of it now and then.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2016, 01:54:10 PM »
I was (and still am) very good friends with my boss. I let him know during my review.
"What are your goals for next year?"
"My goal is to retire next year. How much notice do you want?"
"6 months."

And I gave him 6 months notice to hire and train someone. Of course, companies are terrible at following through. He wanted someone in quickly and it ended up taking them 5 months to hire someone due to slow moving upper management and a low number of qualified applicants.

I'm waiting for him to ask me outright, because I cannot lie and would just tell him right there.  I recently had to recuse myself from a consultant selection process because one the of firms submitting tried to hire me away (and still does), but I told the boss that I said no.  He was puzzled by my recusing myself since I wasn't interested, but he didn't know that I have another agreement to consult much later.  He's a sharp guy and knows something just doesn't fit.

We are looking at a new office location too, and it would require me to drive quite a ways as opposed to riding my bicycle to work every day (no bike to the new location, unless I have a death wish).  He was worried that I'd jump ship if he went to the new location and I said "don't worry about me, make the decision to the best interest of all."  Again, I think he picked up on something odd.  (I probably wouldn't try to sway the decision to suit me personally anyway).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 01:57:58 PM by Rollin »

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2016, 01:55:55 PM »
For me it has always depended on the employer. I've never worked in corporate America so my MO may not apply to your situation. I work in non-profit and education and my focus has always been on mitigating the impact on the people I serve. In general, I've collaborated with my supervisor to transition in a way that worked for me and the clients/students. That said, I'm always very mindful of the employer and don't put myself in harm's way (there are many dysfunctional non-profits out there). At the worst one, I got my ducks in a row and only then gave the required two-weeks notice. I got things in as good shape as I could for my replacement and very happily left.

One last note: having had some close calls in my life, I know that crazy stuff happens and, therefore, have made sure to stay organized and document my job so that, if someone had to come in due to an emergency, they'd be able to keep things moving. This approach has the added benefit of me knowing that the person who comes in after me (whenever that may be) will have the information to get up and running as well as succeed. In other words, it has freed me from the worry about leaving the people I serve (and co-workers) in the lurch.

Hope this POV helps a bit. Best of luck!

Yes, and a sensible approach.

dogboyslim

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2016, 05:27:55 PM »
A guy at my company was quitting and offered a month notice to make it easier on the boss and to leave on good terms.  This would have put his leave date just into December, covering his health ins.  His alternate plans didn't pick up health insurance until the next year.

His boss immediately took him off all projects and assigned only documentation work.  On Nov 30th he was told he wasn't needed anymore, but would get salary for the extra day and was walked out.  New insurance plan wouldn't go into force without continuous coverage due to some PEC, so it cost him like $2,000 for Cobra coverage for the month (could be exaggerated but he was POd).

Moral: don't tell your boss you are leaving unless you are prepared to leave that day.

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2016, 07:12:59 PM »
I was (and still am) very good friends with my boss. I let him know during my review.
"What are your goals for next year?"
"My goal is to retire next year. How much notice do you want?"
"6 months."

And I gave him 6 months notice to hire and train someone. Of course, companies are terrible at following through. He wanted someone in quickly and it ended up taking them 5 months to hire someone due to slow moving upper management and a low number of qualified applicants.
I used to have to move every two years with DH (Navy). Once we got orders with lots of notice, so I gave my then boss 3 months notice, figuring he would get my replacement and we'd have time for turnover. Three months pass, no replacement, and on my last day he mutters something about my leaving them in the lurch. I just laughed and said, "Like 3 months ago?" I fully expect the same to happen at my current job when I give them a few months notice. I'm thinking 2 months is plenty.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2016, 05:19:37 AM »
I was (and still am) very good friends with my boss. I let him know during my review.
"What are your goals for next year?"
"My goal is to retire next year. How much notice do you want?"
"6 months."

And I gave him 6 months notice to hire and train someone. Of course, companies are terrible at following through. He wanted someone in quickly and it ended up taking them 5 months to hire someone due to slow moving upper management and a low number of qualified applicants.
I used to have to move every two years with DH (Navy). Once we got orders with lots of notice, so I gave my then boss 3 months notice, figuring he would get my replacement and we'd have time for turnover. Three months pass, no replacement, and on my last day he mutters something about my leaving them in the lurch. I just laughed and said, "Like 3 months ago?" I fully expect the same to happen at my current job when I give them a few months notice. I'm thinking 2 months is plenty.

That is funny (the leaving them in the lurch comment)!  I'm thinking the more time the btter, with 3 months being minimum, because I can get the replacement person in (it is my job to do the hiring).

Fishindude

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2016, 05:26:17 AM »
Everyone hates to lose a good employee.
I've had a few great employees switch careers and / or retire on me.  The best scenarios were when they gave lots of advance notice, helped you work with them on an exit strategy, and also helped put a replacement individual in place.

If you really like the guy, sooner you let him know what's going on, the better.

Basenji

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2016, 06:41:37 AM »
I used to have to move every two years with DH (Navy). Once we got orders with lots of notice, so I gave my then boss 3 months notice, figuring he would get my replacement and we'd have time for turnover. Three months pass, no replacement, and on my last day he mutters something about my leaving them in the lurch. I just laughed and said, "Like 3 months ago?" I fully expect the same to happen at my current job when I give them a few months notice. I'm thinking 2 months is plenty.

That is funny (the leaving them in the lurch comment)!  I'm thinking the more time the btter, with 3 months being minimum, because I can get the replacement person in (it is my job to do the hiring).
Well then, I agree, with a motivated hiring person, give them 3 months.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2016, 05:15:24 PM »
Everyone hates to lose a good employee.
I've had a few great employees switch careers and / or retire on me.  The best scenarios were when they gave lots of advance notice, helped you work with them on an exit strategy, and also helped put a replacement individual in place.

If you really like the guy, sooner you let him know what's going on, the better.

I like the way you put that.  Also, I read some of the opposite suggestions and feel that if I had a poor situation at work (i.e., they are bad corporation/employers) I think I'd still give a decent notice (not as much as my current situation though), but only after I was prepared to leave - have my ducks lined up in a row.  I think the world is a better place when at least one of the parties is honorable.  One is sometimes surprised by the good response to good and honest behavior.

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2016, 06:15:33 PM »
I had a great situation at work, but as soon as I told my boss I was leaving, he tried to drop me from salary to hourly (a big pay drop) and our formerly awesome relationship was on the skids. I basically told him that he had to keep me on salary or else I would leave completely, and he couldn't afford to have that happen, but it soured our relationship. Even if you think things are great, wait until you know you can leave that day and be A-okay.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2016, 06:19:23 PM »
I had a great situation at work, but as soon as I told my boss I was leaving, he tried to drop me from salary to hourly (a big pay drop) and our formerly awesome relationship was on the skids. I basically told him that he had to keep me on salary or else I would leave completely, and he couldn't afford to have that happen, but it soured our relationship. Even if you think things are great, wait until you know you can leave that day and be A-okay.

Yes, these types of things can test a relationship and you'll find out what people are made of.  My kids will lend a few bucks to a friend only to get the run around on payback and I think that was a cheap way to find out what you are dealing with.

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2016, 08:31:08 PM »
So... Have you told him yet?..:)

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2016, 04:49:11 AM »
So... Have you told him yet?..:)

Not quite yet.  If I was more the rabbit as opposed to the turtle maybe :)

Dicey

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2016, 09:45:10 AM »
I read this thread without comment and came back to see more of the feedback. I just re-read your first post and I believe you already have your answer. After years of preparation,, you were planning on RE-ing on Oct. 15, but decided to wait so as not to make his transition even more difficult. Now you feel he's over the hump and it's time for you to execute your own well-laid plans. Ask how you can work together to make your departure as painless for him as possible.

Not sure why you've chosen 8/1/2016 as your next target exit date. Don't broach the subject for another couple of months if you must stay until then. If that date's flexible, tell him as soon as walking out the same day (worst case) won't hurt you. Somehow, I feel that if you let him figure it on his own, you will have less ability to manage the situation positively. Keep the reins firmly in your own hands until you're ready for your final dismount. And of course, please keep us posted.  (Okay, no more horsing around ;-)

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2016, 12:11:00 PM »
I read this thread without comment and came back to see more of the feedback. I just re-read your first post and I believe you already have your answer. After years of preparation,, you were planning on RE-ing on Oct. 15, but decided to wait so as not to make his transition even more difficult. Now you feel he's over the hump and it's time for you to execute your own well-laid plans. Ask how you can work together to make your departure as painless for him as possible.

Not sure why you've chosen 8/1/2016 as your next target exit date. Don't broach the subject for another couple of months if you must stay until then. If that date's flexible, tell him as soon as walking out the same day (worst case) won't hurt you. Somehow, I feel that if you let him figure it on his own, you will have less ability to manage the situation positively. Keep the reins firmly in your own hands until you're ready for your final dismount. And of course, please keep us posted.  (Okay, no more horsing around ;-)

Very good, and talking some sense into me.  I have to keep my hands on the reins you are right and I needed that reminding.  In other words, I cannot give all control away.  Of course, I will be respectful and helpful, but do not want to compromise my position (and familiy) in case something were to go wrong (i.e., if I were to expose too much information or announce too early).

opnfld

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2016, 02:11:44 PM »
I agree with Diane C and would add...

As much as possible, determine in advance what conditions you are and are not willing to consider.  I have a good relationship with my supervisor.  We function, in many ways, as peers.  I told her in confidence my plans to relocate during the summer.  Now we are discussing what sort of remote work will be feasible before running that up the chain. At the time I was rattled by the market declines and seeking flexibility.   But having the conversation turned remote-work into a reality when really I just want out.  Had I completely realized that before the convo, instead of testing the waters, I might have postponed until 2-months out. 

Ultimately, i think there is no real downside to waiting as long as possible until your plans are certain at which point giving notice is just a necessary step in the process.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2016, 02:45:59 PM »
I agree with Diane C and would add...

As much as possible, determine in advance what conditions you are and are not willing to consider.  I have a good relationship with my supervisor.  We function, in many ways, as peers.  I told her in confidence my plans to relocate during the summer.  Now we are discussing what sort of remote work will be feasible before running that up the chain. At the time I was rattled by the market declines and seeking flexibility.   But having the conversation turned remote-work into a reality when really I just want out.  Had I completely realized that before the convo, instead of testing the waters, I might have postponed until 2-months out. 

Ultimately, i think there is no real downside to waiting as long as possible until your plans are certain at which point giving notice is just a necessary step in the process.

Thanks opnfld - A few months ago I considered taking a 3 month sabbatical (1.5 weeks in the desert of So Cal and then the rest bicycle riding north to British Columbia), and return to work 30 hours per week.  This was after thinking that I'd "negotiate" my way through the way I was feeling about making/taking that final no return step to retirement, that is telling the boss.  You know, delay it a little until I'm safe-"er" financially, ego-wise, etc.  However, I put myself into that scenario, tried it on for a bit.  My conclusion was that the time away would be great, but not AWESOME!  I want the option to just keep going on my bike, or to head straight home (cut the trip short), or maybe hike for a few weeks, and just to be free to move about the country (as SW airlines says).  I don't want to come back to work, even if it is for 30 hours per week.  I don't want to have that kind of schedule darn it!

Dicey

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2016, 04:07:38 PM »
This was after thinking that I'd "negotiate" my way through the way I was feeling about making/taking that final no return step to retirement, that is telling the boss.  You know, delay it a little until I'm safe-"er" financially, ego-wise, etc.  However, I put myself into that scenario, tried it on for a bit.  My conclusion was that the time away would be great, but not AWESOME!  I want the option to just keep going on my bike, or to head straight home (cut the trip short), or maybe hike for a few weeks, and just to be free to move about the country (as SW airlines says).  I don't want to come back to work, even if it is for 30 hours per week.  I don't want to have that kind of schedule darn it!
Rollin, I know just how you feel, and I assure you I was always that way, especially when traveling. I had a clock ticking backward in my head, dreading the knowledge that the trip was going to end and then I'd be back to work. I assure you, it is worth every sacrifice strategy it took to get to FIRE. And now I love Sunday afternoons, and Mondays too. The rest of the days are pretty awesome as well.

What you are about to do is so big, it's worth getting right, but it's also just plain worth getting to. I hope you find your happy jumping off point soon.

Rollin

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2016, 05:15:15 AM »
This was after thinking that I'd "negotiate" my way through the way I was feeling about making/taking that final no return step to retirement, that is telling the boss.  You know, delay it a little until I'm safe-"er" financially, ego-wise, etc.  However, I put myself into that scenario, tried it on for a bit.  My conclusion was that the time away would be great, but not AWESOME!  I want the option to just keep going on my bike, or to head straight home (cut the trip short), or maybe hike for a few weeks, and just to be free to move about the country (as SW airlines says).  I don't want to come back to work, even if it is for 30 hours per week.  I don't want to have that kind of schedule darn it!
Rollin, I know just how you feel, and I assure you I was always that way, especially when traveling. I had a clock ticking backward in my head, dreading the knowledge that the trip was going to end and then I'd be back to work. I assure you, it is worth every sacrifice strategy it took to get to FIRE. And now I love Sunday afternoons, and Mondays too. The rest of the days are pretty awesome as well.

What you are about to do is so big, it's worth getting right, but it's also just plain worth getting to. I hope you find your happy jumping off point soon.

You are very kind DianeC and I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences.  Yes, this is a big thing and I really don't have many on my end that understand that, so it is great to have this community and people like you!

RedmondStash

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Re: Good relationship with my boss. How did you announce FIREing?
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2016, 09:35:32 AM »
You've already got a lot of great advice here, but I'll add this: How you leave a job depends on the company culture, your relationship with your manager, your manager's personality, etc. I've given notice 4-5 weeks ahead of leaving a job and had it go swimmingly, and I've given 3 weeks' notice in order to help finish up a big project for my team that was due in 3 weeks, and been summarily dismissed that day.

(And that job where it went swimmingly? I was burned out and planning to just take 6 months off from working. I had people ask me what I was going to do next, and I smiled and said, "Absolutely nothing." And they looked at me with envy and said, "That sounds wonderful!" I worried that they'd judge me, but instead, it felt pretty great.)

It sounds like there's precedent to expect no punitive action for your giving long notice, given what you've said about coworkers doing so.

My advice is to wait until the day when if giving notice means they fire you, you'll be fine financially. If that day is today, and you believe you'll have a positive reception, then sure, tell your boss now, if you're ready.

The boss I have now? I would tell him pretty much immediately as soon as I set my FIRE date; I have every confidence he would take the news well and treat me fairly.

It speaks well for your character that you want to give as much notice as possible, partly to help your boss and your company, and partly for your own sense of ethics. It's really hard balancing an ethical impulse against self-preservation sometimes.

So -- you need to find the balance between doing what protects you financially, but *also* protects your sense of integrity and ethics, so you can feel good about how you conducted yourself. At the same time, temper that with the realization that everyone really is expendable, and the world will keep spinning without you in that job.

Good luck.