Is Retirement worth it?

[spartana]

[WOW!! You totally nailed it and put it in great perspective. I'm really glad there are therapists out there like you who can actually understand and be supportive of that mindset. Back when I was hitting the bottom of my spiral I went to a therapist and he was so sexist and so deeply lacked understanding and I found myself so hopeless for the future I sat inside my dark closet weeping uncontrolaby with a gun to my head. Then I put it down, packed a backpack, quit my job, left my military spouse,  who I hadn't seen in 11 months and who was the reason I got out and took a civilian job for,  and hoped on a flight and started my FIRE journey. Within a week I was almost 100% back to normal and feeling great. 

So yeah, retirement was worth it even if my FIRE was earlier and more accidental then planned. Of course no one talks about how a job or a lifestyle can cause depression and how being FI and RE might be the fix.

Although that pesky The Ring girl followed me out and that's why I really don't have a TV or a phone ;-).

Yeah...most of my clients have had some pretty bad experiences with therapists, that's usually how they end up with me in the first place. And vets who've had bad experiences? It's kind of a miracle that they ever try again.

I've always loved working with vets, it's the only population whose humour is as dark as mine, and appreciates profanity as much as I do.

I only went once and it was a civilian (non-Vet)  therapist at the VA. His advice was basicly give up your own dreams and goal (they weren't important), follow the always gone spouse to where ever he gets transfered to and get a part time job at Dairy Queen. UGH.

ETA: While it's pretty uncomfortable and embarrassing to talk about this stuff. My crazy years of extreme jealousy of my spouse's job, my extreme feelings of blandness at my own job, the loneliness of the military spouse life (tougher more devoted and under recognized group of people I have never met)  and my especially extreme risk - taking and physical activities) aren't the norm that most retirees who miss their jobs feel.  I think this is probably what the OPs article was trying to alluding too but it really isn't the same thing. Finding satisfaction in life - whether thru a fun or meaningful job or family or hobbies or all of it - isn't dependant on keeping a career you loved. From my experience most people find new and enjoyablable things to enrich their lives once the retire and dontbfall into depression or go crazy extremes. Except maybe Sky high. Who was so successful at FIRE it ruined his life ;-).

[Metalcat]

] Thanks @mistymoney . Fortunately it was long ago and fairly short lived - although I was really unhappy for about 5 years after I got out of the service due to the many reasons already cited even though I had a civilian job I really liked. It was just a slow spiral down until the last year before I FIREd.  It was less about getting out of the service when I didn't really want too then, and more about my expectations of life after I got out and the DH deciding not to retire early out of the service himself when he would hit 38 and could retire. We had planned to each retire at 38 before we married (at the old age of 23) and him changing his mind a couple of years before that threw me for a loop badly. I was only 36 then and had so many plans for my (our) FIRE lives and to see them kind of crumble was hard - especially when I had given up something I loved so we could FIRE together. But he loved what he did so I don't blame him. FIRE for me as a single person has been great (although I'm now with another FIREee I'm totally crazy about) and so it all worked out great in the end.

But I do agree that the older you are the harder it might be to retire happily if you are so embedded in your job and the shared social circle that job provides. FIREing in my 30s meant I had a lot of opportunities to connect with tons of people and was healthy, fit and young and unemcumbered enough to do most things (even dreaded type 3 fun!). I think a normal age retiree, unless they have a lot of connections and activities already in progress, or are extroverts who don't shy away from social things, it could be challenging. Enjoying your own company helps a lot too. I spend a lot of time alone and find that to be really fun.

I come from a family where pretty much everyone is an extrovert and very adept at building community. The seniors in my family have no problem adjusting to leaving communities and starting new ones, so they adjust pretty well to just about anything.

People really underestimate the impact of community on their well being.

Working with people who've had their careers taken away by disability, who are living in chronic pain, and who struggle to connect with people because of that are a prime example. These folks come to me with unsolvable, brutal problems, and honestly, the main thing I do for them that actually helps is teach them how to make friends and build community.

I mean, first they have to go through the enormous grieving process, but I move them pretty quickly into building skills for connection because my entire life I've seen how powerful that is for quality of life under any circumstances.

It's more complicated than "make friends and you'll be happy." Often I have to drudge through some pretty gnarly emotional baggage to get people to a place where they are able to have healthy bonds, but really healthy bonds are pretty crucial to human well being. 

And those bonds require the right kind of challenges.

That's the most fun part, is figuring out what kind of challenges any given individual needs to engage in, especially with sick/disabled folks who have a lot of limitations.

When I moved to remote, rural, incredibly insular Newfoundland where people from off the island are famously never accepted as locals, I worked tirelessly to find my entry point into the community. That was incredibly challenging in a very outdoorsy community while on crutches. But I found a local woman, around my age, normally very able-bodied, but temporarily also on crutches, and somehow convinced her that we should try and build a table together...despite neither of us having any wood working skills.

Two little blond crippled girls on crutches with no fucking clue what they're doing, running around the local hardware store on several trips trying to figure out building a table is the stuff of local legend in a tiny rural community, and I'm now after just 3 summers there, I'm fully integrated and considered a local.

The table turned out...okay, lol.

[spartana]

^^^ That table might end up being a unigue one-of-kind handcrafted show piece worth millions someday! Or something to burn in the fireplace on a cold Newfie winter night ;-).

I know I get a bit peeved at the "if you retire you'll be miserable and die early" articles that have been floating around the last 20 plus years but I actually think they are worthwhile to think about at an individual level. Until you do it (retire - whether early or late or trad age) it's hard to know how you might react to it after a few years. I just hate how those articles lump everyone together regardless of their circumstances and skew the data one way (retirement = earlier death) without taking other factors into account. I've been retired a milluon years now and have been pretty damn blissfully happy during that time. And last I checked I'm not dead either ;-).

[Ron Scott]

Greetings-

I work in the field of aging and can say by far those best off well in their eighties are those very engaged in a wide variety of activities from board membership, volunteering and continued paid working.  What's to be said about focusing on retiring and then seeing decline?  I can share my father retired at 55 and it was not good for his marriage ( my parents divorced) and he was not engaged....

Here's a blog from 'Blue Zones' about this... https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20241028/dan-buettner-retirement-might-not-be-that-good-of-an-idea

Even if one is 'financially free' doesn't it stand that work derives meaning and purpose and saving money can always go towards charities/causes?

I think your personal experience is more valuable than advice on a forum like this.

Most of us need to find our way in a world that is defined by numerous life options and abundance. From the perspective of those who lived in pre-industrial times, we are spoiled. But we see it from the perspective of our own times, and still need to make a good life for ourselves. I see this trend continuing as relevant technology develops exponentially right in front of our eyes.

I worked 50-60 hour weeks for decades and found work to be extremely rewarding and invigorating. It was ALWAYS challenging and gave me the opportunity to see what I could create and how far my skills would take me.

In retirement…it’s different. I no longer have the need or desire to further develop those skills and build more. That was a good life but it was also another life. Retirement is what you make of it yourself. It’s more personal that way.

I think running away from work or toward retirement, ala FIRE, can actually be a mistake for individuals who simply don’t like their current situation. Most would probably do better to simply find another job than stick it out until they “can” retire.

But to think retirement itself is some kind of heaven on earth misses the fact that you need to live it and make the most of that phase in life.

[deborah]

My mother is 94, living alone independently, still drives... She retired early. So did dad. He died at 92 and also retired early... They had a good marriage and had a lot of fun after they retired. This is lived experience too. Mum loves gardening and has the best garden in her street (probably her town). Both of them were happier after retirement than before.

[Lukim]

I think everyone is different and everyone's work and retirement experience will be different.

I did retire from a job that I was not enjoying (I was a part owner).  I was almost immediately offered a new job doing something quite different and without any of the administrative crap I had to endure previously (I just have to do what I am paid for and not worry about other stuff).

I have been financially independent for many years.  I am now in my mid 60s and still enjoy the job I am doing.

That said, I have a bucket list of non work things I want to do and I am not getting younger so I need to stop or slow down the work soon to get onto the bucket list.

[falling leaves]

I think everyone is different and everyone's work and retirement experience will be different.

I did retire from a job that I was not enjoying (I was a part owner).  I was almost immediately offered a new job doing something quite different and without any of the administrative crap I had to endure previously (I just have to do what I am paid for and not worry about other stuff).

I have been financially independent for many years.  I am now in my mid 60s and still enjoy the job I am doing.

That said, I have a bucket list of non work things I want to do and I am not getting younger so I need to stop or slow down the work soon to get onto the bucket list.

I'm in a similar situation and of a similar age. I can't be in 2 places at once and so I should do things on my bucket list. The only thing for me is that sometimes the bucket list things are a bit of a let down and I realize I was quite happy doing what I was doing before.

[Metalcat]

I think everyone is different and everyone's work and retirement experience will be different.

I did retire from a job that I was not enjoying (I was a part owner).  I was almost immediately offered a new job doing something quite different and without any of the administrative crap I had to endure previously (I just have to do what I am paid for and not worry about other stuff).

I have been financially independent for many years.  I am now in my mid 60s and still enjoy the job I am doing.

That said, I have a bucket list of non work things I want to do and I am not getting younger so I need to stop or slow down the work soon to get onto the bucket list.

It really is fundamentally different for everyone. Asking if retirement is "worth it" is a lot like asking if divorce is worth it, it depends on the marriage. The benefits of retirement depend on the job.

Retirement is always a good idea when the time comes that continuing to work limits your quality of life more than not working.

Everything in life is a trade off, everything. So every single life decision comes with sacrifices that have to be made. When you need money, the sacrifices to work are a great trade, when you don't need money, that's when they need to be examined more closely to see if continuing to work is still an optimal choice.

When you still need money, but have FU money, that's when it's important to examine exactly how you are working and if it's the best deal, because the world of work is enormous, with near infinite options. Every person has an infinitesimally small knowledge of what the world of work can be like. Individual knowledge of work is astoundingly limited, as are experiences of retirement. The possibilities are just too vast.

When I retired I couldn't do a bunch of "bucket list" things because I was pretty severely disabled and it was the pandemic.

Surprisingly, I also lost a lot of interest in a lot of bucket list things. It was kind of amazing how my concept of what I wanted to do with my time and energy changed so much once my free time wasn't just between work shifts. My entire relationship with time changed.

I ended up having plenty of adventures, lol, they just didn't look at all like what I expected them to. I had to be retired to figure out what my best life actually looked like in retirement.

I could have never, not in a million years, have guessed what my best life would end up looking like. But DH and I are both happier than we've ever been in our entire lives, living a radically different life than we previously envisioned.

Work and retirement are just far too broad as concepts. The terms are virtually meaningless when you factor in all of the vast and creative activities out there.

The question isn't really "should I retire?" but "is my current job really helping me optimize my life?" If not, it's actually really hard to know what your optimal life even looks like if you've never had the space to get to know yourself outside of your particular profession.

It's pretty simple. Is your life fucking awesome? If not, then do you have the wealth to change things? If yes, then do that. Maybe that means ticking items off your bucket list, or maybe it means doing shit you never even realized you would love.

[Idlewild]

Great post, @Metalcat

Also I think our Work Overlords have brainwashed us to look for our purpose, our calling, our community, our Everything in our job, which is why some people struggle to find meaning outside of work.

This video nails it, imo. "A lot of people have essentially turned to work to find the very things they used to seek from traditional religions: transcendence, meaning, community, self-actualization, a totalizing purpose in life. And so I think that in many ways, we have made our work our god." -Derek Thompson from The Atlantic

https://youtu.be/HAPQnCBnOLc?feature=shared

For me, retiring in my late 50s after a company downturn has been an opportunity to find out who I am, what my values are, what my purpose and calling are, without work.

[Metalcat]

Great post, @Metalcat

Also I think our Work Overlords have brainwashed us to look for our purpose, our calling, our community, our Everything in our job, which is why some people struggle to find meaning outside of work.

This video nails it, imo. "A lot of people have essentially turned to work to find the very things they used to seek from traditional religions: transcendence, meaning, community, self-actualization, a totalizing purpose in life. And so I think that in many ways, we have made our work our god." -Derek Thompson from The Atlantic

https://youtu.be/HAPQnCBnOLc?feature=shared

For me, retiring in my late 50s after a company downturn has been an opportunity to find out who I am, what my values are, what my purpose and calling are, without work.

I specifically work with people who feel they have lost meaning in their lives because they've had to leave work due to disability, and the programming to find meaning in paid work starts way, way earlier than once you start working for someone else.

I've always been self-employed and I had to work on deprogramming a lot of that nonsense myself. If you didn't enter the workforce with that programming already in place, you wouldn't tolerate it very well.

[Idlewild]

Fascinating, @Metalcat! That's why I love your posts so much. When do you think the programming starts? In grade school, early childhood? I find this subject fascinating.

[Metalcat]

Fascinating, @Metalcat! That's why I love your posts so much. When do you think the programming starts? In grade school, early childhood? I find this subject fascinating.

If a society overall has messaging that purpose equals paid work, then that programming is lifelong. Parents don't need to tell their kids this stuff, they will get it from existing.

I love my work, it ads a lot of value to my life, but my perspective on it is radically different from when I worked before, before I deconstructed so much of that messaging. I now see paid work the same way I see money overall, it's a tool for achieving a purposeful life, it has to serve my purpose, not the other way around.

My purpose is to be happy and healthy and to promote happiness and health in others. If "work" didn't help me live well, I wouldn't do it.

[Idlewild]

Awesome!

[Fru-Gal]

My entire relationship with time changed.

Love this. I’m still working on it in FIRE. I am a person with a million to-do lists loaded into my brain.

However, I was not brainwashed into work=purpose so that was an easy one for me (I was a very good worker, nonetheless).

Also reprogramming for abundance (just need to extend that abundance concept to time a bit more).

Funny example:

I was out paddling and passed some guys working on a dilapidated boat. They smiled and said “Beautiful day!”

I gestured out to the water and said “Yes, all this is mine.”

They didn’t respond at first, but then one of the guys said, “If that’s the case, I’m gonna need you to take care of a few things around here.”

I laughed and said, “oh, but that’s part of the charm!”

[mistymoney]

Great post, @Metalcat

Also I think our Work Overlords have brainwashed us to look for our purpose, our calling, our community, our Everything in our job, which is why some people struggle to find meaning outside of work.

This video nails it, imo. "A lot of people have essentially turned to work to find the very things they used to seek from traditional religions: transcendence, meaning, community, self-actualization, a totalizing purpose in life. And so I think that in many ways, we have made our work our god." -Derek Thompson from The Atlantic

https://youtu.be/HAPQnCBnOLc?feature=shared

For me, retiring in my late 50s after a company downturn has been an opportunity to find out who I am, what my values are, what my purpose and calling are, without work.

interesting video! thanks!