Long Angle HNW Forum

[MustacheAndaHalf]

@seattlecyclone Thanks for creating this thread, which lead me to joining Long Angle. 

In my years on MMM I never explored hedge funds on my own.  On Long Angle, a group of investors seek out, question, and invest together - all optional, there's no pressure to join.  But I find group due diligence better and easier than what I could do on my own, which is why I've put 1/7th of my NW in those deals.  Here's the sample deal summary they show on the Long Angle website:
https://longangle.com/index.html#dealflow

I got permission from the people who run Long Angle to share two details of the most recent Venture Capital deal I invested in:

Performance fee varies from 10% to 30% depending on performance
Returns of 25%/year or greater for roughly 5 years.

"25%/year or greater" meaning a range was provided and I only asked permission to share the lower end of the range: the "or greater" is my wording, not anyone else's.  Note if you run the math, 25%/year for 5 years triples an investment, so calling this a 3x or greater return would also be fair.

Hedge funds charge 20% of performance, but this one charges a sliding scale from 10-30%.  If they underperform, they get underpaid.  I like the incentives to be aligned like this, with additional incentive for additional performance.  As an added bonus, weak performers would rather be paid the standard 20% than risk taking only 10%, so adopting this approach is too risky for them.

As others might be guessing, U.S. law limits who can invest in hedge funds.  I think that's part of why Long Angle limits members to those with 2.2M+ (which I'm assuming goes up with inflation).  I showed a page of my Vanguard statement - without even the account number, just name, address and account value.  When I asked, I was told the information is shredded after being checked.

Finally, Long Angle is where I found out about Self Directed IRAs (SDIRA).  After reading a detailed, dry book on SDIRAs and what can go wrong, I opened one.  So money went from my Vanguard Roth IRA into a company that handles self-directed IRAs, then into the deal, and finally sent to the hedge fund.  Considering how complicated that sounds, it was far more smooth than I thought possible.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

I've invested in hedge fund deals on Long Angle, and will be tracking those against the S&P 500.  I'm very curious to see if I beat the hedge fund average, and the S&P 500 in particular.

But I'm posting because I think I've figured out why Long Angle requires 2.2M in net worth to join: the SEC.  The SEC requires investors who join deals as a group, like Long Angle does, have "qualified client" net worth, which is 2.2M million according to this SEC link:
https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/2021/ia-5904-fact-sheet.pdf

[Bateaux]

I checked out the website.  I don't think this is for me.  We qualify based on assets but I'm not sure we fit the culture.
I'll stick to MMM for now.

[FireLane]

I saw an ad for Long Angle on social media, and I was mildly curious. I wondered if it had been discussed on MMM already. I see it has.

I can't decide if I want to join. I'm not crazy about the requirement that you participate using your real name. Also, in general, I want to spend less time on the internet rather than more, and I feel like this forum already satisfies my desire to discuss financial and economic subjects with smart people.

[Dicey]

I've seen it mentioned here and there since this last post. If we bump it a few times, I'm sure you'll get responses from people who have first-hand experience.

[ROF Expat]

Perhaps @MustacheAndaHalf who joined up a few years ago will have an opinion. 

I have no interest in that sort of thing.  Years ago, I asked my father, who is a very sophisticated (and successful) investor if he would teach me his investing strategies.  He said that he would, but he also pointed out that he was retired (he retired at 50, which was very unusual in the early 1980s), had plenty of time to spend on his portfolio, and enjoyed it.  He openly said that I would be better off if I ignored the markets, consistently invested in index funds, and focused on getting promoted at my day job.  I have to say that he was about 100% correct (and I have told him that). 

YMMV, of course.  I'm curious to hear about Mustache-1/2's experience myself. 

[GilesMM]

$2 million is quite a low stretch for HNW in the sense it should make any difference when it comes to investing or anything else financial. VTI/VTSAX and chill works as well for 8 figures as it does for 6. Unless you have billions like Buffet and make special deals, it doesn’t matter. You don’t need an advisor, don’t need a hedge fund, should not be in private equity, are not an Angel, and need no special arrangements or treatment to protect and grow your assets. 


These people are cleverly scraping the net for unwitting customers who think there must be some magic. They will monetize you, at a minimum, and possibly lead you astray as well. I can’t imagine sharing my email and financials with random internet people.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Long Angle is a high net worth community, where the investments are optional.

The "real name" requirement bugged me before I joined, but might be a factor in keeping conversations more civil.

The $2.2 million net worth requirement is per the SEC.  Per Long Angle's FAQ: "Additionally, we confirm that all members are either Qualified Clients or Qualified Purchasers, possessing $2.2M+ or $5M+ in investable assets, respectively."
https://www.longangle.com/faq

Long Angle offers more than hedge fund investments, but that has been my focus.  I assume their filtering and use of area experts is much better than I could do alone.  I looked up past performance of venture capital and private equity, and believe it can outperform the market.  But the fees are often high (2% per year, 20% of profits), so I expect skepticism and a difference of opinion there.  Until funds distribute their gains to me, years from now, I won't know if I beat the market or not.  (For me personally, I wanted to shift the burden for beating the market to someone else, after 2020-2022).

There are various non-investment topics on Long Angle, although I limit which ones I subscribe.

I disagree that Long Angle is "scraping the net for unwitting customers".  They apply no pressure to invest in hedge funds - that was my decision.  Most people use hedge funds for diversification, and not to beat the market like I'm trying to do.  The co-founders often invest in the hedge funds alongside everyone else.  The Q&A with hedge fund GPs are far more valuable than the questions I would ask on my own.  But again, people can join for the community, and never make a single investment.

[BicycleB]

If I had the requisite net worth, I'd join.

The community sounds informative and relatively civil, which to me puts it in the same category as Investor Alley here, but with additional experience, perspectives and available options.

[ROF Expat]

Long Angle is a high net worth community, where the investments are optional.

The "real name" requirement bugged me before I joined, but might be a factor in keeping conversations more civil.

The $2.2 million net worth requirement is per the SEC.  Per Long Angle's FAQ: "Additionally, we confirm that all members are either Qualified Clients or Qualified Purchasers, possessing $2.2M+ or $5M+ in investable assets, respectively."
https://www.longangle.com/faq

Long Angle offers more than hedge fund investments, but that has been my focus.  I assume their filtering and use of area experts is much better than I could do alone.  I looked up past performance of venture capital and private equity, and believe it can outperform the market.  But the fees are often high (2% per year, 20% of profits), so I expect skepticism and a difference of opinion there.  Until funds distribute their gains to me, years from now, I won't know if I beat the market or not.  (For me personally, I wanted to shift the burden for beating the market to someone else, after 2020-2022).

There are various non-investment topics on Long Angle, although I limit which ones I subscribe.

I disagree that Long Angle is "scraping the net for unwitting customers".  They apply no pressure to invest in hedge funds - that was my decision.  Most people use hedge funds for diversification, and not to beat the market like I'm trying to do.  The co-founders often invest in the hedge funds alongside everyone else.  The Q&A with hedge fund GPs are far more valuable than the questions I would ask on my own.  But again, people can join for the community, and never make a single investment.

Thanks!  This is exactly the kind of first-hand information I was hoping to get. 

[seattlecyclone]

I started this thread. I'm still a member on there. I haven't joined any of their investment vehicles so far and there is no pressure to do so beyond the occasional "hey we're investing in this thing, check out the materials if you're interested" post on the forum. I'm mostly there for the online discussions. That part is totally free. Those in the under-$5 million net worth category (myself included) seem to be a minority. It's interesting to see discussions about things folks in the $5-20 million category tend to worry about; you don't see that so much elsewhere. They also organize a number of in-person social gatherings in larger cities if you're into that sort of thing, plus an annual retreat at some fancy-pants resort somewhere. I haven't yet made it out to one of the local Seattle dinners but might check one out sometime.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

I'm the opposite of seattlecyclone - most of my net worth is in hedge funds invested through Long Angle.  On two occasions where I will not give details, they charged me less than I expected.  I believe those running Long Angle ("managing directors" Tad, Sriram, Matt) are paying some of the website staff from their own pockets.  Others do work related to investments, and are probably paid from fees in investments.
https://www.longangle.com/about

I've gone to one of the dinners, and enjoyed it.  I don't recall money being one of the topics, perhaps surprisingly.  At the end of the dinner, the group had accidentally not ordered enough to meet the private room minimum, and we had to add on wine and deserts to make up for it.

Can others see the following report?  On page 28, if I divide the percent of membership by the range, there is greater concentration (% per $1M) in the $5M to $10M range.  And greater concentration below $5M than above $10M.
https://www.longangle.com/download-benchmark-report-1

[BicycleB]

I'm the opposite of seattlecyclone - most of my net worth is in hedge funds invested through Long Angle.  On two occasions where I will not give details, they charged me less than I expected.  I believe those running Long Angle ("managing directors" Tad, Sriram, Matt) are paying some of the website staff from their own pockets.  Others do work related to investments, and are probably paid from fees in investments.
https://www.longangle.com/about

I've gone to one of the dinners, and enjoyed it.  I don't recall money being one of the topics, perhaps surprisingly.  At the end of the dinner, the group had accidentally not ordered enough to meet the private room minimum, and we had to add on wine and deserts to make up for it.

Can others see the following report?  On page 28, if I divide the percent of membership by the range, there is greater concentration (% per $1M) in the $5M to $10M range.  And greater concentration below $5M than above $10M.
https://www.longangle.com/download-benchmark-report-1

At first the report link displays a landing page that describes Long Angle. However, that page does have a link that opens up the benchmark report.

[Ron Scott]

Thanks.

I checked bogleheads back in 2014 - part of what put me off is just how the forum is organized and the software. And it seemed more geared to amassing as much $$ as possible, versus getting enough.  Maybe I would feel different now.

I went to a few local Choose FI meetups too, and they also seemed to be striving for infinite $$, so not my vibe (I am sure it varies a lot by the local group)

I think Bogleheads is probably the best site out there for exploring retirement financing and general investing for those who aren’t in the business of trying to beat the market. The fact that index investing beats most other approaches in the long term makes this attractive to them.

Regarding the amount of wealth they have on average or aspire to…like, so what…they’re just people.

Some people don’t like to hear others with aspirational goals of accumulating significant wealth. If that bothers you for some reason Bogleheads probably will too. But if you can handle all types, it’s an amazing resource for personal finance.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

I recently invested in Anthropic through Long Angle.  There's a lack of diversification, but the fees are better: if the investment triples, the performance fee is $0.  As the stock goes from tripling to quadrupling, there is a "catch up" fee paying 10% of profits.  So I get 3x if it triples, but 3.7x if it quadruples (100% investment + 300% gains, 30% fee and I get 270%, total 3.7x).

If your income or NW meets "accredited investor" status, you can buy private shares of Anthropic through places like Forge Global, instead.  "The Forge transaction fee for direct secondaries is typically 2-4%."  The price of shares were also inflated when I checked a few weeks ago, which is why I favored Long Angle's investment.  Right now, though, Forge Global might be the better deal, since the price/share is that of the latest offering - without a markup.
https://forgeglobal.com/faqs/#:~:text=ongoing%20fees

I already have the investment size I want in Anthropic, so I'm not buying more.  And I don't have experience with Forge Global, so I'm relying on comments from others saying they are a big player in secondaries markets (vs public markets) and trustworthy.